Among news like a monk and an infidel GP doctor making six-figure income, there’s an interesting piece in ST two days ago – ex-top civil servant Ngiam Tong Dow worries that Singapore is becoming “high cost, low tech”.
“The United States has overtaken Britain because while some of their best went to Wall Street, their best still go into engineering.”
His concern is valid.
In Singapore, the best JC students are attracted by glitzy ads and employment survey reports (see example) glamorizing the banking and finance industry and repeatedly highlighting that top dollars are made there.
For engineers and techies, they only get to hear things like “with a basic degree, you get to wash test tubes”.
Or that engineering and tech talent are a dime a dozen from China and India.
It is no wonder that students die to get into the in-demand courses like business, finance and accounting, while engineering and technology-related courses are dumping grounds.
See my previous posts on getting out of engineering and dead end career.
We all know that techies are undervalued in sunny Singapore. You’re a techie, you make 5k and be happy. Stay happy. Else get out and go to countries like USA, Japan, or even China and Taiwan where tech talent are much more highly valued than over here. Or, get into banking or do a sales job.
So Mr Ngiam worries about the lack of local high-tech talent.
There’s always a simple solution (right?): Start paying top dollars for engineers.
Start with tech-related ministries and agencies like Mindef and MDA. Then, move to tech-related GLCs like Singapore Technologies and JTC.
Pay millions for, say, the Chief Innovator in DSTA and ask the media to cover this ad nauseum (much like the way life sciences were glamorized in the not too distant past).
Hopefully we get to confuse the students again.
202 Comments
army_regular, many people are still hoping to get into the banking & finance industry even at times like this and you are certainly not alone. Many are willing to take on contractual roles in banking until the recession is over before scouting for another more permanent role. Even with the relevant certs and degree, it is very diificult to get in the industry without any experiences. So i can only say good luck to you.
hi all. i see that so much discussion about finance and engineering sector going on, is there anyone with hindsight on the IT sector. I got a B.Comp and noticed that IT grads usually get a much lower starting pay than almost everyone, usually below 2.6k/mo while fresh engineering guys etc usually find themselves carrying home 3.5k/mo or more.
Yeah, definitely low cost low tech is correct.
Baka-neko, IT grads are paid that low probably because you join the wrong company. In my company even fresh grads get almost double of what you’re getting. No offense there, just stating facts.
Hai~
My company just have some engineer lay off. So sad and the best part is that my company which is a large MNC have never retrenched any engineer since it have set up in spore 30 years ago. I can’t help but think
1)engineer is low cost low tech, but if it is stable, so be it. Be a tortise, yet you still compete the race. However, i seriously doubt, as we are also in danger of retrenchment
2)I have work 4 yrs in eng, & my pay is only 3400 and I am now 30 yrs old. Is it too late to switch?
Worrying days
engineers are not of much value. if engineering is important, sg govt will set up singapore engineering university in bras basah, not singapore management university.
30yrs old is not too late. I now 28 and pay 3500. but feel current engineering job not suitable to me in long run as soon I will have to bring home works to do. I want spend my weekends 100% on family life.
I think you have to decide what life-style and trade-in u are comfortable with. I even consider buy house in Johor and work in SG after married. This will increase my salary “2 times” loh. Of course, that mean I have to spend more time & effort on travelling (can watch video using PSP)but I think worth it.
bad reasoning.. still need engineers.. just that they are not well paid.. pay at times is not tagged to value of the job/work.. and this is very much the case.
If I decided to switch, which industry should I go for, or what type of course should I under-take.
1) Bank – corporate, investment (which i do not think I can get in)
2) Take a MBA
3) Other sale-orientated job like property agent or insurance
To low cost-low tech
Your views and comments are so myopic. SMU is setup to meet the rising demands of undergrad enrolment in Singapore. And for your info, the faculty of engineering has the highest enrolment rate in both NUS and NTU due to higher resources as compared to school of business. Moreover, SMU is setup with an aim of providing a business from another approach. FYI again, SMU degrees are not yet recognised globally when compared to NUS or NTU degrees.
To ECE,
I agree with you that renewable energy such as solar energy (in which the gov put a lot of emphasis on) is a viable option in Singapore. However, Singapore is currently extremely backward in solar technology as compared to solar tech research giants such as germany, australia and USA. FYI, the newly setup research institute in NUS (Solar Energy Research Institute of Singapore, SERIS) only focuses on 1st and 2nd generation solar tech, as they do not believe in the newer 3rd generation. Moreover, the major activities in the solar field here involves the construction of manufacturing plants, not research labs. So if you want to venture into this field, best bet is to go places like aust or germany.
PS: Your offshore solar plant is not viable yet due to the high cost of underwater cables for transmission of electricity. This will further strain the initial investment due to the already very high cost of solar modules. Moreover, maintainence cost will increase dramatically if the modules are offshore.
when will we see a new university setup with an aim of providing an engineering education from another approach, without mass producing engineering graduates for the manufacturing plants ?
My two cents worth. When you don’t succeed, don’t blame it on others. Whether you succeed in the working world is irregardless of what degree you did in school. Many of us go on and on claiming that business is a better degree than engineering. Well, if you are so damn good, you will succeed anywhere and with whatever degree you did in uni. But if you are no good, the outcome will be the same, regardless of whatever degree you have.
Success depends on some luck.
It will still be good to discuss what kind of degrees are good for general students.
We know that a Philosophy major can also be a millionaire, but what is the mean/median salary of all philosophy majors in Singapore?
Students should choose a degree course with eyes wide open and armed with such info.
To low cost-lower tech
Engineering is different from business degrees. Being a professional and accredited degree, there are certain guidlines in which the course has to follow. Furthermore, engineering degree in Singapore now is much more different as compared to the past. New course materials and requirements such as human resource and biz modules are present for a holistic education.
The basline is that the system can only do this much. Many ppl take an engineering course but only some will excel. This is the same in all other courses such as business.
Quoting low cost-low tech, if engineering is mass producing engine grads for manufacturing plants, business is also good in mass producing biz grads for 8 to 5 offices in Raffles Place.
Of course, this is not true. Only people with aim and passion excel. So please do not make stereotyping and sweeping statements.
But if you are no good, the outcome will be the same, regardless of whatever degree you have.
I do not agreed. What make a person so good, if he is not gifted by nature. It is the education and the environment. My qns is: Do you think that people from engineering background is aiming for a easy way out or rather they have been in this environment, hence know the limitation of this industry, esp in spore.
Read the Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Success is a combination of many factors, and luck plays a major, major part.
To Drahcir,
As what goodie has mentioned, success is determined by a very complex combination of factors. Of course education and environment is one of them, but they are not the only determining ones.
Do you really think going into the finance sector or any other sector from engineering is an “easy way out”? I believe to be able to succeed in any industry, there is no easy way out, especially in Singapore. Also, what kind of limitation are you talking about? Career prospects? Annual income? Starting a company? If you are talking about all these, then there is limitation in all sectors and industries, because currently i do not know of any sector or industry which can allow most people in the industry, if not all, to be able to do very well in the above mentioned fields.
when will we see a new university setup with an aim of providing an engineering education from another approach, without mass producing non-holistic engineering graduates who can only think for the not valued, low cost-low tech sg manufacturing plants ??
As long as the government value the finance industry more than engineering, finance grads will always earn more on the whole, regardless of whether they are bright sparks or average performer. We’re talking about what’s the best industry to go into for the average student. If you’re a bright spark, no matter where you go you’ll still do well (with a bit of luck of course).
I give you 2 extreme examples to illustrate my point:
Imagine you’re average, and you decide to do ballet. How to survive in Singapore as an average ballerina?
Now imagine you’re an average back office operations guy in UOB bank or MAS. You’ll have a stable career with above-average pay barring unforeseen circumstances like retrenchments (UOB has no retrenchment thus far in this crisis and MAS has never retrenched any staff).
hi
m i still doing well, if i m bright spark going far in a low cost low tech place ?
To Undergrad:
U misunderstand my qns. Anyway, what I am trying to tell you is for engineering graduate to go into sale/bank is hard, but we will still try, becoz of the limitation of engineering in spore. The biggest of all challenge coming from China. In a nutshell, cost. Meaning that our manufacturing plant which is owned by foreign MNC will move out one day. can be very fast. And giving the environment banking will be one of the key pillar to be developed in spore. And trust me, a lot of engineering graduate succeed in banking
To Drachir,
Sorry that I misunderstood your qn. Anyway, I do agree with you that a lot of engineering grad succeed in banking, especially in finance related jobs due to the analytical nature and good handling of figures present in most engineers due to the nature of their course. A lot of banks are actually holding recruitment drives in NUS and NTU engineering to recruit engineers into financial sectors.
To lower cost-lower tech,
I suggest that before you post anymore comments, go check out the recent news and development of education and careers in Singapore.
Firstly, President Nathan has already revealed the commencement of a 4th university in Singapore, and MOE has just held a press conference stating that the 4th university will be a university of applied technology, situated in Changi.
Secondly, if you are a bright spark in engineering, you will most probably won’t go into production or manufacturing, but rather research areas in which singapore is pouring a lot of money into. You can go check out how much good researchers earn in institutes like Astar. I know they earn a lot. Alternatively, if you are a bright spark, you may even excel if you venture in the banking/finance sector, or even become an entrepreneur.