Among news like a monk and an infidel GP doctor making six-figure income, there’s an interesting piece in ST two days ago – ex-top civil servant Ngiam Tong Dow worries that Singapore is becoming “high cost, low tech”.
“The United States has overtaken Britain because while some of their best went to Wall Street, their best still go into engineering.”
His concern is valid.
In Singapore, the best JC students are attracted by glitzy ads and employment survey reports (see example) glamorizing the banking and finance industry and repeatedly highlighting that top dollars are made there.
For engineers and techies, they only get to hear things like “with a basic degree, you get to wash test tubes”.
Or that engineering and tech talent are a dime a dozen from China and India.
It is no wonder that students die to get into the in-demand courses like business, finance and accounting, while engineering and technology-related courses are dumping grounds.
See my previous posts on getting out of engineering and dead end career.
We all know that techies are undervalued in sunny Singapore. You’re a techie, you make 5k and be happy. Stay happy. Else get out and go to countries like USA, Japan, or even China and Taiwan where tech talent are much more highly valued than over here. Or, get into banking or do a sales job.
So Mr Ngiam worries about the lack of local high-tech talent.
There’s always a simple solution (right?): Start paying top dollars for engineers.
Start with tech-related ministries and agencies like Mindef and MDA. Then, move to tech-related GLCs like Singapore Technologies and JTC.
Pay millions for, say, the Chief Innovator in DSTA and ask the media to cover this ad nauseum (much like the way life sciences were glamorized in the not too distant past).
Hopefully we get to confuse the students again.
202 Comments
hi collin, glad that you made that switch to pursue your dream job. true i’ve many friends who are not doing what they are trained for. better to sacrifice one year for a more relevant course and career henceforth.
in fact, i wouldn’t say you’ve wasted 1 yr of your time cos learning a new skill or knowledge is always handy, you can for example return to IT field not as programmer (and compete with armies of programmer from lower cost countries) but in biz development or govt regulatory fn.
enjoy your student life…the road to success is long but rewarding…
cheers,
mac, nus mba candidate
Hi guys, engineering education is not a waste at all, even that your eventual career path is to be a banker.
I did an engineering degree, and now working as derivatives trading. A handful of my classmates have gone to become pte banker, structurer, risk manager, quant,… thus you can still work in bank with engineering undergrad degree.
Actually thinking back, I will still do engineering as my undergrad degree given its quantitative and analytical training.
I’m still studying engineering in poly, but not doing too well (about average) due to a lack of interest in the field. Assuming money is my main priority and not minding the long working/studying hours, what should my next step be?
Work as a engineer WHILE studying financial stuff? Try to get into a banking course and then into university? Or … ?
Also note that I’m in Engineering Informatics and have modules in Business Information sysems, Project management, etc… would that help towards getting a banking degree?
hi guys, i found this page while i was search for the salary chrats in sg. any way i’m iraqi studying in malaysia and i’m planning to come over to work next year in sg. i’m doing engineering so how is the salary of fresh grad. and is it ok to find a job bcoz i’m foreinger, which one is butter engineering or banking and what’s the requirement to work in these high paid banks
regards
Omar
rats, I think I’m so low paid. Am 34 this year at only 5.5k a mth
today’s newspaper reports sg economy’s financials do not bode well, & engineers are in line for the next wave of retrenchments ?? sing dollar is going up, so our “costs” are going up ????
Mr. Low-paid : Paid 5.5k at 34 considered low paid ? Maybe you like to elaborate….how much time and sacrifice you made at work….At times, it also depend how much you spend — You earn 10k but have 8k expenditure also make you feel poor.
Zhenyi : Go overseas may not be happy. Another very important factor is you work under a capable superior who also take care of his men. I looking for a role model boss or superior who will make me work smart & hard to reach his level of success (money & Lifestyle)
CHeers
hi business degree
how much do sales engineer get these days ??
5.5k gross monthly for slavery dedicated engineer is no good.
Hi Business Degree,
I’m not an engineer. I’m a business analyst.
I wonder how much an engineer of my age makes.
5.5k in my opinion is peanuts.
Very disheartening. 🙁
If I leave engineering field for banking and finance, do I have to take up relevant degree? Because I do not have the relevant knowledge.. i do take up a couple of relevant subject during my uni life.. Pls advise.
Hi Low pay, are u in banking? 5.5K for a BA? Just want to assess the market rate.
Howcome:
I’ve done pretty much those except doubting the effectiveness of linkedin. It’s more of a social career networking site to showcase your career highlights.
angpai:
I’m not in banking. BA is a pretty broad role and it differs from places to places.
So what is the market rate for BA in your domain? If everybody with experience similar to you is paid 5.5k, then you’re not low paid, no?
Hi LowPay, the value of BA is actually project manager cum system analyst with domain knowledge. If your industry is of low margin one such as retail, then 5.5K quite good already.
companies pay their staffers the same compensation, regardless of degree/post, based on seniority, & to maintain equity within the same company. so a 10 year BA will be paid the same as 10 year engineer.
HR manager, I doubt so. You mean if you have programmers with 20 years of experience you’ll pay him the same as your (relatively young) CEO, who has 20 years of managing experience?
I’m not in retail. I’m in the professional services industry. So which is why I think I’m shortchanged. Then again, I don’t have additional certifications apart from my Computing degree.
Am looking to jump ship!
A fantastic Blog with some great inputs! As a non-singaporean engineer, the details’ve come as a surprise to me. Are the salary levels for engineers more or less at par across different sectors, say software/ chemical/ manufacturing? Generally, software tends to be towards the higher side in quite a few countries. Does this hold in Singapore? Also, what would be a decent monthly sal for an expat with 7 yrs of very good R&D software experience? S$ 7K??
Hi eng_in_quandary, r u sure u want to do R&D in Singapore? U notice the title of this thread?
Hi Low-paid, 5.5K not that bad already if your company is a stable, wont close type. Is very much depends on how u save and not how much u earn.
At the end of the day, if one is not satisfied, no matter how high his/her salary is, he/she will not be happy.
I guess I will try to learn to be contented with my meagre pay 🙂
hi angpai
how much should engineer at 34 years be paid ??
Just want to assess the market rate.
Shldn’t it be an engineer with x number of years of experience should be paid how much as opposed to how old right?
If you are 34, I reckoned 8-10 years?
Remember year 2003~2004? when only 77 jobs offered per-month island wide..(base on Jobsdb for Mechanical Engineer)
my batch of friends graduated from NTU Mechanical Engineering will be happy for a 2.2k starting pay.
about 4 yrs latter,Today, imagine your annual increment is about 7%,and some promotion at 10% increment.
You will only get about 3.3k NOW.
I switched to Software field 2 yrs ago, just slightly peanutly better..
engineers are going to be retrenched, what good is there remembering ??
Pay at the end of the day is subjective.
Be happy and live a fulfilling life. 🙂
I’m not gonna be bothered about my low pay anymore.
U bloody fool, people are earning $2000 and they don’t complain… Some are erning less.
my comment just bring out a point where some of the fresh grad said forget about working when pay lesser than 2.4k…
When u cannot find job even first class or dean list also no use..
You try throwing a stone on roadside and an engineer will get hit..
To high-paid : No need to get offensive here. You wanna scold, try looking at the mirror and you can start.
To low paid : Why do I have to look into the mirror and start? My pay is much lower than yours and I don’t complain. It pains me to see pathetic people like you getting a reasonable salary and still pity yourself..
high-paid : My point to you this, this is a professional forum. No need for strong words. Period.
to 5m10y; Thanks for the advice, but I didn’t mention that i was happy with my pay, i just don’t complain. Btw, I’ll explore other avenues..
to low-paid; Sorry for the strong words, wish u all the best in your career.
Hi Serene,
You sure still want to switch to banking sector, looking at the market now thing finance and banking sector is bottom out liao, waiting for the wave to hit singapore only
I chanced to visit this site..I am a mechanical engineer from India, switched to oil and gas software field, worked in SG for 3 years and when I left Sg, was paid 6.5K/month(in 2005). Now in middle east, getting paid 10.4K USD/month.tax free, so definitly more money then Sg, however, I believe, if you specialize in some engineering field, salary and demand is not bad, and chances are that u would get to some leadership role(though, not in manufacturing). My total exp. is 12 years since 4 year degree in engineering. now planning to persue MBA from top 10 universities, to shift from engineering to management..hope this brightens some mechanical engineering aspirants, who might have read all the gloomy news in this page..(and above info. is not to brag or boast, but humble statistics, to encourage young enggs. to persue goals relentlessly).
cheers
No worries I switched from engineering to engineering-investment activities, and pay and recognition and network have all increased exponentially…
Hi! I’m a current EE student in one of the N uni.Took EE out of interest and skills included.
I am completing a dip in acct and finance very soon with maximum scores. Can anyone advise on my career possiblities after i grad?
ece, here’s an advise from an older person. Engieering to Account to Finance – sounds like you’ll be jack of all trades. I have 2 advises. First, 20yrs from now when you look back, you’ll either be in engnieering, or, finance, or neither. You can achieve faster and better if you focus on 1 area, and harness your skills all the way. Second, follow your instinct of what you think you like. You must know your purpose of wanting to do acc or finance. if you are waiting to see what will happen, you are not controlling your destiny, and thus many a times, give up what you like. asked anyone who has worked 20yrs, most if not all will tell you they do things not to their pursuit 20yrs back. Jigs did a great job, he knows what he wants, and pursue it in middle east. I’m sure he has reason to do this MBA, he has made the next plan. An example for all youngster out there.
My key interest definitely is in ECE. I took an acct and finance initially purely to seek improvement for myself. But after hearing the sky rocket pay and seeing how everyone is condemning engineering. Im somewhat demoralized and feel disturbed in the prospect of working in engineering field
ECE, hi again, pls do not be demoralised. If you like what you do, go for it, engineering or finance or whatever. You don’t want to regret doing something you don’t like, even if that means making more monies than what you originally liked. Only 1 life, of course you have to live it happily. And, the bonus is, being happy at what you are doing bring out the passion in your work, and you will like to excel easier.
ECE,
money is not the only factor. its not easy making those kind of money as put across by many here. its misleading. doing what u like is the only sustainable way. its rare to hit the jackpot n run. you are better off betting big or small in the casinos..
I see. Thanks everyone for such insightful advice. Im glad im still in ECE. Im looking forward to study on clean energy and hopefully implement them in Singapore if I have the opportunity…..
ECE,
as fresh graduate, what’s you view on clean energy? since you said it.
I believe the whole concept is viable. A quick look at Australia and their government funding into clean energy certainly tells a lot how clean energy can be implemented without problems. For Singapore, I believe the clear cut solution would be solar. In fact, I still believe it is possible to construct offshore solar farms, although I have no idea why nobody’s doing it. Perhaps due to technical reason?
But in terms of technology , we certainly won’t be seeing any in SG in the near future since govt support and overfocus on its finance has already caused singapore to be light years behind in terms of solar development. you can BUY them off but i reckon without the specialist in it, not much can be done.
I also strongly believe in the whole funding and everything is just a fad. Singapore is getting too pragmatic and abandoning its manufacturing sectors already. I still think that students shld if unfortunately born like me inclined towards engineering get ready to erase all the knowledge and relearn after grad to find a better job.
i guessed much comments have been made on this site. The only crucial factor is to know what you want and follow your strength in order to be competitiveness and be able to climb up in the industry and not just by looking into others of heading into a “financial sector” just because of high returns. one question actually doubts me “In what sense will they wants to hire someone of average they will rather hire someone ie; scholars or very experience skilled people. That why we sometime can see young chap ard the age of 28-30 in bank making profits and because of such generalisation people starts to think the banking is the best. Yeah, but 100 people ppl eventually only a few get enlisted. Hence in overall let focus on the “strength” in our areas.
Eric.
Undergraduate.
Hi Eric,
Hi again, a bit off topic here .Do you happen to be an undergrad in engineering as well?
By the way, I am always having this wonder about how actual engineer do? Is it really outfield all the time, with all guys around?
I’m an ECE grad too, but never as an Engineer. The rule in the real world: Your pay corresponds to how much $ you can bring in to the Co. The more money you bring in, the more you will be paid. As an engineer, your value is lesser as usually you don’t contribute to sales…. and if you can control a portion of the entire sales, then you are in a position to negotiate for more… Also, in choosing a company, you need to consider whether you want to be a Big Fish in a Small Pond or a Small Fish in a Big Pond… i choose to be a Big Fish…
Hi BIG FISH, that is exactly what I thought. I am now looking to working in a bank or a sales engineer. Dun mind can you share with me your profession and some advice on how you got it?
I would say it also depends on the company culture.
I believe that having started as an entrepot trading center, Singapore company culture generally does not value engineering. Such a company would likely be a distributor, a middleman who benefits from volume. The more you sell, the more valuable you are to a company, because ultimately, the product/concept/idea originates from somewhere else.
A lot of private companies in Singapore with R&D facilities have them to take advantage of grants from EDB or IDA, or simply because it makes the company look more attractive to prospective clients. The basic nature of these companies are still manufacturing.
Companies who have R&D need to recognize that the products are made possible by the product planners (those who really come up with the ideas for a product) and engineers who make the product happen. These companies have not got rid of the ‘middleman’ mindset.
Stats used for benchmarking ministrial pay against the top private sector professionals have also shown that top ‘engineers’ earn much less than the lawyers, doctors and accountants. Such is the sad stat of affairs in Singapore.
Hey all, I’m currently with the force and has a BSc in computer sciences, which means I do all the techie stuff at work.
Lets not talk about my pay(which is blatantly on the MINDEF website), as we all went through NS we are always on standby, exercises over weekends, long long working/physical hours and demanding higher ranking officers.
My contract is coming to an end and I’ll be 26/27 by then. What are the odds for me to break into banking and finance? I’ve thought of getting CFA but not really sure if the other industries acknowledge my past years of experience in the force.