115,900 jobs were created last year, but it’s not clear how many of these jobs were taken up by citizens.
As I mentioned previously, it is baffling when we see the term “locals” whenever job and salary statistics are released by the government.
Let me clear the air again: The term “locals” refer to BOTH citizens and permanent residents.
Citizens hold pink NRICs, while PRs hold blue ones. PRs also hold passports from their home countries. They don’t hold the red Singapore passports. To me, the difference between citizens and PRs is big. Very big.
So, why is it unclear how many of the 115,900 jobs went to citizens?
First, look at the Ministry of Manpower’s Labour Market 2010 report (emphasis mine, see press release too):
“In 2010, local employment grew by 56,200… Locals (also known as residents) refer to Singapore citizens and permanent residents.” (Labour Market 2010, bottom of page 3)
It’s also mentioned in the report that total employment growth last year was 115,900. This means about half of the new jobs went to locals. If it has not sunk in yet, let me say one more time: “locals” refer to “both citizens and PRs”.
Now, it appears that even the term “Singaporeans” can include PRs! As reported in ChannelNewsAsia (emphasis mine, see also printed PDF):
“Last year alone, 115,900 jobs were added, with half going to Singaporeans.” (CNA, by S Ramesh/May Wong | Posted: 29 April 2011 2033 hrs)
Singaporeans!? All along, I had always thought Singaporeans refer to citizens, and only citizens. Now, PRs are also called Singaporeans! Do we want to give them voting rights too?
Fortunately, in today’s Straits Times, the less ambiguous term is used, much to my relief:
“Last year, about half of 115,900 new jobs created went to locals.” (ST, page A8, April 30, 2011)
When will we get to see statistics on citizens, and citizens only?
103 Comments
Maybe the only way for Singapore’s workforce (and even total population) to return to near-100% levels of Citizens is if Singapore experiences a really disastrous crisis, such as a lengthy civil war or severe recession/depression, which would FORCE nearly all the Non-Citizens, both PRs and non-PRs, to return to their home countries!
In this way, after nearly 90-100% of Singapore’s population is finally made up of Citizens, as it was until the 1990s (http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html), we can try to put “Humpty Dumpty” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty) together again! LOL
Or else the nursery rhyme will still remain true:
“Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king’s horses and all the king’s men
Couldn’t put Humpty together again.”
Actually they only wanted to publish PR-only statistics cos PRs rule over citizens in this unique island of Singapore, but to give citizens face, they grudgingly include citizens and give the collective group a nice name- locals.
And thanks for telling me something I didn’t know before: now PRs are also known as Singaporeans! How nice. But I want voting rights to be given to PRs too, hopefully by next election.
Why nobody bring this up loud & clear to MOM? PLEASE BREAKDOWN ALL STATISTICS ACCORDING TO CITIZEN, PR & THE REST!
Khagan, we are here talking about the lack of clear statistics on citizens, not about how the employment pie is shared, though that’s also a good discussion topic for some other day.
well, it’s basic maths isn’t it? out of the 115,900 jobs, 56,200 max went to Singapore citizens. as for minimum, i think it’s zero. if the actual number is not revealed, any number from 0 to 56,200 is technically correct.
@NC: Actually, I was trying to answer the author’s question:
“When will we get to see statistics on citizens, and citizens only?”
by INSINUATING that we’ll only get to see such statistics and other truly good reforms (the putting of “Humpty Dumpty” together again) when Singapore becomes nearly entirely made up of Citizens!
As for how that can happen, I honestly can’t think of any realistic way other than Singapore becoming a really UNPLEASANT place for foreigners to live in, to say the least!
(although I did say a bit more when I said “a really disastrous crisis, such as a lengthy civil war or severe recession/depression” *wink*)
Because as long as Singapore remains such an attractive place for foreigners to come here to live and/or work in, more and more foreigners, especially RICH foreigners, will simply keep on coming!
And our Government will simply LET them keep on coming!
@Khagan what’s so hard for the government to break down the statistics into PRs and citizens? and why do you think asking for that is considered an insinuation? I don’t see your logic but maybe I’m daft.
@NC: “why do you think asking for that is considered an insinuation? I don’t see your logic but maybe I’m daft.”
With all due respect, I don’t think you’re daft or that daft! LOL
But I think you probably misunderstood what I said!
I did not think/say/mean/consider that the question, “When will we get to see statistics on citizens, and citizens only?”, was an insinuation.
It was *I/me/yours truly* who was insinuating “that we’ll only get to see such statistics and other truly good reforms (the putting of “Humpty Dumpty” together again) when Singapore becomes nearly entirely made up of Citizens!”
But if you still don’t see my logic, then I might have to agree with you that “maybe” you’re “daft”! LOL
@NC: “what’s so hard for the government to break down the statistics into PRs and citizens?”
It’s not hard! LOL
But actually, whether it’s hard or not is not the point…
Okay, I might as well say more, instead of saying the least! LOL
And I apologize in advance for this LONG comment! LOL
The reality in Singapore has been the same for decades since our so-called “Independence” in 1965, i.e. ALL the lower and middle class Singaporeans were/are/will always be the SLAVES of the Upper-class Singaporeans and their rich and powerful foreign friends from all around the world, especially those from the US, the UK, Australia, and China/Hong Kong, whose embassies happen to be located just beside our Ministry of Foreign Affairs… coincidence? I doubt it!
Basically, all upper-class Singaporeans (as well as any upper-class group of people in any country) have always been the same in terms of character, i.e. they’re greedy for Power, Possessions, and Pleasure, and they want to MAXIMIZE those 3 Ps until they die!
So if that requires Brainwashing/Bullying/Bribing (the 3 Bs) lower/middle-class Singaporeans into accepting a miserable life (or even thinking that it’s “good”), or at least not being able to overcome it as long as they’re living in Singapore, these Upper-class Singaporeans WILL do it!
Singapore is primarily a financial/banking/trading/shipping centre for foreigners to MAKE MONEY in, just as it has always been since the 19th century after the British and other European powers started colonizing (which is actually enslaving in disguise) nearly the whole of East Asia!
Most Permanent Residents are here because of their jobs and the money their jobs pay, or here because they’re simply filthy rich and want to protect their riches and their lives in one of the safest countries in the world (the fact that Singapore is even a city and an island makes it even more attractive!), NOT because of any attractive Singaporean “culture” (such as, say, Japan’s, which is my favourite culture in the world, although it’s not perfect).
And of course, most foreigners would want to obtain a “Permanent Resident” status to give them that sense of security and stability, while retaining their non-Singaporean nationalities so that whenever they return to their home countries for vacation, they can enjoy certain privileges as Citizens of their home countries… they simply want the best of both worlds, and be treated like kings/queens in both worlds!
They probably can’t be bothered if they’re not Citizens of Singapore, but they wouldn’t mind being called “locals” or “Singaporeans” sometimes since they like to be honoured in that way sometimes, and our Government also likes to honour them to curry favour with them!
BUT, as soon as these Permanent Residents start sensing that Singapore is no longer a place worth living in for most of the remainder of their lives, they’ll just take out all their money from Singapore and return to their home countries or some other country; just as they would renounce their citizenships in their home countries should they become unwelcome there as well.
Even most/all of the Upper-class Singapore Citizens would flee from this island, as well as a large portion of the middle class!
So, if Singapore Citizens, i.e. those born and brought up here since before 1990, REALLY want themselves to make up nearly 100% of the population again, I can’t think of any other PRAGMATIC and EFFECTIVE solution than:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_resistance
such as Gandhi’s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha
In order for it to work in Singapore, it requires the CONSISTENT CO-OPERATION of at least a LARGE MINORITY, say, 10% of the roughly 2.3 million eligible voters, which is roughly 230,000 adult Singaporeans!
So that even all the prisons and hospitals combined won’t/can’t have enough space to accommodate all these protesters!
But are Singaporeans LIKELY to practise such things in Singapore, let alone co-operate and be ORGANIZED?
Unfortunately, after a half-century of the above-mentioned 3 Bs – Brainwashing, Bullying, Bribery – the EXTREMELY HUGE majority of Singaporeans are simply “KIASEE” cowards, who are afraid to die, which is what “kiasee” exactly means and which is why they’re all slaves, knowingly/willingly or unknowingly/unwillingly!
At this rate, how can the PAP ever be ousted from power?
PAP – People’s Action Party or Power Against People?
Singapore, as the name suggests, is a city/country founded on SIN!!!
The 3 fundamental sins of:
1. PRIDE – also known as arrogance or hubris, and basically, the desire to have/maintain POWER over as many people as possible.
2. GREED – the desire to own as much POSSESSIONS as possible, not just money.
3. LUST – the desire for as much PLEASURE as possible, especially sexual pleasure.
The desire for the 3 Ps!
(as I mentioned earlier)
Singaporeans, and not just the Government of Singapore, need to “wake up”, so to speak, and REPENT, before it’s too late!
And if my fantasy really comes true, Singapore would return to its REAL roots of being a fishing/farming village/town/kampong with a population of way below a hundred thousand and not over a million, let alone 5 million!
100,000 Singaporeans would not be 1950s/60s kampong-levels, but PRE-Raffles/19thCentury levels!
And I can’t help pointing out, as I’ve done elsewhere on the internet, that contrary to popular belief and/or government-brainwashing, Singapore DOES have natural resources!
It just doesn’t have enough for 3 million “locals”, let alone 5 million people from all over the world!
As you can see from this list on wikipedia:
List of countries by real population density (based on food growing capacity)
http://tinyurl.com/9ucdxg
Singapore’s real population density is simply too ridiculously high, WAY ABOVE the 2nd-placed Hong Kong, and both of them are just INCREDIBLY well above any other country in the world!
So, since most countries have a real population density of way below 10,000 per km² of ARABLE land, and Singapore has only 10 km² of ARABLE land, I think a hundred thousand total people should be the maximum number of people allowed to inhabit this small island, which is less than half the size of Greater London, if I remember correctly!
Though I agree that the place is pretty crowded, I still don’t understand the big hoo haa about the foreigner.vs. local vs pr.
I’d never *hope* or want to have a prolonged crisis in this state (any state) because that would remove all jobs effectively.
If you want all foreigners to go out, just imagine what’d happen without all the domestic helpers who brings up the future singaporeans, workers who build the homes, clean estates, drive & even protect the top (Gurkha)
Also it has to be mutual, so as per the feedback above all Singaporean companies must withdraw from overseas. Close Changi, PSA, downsize telecom firms, and ST because all are surviving all foreign businesses.
Seems this is the situation people are looking for..
@So called foreigner: “I still don’t understand the big hoo haa about the foreigner.vs. local vs pr.”
Why don’t you? LOL
Isn’t it quite simple?
The hoo-ha is simply that we Singapore Citizens, i.e. those who were born and brought up in Singapore before 1990, are feeling marginalized/betrayed by our Government for giving preferential treatment to foreigners!
“I’d never *hope* or want to have a prolonged crisis in this state (any state) because that would remove all jobs effectively.”
Neither would I, but I wouldn’t say that ALL jobs would be removed, but only some/many of them, which would be unnecessary/unimportant jobs anyway for BASIC SURVIVAL!
“just imagine what’d happen without all the domestic helpers who brings up the future singaporeans”
Obviously, MOTHERS would have to come to their senses are become full-time housewives/mothers, which is their ONLY rightful/proper duty/job/career in the first place! Otherwise, is there any other TRULY good reason for becoming WIVES/MOTHERS?
“workers who build the homes”
Obviously again, there wouldn’t be any need for them since if Singapore’s population drops from 5 to 3 million, there’ll be tons of vacant homes, so there wouldn’t be any more need to build more homes, would there?
“clean estates”
Well, if Singaporeans come to their senses, they’ll obviously co-operate and clean their own estates together, wouldn’t they?
“drive & even protect the top (Gurkha)”
The so-called “top” or Upper-class Singaporeans, especially high-ranking Government “Ministers” and Civil “Servants” will have to learn to TRULY humble themselves like SERVANTS and drive their own cars and protect themselves by themselves! LOL
“Also it has to be mutual, so as per the feedback above all Singaporean companies must withdraw from overseas.”
I totally agree! *thumbs up*
People all over the world should simply be contented with what they have in their home countries and not be greedy, and should co-operate with one another to live harmoniously with one another, and the world would become a better and happier place! 🙂
I know that sounds too idealistic and unlikely to happen, but that should still be a good ideal, I think!
“Seems this is the situation people are looking for..”
I would say only a TINY minority of people, or possibly only myself! LOL
Comment #9 reminds me of an old politician. When asked about minister pay, he said something like: “are you saying ministers have to be poor?”
Goodness. We are not asking to kick out ALL foreigners. In fact we need the construction workers, the domestic Hellers and many in the lower end jobs. These are jobs that most Singaporeans shun. However, when companies like Merrill Lynch hires Indian programmers with only 3 years experience for 8k a month, I would like to know if they have even interviewed local programmers. Or is it a case that they conveniently filled the positions with people of their own kind because the decision makers are Indians and they have established enclaves in the companies? Have S’porean become the minority in our own country?
I meant “helpers”, not “Hellers”. Sorry for the typo.
@Keith: “Comment #9 reminds me of an old politician.”
I think you meant the comment by “So called foreigner” because the comment #9 that I’m seeing now is my own, which I posted about an hour before “So called foreigner”‘s comment, but it’s still “awaiting moderation”…
By the way, I meant to say “MOTHERS would have to come to their senses AND become full-time housewives/mothers”; for some reason, I typed “are” instead of “and”! LOL
Also, when I said “we Singapore Citizens, i.e. those who were born and brought up in Singapore before 1990, are feeling marginalized/betrayed by our Government”, I forgot to add “(or at least MOST of us, I feel)” beside “Singapore Citizens”.
@Khagan i stand corrected.
Are you sure permanent residents are also called Singaporeans? Might as well give them a pink IC and red passport.
Thanks for the healthy discussion and some good pointers. The perspective is always different when one sees from their own.
If were to stick to the post topic, I’d certainly agree that any agency should give as detailed stats as possible. But for the comment” that citizens are marginalized or not prioritized” I tend to humbly disagree. Here there is a difference ( be it in the housing policies, medical, schooling) but in many other countries there is no such distinction and all residents are treated the same.
Having said that, I might have missed specific areas which I’ve not experienced a prioritized treatment.
I’m not sure about the differences in PR and citizen in other developed countries – but in Singapore, the males gave up 2.5 (now 2) years of their prime to do national service, and continue to get called up for reservist training for the next 10+ years. A PR has no such obligation.
Moreover, for other developed countries, there are stringent criteria for permanent residency. This is unlike in Singapore where people like Zhang Yuan Yuan – who holds a CERT from a PRIVATE SCHOOL here – applied and got her PR in 2 months! Someone in another forum said PR is dished out like toilet paper, and I fully agree.
Citizenship is worse than toilet paper.
I hold a US green card. Am I called an “American”?
Just to add on to my comment in which I mentioned “PAP – People’s Action Party or Power Against People?”, I just want to say that although I’m obviously not a big fan of PAP, neither am I a supporter of any other party.
But I do agree with this particular point that a certain Workers’ Party candidate said in this news article:
GE: WP candidate highlights social costs of foreign workers
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1126135/1/.html
[quote]Mr Chong also lamented on Singapore becoming a place for wealthy people.
“Playground for the rich and famous around the world. Singapore today has been transformed into a place for the rich and famous. A world-class infrastructure for the rich, a world-class hospital to treat the rich, a world-class university to school the rich man’s children.”[/quote]
Khagan,
“Maybe the only way for Singapore’s workforce (and even total population) to return to near-100% levels of Citizens is if Singapore experiences a really disastrous crisis, such as a lengthy civil war or severe recession/depression, which would FORCE nearly all the Non-Citizens, both PRs and non-PRs, to return to their home countries!”
Are you sure if that happen, Singaporeans wouldn’t leave too, and migrate to somewhere else like Australia/New Zealand/Canada/USA/UK?
“Obviously, MOTHERS would have to come to their senses are become full-time housewives/mothers, which is their ONLY rightful/proper duty/job/career in the first place! Otherwise, is there any other TRULY good reason for becoming WIVES/MOTHERS?”
I, as a feminist, have to point out that this kind of thinking is sexist, unfair and unreasonable to all womankind, especially in this era. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should absolutely apologize to all womankind.
Without foreign labor AND female workers (HALF of the population), do you think the economy will survive?
Without domestic helpers, are you sure women will return to be full-time housewives? Being a “part-time housewife” is already stressful enough for many women today. Don’t you think it’s unfair that men do not have the same requirement to be “part-time househusbands”? The way things go, without domestic helpers, more women might just choose not to be a mother/wife at all. And hence the depleting population of Singapore.
@CK: “Are you sure if that happen, Singaporeans wouldn’t leave too, and migrate to somewhere else like Australia/New Zealand/Canada/USA/UK?”
No, I’m not sure, and I never said that I was sure “Singaporeans wouldn’t leave too”.
Maybe you haven’t read my later comment (http://www.salary.sg/2011/115900-jobs-created-how-many-went-to-citizens/#comment-11574), but in it, I did mention:
1. “Even most/all of the Upper-class Singapore Citizens would flee from this island, as well as a large portion of the middle class!”
2. “And if my fantasy really comes true, Singapore would return to its REAL roots of being a fishing/farming village/town/kampong with a population of way below a hundred thousand and not over a million, let alone 5 million!”
Simply because its population will be SEVERELY reduced by various factors that would be caused by the possible chaos and poverty resulting from rampant inflation and shortage of food, i.e. mass emigration out of Singapore, murders, suicides, death from starvation/malnutrition/sickness/old age, etc.
But in the end, after the chaos ends, life would become simpler and more carefree, and therefore, happier, in my opinion!
“I, as a feminist, have to point out that this kind of thinking is sexist, unfair and unreasonable to all womankind, especially in this era. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should absolutely apologize to all womankind.”
I would, if you can get God to do it too! LOL
Or maybe you’re an Atheist?
Or maybe you think God is also a “feminist”? LOL
In any case, if anyone wishes to learn about the anti-feminist position, here’s a good article to start at:
Ten Lies of Feminism
http://bible.org/article/ten-lies-feminism
It’s even written by a WOMAN, who obviously hates feminism!
“Without foreign labor AND female workers (HALF of the population), do you think the economy will survive?”
Not the CURRENT economy, but the economy of a Singapore with a population of not more than a hundred thousand people would be able to survive on the 10 km² of ARABLE land that we have.
Singapore is a tropical island-country, so it is rich in fishes and fruits, but it only has 10 km² of arable land, enough for maybe a hundred thousand people, or 1,000 large extended families of 100 members each spread out around the 700 km² of land that Singapore has.
10 km² = 10 x 1km x 1km = 10 x 1,000m x 1,000m = 10,000,000 m² = 1,000 hectares
So if each family is apportioned one hectare of arable land, I think that should be more than enough for it to survive comfortably on.
1 hectare = 100m x 100m
I think that should be enough arable land for a family of 100 people.
As for their housing, they would be built OUTSIDE the arable land.
“Without domestic helpers, are you sure women will return to be full-time housewives?”
Uh, obviously?
Otherwise, who is going to look after their children and do the household chores?
Or maybe all husbands should become full-time househusbands, and let their wives slog outside the house doing whatever they want to do? LOL
“Don’t you think it’s unfair that men do not have the same requirement to be “part-time househusbands”?”
Don’t you think it’s unfair that women do not have the same requirement to be conscripted into the military to do “National Service” or, rather, slavery?
Don’t you think it’s unfair that women are simply not treated in the same way as men are in the working world?
If you’re experienced enough, isn’t it obvious that men are treated differently by their superiors (regardless of whether their superiors are men or women) compared to women?
I would agree with you about all the so-called “unfairness” you can think of between men and women, IF both men and women are MADE equally, with equal anatomies and equal physical strength, not to mention equal intelligence! LOL
But since men and women are made UNequally and DIFFERENTLY, common sense dictates that men and women should/must have UNequal and DIFFERENT roles and duties in order for TRUE economy (which comes from the Greek word, “oikonomia”, which means “domestic management”; and “oikonomia” is made up of “oikos” (house) + “nomia”, which comes from “nemein”, meaning “to manage”) to succeed.
“The way things go, without domestic helpers, more women might just choose not to be a mother/wife at all.”
Then so be it!
If women CAN’T be good full-time humble housewives/mothers, then they SHOULDN’T!
Unless you’re implying that it’s not necessary for women to be housewives/mothers who are good and humble, and that they should just go ahead and marry and produce children, and directly/indirectly cause their own children to REBEL against them when they’re older and when they realize how little time and effort their mothers have spent towards them to ACTUALLY love and care for them?
Or if you’re confident that bribing children with money and material pleasures will prevent them from rebelling, then all I can is “Good Luck!” LOL
“And hence the depleting population of Singapore.”
Which is a GOOD thing!
Singapore has been SEVERELY overpopulated since the 1950s/60s anyway, even at 1-2 million; what more now when it’s over 5 million!?!?!
good time for the post. cash on sentiments. singaporeans need all the support in finding, retaining jobs. to make sure they can be productive, cheap labor shd be hired for blue collar jobs and maids etc. such people can be made to work like dogs so they can live nicely when they go back home. this is important so that singaporeans can live nicely and create the population we need.
with the talent we have, we shd be able to fill all talent jobs, retain MNCs in singapore and what not.
Site Owner,
Do you have the detailed breakdown?
Statistics or data that shows the Jobs created, destroyed by Sector, Industry, Age Group, Income level?
How about more details of how many SG, im talking about Singaporeans not PR, are being displaced by Foreign Talents (PRs, Pass Holders n whoever else that is non SG borne)
I think these are very interesting data that our leaders should show n reveal. Nothing too scandalous nor malicious since its all facts n figures.
Can anyone share?
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/keyind.html
PR population increased 1.5% to ~541K in 2010. Assuming all our new PRs got new jobs (~8000), that means approximately 48000 jobs went to Singaporean citizens.
The growth in the number of PRs (8000) is actually quite reasonable. I think the main gripe is the number of foreigners getting jobs rather than PRs.
The main gripe is the lumping of citizens with PRs in jobs and wages data. The lumping has always been the case if you haven’t noticed. Surely there is a lack of transparency.
Just assume all PRs are working and then get an estimate. It will give u the minimum number of Singaporeans who got a job. By treating PRs as local residents, the govt is not doing anything bad. Why shd PRs be clubbed with foreigners.
cos PRs ARE foreigners!
It’s not a matter of good or bad. It’s a matter of giving a complete picture, a matter of transparency, if you like.
PM Lee says sorry! But he did not apologize for the huge influx of foreign talent who compete for high paying jobs like the Merril lynch jobs mentioned in a comment above. For 8k/mth and requiring 3 yrs experience and maybe specific skills (what I heard is that web services experience is in demand), qualified singaporeans will be queueing up to take the job. Did that bank even advertise the position to singaporeans?
the latest govt URA plans for Singapore, released in Apr this year, is based on the population size of 6.5 million. We still have some way to go to catch up with this target
it’s clearly obvious the Opposition is made up of
1. Disgruntled older workers who have been “replaced” by foreign talents
2. Idealistic young voters who’ve watched a lot of TV or studied overseas and want Democracy for the Sake of it. They love to argue about everything and insist they are right.
Think of your children’s future. Vote wisely for the party with the track record.
it’s clearly obvious with the anticipated increase in singapore’s population to 6.5 million, we have plenty to worry for our children’s future.
If 48k of the 115900 new jobs went to citizens, that’s only 41%. Out of entire 5m+ population, proportion of citizens is 64%. We are the majority and yet less than half of the jobs went to us, so is this fair? Foreigners create jobs for us or for themselves? Is anyone going to say sorry?
Hold on one second! Around 50% of job adverts require Singaporean or PR only, so I’ll take it that none of this argument applies to those on work passes and EPs, as they can’t get 50% of the jobs.
So if half of all jobs advertised and Singaporeans “can’t” get a job, there must be something wrong with that Singaporean.
Secondly, if you hate foreigners so much then why don’t you invent a new language? Because I’d hate to break it to you, but the two official languages here are in fact ‘foreign’….
Thirdly, the poster who said a coffee shop uncle was pushed out by a young FT? Well, I hate to break it to you too, but thats natural and the problem you should be looking at is why the uncle still has to work at such an age and not why a young person (FT or otherwise) took his job.
If this idiotic and racist and backward view is adopted by all Singaporeans, well, I’d hate to break it to you, but you won’t have this ‘foreigner’ problem in twenty years time, nor would you have the competitiveness to compete on a global stage.
Luckily for Singapore, this anti foreigner sentiment hasn’t reached the global stage yet nor do all Singaporeans think in this narrow minded way…Would love to hear your sentiments when all the MNCs pull out and nobody is buying your 150 dollar chili crabs and no more taxes from foreigners.. Better yet, why don’t you complain about the Malaysians that are here, and cut all ties with them? Don’t forget to cut the water they’re supplying you with aswell..
Singapore can only move forward as a dynamic and multicultural city.. Racist hate only leads to one thing.
@Wait a second!:
“So if half of all jobs advertised and Singaporeans “can’t” get a job, there must be something wrong with that Singaporean.”
No, there’s something wrong with YOUR logic!
Simply because you’re ASSUMING that the number of jobs advertised for “Singaporean or PR only” is equal to the number of Singaporeans SEEKING for jobs!
That’s obviously not the case because there are MANY MORE Singaporeans seeking for jobs than the total number of jobs advertised for “Singaporean or PR only”, regardless of whether it’s 50% or 30% or 70% of all job ads!
Besides, not all jobs advertised are suitable for ANYBODY, so that makes it even harder for many Singaporeans to get a suitable job for themselves since they’ll have to COMPETE with MANY others for the jobs that suit them!
And obviously, there’ll be losers, no matter how hard they try!
So how can these losers ever get a suitable job for themselves?
Will they just have to settle for UNsuitable jobs?
If yes, then that’s just slavery!
Furthermore, why should the other 50% of jobs advertised even be given to “those on work passes and EPs” in the first place, when not all Singaporeans have managed to secure a suitable job for themselves yet?
“if you hate foreigners so much then why don’t you invent a new language?”
Actually, we do already have our own “language”; it’s called Singlish! LOL
“Because I’d hate to break it to you, but the two official languages here are in fact ‘foreign’….”
Why do you hate to break it to us? LOL
Are you afraid it would hurt our feelings? LOL
Maybe some other Singaporeans might get hurt, but I won’t! LOL
Firstly, there are 4 official languages (English, Mandarin Chinese, Malay, Tamil) in Singapore, not 2.
And if you’re referring to English, maybe it’s my turn to “hate to break it to you” (LOL) that English was IMPOSED on us East Asians by the British, followed by the PAP for decades after our so-called “Independence” in 1965 (and I say “so-called” because Singapore is obviously still DEPENDENT on so many things from OUTSIDE Singapore, to say the least!).
So the very fact that we were FORCED to learn (and even excel in) a foreign language, to the point of neglecting our native tongues, makes many of us hate foreigners (but usually the Anglo-Saxons, i.e. the White British/Americans) even more!
But the languages of Chinese, Malay and Tamil are a different issue, because those generations of Chinese and Indians, who migrated to Singapore from southern China and southern India before World War 2, managed to INTEGRATE with the indigenous Malays, something which most foreigners (both PRs and non-PRs, making up nearly 2 million of the 5 million people here now) have FAILED to do, simply because TOO MANY of them have migrated here within the past 2 decades!
“the problem you should be looking at is why the uncle still has to work at such an age”
What on earth are you talking about?!?!?
Are you not aware of the existence of poor people, even if they’re old or at retirement age?
They need to find some way to earn a living too, don’t they?
“If this idiotic and racist and backward view is adopted by all Singaporeans…”
that could/would be a good thing, in my opinion! LOL
“…well, I’d hate to break it to you, but you won’t have this ‘foreigner’ problem in twenty years time”
Huh?!?!? But “this ‘foreigner’ problem” is precisely what we do NOT want!
So why are you “hating to break it” to us? LOL
“nor would you have the competitiveness to compete on a global stage.”
It’s only the Upper-Class Singaporeans, who are a very small minority of Singaporeans, who want this “competitiveness to compete on a global stage”.
Most Singaporeans, i.e. the middle and lower classes, are more concerned about simply being able to earn a living and surviving in a peaceful, uncrowded, non-overpopulated country, so this is one “competition” I doubt most of us would be bothered by if we lose!
“Would love to hear your sentiments when all the MNCs pull out and nobody is buying your 150 dollar chili crabs and no more taxes from foreigners”
My sentiments = “HOORAY!!! Now we can begin repairing the psychological damage caused by greed and overpopulation!”
“why don’t you complain about the Malaysians that are here, and cut all ties with them?”
Because most of the “Malaysians that are here” have the same background as most Singaporeans, i.e. they/we are mostly descendants of the Chinese from southern China, who have been living in Malaya (of which Singapore was a part until the 20th century) since before Singapore’s “Indepence” in 1965 or even earlier, i.e. before World War 2 or even BEFORE the 20th century!
So our ties with the Malaysians are much closer and stronger and, I dare say, even obviously NECESSARY!
Much more than any ties with foreigners from outside the Malay Archipelago, especially if they’re even from outside Asia!
“Singapore can only move forward as a dynamic and multicultural city..”
I’m not sure what you mean by “dynamic”, but you might want to be aware that Singapore could also move towards CIVIL WAR!!!
We Singaporeans are also human beings, and there are limits to our patience and long-suffering!
“Racist hate only leads to one thing.”
That’s where you have misunderstood the issue!
We Singaporeans do not hate any particular race; we just want those races who have been living here since before the 1990s to live harmoniously with one another, and want the massive immigration into this tiny island for the past 2 decades to STOP!!!
Just in case anyone is still not aware of how physically small Singapore is, its land area is only around 700 km2, LESS than HALF the size of London!
Furthermore, Singapore’s land area is less than 1% of Norway’s and New Zealand’s, and yet our population of 5 million is slightly more than theirs!?!?!
@Khagan
What I’m saying is Singaporeans have a marked advantage in seeking jobs, so getting rid of foreigners (the way YOU want i.e. go back to the 1970’s) still won’t give you 100% Singaporean employment.. especially not when there is zero foreign investment here, no CBD, no Marina Bay, no anything.
I accept your point on the need for integration, which takes time, but you are in favour of mass culling and getting rid of the 2 million right here right now..which can’t be done
Also I understand the National Service issue, but that’s something the government has to change, not the foreigners fault. Maybe require foreigners to enlist, or perhaps get rid of the NS altogether, because the army wouldn’t stand a chance against any real army… but other countries will protect Singapore because they have a vested interest… actually wait, you want that business interest to go away right? and go back to the Kampong era? good luck defending yourselves..
/“If this idiotic and racist and backward view is adopted by all Singaporeans…”
that could/would be a good thing, in my opinion! LOL
/
A good thing? really?
“If this idiotic and racist and backward view is adopted by all Singaporeans…”
that could/would be a good thing, in my opinion! LOL
Why do you sound like some old minister who believes in either you want something or you are totally against it. We are not against having foreigners. But we are asking for a more level playing field for Singaporeans. You probably can’t tell if you are a foreigner, the field now tilts toward foreigners. Singapore males already lose out with the Reservist liability. Imagine you are a hiring manager considering a good foreign candidate and an equally good local male who needs to serve army a couple times a year, though you may not explicitly state the reason, you will give the job to the foreign guy. And more so if you come from the same country, right? Enclaves are another problem.
In short, our government is too pro-foreigners. Overly pro-foreigners. That’s why citizens are angry.
@Calculate
The way I see it is that there is growing hate for those on ‘lowly’ jobs who are foreigners -e.g. the Chinese coffee shop aunty/the Indian guy on the construction site.
There is also a growing hate for the foreign IT guy who is earning 8k per month.
I have also heard people complain about the PEMT foreigners.
That covers all three spectrums.. Every developed country has a healthy dose of foreigners. Yes, I agree the foreigners situtation needs to be controlled, but most of the comments I hear refer to the foreign ‘problem’..
It is the country’s policies that need to be changed.
How about a levy on foreigner’s passes. E.g. or a company to apply for a pass, it costs them 2000SGD..so if that foreigner is worth it, then give it to them. Higher taxes on a PR’s income maybe?
How about voting to get rid of the NS? Is it necessary? The army may protect you from Barbaric villagers, but against a real army? NO chance whatsoever.
Contrary to popular belief here, voting can change the pro-foreigner situation. But I can guarantee the PAP will win again, and again and again..Not that I follow politics, but because Singaporeans are not known for their revolutionary properties.
I don’t want a pro-foreigner government, nor do I want an anti-foreigner population..
We ARE against overly pro-foreigner POLICIES. I have good friends who are foreigners, nothing against them. If I’m from Burma or India, I would also come here to eke out a good living.
I like your suggestion on increasing the levy. Though our prime minister has apologized, I’m not sure if he’s willing to listen to such suggestions. That’s why I’m hoping the ruling party’s vote share drop drastically to wake them up from the deep slumber. At least we still have a fair and transparent voting system here.
The Singapore government prefers to groom foreign students than our own children:
http://www.mycarforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2663008
@Wait a second!:
“getting rid of foreigners (the way YOU want i.e. go back to the 1970’s)”
Actually, if you’ve been reading all my comments carefully, such as:
http://www.salary.sg/2011/115900-jobs-created-how-many-went-to-citizens/#comment-11574
I did mention my fantasy of Singapore returning to:
“its REAL roots of being a fishing/farming village/town/kampong with a population of way below a hundred thousand and not over a million, let alone 5 million!
100,000 Singaporeans would not be 1950s/60s kampong-levels, but PRE-Raffles/19thCentury levels!”
So obviously, I do NOT want Singapore’s population to return only to 1970s levels, i.e. 2+ million, when Singapore was already VERY overpopulated even back then!
“still won’t give you 100% Singaporean employment..”
That’s simply not true!
Singaporeans would still find things to do, regardless of whether it earns them MONEY, which is not necessary for survival in a fishing/farming village/kampong anyway!
What’s necessary for basic survival is simply hard work in FARMING!!!
“especially not when there is zero foreign investment here, no CBD, no Marina Bay”
I would say, “Good riddance to Bad rubbish!” 🙂
“no anything.”
Yet another false statement, and you should know it!
Unless you mean no opportunity to MAKE LOTS OF MONEY to satisfy greedy people’s GREED!!!
“you are in favour of mass culling and getting rid of the 2 million right here right now..which can’t be done”
Oh yes, it CAN!
It’s just NOT LIKELY in the NEAR FUTURE!
Or to be more precise, it’s something that WON’T be done, not can’t.
“you want that business interest to go away right? and go back to the Kampong era? good luck defending yourselves..”
IF Singapore really becomes a REAL kampong with a population of less than 100,000, why would anyone want to invade Singapore?
The trend would be for people to LEAVE Singapore! LOL
And since Singapore has so few natural resources, what’s there to STEAL? LOL
And if there’s hardly anything to steal, what need is there to defend our island? LOL
In fact, if we can successfully manage to become a real kampong again, we would have ironically managed to not just expel all the present foreigners, we would even have managed to defend ourselves from future invasions by foreigners simply by the fact that we’re a “worthless” tiny piece of KAMPONG! LOL
@Calculate Thanks for the insights and educated comments
@Khagan
Why was Singapore occupied in the first place? Strategic Location?
With your way of thinking, you are more foreign than most here. You can leave ‘your’ Singapore and go work on a farm somewhere else (no offence against farming), doesn’t even have to be in Singapore. In fact you should run for government, and the aim of your party? ‘Getting Singapore back to Kampong days’ and see how long that lasts.
“Why was Singapore occupied in the first place? Strategic Location?”
I’m not sure, but I suspect it was because of a basic need for survival (or to escape from some persecution in other places), not greed, let alone money/currency of any form, which didn’t even exist in Singapore back then; and I’m referring to the VERY FIRST inhabitants of Singapore (possibly nearly two thousand years ago), way before Raffles was even born!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_history_of_Singapore
“With your way of thinking, you are more foreign than most here.”
Ironically, I feel that way too! LOL
Despite being born, brought up and spending most of my life so far on this island!
But on the other hand, I also feel that most Singaporeans (and not just the 2 million foreigners, including the PRs!) are like foreigners or foreign to me! LOL
Simply because most Singaporeans have your way of thinking, i.e. a philosophy based on an ANTI-Kampong/Farming spirit and a PRO-Money spirit!
In my opinion, a true Singaporean should be one who’s attached to the very land of Singapore, and who would rather die than sell his/her soul/body to become a slave, in return for money (which is also a foreign thing!) and power/possessions/pleasure!
He/she should also rather die than leave Singapore for whatever reason, be it overseas pleasure trips (a.k.a. “holidays”) or because of some imperfection in Singapore, to say the least!
There is no perfect country in the world, so people should just be contented with their lot in life, and bear with their sufferings, which are only temporary because they end at death!
“You can leave ‘your’ Singapore”
Since Singapore is mine, why should I leave it? LOL
I love staying in Singapore, although I hate the so-called Government! LOL
“and go work on a farm somewhere else (no offence against farming)”
The only farm I would work on is one that is not OWNED by anyone, not even myself!
Unfortunately, all the 10 km² of arable land that Singapore is owned either by the so-called Government or by some private company or family, and I refuse to be a slave and work on any farm in return for money!
“doesn’t even have to be in Singapore.”
But I don’t want to leave Singapore!
I want to stay in Singapore until I die, no matter WHAT happens!
“In fact you should run for government, and the aim of your party? ‘Getting Singapore back to Kampong days’ and see how long that lasts.”
It’s precisely because I’m aware that I’ll probably have ZERO support that I won’t waste my time and energy to become a politician! LOL
I would basically be asking people to stop having faith in the Singapore Dollar or any other fiat paper currency, and to begin living a life in Singapore without any kind of monetary system, and to learn farming and become farmers until death! LOL
Who would support me? LOL
@Khagan: It’s a little unsettling to see your enthusiasm about returning your country to the stone age and somehow getting rid of millions of people.
I feel you won’t be surprised to know how close your line of thinking is to the Nazi doctrine.
I can also see that no amount of counter arguments will make you “think” about your position, so I won’t bother.
Fortunately, such thinking is still a minority and hopefully it will stay that way for quite some time, so that Singaporeans continue to be born to a safe and convenient life that is unparalleled in the world, rather than become an underdeveloped country that will be over run by it’s neighbor(s).
Cheers!
People like Khagan are hopeless. They love Singapore since they cant make it on the global stage. As long as this govt provided a decent life, they kept on voting them. Now in the past 5-6 years, things have become tougher, they hate the same govt. And yet bcus they have no where to go, they feel frustrated and put all this nationalistic agenda of Singapore for Singaporeans only, hate Foreigners campaign, etc.
Clearly, all this has nothing to do with love for Singapore. This is nothing more than pure selfish agenda and fault finding and last but not the least, finding a good life n wealth for themselves.
If atleast they were candid and said look “I want a good life”, I would have agreed. But with all this hypocrisy about love for the country and willing to die for the country is bullshit. A little pain and they are whining. Talk abt dying !!
@Another PR:
“It’s a little unsettling to see your enthusiasm…”
I understand how you feel….
But that’s because you’re still ADDICTED to some form of the 3 Ps (Power, Possessions, Pleasures), to say the least!
They’re like drugs, you know? LOL
“…about returning your country to the stone age…”
May I ask, where did I say “stone age” or anything similar?
If you think “PRE-Raffles/19thCentury” = “Stone Age”, then I think you are the one who needs to do some thinking!
Or maybe you should read a bit more about the history of the world, if you really want to know the truth! LOL
But maybe you have better things to do and can’t be bothered, in which case I’ll understand, but please don’t put words into my mouth, especially if they don’t have the same meaning as what I actually said!
“…and somehow getting rid of millions of people.”
Have you heard of the island of Guam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam
Its land area (about 540 km2) is just slightly smaller than what Singapore’s used to be in the 1960s (about 580 km2), before land reclamation caused our land area to increase to over 700 km2 now; as for Guam’s ARABLE land area, it’s also a very small percentage (about 3 or 4%, or about 20 km2) of its total land area.
But what is its population now?
Still less than 200,000!!!
And if you think Guam is still in some kind of “stone age”, I’d like to see a comment from you saying that! LOL
“I feel you won’t be surprised to know how close your line of thinking is to the Nazi doctrine.”
Actually, I AM surprised! LOL
Because I don’t know what “the Nazi doctrine” is or WHICH “Nazi doctrine” you’re referring to!
In any case, that’s not the point!
The point is that Singapore is WAY overpopulated for an island-city-country that only has 10 km2 of farmland!!!
“I can also see that no amount of counter arguments will make you “think” about your position”
Obviously, anyone can see on this page the counter-arguments against my position, but I’m not sure what you mean by “think”, because I HAVE spent quite a bit of time thinking before posting all my long comments, something which I did NOT intend to do in the beginning!
Or did you mean “change” my position? LOL
Or even worse, change my position to agree with yours and those of like-minded people? LOL
With all due respect, I think if I were to do so, it would be a change for the worse, and not for the better! LOL
“so I won’t bother.”
Yes, I bet you won’t! LOL
You probably have more important and fulfilling things to do with your “safe and convenient life that is unparalleled in the world”! LOL
“such thinking is still a minority”
I dare say, I MIGHT be the ONLY Singaporean at the moment who wants Singapore’s population to drop to below 100,000! LOL
But yet, I don’t think I’m being unreasonable because if Guam can have a population of just below 200,000 on an island with only 20 km2 of arable land, I think Singapore can/should have below 100,000 inhabitants on this island that has only 10 km2 of arable land!
“and hopefully it will stay that way for quite some time”
Yes, you may hope if you want, but there’s no guarantee that Singapore’s SEEMING prosperity will last forever!
In fact, it’s quite POSSIBLE that Singapore could experience some really serious crisis within our lifetimes!
Even our Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said recently that the world/future is very uncertain!
So, unexpected things CAN happen!
“so that Singaporeans continue to be born to a safe and convenient life that is unparalleled in the world”
I would say that Singapore is a RELATIVELY safer and more convenient city/country compared to most other cities/countries in the world.
But whether more Singaporean BABIES should continue to come into this world and live in Singapore is a different issue, to say the least! LOL
(And I’ll try very hard not to say anymore, unless someone provokes me to say more! LOL)
“rather than become an underdeveloped country that will be over run by it’s neighbor(s).”
I’m not sure if you read one of my most recent comments, but in it, I did say:
“IF Singapore really becomes a REAL kampong with a population of less than 100,000, why would anyone want to invade Singapore?
The trend would be for people to LEAVE Singapore! LOL
And since Singapore has so few natural resources, what’s there to STEAL? LOL
And if there’s hardly anything to steal, what need is there to defend our island? LOL
In fact, if we can successfully manage to become a real kampong again, we would have ironically managed to not just expel all the present foreigners, we would even have managed to defend ourselves from future invasions by foreigners simply by the fact that we’re a “worthless” tiny piece of KAMPONG! LOL”
“Cheers!”
Sayonara~~~ LOL
@WhatThe:
“People like Khagan are hopeless.”
Yes, I agree! LOL
Because there is no hope for people like YOU to convert ME to YOUR way of thinking! LOL
I simply love my philosophy too much and hate yours too much! LOL
Besides, I can also say the same for people like you, because I also have no hope to convert people like you to my way of thinking! LOL
“They love Singapore since they cant make it on the global stage.”
And what makes you so sure about that?
How would you know if people such as myself have or have not made it “on the global stage”?
But once again, that’s not the point!
The point is that people such as myself love Singapore to the point that we DON’T EVEN WANT to “make it on the global stage”!
This is TRUE LOVE and LOYALTY!
I would rather die IN my home-country NO MATTER WHAT, than leave it for WHATEVER reason, let alone trying to “make it on the global stage”, whatever that means!
As if the outside world is very much better than Singapore! LOL
“As long as this govt provided a decent life, they kept on voting them.”
For your information, I have never even had a chance to vote because the constituencies I have been living in since I turned 21 kept getting walked over by the PAP!
“Now in the past 5-6 years, things have become tougher, they hate the same govt.”
That’s not true, and you should know it, unless you’re ignorant of the fact that this “same govt” has been hated by many people since BEFORE “the past 5-6 years”, to say the least again!
“And yet bcus they have no where to go, they feel frustrated and put all this nationalistic agenda of Singapore for Singaporeans only, hate Foreigners campaign, etc.”
This is yet another false accusation!
It is not because we have “no where to go”, but because we REFUSE to go anywhere else!
“Clearly, all this has nothing to do with love for Singapore.”
It has EVERYTHING to do with love for Singapore!
Because true love for a thing/person/country would love, and stay with, that thing/person/country till DEATH!
Can the same be said for all these foreigners, both PRs and especially non-PRs?
“This is nothing more than pure selfish agenda and fault finding and last but not the least, finding a good life n wealth for themselves.”
But we are much more deserving for this so-called “good life n wealth”, simply because we were born here, GREW UP here, and SUFFERED and SACRIFICED so much for such a life!!!
“If atleast they were candid and said look “I want a good life”, I would have agreed.”
Huh?!?!?
Isn’t that what we’ve been saying?
We do want a good and decent life, which has been taken away from us by certain policies of the so-called Government!
That’s why we’re protesting!
And we have been protesting for many years, not just the past 5-6 years, but there’s obviously a limit to what we can do since the Government is so powerful and merciless in shutting us up, to say the least!
“But with all this hypocrisy about love for the country and willing to die for the country is bullshit.”
I’m not sure about other people, but for myself, I am willing to die IN my country, NOT “for” my country if you mean going to war and KILLING other people so that I can remain in my country; I am not a murderer and have no plans to murder anyone, although many people in this world deserve to get killed, to say the least! LOL
It might be true that those hypocrites you speak of exist, but I’m certainly not one of them!