The next time you hear the word “locals”, tell yourself it actually means “PRs and citizens”.
Similarly, “foreigners” means “foreigners who are non-PRs”.
Locals aren’t all Singapore citizens, and foreigners don’t include PRs. Confusing?
In yet another good example of the locals-foreigners confusion, the Manpower Ministry has proclaimed in its Labour Market 2009 report that “there were 1,053,500 foreigners forming 35.2% of total employment in December 2009″ (italics are mine).
By “foreigners”, the ministry is of course referring to “foreigners who are non-PRs”. The foreigners who are PRs are not included in the 1,053,500 count. Instead, they are lumped together with citizens in the “locals” group. It’s only on page 57 of the report that you get a clear and unambiguous statement on this:
“a local (also known as resident) employee is any Singapore citizen or Permanent Resident who is employed…” (emphasis mine).
So exactly how many non-citizens are there in our workforce? I don’t know.
But to get an idea of how many non-citizens are in our workforce – i.e. foreigners who are not citizens regardless of whether they are PRs or not – we have to do some calculations. (Heck, are they testing our maths?)
According to that MOM report, there are 1,053,500 non-PR foreigners and 1,936,500 citizens+PRs in our workforce.
Next, according to Singstat, there are 533,200 PRs. Let’s conservatively estimate that 50% of these PRs are active in our workforce. We shall cross-check* this ratio shortly.
This means: out of the 1,936,500 “locals”, 266,600 are PRs.
1,936,500 – 266,600 = 1,669,900
So, our workforce consists of 1,669,900 citizens, 266,600 PRs and 1,053,500 non-PR foreigners.
Add up the latter two and we have 1,320,100 non-citizens.
This is a hefty 44% of our workforce of 2.99 million. Ta-da.
44% of our workforce are non-citizens!
* Let’s cross-check the 50% employment estimate with that of citizens: out of the 3.2m Singapore citizens, 1.6699m are in the workforce as calculated above. This is already 52%. If anything, we should use a higher estimate for PRs. Don’t tell me PRs have more dependents than citizens – if they do, we should question why we are granting PR status to so many economically inactive foreigners.
Do you feel there are more than 44% non-citizens around you at work?
106 Comments
Thanks for starting a topic to vent feelings of hatred against PRs and Foreginers .
It’s those who crafted the lax policies and those who laxly implemented the policies whom we should be venting our unhappiness against.
Nothing wrong with foreigners taking advantage of the situation. If Malaysia, Myammar, Australia, Hong Kong are economically strong and have such lax policies, I too would take full advantage of them if I can. Who doesn’t want to make more money and improve his life?
I support the PAP, but I do not want to give them the mandate to once again raise their own salaries and open the floodgates to let in foreigners depressing the salaries of mid to low workers. I would also like to see more transparency at all levels and across the board, and a less sycophantic parliament and mass media. Guess it is a hard decision for me at the ballot box.
What is the purpose of this analysis ?? Is it in anyway helpful for people who aim to increase their income. Or utilize their income in any useful way. From what I see, it highlights the fact that there are too many non-singaporeans working in Singapore. Is the Unemployment rate in SG too high. If it is around 2%, then the fraction of non-citizens should not matter, since there are enough jobs to accomodate all. So, I really dont see the usefulness of this analysis except to instigate further anger against the govt and more so against foreigners. Useless, Divisive Analysis.
Low Wages in Singapoe is very painful. However, I feel its not just the foreigners who lead to wage depression. Its competition against cheaper countries which offer similar jobs and services for less. A new phenomenon. Also, if the wages of Singaporeans is high, I feel a large number of you will simply migrate since opportunities in SG in education, univs, jobs are less. No wonder, despite a high GDP, salaries are so low. In my view, this is the way to make sure people stick to Singapore.
agree with dogg that this article serves no particular purpose, but its headline is indeed catchy and you will never find such headlines in the mainstream media.
and btw, i learn from this article that locals refer to both citizens and PRs. why the hell should the government group them together? the least they can do is to create a third category called PRs. all along i thought locals mean citizens! from now i’ll be more careful with what i read or hear.
Each time if I take the MRT during peak periods, there seem to be more than 50% of foreign workers in the compartment.
Been a PR myself I dun think this is something surprising. There is 5 Million population in sg and the EP/PR/”new Citizen” sum up almost to 2M.
Exclude the retired and under-age citizens, I would estimate the foreigner/citizen ratio in work force to around 1:1.
was it only in recent years that the ratio became 1:1? or was it all along like that?
Hi Ratt, I’m surprised you didn’t know locals comprise of PRs to make the unemployment figure artificially low and income high. Why don’t you visit http://www.temasekreview.com to know more about the harsh truths of Singapore?
does tht mean there are more non-citizen paying tax than singaporean?
I wonder if non-citizen actually contributes to the tax coffer more than citizen…
Then…. who is more deserving to stay?
Just taking a tangeant off the dead beaten thought…
maybe non-citizens contribute more. i think the govt should give them voting rights too. citizenship is overrated, just as family ties and blood relations are too. it’s all about running singapore as a business. just as the country is run like a business, we should learn from it and run our families like businesses too, sack your sons and daughters and hire foreign ones! and learn from jack neo, and buy an alphard!
non-sequitur: why not take it even further?
let’s make it a law that anyone who does not make enough to pay any taxes will be stripped of their citizenship.
that should include the old, sick, crippled and retards.
we can put them on a wooden boat and set them adrift.
but we can make an exception that slave laborers so that we stay competitive.
after all we must keep our GDP up right?
mandate: yes i agree.
why even bother giving anyone citizenship.
let’s just start giving out corporate membership for all rich and successful people.
the idea that singapore as a nation is a joke.
everyone should look out for no. 1.
oh comeon, dont bring in sarcasm. u singaporeans dont give a damn about anyone. u just want enough foreigners to do the dirty job, serve u, pay ur Mortgages, and not crowd the place. the moment it became bad, start whining. comeon, ur govt is now taking measures to correct the situation.
if u had to employ labor, u will urself employ cheaper maids n foreign labor. u wont care about the elderly. and the amount of support the govt gives is far more than what indian or chinese govts do. u want to reap the benefits of capitalism if u are well to do, else u want the safety net of socialism if u r a sore loser.
Dogg: we singaporeans?
thanks for so conveniently putting all of us into a single box.
either you are ignorant or a troll.
see? at least i gave you 2 choices.
either way i’m not interested.
have a good day.
middleclass:
u got 2 choices: SocialistWannabe or Frustrated
face it.. Singapore is heavily dependent on imports(locals/non-local/new citizens).. sports, construction & engineering, F&B and even entertainment (your tv/radio personalities).
good analysis tho, media & govt wouldnt dare to slap its sensitive pets with this blunt truth.
Middleclass, Singaporeans are already doing what you are describing. Parents suing their children for not providing for them is way up, and the statistics given by the government may very well be understated given how concerned the government is given all the campaingns, etc. I think what Dogg said isn’t unreasonable.
Ripping foreigners seem to be the local’s favorite occupation as several of my expat friends like to observe. So it’s only right that foreigners are now kicking the locals’ behind. An eye for an eye.
just as your wife has the right to divorce you if you are infidel, we have the right to let our unhappiness known in a national event in less than 12 months.
argue all you want about socialism vis-a-vis capitalism but we all know what constitutes the ultimate report card of the PAP government.
well, they can change the constitution to allow foreigners to vote. and this will be uniquely singapore again! first country in the world to give voting rights to foreigners! woo-hoo!
Stereotyping is a shortcut for bigots with simple minds.
I think people like MiddleClass are fighting for a Noble Cause: For A Little More Money 🙂 What Singaporeans are facing now is a common routine for most PRs who come from less privileged backgrounds. Crowd, Unemployment, etc.
I have been a student and seen elderly selling tissue papers in food courts. 90% of the time, I bght the tissue papers. And 80-90% of Singaporeans never did. Whats 2 dollars man. I think people who come from poorer backgrounds feel more sympathetic to the plight of the elderly than the slightly rich locals. Now, that they have issues, somehow they are using Elderly as a convenient pretext.
As human beings, when a poor migrant fights for 2000SGD, he is a non-entity and treated like crap. However, people with a better passport deserve medical, housing, education for kids, vacations, cars, etc etc. even if they are simple mediocre. Why not apply socialism to poor migrants. Or at least Humanity if not Socialism.
Thats why I do not buy the Singaporean Cause. They don’t care if they are rich. They whine when they are poor. Simple HUMAN Nature. Not a Great Cause to Fret aout.
Singaporeans, look to greener pastures! lol..
http://news.asiaone.com/News/the%2BStraits%2BTimes/Story/A1Story20100317-205040.html
antiMiddleClass: personal attacks, assumptions, presumptions, exaggerations, straw man arguments and illogical conclusions.
unfortunately your rant come across just as inane and spiteful as Dogg.
For a moment I thought Dogg had been decide to come up with another cute name like antiMiddleClass after realizing he’s a shameful bigot.
In any case good luck with your clueless hateful crusade against Singaporeans.
There are 2 sides to the argument. On 1 side are the beneficiaries of the policy, the other, the victims.
It’s a human nature to fight for what you have so that you do not lose it. For the foreigners/PRs, it’s the job/security in S’pore which can lead them to better live than in their hometown, for the local born S’poreans, it’s the advancement of the country to the level of say, Switzerland, HK, Japan.
Everybody seeks to progress, be it foreigners/PRs/Singaporeans. For foreigners/PR, you have already progressed in that you have gain globalisation or a secure job. However for Singaporeans, the country has been stagnant ever since the government made wrong policies in the past which resulted in the huge influx of foreign workers to reverse the result of those policies.
For pple like antiMiddleClass, you said you come from a poor family, thus coming here has already elevated your salary/standard of living, but for pple like the low income/average Singaporeans,they have served their 2.5 years of NS, + whatever reservist time, they still have to compete with pple who didn’t serve NS.
Actually, nobody is blaming the foreigners/PR for the predicament they are in. What their anger and fustration are focus on is actually the wrong policy of the government time and again yet they cover up their mistakes or simply shrug it off.
If pple are coming into the country to level a playing field, thats fine, like if you go into Australia, employers have to pay you a salary that commensurate with the locals, thats a level playing field. But thats not what is happening here, when foreigners come in, they are coming here to uneven the playing field, eg, asking for lower salary, ability to work weekends because they don’t have a family here which are all possible as they do not have to support their family in Costly Singapore. Singaporeans can’t afford that, we all want our parents to retire early, to enjoy their life and not to work til death like what the government is forcing them to so as to support some god forsaken GDP figures.
The ultimate mandate of a government is to advance the livelihood of ALL it’s citizen. Unlike now, where only the government and their lackeys can retire comfortably, have a blessed life etc. All the other pple, no matter what life they have, it’s none of their concern, as long as they maintain control over the country and the high GDP to support their salary increment.
Both side have their own cause in the argue, however, the ultimate cause of these are the wrong policies cause by the government. Without which these arguments wouldn’t even have existed and that is what Singaporeans are fighting against, that the government take responsibility for it
rightfully, this should never even have been an issue at all. it is so obvious that they have screwed up in a big way. next thing we know, our foreign friends here will suffer, but things will remain the same for citizens, and yet the government will laugh its way to the bank again with the raises in levies, COE and all the funny charges – given their excellent track record of using monetary incentives and disincentives to solve problems.
SG policies are really skewed towards non-citizen and I don’t think we could ever find another country that is so pro non-citizens.
Singapore has given so much opportunities and freedom to non-citizens that they are not only much better-off (in wealth, happiness, social-status) than in their native country and has enable them to rant relentlessly and ask for more than the citizens. This forum is already a very good example.
Singaporean always comes first? That’s a joke. Let’s welcome “Your Singapore”.
i give up on this singapore inc liao. waiting for the right time to migrate to OZ or NZ. i’ll sell my HDB for neat profit, cash out all my cpf and get my s out of here.
many people have done it and are happier.
Working here is getting tougher and harder, the pays get stagnant and cost is rising. The only way is either up or out … many try to go up but only a handful gets there , some gave up after yrs of traying and theya re out
seen some of my PR friends have moved either to US or Australia, Major reason to live a more meaning ful lifes there , and education for their kids are less stressful
Singaporeans always come first? Big joke….the policies echo STB’s “Your Singapore”.
I don’t think we can ever find another country which is as pro non-citizens. A nation that gives better opportunities and freedom for non-citizens (in wealth, happiness and social-status) compared to their native country at the expense of the citizens. Yet, still tolerant of non-citizens to rant and demand more over citizens, this forum is already a good example.
to solve this issue .. have more babies la
its a number game , target is 6 mil , piak more often la , call it national service :),
you want to own the cake and eat it ..ha ha .. you have to pay for it ..simple right.. who pay ? if wanr gov pay means every one pay lo
At the moment most of the chio bus i know are interested in better quality of life ,dun wan to marry unless many hamdsome young warren buffet, some marry if the guy have this and that but after marry only want 1 or 2 only so that the expenses can be manage for a car, yearly migration to timbucktoo or the latest coolest gadget iphone 10.5GS… COE ,NATAS or IT fair ..record number right .. so how?
it is normal for a develop countries to import not-so-talent, it happening in japan, US, UK blah blah
i talk too much .. jialat back to work before my master ask me to lim kopi
it’s a vicious cycle. how to have more babies when life is so stressful with all the non-citizens competing for a livelihood (more like competing for survival).
i remember many donkey years ago, a tall guy said we should aim to achieve a Swiss standard of living (note: not jap standard) – i think it’s a good vision, but sadly we aren’t even close after trying for so many years.
the swiss don’t import many foreigners and yet everyone lives well and enjoys high standards in ALL aspects of life.
and i don’t think the swiss have many babies too. their fertility rate is 1.45 – it’s higher than ours most probably because they have better work-life balance and both parents and children are less stressed out.
sell me this vision again.
If Singaporeans have a Swiss level of life, everyone will migrate. Why go to ITE or Poly if you can go to a Aus or Canadian university. Why do a BioEngineering if u can do Medicine in Aus. Even though your GDP is very high, salaries are low to make sure that people do not have choice. If SG were a big country with a big population, it was feasible. Unfortunately, the only way Singapore can survive as a nation is if people do not have a choice. And to make sure they dont have a choice, they must not have MONEY.
How true. But then again, by having a swiss standard of living, it also means raising all aspects of our livelihood, this includes education, healthcare, employment. Raising the standard of our education provider is also part of it. Take a look at Taiwan, Hongkong, If i’m not wrong, their universities have overtaken Singapore in the Universities ranking. Our education system is too rigid, everyone is damn book smart, but not street smart. There’s no culture encouraging innovation, mistakes are punished immediately(Unless your part of PAP, in that case, there’s a seperate rulebook for that), doesn’t matter if the consequences are actually beneficial. With a system like this, how is the country going to improve?
It is obvious that everyone is quite upset by the topic. However, it is very clear as well that there is a whole load of complaining on this board, with people not willing to step up to do anything.
1) Governmental policies are there for a reason. Stop complaining about them unless you have a better idea and can work through the web of policies that can make it work. If you bring in less foreign workers, then there are qualified people in the work field to take on the job. If there are less qualified people, the MNC can move headquarters to a country that has a more lax policy. Hence, more people lose their jobs. As you can tell, foreign policy is tough to work around.
2) Yes, low wages are painful as Dogg has mentioned. However, high wages coupled with a high standard of living is even more painful. Food prices are exorbitant in Switzerland. Chicken rice does not cost 3 dollars, rather 20 dollars. They just imposed a ban on building minarets in the country. Would you rather stay there and subject yourself to be a foreigner with little rights? I don’t think so
3) A lot of us earn low salaries. That is true. If a job with some company gives you no security, then start one of your own. Be open to venture out of Singapore. Don’t use family as an excuse because the foreigners in Singapore have families overseas as well. Any overseas experience is valuable, and when or if you come back to Singapore, you then show that you are capable of risk taking and have a capacity to lead.
4) Each and everyone of you has the capability to excel and earn the pay that you want to. Negative comments about others and yourself does not help you, rather it serves as a tool for others to use against you.
I leave you with something that left a deep impression on me. I hope it does the same for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ya9BXClRw
I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ya9BXClRw
Really touching n inspirational.
so you are saying the government never makes policy mistakes, we should never question any policy, view switzerland as a failure because prices are high, and start a business because our salaries are low despite all the fancy education we got?
singapore CAN become like switzerland and even better if we have better leaders who themselves are open minded and really care for the progress of the nation.
great leaders have transformed countries (lincoln, the roosevelts), companies (welch and ghosn), clubs (mourinho), schools etc.
we need great leaders, not just good managers or worse, script readers who fall asleep at work.
Nowhere did I state that the government does not make mistakes. In fact, I full agree that they do. We should question policy, however not negatively but constructively. The key is if one identifies a problem, one should as well come up with a suitable solution. Again, nowhere did I state that Switzerland is a failure. We need to determine what good pay is first. One should be remunerated according to his contributions to the company. If you determine that 2000 is too low, what is a decent range that you should be remunerated for your position? There are ways that you can leverage you position in the company and your expertise to command larger pay. From what I know, with more pay, you are expected to take on more responsibility which can transpose into even longer working hours. Are you willing and able at the same time to take on this responsibility? If so, then there are numerous companies that can and will hire you. Again, positions are open in Singapore. It depends on the individual to exploit their skills and to find the job that compensates them accordingly. If you need examples of how this has happened for people, I would be happy to furnish you with details.
It would be horrible if Singapore became like Switzerland. It is a beautiful place, but still segregated by language, monopolies and overly flexible rules that are difficult to change. The difference between Singapore and Switzerland is that Singapore has done in 40 years what Switzerland took more than a hundred years to achieve. Let us not regress and rather progress.
Wonderful indeed that we both agree that great leaders are needed to bring our nation into greater heights. Hence, we need people willing to make the sacrifice to be educated, informed, trained and to be given a chance to step forth and lead. Again, the sacrifice is not easy, however necessary.
I get it from the video in youtube, don’t complain and work harder. And it seems there are an equal number of complains and frustration from the non-citizens as well in this board.
To Dogg and the non-citizens here, then why are you guys ranting here? Dogg is the person too eager to make the 1st post here anyway.
Singapore has already given you guys opportunities to improve your standard of living. What more do you guys want? What’s YOUR point of complaining here? Why not just work hard and be happy? You probably get even more discriminated in other country anyway.
PB, I like it when you mentioned “when one identifies a problem, one should as well come up with a suitable solution.” However, whether the policy makers willing to listen to the solution is another question.
In the recent budget debate, Low Thia Kiang and Chiam See Tong recommended solutions to improve manpower policies. Were the recommendations taken constructively? You can probably imagine how fiercely they were shot down no matter who brillant they were. Hardly any sacrifice anyone would make to improve Singapore.
You have made a very valid point and that is a problem we can mitigate. There can be a way to bring this point up during the MP Sessions and to have them bring it up to parliamentary level. After all, the MP is there to be your representative and voice in parliament. It may seem to be a long chain in order to get your voice heard, however, it is a legal and non confrontational method to have our collective concerns addressed.
Both opposition members hold great respect for their contributions. They both aim to do much good. Though I would like to see a more charismatic side from both their parties. They both have great ideas, though put forward in maybe a different way. I believe we need to analyse both arguments again to see why they were rejected.
PB : in order to have a meaningful conversation you need to first resist the temptation to so easily dismiss other people as complainers or whiners. I’m happy to listen and learn from what you have to say if you can be equally respectful to what others have to say. If you cannot do that then please stop reading here and don’t bother.
I thought Jeff put it so much more eloquently than I could ever do and wrote a really good piece on the issues at hand.
Have you read it?
If not I strongly urge you to read it now.
1) If democracy is not about citizen participation then what is?
I find it offensive that a citizen be told that he/she should shut up unless involved as politicians or have ‘solutions’.
There is no systems that i know of that can be healthy without open feedback.
I hope when you said less qualified people you are not talking about Singaporeans.
As what Jeff has said nobody is talking about stopping foreign talents from coming to Singapore and contributing.
We are saying that the uncontrolled flow is causing wage depression and hardship.
We are saying that if there are Singaporeans capable of doing the job there’s no reason to bring in cheap foreigners to compete on costs – because let’s face it business will almost always go for the cheaper options given choices.
Look at the numbers and you will see that Singaporeans are not asking for the sky when it comes to wages.
Let’s also ignore the fact that our govt are responsible for why cost of living in Singapore are so high.
If it’s high it’s only because you are comparing it to wages from developing countries.
As PR also said wage stagnation causes hardship for Singaporeans and foreigners alike.
I dare say that Singaporeans suffer even greater given that most have little other safe harbour like another home country.
But more importantly we must stop the exploitation on both Singaporeans and foreigners.
I don’t believe all companies would move just because of single factor like costs and ignoring other risks like political stability, intellectual and labour laws, safe clean environment, efficient infrastructure, expat friendly living space etc.
2) Swiss standard of living is a political lie pushed on us.
But idea that Singapore and Singaporeans should all progress together is valid.
Why else would we strive so hard?
So that we and our children could have comparable living standards as other developing countries?
3) As Jeff has mentioned we do not have a level playing field.
To ignore it is to ignore the reality out there.
If family is not an issue then ask the foreigners if they want to move their families over here and try competing as new citizens.
I’ll be interested to hear what they think.
You seems to believe that it’s easy for any Singaporean to just venture out and succeed easily somewhere else.
Could you let us know which other countries have such open foreigner policies like Singapore that we could do that?
Which other people are as accommodating as Singaporeans?
You yourself have said that who wants to go to another country and be a foreigner with little rights?
And why should Singaporeans be displaced because we are forced out by this open floodgate policy?
Again we are asking just for a sensible policy so please don’t try to frame it as persecution of foreigners or xenophobia.
After all isn’t the govt social contract to take care of it’s citizen first?
Doesn’t the pledge starts with ‘We, the citizens of Singapore’?
4) You are right about the negative comments.
Please read the posts here and let me know who are the ones making vicious and spiteful comments?
Show me which posts has Singaporeans attacking foreigners?
Who are the bigots?
Would these same jokers move to Australia for example and try the same stunts over there?
and the productivity issue was first highlighted much earlier by Kenneth Jeyaratnam of Reform Party. nope, the PAP did not shoot it down then (fortunately for them), but instead adopted the idea much later when they run out of ideas!
Thanks PB. Your comments make sense.
The intend and benefits of getting more non-citizens into Singapore have not been effectively communciated. Singaporeans are not convinced.
In most countries, one of the ways to help mitigate this is to impose higher income taxes to non-citizens (including PRs). Singapore can probably apply the same. Even with higher taxes, there are still capable, hardworking people willing to work and settle down in more developed and secured countries than their native nations. It’s also a motivational factor to attract the good ones to convert to citizens.
What are your thoughts on the 2 points?
Middleclass: Of course I appreciate your straightforwardness with regards to this matter. There is no dismissal of complainers or whiners, just a conscientious mind that we should stop complaining first and think of a solution. It is a general statement to us all.
Jeff has made fantastic points and yes, I have read them. Let me try to address your issues as thoroughly as I can.
1) If democracy is not about citizen participation then what is?
Yes, I stand by the statement that one should find solutions first before voicing out. Complaining can only breed contention and if there is a real problem, then we should take action. Open feedback is constructive, and what you have done, is give very good feedback. Never would I think that Singaporeans are less qualified. Singaporeans are the most educated, strong willed and creative minds that I have met. As a Singaporean, I am truly proud to say that I am among the best in the world. Exactly because we have a uncontrollable flow, we have to curb it. You are very right on this matter. What is impossible though is to send these people back immediately, rather to control this flow, evaluate who should stay, and take action. Recently, steps have been taken and can be seen to already to be in effect. Let us be open to see if it works properly.
If you don’t mind, I do not have access to these figures. What are we asking for and can these figures be matched to company staffing increase and future revenue?
On contrary, I was comparing it to the salary of nations where I have done remuneration surveys on. These include many developed countries in Europe and Asia. As much as possible, we should take a census from comparable salary scales and professions as you mentioned.
Wage stagnation is a problem in a recession. We are looking at moving out and to improve the economy. I actually look forward to see what will happen by 3rd Q this year to see if this stagnation continues.
The policies that Singapore has structured for foreign companies are beneficial to both us and to the companies. I fully agree with your point. What I was trying to illustrate was the problems that can come from not being able to properly evaluate policy changes.
2) Swiss standard of living is a political lie pushed on us.
True on all counts. Though the Swiss standard I personally feel we have exceeded in many ways. Rather than a Swiss standard, we should start setting our own standards.
3) As Jeff has mentioned we do not have a level playing field.
There is no ignorance in this aspect. We all know that is true. The first thing we must do is realise, that’s this is not something we can change overnight. What we change now, we do it for the next generation. To move a step forward, we may have to take a step backwards instead.
Yes, I do believe it is easy for Singaporeans to venture out, that is if they want to and are willing to. I am not saying you will start at the top or even at the middle, but you will gain immense experience from living overseas and fending for yourself. New Zealand has offered Singaporeans entry with open arms. Before that, Australia has quite the open door policy as well. I know of many Singaporeans that currently work in the EU and the States. I agree, the foreigners have it easier, and that just means that we Singaporeans should work harder and emerge stronger from this.
I understand what you have said. Again, there is no framing or persecution here. Only opinions about what we can do as one people.
If the productivity idea was adopted as you said, then isn’t that an admission that they have made a mistake and are willing to take the steps to mitigate it? I would like to think that it is better that they adopted it, rather than not.
PB : i find your positive attitude and optimism very admirable.
Nothing wrong there.
However I also need to point out that the reason why most Singaporeans are skeptical is due to the govt history of paying lip services just before the elections and then doing what they please after.
As bushie used to say ‘fool me once shame on you, fool me…can’t get fooled again.’
While you are right that these problems cannot be changed overnight you should also note that these problems did not happen overnight either.
The govt would need to examine itself first why the ground is turning sour.
It’s hardly helping that their first and continuing habit is to blame Singaporeans for problems their policies created.
As a manager I agree with you that I expect my staff to think of solution before they raise issues.
But I would never expect my lowly operators to provide solutions to problems that is beyond their comprehension and sphere of control or influence.
That should never stop them from raising an issue.
This is common sense.
Wage stagnation did not happen just recently due to the recession.
We already had wage stagnation during the so called golden age when the floodgate was opened and cost of living started rocketing out of control.
Pretty evident from the housing prices and salaries figures among others.
Speaking from my experience working in MNCs I can safely say that salaries are only one factor that companies consider when they decide where to move.
That cost is nothing compared to companies making a wrong move and risking business disruptions due to political instability, infrastructure problems, corruption, sanctions or intellectual property theft etc.
Not to mention that MNCs have most of their salaries cost because of expats that they need to manage their business.
These expat costs are even higher in most other countries.
They are depressing wages because they were given the choice.
That’s no different from local SMEs doing the same thing.
As a region manager I am also pretty familiar with regional and global conditions.
I can also say that Singapore salaries alone are not going to scare away companies because of all the other competitive advantages we have.
Those that leave will eventually leave no matter what if we are just competing on costs.
I would disagree with you that it’s easy for Singaporeans to venture out.
Yes that could be true for a small percentage of very talented and top talents.
However that’s not true for the majority of the normal Singaporeans.
None of the countries have such open policies and NZ is hardly a robust economy compared to Singapore.
The point is also then why should they be forced to be displaced from their country and families to move under much less favorable conditions?
Again nothing against venturing out and opening new frontiers but don’t persecute those that either does not want to or cannot.
Don’t follow the govt logic that just because a developing country person can live on much lower salary or forced to go to another country to earn a living therefore another Singaporean must do that too.
Why should an equally capable Singaporeans be punished or force to shoulder the failings of other countries?
SG salaries are peanuts in comparison to similar economies. In football lingo, its like a first team footballer getting paid 30,000 per week in EPL when the rest are easily drawing in excess of 50,000.
However, you cannot jux raise wages or salaries for a specific group. That will cause income gaps. So you have to raise wages for everyone. Good, but how viable? All wages up despite individual performances? Since, many are managers here, ask yourself if you are willing to give everyone a raise of say 5% despite his/her lack of competence?
Wages drive price levels, thats basic economics. Higher wages have to come from somewhere, retained earnings, taxes, higher prices, higher overall costs. There is no free lunch in this world.
Living Standards are a big grey area, and there is no perfect apple for apple comparison. Alot of it is subjective and is not bias free. Comparing SG with Swiss or AU or Shanghai or TKY is not a fair comparison.
Compare SG with similar economies with similar low tax structure, and u might find SG isnt that far off.
Compare SG with Swiss, Scandiavian, Europe, AU, where taxes are higher, and u might find SG is far off. But do factor in the costs, explicit or inplicit.
That said, Im not saying we cannot do anything about our situation. We can change. Comparing via costs in this Asia Pacific region is self suicidal. Only way is to move up the value chain. How to? Thats a million dollar question. For managers, ask yourself, how do you improve your overall KPIs, increase your staff standards and not blowing up your budget? Its not as easy as what some think. And pointing fingers at convenient targets cannot solve anything.
SG economies operate largely on capitalism. Biz owners are profit seeking. Unless u overhaul the whole system, this issue of low vs high costs (read low wages vs high wages) will be a sticking issue.
Some folks have attribute wage costs to a low proportion of biz in SG. But, do look carefully, many biz are still heavily reliant on labour, hence labour costs are important to such small setups, which in turn affect the whole economy. Company specifics attributes (capital intensive, High Tech, Low wage component) are jux part of a bigger overall economy. And companies cannot operate soley on themselves, neither are they shielded from external fluctuations i.e higher labour costs in logistics, service.
These are points that many fail to see.
Basically, what most pple here feel is not that we want change immediately, we’re just unhappy that the government is denying all these facts that are happening around us. Worst still, they’re blaming us for it. It’s basically like the directors making decisions and then when things goes awry, they blame the staff for failing in their jobs. How would this even be possible in commercial world? The whole board of directors would be overhauled when that happens.
They say that it’s different when it comes to politics. But it’s a fact that themselves are the one who tried ways and means to justify their own fat salary pegged at top 40 earners? Talking about free lunch… I think they’ve ate so much they grew so fat.
While many of us are unhappy with the wages/salaries standard of Singapore, we also understand that these are things that we can’t control as all businesses needs cost control. However, if you were to look into finer details of what caused all these wage distortion. You will actually find that it’s all due to our own policies, by becoming too eager to push our home grown corporation into “elite” status, they poured millions of our money into all these state owned companies, resulting in unfair competition with others smaller setups. By putting in untried and untested former political/civil service leaders at the helm of these companies, they subject the culture and values of these companies to the same regimental and authoritarian management practised by government agencies, thus restricting creative thinking.
All these in turn contributed to the current situation we are in. By advocating cheaper, better, faster, they are in fact competing directly with countries like Indonesia, China & India, the masters of unlimited labour supply. Eventually, these low cost outfits would also move over to China/India to take advantage of their growing markets.
While I admit cost leadership is an excellent growth engine for an emerging economy. We can no longer grow on cost leadership in our current situation. In order to attract companies to set up offices in our country, the government has lowered labour cost and improved the standards of living in the country. All these served to make the country attractive to them. However, the ultimate victims are the pple as we are the package that makes them come, but we do not have the luxury to enjoy the improvements the government built.
Thank you very much for your kind words of encouragement middleclass,
Your point here I would guess is that the issue lies with forecasting. As we think back to when policies were implemented and when they actually follow through or take effect, we realise that we have fallen behind the trend and are in need of change. The issue I believe is that there is always a lag between the policy issuance and effect.
The operations side as well should raise issues of course. Like in Japan, the automobile industry operation staff came up with a handy way to raise issues on the assembly line. The key would be close interactions between the frontline staff and operations. It also boils down to culture. When introduced to US auto makers, an issue was raised repeatedly when the staff could have solved it themselves. Now we have to ask if we were to put us Singaporeans in the same situation, would we tend towards the Americans, or the Japanese methodology.
Of course salary would not be the only factor as you have already mentioned. However, we have the problem of rising costs as well, with regards to rents, expectations of staff etc. With these rising cost and possible future expenditure requirements, we may see further move out of MNCs then we may expect.
You have very sound reasons for Singaporeans not to venture out. I take more to the other side of the debate. Interviews with headhunters have had this issue surface that Singaporeans are not as willing to venture out as other nationalities. This poses an issue that Singaporeans can lack overseas experience, multicultural or specific cultural management, and some of these factors can affect their chances of ascending up the ladder.
The increase of wages across the board may not be that viable an idea, hence, a tiered approach may be more sufficient in this case. With top performers gaining a higher salary, and lower performers with a lower tier salary. Of course, with any method of compensation, there are pros and cons, hence, more analysis into this matter would be needed.
Agreed that living standards are hard to compare. However, let us take a look at the living conditions, the advancement of infrastructure and even the tax, you will find Singapore is way ahead of many modern economies.
No countries for citizens – your points are well taken as well. Top down communication is a problem not just within organizations but within countries as well. I think this is an aspect that requires much needed attention. However, channels are open to us to hear about how the crafted policies and benefits affect us. The issue may be how many of us actually seek to find out.
The tax issue is an interesting debate point. I agree that higher taxes may be a good idea for non-citizens. However, the way the tax is structured and the justification for it must be well communicated. What I believe in is applying a “Social Tax” to expats. The form is to inform that the person coming to the country is effectively taking over the position of a citizen who can or may be qualified for the same position. Hence, there is a social effect of having the expat in Singapore. This can be a fair method of applying a higher social control of who is allowed to enter Singapore as well, allowing for greater scrutiny of expatriate inflows.