According to our calculations, your citizenship is worth $4,511 more than permanent residents per year. For that, you have to serve NS if you are male, and watch some of your PR friends sell their HDBs for a good profit and then return to their (sometimes) cheaper home countries to enjoy retirement.
As a Singapore citizen, here’s what you enjoy (reference: ST, 24 Oct 2009 online link):
- Child birth. If you stay in a Class B2+ ward, you pay $475. For PR, it’s $506, which is $31 more. The average Singapore woman has about 1 child and will thus get the $10,000 baby bonus (we ignore the fact that she will have to split the bonus with her husband). Spread over 20 years of providing for the child, the baby bonus amounts to $500 per year. Total child birth benefit: $31 + $500 = $531/yr.
- Childcare subsidy. Singaporean working mum gets a $300/mth subsidy while PRs get nothing. Total childcare benefit: $3,600/yr.
- School fees. PRs pay $2,884 more than Singaporeans per child for the 16 years of education all the way to university. This is $180/yr.
- Marriage fees. Insignificant.
- Housing. Though PRs are not eligible to buy new flats, many Singaporeans also do not buy new flats. Since both citizens and PRs are eligible to buy resale flats, for ease of comparison, we will treat housing benefit as insignificant. [Added 1 Nov: Married citizens enjoy a $30k-$40k grant, while singles can get $11k-$20k. Spread over the long term of owning a home, say over 30 years, this is about $666/yr per person in addition to the $4,511 calculated previously, making a total of $5,177/yr. Thanks to the reader who highlighted this.]
- Health subsidies. Citizens get about 10% more subsidy than PRs. Assuming that an average citizen spends $20k over 10 years, this 10% difference amounts to $200/yr.
Grand total: $4,511 per year. Note that if you’re single, it would be just $200 per year.
No wonder the ST reporter Zakir Hussain said “the distinctions between citizens and PRs could not have been clearer.”
Do you think your citizenship should be worth a lot more?
153 Comments
Unless you think that a Singaporean woman giving birth requires more talent than a non-Singaporen woman giving birth, I guess 3600$ is a good enough incentive.
I cannot understand why people think that being born in Singapore entitles them to a better life than people who work hard to reach a place like Singapore. Singapore does not grant PRs to undeserving candidates. They are generally above average in terms of either educational background or economic background. Hence, to attract talented foreigners, Singapore must be attractive. So, what is the problem in a PR having the same benefits as a citizen. How is it fair for a smarted PR to live a life worse than a dumber Singaporean ?? I still believe that in a case of a PR and a Singaporean with exactly that same talent, the Singaporean will have an edge in terms of opportunities.
2 years of NS is required. But to become a PR, a few years of residency, sharing accommodations, compromising on luxuries, not to mention hard work is required. PRs do not do NS but they have struggled their way through to reach a point where Singapore is glad to give them a PR. So, to ignore a PR’s effort is equivalent to insulting his/her existance.
In a global economy, people should realize that passport alone cannot ensure a good life. Singaporeans are born with better opportunities and infrastructures , and should make use of them to achieve a better life. Its actually the underachievers in Singapore who whine about topics such as these. Such people should have been born in Scandinavia.
The reason why many PR leave Singapore is bcus they realize that Singapore is not the best option for them. I am sure if a Singaporean gets a chance to study at Oxford, he/she wont even consider NUS/NTU.
In short, I believe that Singaporeans already have enough support from their Govt. They should make the best use of the opportunities they have and achieve a good life. If you do all the work Singapore needs to compete globally, Singapore wont need PRs. But until then, give PRs a good life too, bcus they deserve it. And perhaps, deserve it more than a lot of Singaporeans.
Zhang Yuan Yuan studied in a private institute here for 2 years before becoming a Chinese language teacher at Julia Gabriel.
She got her PR really quick, just within 2-3 months after application.
Of course, like what fcb said, she’s a deserving talent compared to all the silly dumb Singaporeans.
Quit complaining and migrate to Scandinavia.
i love Sarcasm.
ok, Zhang Yuan Yuan is not a super asset to Singapore. but, then blame your Singaporean ICA who still think that she is needed in your country. She mite be earning 2-3k a month, traveling in the mrt, sharing an accommodation with other people. go ahead, take that away from her too. tax her 1500 SGD for being born in china or indonedia, and subsidize a singaporean. i wonder why no singaporean took that teaching job. either they are too good for that job or not good enough.
Come on, don’t always count the dollars.
Singaporeans also benefit from having the red passports, their voting rights, and the rights to speak at Speakers’ Corner and to form political parties.
Voting rights? You joking or what?
To fcb: Ok, I will blame my Singaporean ICA. But anyone would agree that no other country in the world is more foreigner friendly than Singapore which has more than one-third of its population comprising of foreigners and PR. Don’t compare with NYC, as we’re not a city, regardless of what the law minister said recently.
And contrary to what you said, many of these PRs are not really highly talented. They got the jobs because they are cheap. Old uncles and aunties working as cleaners are gradually being replaced by these cheaper foreign talent.
If you’re a white-collar professional, it’s harder for you to see the magnitude of this issue unless you personally know people who are squeezed at the lower echelons.
Of course, the other possibility is that you can’t be bothered because you are a beneficiary of Singapore’s overly generous foreign talent policy.
ok, i understand your point. but maybe instead of calling a PR cheap, we should look at the greed of employers [capitalistic greed], who hire an outsider for low pay instead of a singaporean for slightly higher pay. its a world wide trend now.
i do agree that not all PRs or foreigners are talented. its the same everywhere, even in the US. a cheap PR mite just be a person born in poverty trying to make a better life. u really think anyone dreams to be a cleaner in Singapore.
Corporate greed and ICA’s policies may be responsible, but is it fair to blame the PR. afterall, a PR is not doing something that is Illegal. maybe, its unfair to a singaporean, but its legal.
i am not a PR. i studied in NUS for Phd but took a job elsewhere. but i always consider Singapore as a place to live bcus its really nice. i have stayed in singapore on a small scholarhip for 5 years, rented a room, treated like an atm by rich landlords who whined about 10-20 dollars. it happens everywhere in the world but i think i shd at least have the same chance at life that a person born in Singapore has. else, why would i want to live in singapore. thus, i feel Singapore should a policy to attract foreigners.
What possessed you to believe that Singapore is not a city? Are you like some villager or something?
And why do NTU students all have disgraceful diction? And they were supposed to be ‘graduates’ of some communication course that prepares students for journalism..hahhaa..i just watched the RazorTv website you guys have and heard the diction of some of your so-called graduates, who sound like mainlanders, but unlike the mainlanders, isn’t the ability to speak English what you claim to be your trump card? I mean most of you can’t speak good Mandarin and write good Chinese either like the Chinese and Taiwanese or speak Cantonese or write Chinese like the Hongkies..
I think a lot of Singaporeans here are embarrassing, and will not stand a chance in the global stage. The top few elites, those who attended top universities abroad, since there are none here, feel embarrassed but are held back by political correctness to say a word..
I think Singapore is a good place to be in, if we foreigners just hung out with a select group.
yeah, singkies can’t speak both english and chinese well, at least not eloquent and fluent enough to hold even a small candle to the native speakers- including some of their leadership, political and corporate.
Bosses like to hire PRs not only because they are cheaper. PRs also don’t have to go for reservist training. And unlike the typical Singaporean, PRs work harder and also complain less. Some bosses especially like single PRs as without family commitments they have no qualms putting in very long hours. Needless to say, they naturally “chiong” less than Singaporeans.
I’ve compiled a table too detailing the difference in benefits that SG and PR will receive:
http://people.delphiforums.com/…/Benefits_of_Singaporean_vs_PR1
If you’re a Singaporean after reading it, you will be very pissed too….
who have you been hanging out with? open your eyes.
You forgot that citizens enjoy HDB housing grant:
link
We cannot quantify citizenship, the qualitative aspect is much more.
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sinkie’s been hanging out with his fellow singkies. 99% of Singaporeans, especially the donkeys who have stayed in Singapore and studying in its lousy schools all their lives, speak worse English than a 10 year old in America and worse Mandarin than a 10 year old in Taipei.
Even the US Sudoku champ, Tammy McLeod (she took her American husband’s surname) who still holds a Singapore passport but wants to give it up and get a US one, studied in the elite MIT.
Yet the state press here credited her intellectual rigors to her education in RGS and RJC. What a bunch of toads in denial – I asked my Singapore friends and they all vouched that 99% of RGS/RI/RJC students end up in the local universities like their supposed lesser friends from lesser friends.
Every year, close to 20,000 people get a place in local colleges here after A levels, and less than 5 per year make it to MIT.
kojakbt: there’s a glaring error in your list of perks for citizens. You failed to include the HDB grant of $40,000 for first time flat buyers. You simply rattled off a list of prices, from what I see, are resale prices. Second, the cap for grant for first time flat buyers is $8,000 per household, and not $5,000 as you claimed. And admin, you’re insanely wrong when you assumed that many Singaporeans do not make use of the $40k, or do not qualify.
It means that you mix with the ‘richer’ crowd here. There are MANY MANY Singaporeans who make use of the $40k grant.
Many many. It shows not many Singaporeans make beyond $4k by the time they get married. Based on my interaction with them, I can only say how much they make is correlated with the level of their (non-existent) intellect and (low) competency. Sinkies in general, no need to be so Singaporean and find everyone else to blame, from your mother, the dog to the government, for your ill-fate in life.
does “MANY MANY” include u? u spoke as if u were an MIT-type elite. if that’s the case u don’t even need to be aware of such grants. either that or u’ve been mixing too much with the peasants. tsk tsk tsk. elites should only mix with their kind, and cross-breed among themselves. now get out of my elite uncaring face.
For the foreigners and women,
If I were to impose a tax of you, demanding that you give up TWO YEARS worth of income in excess of $500 a month, how willing would you be to pay it? That TWO YEARS worth of income includes all bonuses, OT pay. That should come up to easily $50k for most.
Then factor in the loss of two years worth of seniority pay that you will miss out for the rest of your working life.
Easily $100k perhaps?
That’s just the tangible cost.
You still get to do whatever you want. You can stop work if you feel like it. You can yell at your boss and not go to prison.
And how about the risks to life and limb? The Singapore government does not take care of the disabled servicemen for life even due to service related injuries. They discharge you from NS, pat their backside and walk away. How do you account for that?
How much more would you demand to be paid if your job comes with serious risks?
And then how do you account for losing 30 days of freedom every year due to reservist trainings?
How do you account for the costs if you want to go overseas to study but MINDEF demands a bond of $100k or more to prevent you from evading NS?
Dont tell me about “struggles” of getting PR. I know of someone who got his PR within 4 months of arriving in Singapore.
In short, women and foreigners, dont make me hate you by belittling our NS sacrifices. It is an expensive tax on Singaporean men that you dont want to pay.
sniff sniff… who cares?
To Sinkie,
You are mistaken. The data I’ve presented is taken from HDB website. It’s a comparison of Singaporeans buying NEW HDBs in Punggol vs PRs buying HDB resales in the same Punggol town.
Your $40K grant applies to HDB resales, not for New HDBs.
See: http://www100.hdb.gov.sg/09JULBTOPG_pdf/$file/Punggol_Residences_General_Info.pdf
Kojakbt, thanks, your table is most helpful. The benefits of citizens over PR are marginal, which explains why not many want to convert to citizens.
It’s probably long due for policies change to address the growing discontent here. We all recognize this and I’m positive there will be changes to drive clearer distinction between citizens, PR and foreigners.
Don’t be too optimistic. It’s possible that such discontent will be labeled as xenophobia, which the authorities will group under the same “OB markers” as race and religion issues.
Then, we don’t even get to discuss it anymore. And the always-cooperative mainstream media will quickly divert our attention to “more important” “bread and butter” issues like gambling, sex education, stupid beauty queens, lousy TV shows, fatal road accidents, fallen trees, and the like (as they always do – just flip the papers. It’s little wonder why RWB/RSF ranked Singapore so low on press freedom.)
The authorities will only “engage” us in approved topics and quickly slap those who cross the boundaries. We will warn our children never to discuss race, religion, politics and foreigners.
Soon, everybody is disengaged and apathetic, and they wonder why…
Just like the lack of babies, and they wonder why…
While I agree authorities may try to mitigate the discontentment by “disengaging” the topic, I’m somewhat enable to link this under the same genre as race or religion.
This is bigger. We are simply too pragmatic, monetary-wise, to become disengage or apathetic.
What if you’re forced to be disengaged? Many moons ago, there were idealistic young people who wanted their views to be heard. Several incidents and a couple generations later, all the young people now are only concerned with usually-frivolous issues, many of whom don’t even know the basics of our political system much less the names of their MPs. They were probably influenced by their parents not to tread in “unsafe” waters (like mine did). It’s too late to engage them again.
It’s all about mindset, we do have the option to choose and nobody can force us to think otherwise. How we action, however, requires a more delicate approach.
I believe the younger folks do concern about current affairs in general and it seems the younger they are, the more outspoken they behave. Recently, I had a discussion with a friend about our MPs, we don’t know them well simply because they have not done enough to gain good publicity. So it’s really how you want to position the issue.
These points, however, are off-track from this discussion. I will be happy to share more if anyone can provide a link to a more appropriate forum.
quote
“So, what is the problem in a PR having the same benefits as a citizen. How is it fair for a smarted PR to live a life worse than a dumber Singaporean ??”
Simple, PR = Permanent Resident. NOT Citizen (All brains, talent aside if really smart, can succeed in own country why come here?)
anyway PR in other countries too will have lesser rights than citizens. USA, Canada, China..etc.
Because you are a PR then u will of course have lesser benefits. Want more benefits, then simply give up own citizenship and takeup singapore citizenship.
One have to choose his/her own allegiance.
IF PR his/her allegiance is not singapore but his/her owning country.
If PR have same benefits as citizen then no need citizens liao. If war/shit happens, everyone just fly back to their own countries.
Singapore of course need PRs/foreigners.
Need them to become more singaporeans.
So there must be differences of benefit to PR and Citizens. Enough to entice talented PR/Foreigners to become citizens and not too much to chase them away.
“Do you think your citizenship should be worth a lot more?”
Of course more, We are Man, Man always want more and more.
frm -24yrguy
Hi
Do u guys have problems when u applied leave from bosses who is a PR only. Are we able to report on managers who are not happy when we go on reservists and feel that our performance are not satisfactorily just because we have to go on a 3 week reservists. If we can do that, we could solved alot of issues that Singaporean are facing.
Many Singaporeans are just in denial, living in delusion.
They look down on PRs yet if they are given the opportunity to emigrate to Australia, Canada, US, UK, Scandinavian countries etc. they can’t book a flight out of here fast enough.
to firsttimer,
sounds like my colleagues from Australia, Canada, US, UK, Scandinavian countries etc….wait a minute, can you give me an example of a citizen who doesn’t behave the same?
we look down on PRs? we can’t wait to trade our citizenships with theirs. my friends even joke about “downgrading” from citizen to PR status…
“Note that if you’re single, it would be just $200 per year.”
OMG – if I remain single/childless and don’t buy HDB, I’m just worth $200 more than a PR?! Say I have 50 years of adult life, that’s only $10k, ten bloody K.
I now see my worth. Thanks & OMG.
since when you have to be paid to be happy with your citizenship? sporeans should be grateful to be able to grow up and live in safe and relatively prosperous environment. most PRs come to singapore not solely on better salary potentials but also the promise of a better living environment. I understand the very valid issue of NS requirement for PRs vs citizen- but seems to me the better resolution is to improve the benefits of NS men, not increase the PR vs citizen monetary benefits which i think give false sense of entitlement. After all, female PRs vs female citizens have similar responsibilities, pay same tax but citizens enjoy different benefits already. Those who feels cheated by Spore policy, pls honestly think how you’d feel if you really grew up in neighboring countries… as for PRs who grew up in Spore — well they’re mostly 2nd generation PR, and have to serve NS, so the NS issue is a moot point..
don’t get me wrong – i agree and support citizens having priority in benefits, employment, job retention in tough times, etc. but the resolution shouldn’t be monetary in nature – it’s just fundamentally wrong that a country having to pay its citizen to be contented with their citizenship and not – to quote previous post – “trade down”.. if money is really the issue, citizenship’s >$100k advantage in being able to buy new HDBs plus all the other stuff already mentioned should address it. (If you don’t buy – that’s your own call..)
other options: make voting rights more valuable to citizen by enabling it to bring more real change, and make NS less of a burden to citizens and 2nd generation PRs
michael, i guess the money part is just to illustrate the lack of differentiation in benefits between PRs and citizens.
as citizens, we have “birth rights” (as minister vivian balakrishnan said).
if you have children of your own, would you accord the same rights and benefits to other unrelated children? bring them to your house, feed them, clothe them, play with them, give them the same pocket money and treat them like your own children? maybe you do it because you think they’re cuter, or they can help with your housework.
how would your children feel?
citizens and their forefathers build up the country. we pay taxes and males serve NS. when the crunch comes, we have nowhere else to escape to. we live here and we die here, and despite complaining a lot not many of us quit singapore (or we can’t afford to, whether it’s our skill level or our attachment to this place called home).
so why should foreigners with their easily obtained PR status enjoy similar benefits as citizens? yes, they pay taxes too, but only while they are here, whereas we pay taxes all our life.
100k amortized over many years, split between husband and wife, amounts to not much. the value is actually unrealized for most people since they gotta use the money to buy a new place to stay (unless they quit singapore). PRs can quit Singapore easily as they have a home country to go back to, and i believe most sell their flats for a tidy profit – example: the hong kong PRs during the 1997 years.
by “hong kong PRs”, i meant the PRs from hong kong.
james – i think we agree with the overall objective, but i respectfully beg to differ in the approach. say spore increase the monetary benefit of citizens.. what you’ll have is lower income PRs converting for $$ sake (instead of sense of nationality), while higher income PRs will be indifferent / offended by the larger gap. then more citizens will complain because of relatively less desired PRs (in economic sense) converting to citizen getting same monetary benefits as natural born citizen. i think govt got it right — you want to attract the higher income PRs, let them pay taxes, use the tax to develop spore — even if they leave, those tax$ results remain.. at the same time, the citizens is hardened through stronger competition in workforce, and become better equipped to compete globally. (which i know means tougher life — but hey, sporean don’t have claim to ‘tough life’ compared to most other countries)
again, fundamentally, paying citizen $$ to feel good about citizenship is not right in my view… there are other levers / citizenship benefits – but which frankly some sporeans may have take for granted (taxi license is not one of them 🙂 )
better spend whatever budget govt have to build roads, schools, and other capital assets… 1st generation PR enjoying those assets is small price to pay — spore doesn’t get to where it is being a protectionist economy — 2nd generation will have to do ns, still cant buy new hdb etc. they’ll choose either to convert, or send their son to ns and still not getting citizen benefit or leave, forgoing those capital assets… in return citizen gets better country, low income tax rate… that’s a good deal
To Michael Tan:
> say spore increase the monetary benefit of citizens.. what you’ll have is lower income PRs converting for $$ sake (instead of sense of nationality),
What makes you think we will allow any tom, dick or harry PR to convert to Singapore citizenship? If Singapore citizenship has become so desirable, you will have more choices to choose from.
> while higher income PRs will be indifferent / offended by the larger gap.
HAHA! It’s quite clear that you are completely out of touch with the ground. PRs, being humans, will think of what’s best for themselves and their families first. PRs couldn’t care less about being offended or not. PRs know this is not their country and they are guests. They are least offended by any Govt policies. They know that they are here to work in Singapore because of the strong S$. Minority of them are because they married Singaporeans.
> then more citizens will complain because of relatively less desired PRs (in economic sense) converting to citizen getting same monetary benefits as natural born citizen.
More citizens are complaining now because of PRs getting about the same benefits as Singaporeans, make a mockery out of Singapore citizenships! Singaporeans wouldn’t care if they are less PRs here in Singapore. No Singaporeans ever complained about this in the 80s when at that time there were less PRs….
> i think govt got it right — you want to attract the higher income PRs, let them pay taxes, use the tax to develop spore — even if they leave, those tax$ results remain..
I don’t think any Singaporeans would say no to the need for REAL talents. The issue here is we are getting too much and too fast over a short time. It’s like food. Your body needs food. But when you over-eat and especially eat too much over a short time, your body will suffer.
> at the same time, the citizens is hardened through stronger competition in workforce, and become better equipped to compete globally. (which i know means tougher life — but hey, sporean don’t have claim to ‘tough life’ compared to most other countries)
Most of the so called FTs/PRs here are competing with us on cost. They are the cheap FTs/PRs….
> again, fundamentally, paying citizen $$ to feel good about citizenship is not right in my view… there are other levers / citizenship benefits – but which frankly some sporeans may have take for granted (taxi license is not one of them )
Whatever it is, there is a definite need to give more benefits to Singaporeans…. if PAP wants to stay in power. The sentiment on the ground is very bad, I can tell you. However, PM Lee, in his latest speech, seemed to be saying the fault lay with us…we are raising our expectations too high! So should we be expecting to live our lives like those in the 3rd world countries? HAHAHA!
michael said “i think govt got it right — you want to attract the higher income PRs, let them pay taxes, use the tax to develop spore — even if they leave, those tax$ results remain”
they aren’t paying higher tax rate than citizens, yet they enjoy almost equal benefits. don’t forget we have been and will continue to be paying taxes for much longer than these fair-weather residents. it’s just not fair no matter how you look at it.
turn it around. i bet PRs themselves wouldn’t like it if their country is flooded with new residents who enjoy almost equal benefits as citizens. come to think of it, which other country is as over-zealous as Singapore in attracting “talent”? USA? don’t think so.
has anyone compared benefits of PR in other countries?
michael also said “more citizens will complain because of relatively less desired PRs”
i agree with Kojakbt when he/she said you’re out of touch. we ARE ALREADY attracting subpar PRs who are attracted by those heartlander subsidies (you think the rich will care about MOE schools fees when they don’t even send their kids to public schools?)
more than one-third of the people here are non-citizens. how many are “desired” PRs? i bet the zhang yuan yuan types aren’t even close to being desirable.
>forgoing those capital assets
forgoing? they aren’t forgoing much. afaik, many PR quitters sell their HDB flats for a tidy profit before packing up and going back to retire in comfort.
why should they convert to be citizens when all they care is to exploit the generosity of our FT policy?
thank you for entertaining me people.
it is my kayu policy that made singapore what it is today. i will depart in years not far away and will let my son clear up the mess – if only he is capable of it.
rattle all you want, and we know the fact that no PRs want a lousy singapore citizenship still.
kojabt wrote: “Most of the so called FTs/PRs here are competing with us on cost. They are the cheap FTs/PRs…” –> it’s just semantics.. i can also validly say people in other less developed countries at the same cost of a person in spore have more capabilities. Look – it’s the same issue US is facing with all the outsourcing/off-shoring issues. Raising trade barriers to me not the answer, for US has been benefited from being a free economy in the first place. US just have to move to new areas beyond manufacturing.. look at apple thriving without manufacturing anything(btw, spore benefits from that since apple invest here)
james: capital assets go beyond the HDBs.. roads, public transports, etc etc… those assets supports productivity (ask anybody in india, indonesia how many outside meetings they can go in a day — prob 2) and help keeps spore income tax low.
as for the so-called ‘subpar PRs’ — who do you prefer to take lower income jobs? sporeans or PRs or PRs who turned sporeans cos higher citizenship $$? I’d choose PRs anyday. they can leave if they want, we’ll get newer/ cheaper labor to replace them. remember the chinese athlete who turn citizen, get the prize money and retire in china? to improve citizenship, id rather have govt investing in assets that cant be moved overseas..
anyway, i think i’ve tried to make my points as clear as i can. disagreements are fine, that’s the whole point of open forum like this anyway 🙂
i see your points. let’s drill into the problem of too many subpar PRs. i surmise that they add too little value for the benefits they reap from sg. yes they do the jobs we shun, but can’t we give out more work permits? why should we award PR to subpar workers? they directly compete with born and bred singaporeans in health and education subsidies and their children get the same priority in primary 1 places.
to summarize, my point is that i don’t mind truly talented PRs who make a net positive contribution, but the very apparent problem now is that there are too many subpar PRs now who aren’t worth their permanent residencies.
hehe, wasnt planning to do another post – but suddenly remember two side notes that some may not know:
1) do you know that PRs are not ‘permanent’? you need to have a job to renew every 5 years (in some cases 10)… gov’t actually have gotten a process for taking out free loaders.
2) US have a law (dunno whether federal or states law) that require company to look for comparable citizens before giving a job to foreigners. in the end, most companies just advertise the job role in some obscure newspaper, wait 7 days, then hire the foreigner they want anyway. point is you cant really prohibit companies from doing what’s best for them commercially.. if you do, they make the business decision whether to operate in spore or outside — hence the gov’t philosophy of “let the talent come and compete (and pay tax) than they reside overseas and compete”
one way to address the PR issue: tax companies 50% of that PR/WP monthly salary upon hiring. it guarantees citizen preferential access to jobs, still attract talents (since the PRs don’t pay the tax), small enough that hopefully it doesn’t discourage foreign investors, generate revenue for spore to build better schools, roads for citizens (yes, plus non-permanent PRs) to enjoy.
another fun observation: the increase in PR to citizen ratio can be attributed to one thing: you citizens are lazy in bed!
it’s not that we are lazy, but life’s too tough here to want to bring more suffering. imagine this: both you and your wife are working long hours (gotta fight with PRs), and your parents are busy too, so why would you want to have kids? and a kid’s life here isn’t a bed of roses too.
so it’s a bad cycle. competitive society + generous FT policy => less kids. and less kids => more FTs!
some people say it’ll be better if we’re a less competitive society as a whole. maybe we should give it a try.
gosh – this discussion is addictive…
ya lar – there was a survey once on which asian country has happiest ppl — philipinnes + indon come on top, japanese bot.. ironic, the richer we are, the less happy we become. arguably – life is not ‘tough’ here (i know what you mean by tough – just putting it in a different context),
we – human – tends to take what we have for granted.
i say let the PRs work hard, earn money, then leave.. let’s enjoy 30 min commute (seriously, 30 min is GOOD), 4% effective income tax rate on 52k (spore median income — you’ll get hit up to 30% in some other countries earning that much and getting nothing in return whereas sporean getting good schools, hospitals, etc etc..
why in the world you need 2 incomes in spore.. school is almost free, medical+transport are affordable, retirement is supported by CPF, travel is cheap… condo + continental car are self inflicted wounds. i support your notion of getting less competitive! let’s make babies !
I value some of the points Michael wrote on the approach in his first post.
But sigh…clearly he is “out of touch” in his last few posts and he’s just arguing for the seek of arguing. Could have turned into a more constructive discussion.
Let the flood gates open.
I agree with you. We need talents and the question is how can we get real talents as PR and eventually convert them to citizens.
For every top talent (who really brings sales to Singapore) that we attract, we probably attract loads of cheap, mediocre and lazy PRs like Zhang Yuan Yuan or PHD students who doesn’t generate breakthrough innovations for Singapore.
It doesn’t make sense to bring subpar PRs in to consume our infrastructure, flats, make prices go up and create complexities and reduce productivity.
Instead, why not spend more resources on building the capabilities of Citizens and attracting real talents.
I mean I agree with James in my previous post
UK Home Secretary, has admitted for the first time that the Government has been inept over its handling of immigration which has increased pressure on local jobs and services.
He told an audience at the Royal Society for the Arts in central London: “Whilst I accept that governments of both persuasions, including this one, have been maladroit in their handling of this issue, I do believe that the UK is now far more successful at tackling migration than most of its European and North American neighbours.
He admitted: “There are communities which have been disproportionately affected by immigration, where people have legitimate concerns about the strain that the growth in the local population has placed on jobs and services.”
The comments echo long-standing concerns from some local authorities who say their limited resources, such as housing, education and health, have been severely hit by sudden influxes of large numbers of migrants in to their communities.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/…/Government-maladroit-on-immigration-says-Home-Secretary.html
UNQUOTE
such admission will NEVER happen in singapore.
People are often mentioned Real Talent. Singapore is simply not attractive enough for the really talented. From a technology point of view, certainly not.
In Asia, only 3 countries are technologically advanced [Japan, Korea and Taiwan]. In all these countries, their citizens work the hardest, go to Grad schools. Its not about great innovations but collective efforts which has made them advanced. In contrast, Singaporeans are looking for easy life or want to work only for money . No goal or vision. Maybe too much influenced by the west where a lot of creative/tech stuff is done by immigrants.
This can be seen in all spheres. Tho singapore is a developed country, you do not have decent television or sports. Rightnow, the only incentive in being in Singapore for foreigners is Money or closeness to Indian/Chinese lifestyle.
I simply do not think that PRs or foreginers in Singapore are there for anything other than good life n money. The ones with ambitions , talent and vision can go to better places. The truth is Singapore cannot attract Real talent. And the local population is not talented enough to compete globally.
On a secondary note, you should realize how materialistic Singaporeans are in general. People with far less money have kids in India n China. Even PRs with far less money have kids. Greed for cars, condos, vacations, etc is taking a toll on people in singapore. They are exposed to the good things but cannot have it. This builds the frustration. Instead of appreciating and realizing that they are quite lucky, and how nice Singapore is, the greed n discontent is making them happy.
I love Singapore but do not like the people in Singapore much. Too materialistic and mediocre for my taste.