Property Agents make A LOT of Money
April 20th, 2008
I think the Straits Times over-glamorised the real estate profession in its multi-page spread on “Rodeo Realtors” yesterday.
In terms of their income.
Maybe the writers were being very selective and showcased only the highly successful property agents.
But I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the article may mislead a few young minds, much like the way some insurance agencies and MLM firms “encourage” their new recruits (see comment).
The ST article showcased 7 real estate agents:
- Male, 36, 2 months’ experience, $10k average monthly income
- Male, 53, 2 years’ experience, >$50k average monthly income
- Female, 35, 4 years’ experience, $10k average monthly income
- Female, 26, 3 years’ experience, $10k average monthly income
- Female, 38, 7 years’ experience, $7k to $10k average monthly income
- Male, 36, 2 years’ experience, $5k average monthly income
- Female, late 40s, >10 years’ experience, >$26k average monthly income
But, according to the MOM Report on Wages, the top 25% of real estate agents make a gross monthly income of $4,647 (at the 75th-percentile mark). See post.
So the agents listed above are all in the top 25%, with 6 of them hugely successful by most standards.
Or, if these agents are the “average”, there may be a discrepancy between the MOM numbers and reality.
Either way, people will be flocking to be property agents. Hopefully they will not be too disappointed.
Ag Says:
April 21st, 2008 at 12:09 am
I read the article and hmmm.. who should i believe the ST or MOM..
What is the reality?
These few years, estate is blooming, they will earn a lot. When market is bad, will they earn so much?
wait and wait Says:
April 21st, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Reality is it’s not possible to find the “average pay” for real estate. It can range from negative(after cost) to more than a million SGD per year. Also the pay is gross, so must still deduct expenses, about roughly 20% – 30%.
Property agents are not employees, they are considered business owners. Therefore a business owner earning a few hundred thousand dollars is ok when compared to other businesses.
It’s only when you conmpare them to employment income then you feel they are earning alot. The popular curry puff owner makes alot more than $100k a year.
SmartTrader Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
I don’t have information about what property agents take home pay is. But even if it is not $10K, $5K monthly is still a lot for a Sales position that does not require a Degree. All being said, when during downturn, the pay will be substantially reduced. Also, my perception is that there are more people making big as property agents than insurance agents. Just imagine 1% commission per transaction, average price of a HDB house is probably about $300K, you just need to close 1-2 deals a month.
The article may over-glamourize, but I feel that it is a very lucrative career if you are okay with house viewing on weekends and weekday nights.
wait and wait Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I agree with smart trader that it can be a lucrative career only if one works hard and smart. No degree and earn more than $10k a month is very common in singapore. I remember there is an article in salary.sg about hawkers earning >$100k a month in sales. Even after say 50% expenses, still can make $50k a month. Maybe they don’t even have PSLE.
I believe the higher your education, the less you will start your own business, therefore less chance to become rich. Being employed and earn $5k a month is good pay. Being self employed and earn $20k a month is normal.
Vic Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Property business is the one for any who like to start to be your own boss with no high start up cost. Maybe some money for buying nice shirts, ties, handphone bills and transport fees. But in this business I think you must like sales and like to mingle with people from all walks of life.
However, you are competing with more than 30000 in the market and how you can stand out among them will determine how much you gain. The fear of not clinching a deal for months will make you sweat. I am sure there will be a lot that fail no matter how hard they try but the newspaper only feature those super successful. Anyway, no pain no gain.
Reader Says:
April 28th, 2008 at 10:32 am
My understanding is that a lot of those real estate agents DO NOT declare their true income to evade income taxes.
Yet they boast Says:
April 28th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
@Reader – yes I think so too. Yet some of them have the cheek to boast about their astronomical income in newspapers such as the one mentioned in the blog article above.
wait and wait Says:
April 28th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Most of them only state about $10k a month. Don’t think is boasting. In fact very humble already. Real estate agent if cannot earn > $10k a month is considered below average. Even sell cars also can earn about ths figure after including all the loan and insurance referral commission.
Anyway how much you earn is not the most important. How much you spend and how much you can save is. Earn $10k, spend $9.5k is not rich.
earn and earn Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 am
My property agent told me he earned more than 300K last year and 50K alone last month. And he is a resident agent and does not have a car, he only sells apartments within our condominium.
Imagine his savings!
But if the market spirals downhill things may turn out differently of course, after all last year was a bumper crop year for all in property line…
Steven Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
some earn more some earn less. but its really very tough market. I should know cause i’m an agent.
Realtor Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Well, amist all the comments.. I find that most people still think that property agents earns good money based on simple work.
It is only when you are in the field itself than you would truely understand how it is really like.
For those who think it is easy, why not try giving up stability in your fixed pay job and give it a try for 1 year. you will understand what it feels like then (As a agent yourself).
People alway comment on things based on a empty head. If it is so easy a job / career, Nobody would be working for a lowly paid job anymore.
Have anyone really think of what the job is truely like??
1)Competition – More than 300,000 agents and increasing, fighting for the same rice bowl.
2)High Overhead Expense – Where you get some of your leads from, Flyers ($500monthly), Distribution ($20~25/1000pcs), Advertising (min $500 per month), transportation, phone bills, administration stuff, legal issues, follow-ups.
Basically Cost & Competition would be enough, it is like a self run business, sometimes you earn but you need to prepare for the rainy days. 1-2 deals monthly?? only enough to cover what you have spend on the overheads, not enough to give you & your family a good life.
Those who think it’s still easy, just give it a try. After that, than you’ll know how “EASY” it is..
neuromanticx Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I guess ST “average” is miscommunicated. There are some months that they make and some months that they don’t. So its an unsteady stream of income, and when you average it out over 12 months it is as if they make more than 10K each month, which I don’t think so if there’s nothing to sell and nobody buys anyway. So that’s why they agents want to make big bucks whenever they get a chance to even out the days that they don’t make.
wait and wait Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Salary.sg is a good site. Good job admin. I realised there is a trend here. Most people want to find out what’s the average pay of any vocation. When they see somebody getting good pay, they assume he is the best of the best and they want to know what the average get.
You know what? My opinion is that if you are average, you should be paid average. Period. There is a saying, “In any business and any industry, the top 3 companies make almost all the $$ and the rest of them just struggle to survive.”
Same for jobs. The top management make most of the $$, the rest of the staff get enough to pay their bills. Same for footballers. Our S-league players maybe earn
and your point Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 pm
is?
clowned Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
i think housing agt is a very unstable job…life iua abt gives and takes. true, if house ag is so easy a job= came and try and see if u succed. i very much doubt that graduates can succeed as agent.. graduates only know how to be jealous of ag salary… everyone has the right to be succful in life, whthr they are highly educated or not.. i;m a graduate house agnt.. spasking up for my non- degree house agent frens..
wow Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 pm
you sure talk like a graduate
a simple agent Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I am a property agent and have in this biz for the past 8 mths. Like most sales line, there’s a need of certain calibre in order to be sucessful in this line. To earn at least $10K per month on EVERY other month. The keyword is to MAINTAIN your results.
-Discipline, hardwork, skills of negotiation, luck, persistent
Like some said. It’a a truly unstable and stressful job when you cannot close a single deal after putting whole’s month effort. Who’s gonna pay for our expenses?
We are like farmers. We only get our fruit of our labour (which is cash) after we close the deal. If we don’t close end of the day, we get NOTTING and nobody’s gonna pay for our past effort. So sometime I called it ‘business risk’.
For those listed as top earners or producers, only a business minded agent will be able to maintain their income because our salary is truly unstable.
This is really a competitive world which a lot of employed workers will never feel.
(I used to work for a gov agency for the past 7 years and I have recently quitted my full time job to work in this line. It’s has never been easy for me.)
wait and wait Says:
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
Post got truncated don’t know why. Continue => S-league players maybe earn
wait and wait Says:
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:07 am
there is a problem le…
chargingbull Says:
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:55 am
It is disgusting how the straits times always tell what is not the truth!
The reality of the real estate business’s top agents is in the multi-level earning power of the top of the uplines, and the amount of money collected from their misleading the masses into their recruitment drives, and the collection of huge amounts of training fees, from gullible people who are misled into thinking that they can chase that singapore dream of earning big bucks!
Another words, the straits times is not telling you the truth in short that the real estate business in singapore is about multi-multi-level marketing!
And agencies earn big bucks in collecting money from training “agents”
chargingbull Says:
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:03 am
I recruit many of you and many of you pay $600 to $1500 each for training, and i get commission from your paying training fees, and i collect 5% over-riding from many of your commissions.
Many of you recruit many others under you and you get commission from training fees, and i also get to collect a cut of this commission, and many of you collect 5% over-riding from many of your recruits’ commissions, and i get to collect 3% from them too.
And the same sequence goes on and on.
chargingbull Says:
May 5th, 2008 at 9:33 am
On the average, an agent at the Director Level earns not less than $30K per month from Over-Riding Commission.
This excludes the training fee commissions they collect from recruiting newbies into the company who pay from $600 upwards for Basic Real Estate Training.
There are about 100 to 300 new recruits for each agency every month.
There are about 45,000 to 50,000 agents and the numbers are increasing.
disgusting Says:
May 5th, 2008 at 11:27 am
and they then use these shameless training ‘profits’ and add them into their own income stream as proof that property agents make bug bucks. Which in turn will con the other impressionable common folk to fork in their hard earned money to contribute to their wealth. Sad but vicious cycle.
wait and wait Says:
May 5th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
But they can also earn $30k a month just by doing personal sales. No need to recruit a single person.
clowned Says:
May 5th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
wow… really?/
an agent at the Director Level earns not less than $30K per month from Over-Riding Commission??
can anyone support or tell me how true this statement is??
i always thougth life as a house ag is unstable..
if a house ag cna earn so much passive income from overriding, then it isnt so unstable afterall…
clowned Says:
May 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
$30k per month personal sales implies sheer hard work..
$30k per month from overridding implies sound too good to be true.. in fact a bit ridiculous?? any house ag director here to verify???
SmartTrader Says:
May 5th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I stand corrected after hearing all the tough experiences of the real life agents here.
Seems like the experiences are similar to MLM, go in early and you can reap good money, go in late, you are feeding others.
chargingbull Says:
May 8th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Well, since the Administrator of this blog removed my posts of the actual named agencies, let’s just say that Donald Duck and his gang of Mickey Mice at the agency next to the Western Food Joint near the Toa Payoh Library, uses this selling point that he has ever not worked for a full year and yet he still earns $30k a month.
And if you want to be like him, you must join his agency; which coincidentally claims to be the biggest; in order to start earning big income like him.
Mind you, he was not talking about closing that $30,000 deal when he talked about it in the crowded classroom!
So, M-L-M is the name of the game, even the DishWasher agency claims it too.
I really hope someone brings up this blog to that stupid journalist who wrote that article to mislead people into the M-L-M of Real Estate.
cloned Says:
May 9th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
aiya.. dun scold the ke lian journalist.. she just doing her job to write articles.. anyway,i still curious as to so good oveerrriding fees.. keke..
Careerwork Says:
May 12th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
I admire the simple agent that quitted his 7 years iron rice bowl career and embark into a journey of uncertainty. Property agents are selling a service whereby any tom dick or harry can do it. Luck is very important. I strongly believe it is not an easy work although anyone can do it. Because anyone can do it means now more than 30 000 people are competing with you. You know the Maths.
a simple agent again Says:
May 13th, 2008 at 12:10 am
seriously before i quitted my gov job (of 7 years) to join property, someone painted a rosy picture about this line and how easy we can earn big buck.
I was somehow being convinced and “conned” that it’s just a ‘match making job’. Any tom, dick and harry can do it.
But it was a real cultural shock to me, really harsh and cruel. No one actually said that I will earn NOTING for the first 6 months and already alot of $ was spent on course and advertisement.
My so-call upline never give me any leads and I was like left in the jungle to fend for myself. I almost regret after 3 months. I did not close a single deal and was feeling very down and losing my confidence but it was my family support and a very understanding hubby who helped me to go thru all these months of hardship.
I did not earn $10K or more every month. But for the past 8 months, I already earn what I was getting for the past seven years annually. This is what I call breakthrough and sense of achievement.
It’s all from my hardship and persistent to be who I am today. I never regret joining this line as there are customers who will come to me for advice for my professionalism. I believe in sincerity and responsibility. To me, my commission is always the last thing in my mind when I am on my job. I believe in being upright and honest.
cloned Says:
May 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
to ” a simple agent again ” …
any comments on the overriddding??
taxman Says:
May 17th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
tell the taxman to chase after all of them lah.
someone Says:
May 18th, 2008 at 4:07 am
you mean you earned 7 years pay in 8 months?
HSR Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 8:29 am
If you dont believe in over-riding, then come to HSR and see how much you can collect from training fees and over-riding.
ha ha
Rapanzel Says:
July 16th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Hi! I intend to join property business but is looking at the right n good agency to stay. Wonder if there’s any group out there which focus on central area, private condo. I used to be with Propnex which charge 7-3 commision which seems to be the worst ratio rate. Anyone out there can advise? Thks!
Email: rapanzel82@yahoo.com.sg
simple agent Says:
July 17th, 2008 at 1:09 am
well, i think for rookie, most agency paid at the same rate, unless you got kangtao…..
thinking bout it Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 10:27 am
hmm…seems like there’s the same ratio between good and bad advice on wanting to become a property agent. I’m impressed by simple agent’s perseverance in this line, since I’ve heard many good and bad stories on those who stepped into this job as well. In my opinion, those who do well will obviously give you the better side of the story, and those who don’t likewise. It’s probably all about getting the right mindset before stepping into this line? Even with a high commission ratio, if you don’t make any sales you will still be broke. Whereas if you push yourself and get lucky, less commission ratio you’ll still earn money.
Personally I’m looking to start part time and monitor myself to see if fledging into full time , “can make it anot”. I already do not have a high paying salary on my day job being am a freelance creative personnel and work part time on the other days to supplement my income and expenses for driving lessons, so no income at the start for me is something I am prepared to handle if it happens lah, since I kena lousy bosses in the past who never pay my salary on time and ran away with my CPF, nothing more sway than that I cannot tahan lol. In my situtation, I feel I’m in the worst scenario to want to start my own business since I have no money to do it and still need to bring the dollars home for myself and parents every month. But honestly in anycase for every line you really never know what will happen till you try for yourself.
Any more experienced agents have useful advise to share pls do so? It would really help to motivate and provide us with a reality check as well =)
simple agent Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 11:04 am
To thinking bout it,
If you intent to step in this line, I suggest that you really have to do whole heartedly and in full time basis. Seriously, alot of my other co-colleages though they started early than me or have more experience cannot survive in the part time basis.
Beside doing viewing, there’s alot of preparation work. If you are serving buyer, you need to find about the market price and spend time searching and arranging for the property to view. If one viewing cannot buy, we must also understand why so that when we arrange for the next viewing, we know what to avoid.
If we are serving the seller, we must spend $ on advertisement cost and to entertain viewing. In today’s market, the closing rate is definately slower than before. But then, private and HDB market is a very different market. So we have to choose what we want to do.
Next, beside the basic fundamental, alot of time, we spent time negotiating, persuading and problem solving in order to close a deal.We must also be knowledgable about the procedure so that we don’t over-promise something and ended up in silly situation.
So we must take care of every little details in order to close a deal. Not to forget that our cheque does not come in ASAP. For HDB we must wait for a least 8 weeks upon closing the deal for our cheq
simple agent Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 11:08 am
for our cheque to come in. Like wise for private, 12 week generally.
So our cashflow is a BIG consideration that we need to pay for our transportation fee and advertisement cost (can range from $800 to $2000 per month)!.
And my last advice is, if you dun own a car, it’s gonna be very difficult to survive in this line. because it’s really very inconvenient to take public transport and to serve buyer to bring them around.
To summarise:
1) Better to own a car.
2) cash flow to “dong” you for 6 months.
3) spend time reading and doing research work for your buyer and sellers so as to advice them property.
4) Must know your paperwork well to avoid getting silly situation when you promise the terms and conditions.
5) Negotiation skills and stragise your closing.
P-values Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
to a simple agent:
I strongly support yr statement, being a agent is more than just getting sellers to sell, buyers to buy. All the background work, preparation, arrangement and timing coordination roles are very time consuming.
In the long run, I will say being in the top management, providing new agents training, motivation, coaching and direction, reaping a reasonable overiding commision is definitely justifiable.
simple agent Says:
July 25th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
to P-values:
Thanks for the support. I am still green in this line (coming to 1 year as full time agent). But I thought that I should really share my experience before anyone like me who have no clues about WAT WE ARE IN FOR.
I am not in any management position yet but I know that in order to reach that level, definitely, we sacrifice our precious time to coach new agent instead of doing our own closing. (It so much more $ to earn the deal ourselves) So I feel that our management still deserve some overriding.
Actually,since day 1, I am rather independent as my manager didn’t really help me a lot. (He just accompany one viewing and that’s it) I source for my own listing and I learn a lot from my own mistakes and solve my own problems.
Sometimes, it’s more irritating that my own manager don’t even know how to solve my problem as they have never handle such deals before. It’s quite sad.
Anyway, I have happy to be who and where I am now and most important that this job beside $ gives me a lot of fulfillment.
P-values Says:
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
-to simple agent:
You head becomes harder after knocking the wall yourself for a few time. Soon enuf you dont need a helmet (you manager).
Cheers!
exofficio Says:
September 3rd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Does a real estate agent need to contribute CPF compulsorily? Cos how does MOM get the figure if agents do not have to contribute CPF ( or declare taxes)?
HSR Loyalist Says:
September 9th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Definately better than being an insurance agent, haha…
Jim Says:
September 10th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Simple Agent,
Can we keep in touch?
You can email me at czp82@msn.com
I am contemplating of doing full-time and would like to seek your advise.
ERA man Says:
September 15th, 2008 at 2:07 am
I was a real estate agent and I used to make about 20k every month. But we agents like to tell people the gross income. But to make 20k, the cost is about 40-50% of gross, so this makes me make 10k only. But I like to tell people I make 20k.
Referring to the earlier post of top 25% makes average of 4k, this is true. The top 3% makes 70% of the top 25%’s income. For example, if you are in ERA and not in top 100, then you might as well get a regular job. It’s less tiring. Because to make 5k a month, you need about 10k gross to be safe. This means 2-3 houses every month. To sell 2, you need to be marketing 10, and for 10 you need to be meeting 20 new buyers/sellers every month, and to get there, you need to throw 100,000 flyers and advertise at least twice weekly. For 5k, I’ll rather be an employee. For those who are superagents, either they work 2 times as hard to make 20k (40k gross, and hence tell people they make 480k a year), or their conversion rates are better.
but it is a still a good business to be in. It’s quite fun. If I close down my current business, I may return to real estate line.
Simple Agent Says:
September 15th, 2008 at 11:58 am
To ERA Man,
May I know how many years were you in real estate business?
Also since it’s a good biz to you, possibly what are the good reasons to make you quit during that time?
ERA man Says:
September 15th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
I was in real estate for 2.5 years
I was thinking forward to about 10 years later when I want to return to Singapore.
Then I went to China to start an education business.
Real estate is good biz, but your evenings are always not with your family. You have to reserve it for house viewings. But in the day, quite free. For me, family is important too. So I looked for another opportunity. And then China looked attractive at that point in time. So I dived in to try. Though I did not do education business first. I was in general trading first, then education. I’m quite happy now. China is a crazy place.
Simple Agent Says:
September 15th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Ya, I agree with you that family is important to me. Thus sometime, I felt so guilty when I was so busy closing my deals and going for house viewings.
I have also given myself about another 2 years in this biz (though I enjoy the challenges that I am having right now) to start my own biz. I love to have passive income to support me so that I can allocate more time to spend with my kids. They are very young and I wish to spend more time with them.
Actually I have no regrets to be a property agent and aim to be respected to be a good and professional one. (though many times, we can be play out by others…..)
ERA man Says:
September 16th, 2008 at 10:03 am
I remember evenings cannot quite have confirm family outings, unless it’s a special occasion. Most of the time I get suck into work that I’ll be angry if my wife plans for the evenings. Now to think back, it has been hard on her.
Actually in Singapore I think passive income is much hype. To me there is no such thing as passive income. Some say insurance line has passive income, sell on time, get passive income. But really in reality there’s no escaping when clients call. I am now a firm believer that there must always be input to have output. Nothing will keep paying you for nothing, unless you give them money. So for me passive income is that 3-5% returns either in real estate leasing or bank FD or bonds. So for me the target is 5M by 2013. What’s yours?
Alex-Px Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Real Estate is truly a real business. It has a very low start up cost with the highest turnover.
Commenting-Time for family is to be managed by individuals priorities.
Commenting-Sales is based on conversions ratios. To improve conversion ratios, one has to constantly upgrade and improve their own abilities.
Many blame the business model and not themselves for not able to succeed in this industry. Many fail because of lack of knowledge in the marketing budget, failing to maintain consistant prospecting efforts, poor time management and wrong sphere of influence.
The agent you see at the void deck after 7pm is a salesman and not a businessman.
This business NEEDS employees!! Meant to prospect everyday, to do house viewings, to take charge of the marketing, for admin support, for flyer distributions, for networking with clients, for recruitment support, research work and many more..
An agent should be a CEO of his own business. Our real job is to ensure that all aspects in this business is covered by sufficent employees and that job scopes are effectively delegated and leveraged.
Market conditions can be bad, but business is still good.
Its saddening to see negative comments here, if an agent cannot make $$ in his first month, if he has no time for his family, if he is working too hard as an agent, if he made $20k a mth but failed to be consistant, who should he blame??
Conclusion-All agents do business differently, there is no such thing of average income in this real estate business. If you really need an average to gauge; one can earn between $2k to $100k per mth . There is no such thing as full time or part time agents. It is their own “Business”.
Its now a battle between academic smarts and the street smarts. The streets taught me how to make money, schools help me educate employees to help me make more money.
To all agents:- Good luck!
To non-agents:- Join Us or Ignore us!
To ex-agents:- Come back to us, we miss you!
To All:-”If one cannot make money without money; what makes you think that one can make money with money?”
All the best!!
Just a 24 yr old guy commenting..
Email: propertyempire@hotmail.com
adiemuso Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:01 am
i have no idea what you are ranting about. times are bad. brace yourself. good luck,
agent boy75 Says:
October 6th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
i have been in small property company for quite some time now and i share the same sentiments for wat all the agents have shared. doing poperty in singapore is very competitive and most of the time the big boys get all the luck.most of the clients put their trust on the agents who wear land yard and have flyer with their face on it. i have been through many appointments where the big boys didn’t have to do any thing but just brought in “potiential buyers”(fake buyers) which inpressed the seller and on the spot the seller gave them the exclusive of the place.
i also had agents telling me their seller didnt give them commission and wan half of my com if my buyer wan to buy the hose.
i also had buyer who didn’t trust my experience in the property bussiness and engaged a director just to come negoiate on the price of the house.
what i’m trying to say here is if u wan to make it in this bussiness. do wat the romans do? if u wan to be a lone ranger like me u got to accept any thing tat comes yur way and eventually u will successed. good luck, save cost make lots of money.
Simple Agent Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am
To: Alex-Px
Dun fine me offending, but would like you to answer few of my questions as I find your reply very different from others. I would think that agent boy75 makes a very good point about cost saving in order to make more $. Because we can be earning $20 grand a month but our advertisement cost and transport cost will kill us if we dun manage them properly.
You are right to say that we should be “manager” to manage our “runner” to do the admin support for us. But to me, in order to do that, first of all we must have a consistent amount of closing so as to spend on this runners.
I do not quite agree that those agent that you see after 7pm are salesman and not bizman. I have men seniors who brought viewers to view HDB flats but they are top achievers in the company too. Are you referring to those HDB agent are just salesman and not truly an agent? I do not know if this is what you mean but definitely those selling HDB flats now are the survivals in today’s market. Just read more and you’ll know.
1. How many years are you on this market?
2. May I know you income per month in order to substain your biz model?
Dun mean to be offensive but i just find your post interesting…
Alex-Px Says:
October 7th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
To Simple Agent:
My post is meant for a comment. Please take it lightly.
I would like to comment on why are most agents killed by advertisement cost is due to their lack qualifying the listing. Most of my properties are taken within 3 advertisements. I will NOT advertise units that will not sell. Newspaper ads is one of my many marketing tools which is also the most expensive and not-so effective way of marketing. I will classify advertisement cost as an investment rather than an expense. An agent who invest in the wrong listing is similar to investing in the wrong stock. An adverisement of $200 should generate at least $2000.
I apologize if I offended anyone regarding the 7pm salesman and businessman issue. My intention is to highlight that there are many ways to do this business. Top acheivers may not necessary be good business people; or rather, they are good just good sales people. Good business people should have systems and people in place so that they can be away for the operations 80% of the time thus having more time for 4 vacations per year together with their family and loved ones. This quality Time should also be spent on networking, prospecting, lead generation, spotting of opportunities and overall business responsibility.
I beg to differ your statement that HDB flats are survivals in today’s market. I have been transacting more private properties this year despite the slow down. I have done more than $400k in sales in Two years but I can say approx 50% is kept to invest back into the business for expansion purposes.
You might say that we need a consistent income to fund the runners. But in my point of view, Runners should be trained to do exclusives and closings and they are on a no-closing no-pay basis.
There is no right or wrong in this business as I mentioned. Its just different people doing this business in different ways. Everyone has different goals, I hope to achieve an automated model rather than to sell more houses.
We can choose to set up a fruit stall in the HDB heartlands or to package our fruits distributed in international supermarkets-A concept by Adam Khoo.
This is not a monthly income business, it is rather, an annual income business. An agent doing $20K a mth may not outlast an agent doing $5K a month consistently in the long run. “A bubble tea business and a tea manufactuer company” as a good parable to explain my point.
Please see this as a personal sharing exprience.
Please do not be offended by any of my statements.
We can discuss more of this offline for a clearer understanding if needed.
Email: propertyempire@hotmail.com
Cheers!
era.ger Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Alex Px: Just a suggestion: if your model works, why not write a book on it. I’m sure it would bring in unlimited income,e.g Rich Dad Poor Dad
bullsht alert Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 12:47 am
to the one who calculated that Directors make more than $30K per month on overriding:
WAKE UP.
Or better, get your facts right and JOIN and AGENCY. Stop talking nonsense.
I AM A MARKETING DIRECTOR of the largest agency in Singapore.
I have one new recruit and another very excellent experienced female agent who made $140K last year. Her income this year from property: $0.
The new agent: $0.
Even if the experienced agent made $140K this year again (unlikely, last year was a bonanza), I would have only a 6% overriding, which is only $8400!!!! ONE YEAR!!!! Even someone working in McDonalds part time can make more than that in HALF a year!
And, did I mention that she was a very good EXPERIENCED agent??? She made ZERO this year.
My colleague just called to ask after an ex-colleague who dropped out and we learnt that he cannot be in the business anymore because he cannot afford to advertise anymore.
Now, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT before spouting nonsense.
I really cannot take it when I see self-righteous fools typing nonsense with figures ‘plucked from the air’ without anything to back them up.
Might as well join the Straits Times and claim that the AVERAGE agent makes $10K a month. Jeez.
The ignorance is shocking.
bullsht alert Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 12:54 am
And yes, as a Marketing Director, I have ONLY 2 downlines. (Unlike your fanciful mlm castle theory).
To be a marketing director, it is not that tough, just hit enough sales. You can even be a director without downlines. One man show. Just hit the sales figure required for promotion and you will be promoted.
Marketing Director earns $30K on over-riding? You must be dreaming.
that must be the most ridiculous statement I ever heard.
bullsht alert Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 1:01 am
so many of my director’s new recruits drop like flies… . This is a tough industry and I cannot even count how many drop outs I have seen come and go. Do you even realise HOW MUCH EFFORT it takes to take a normal Joe on the street and train him to become a producing agent who can actually feed his own family???
I think, since the beginning of the year till now….. with ALL of the new recruits my director (my upline) has been bringing in… I can say that the TOTAL commissions brought in by these clueless newbies is DEFINITELY less than $10,000. And I am talking about 16 of them added together. Now, even IF they made $10,000 (total), my director would have only over-rode a super grand total of $600. Not bad for 10 months of motivational work eh! No wonder he is more interested in serving his clients than to recruit.
bullsht alert Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 1:08 am
I see on the TOP 100 PAYING JOBS IN SINGAPORE based on MOM’s findings:
http://www.salary.sg/2008/best-paying-jobs-in-singapore-2008/
A lawyer/advocate and solicitor ranked 33 makes only $7500 a month!
And to think someone actually believes that a property agent’s Director can make an AVERAGE salary of $30K… LOL!
That’s equal to the TOP job in Singapore – a specialised surgeon!!!
Only difference between working as a surgeon and a property agent: A surgeon operates on someone every single day.
Alex-Px Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 6:54 am
I partially agree with bullsht!!
I am a Director myself. I have a size 20 over downlines with me. Some perform well, some are just lazing around. With this amount of people, my overridding average $800 to $1500 per month. Most Group Directors average overridings are within $2K to $8K. Only with a strength of more than 600 to 800 associates, maybe its possible for a overriding of $30K. It may be possible, but the sheer fact is that its gonna be challenging to manage them. But as a matter of fact, I rather do recruitment than to serve me clients even though the overriding may seem small from the start. If we understand the power of compounding,imagine the 1st associate you got recommends 2 people to join, then the 2 recommends 4, then 4 to 8, 8 to 16, 16 to 32, 32 to 64. Imagine what we will get at the end of five years? This is a perfect senario, it will never happen, but what are your chances? It all starts with a seed accompanied but nurishment. Thats why I am so glad to be in this business. Sales+rental+associates+opportunities+lifestyle=Happiness.
Cheers!
Email: propertyempire@hotmail.com
cloned Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
the post of ” bullsht alert Says’ IS great.i feel that he is telling the truth and not like some people who r out to recruit agents … i guess only top 1% gets to enjoy $30k overriddin.. my mentor has got only
adiemuso Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
common sense tells u its not possible. if its easy to be at the top, many agents would have no need to sell and they have to be supported by a large base of hardworking agents. think of a pyramid, triangular structure. the top echelons make, the bottom don’t.
some agents do make 30k per month but not most, not many just that handful. its just like traders draw multimillion payouts, but its only that handful. the rest are just average johns and does.
stop all this nonsense especially in this climate.
Alex-Px Says:
October 8th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Very True!! No wonder the Law of Nature is fair. 10% of the people makes an income more than 90% of the people. The difference now is a simple logic between people who knows how to make money and people who dont. There is nothing to complain or argue about. Insanity derives when we continue to do what we are always doing and to expect a different result. Be open and give yourself a chance to explore the Real Estate potential. You will never know..
Cheers!
ryan Says:
October 24th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
to Alex-px and Simple agent, can i get in touch with u guys? i would like to seek more advise before coming into this field.
inhuman.nature@hotmail.com
Positive Says:
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:36 am
I lost my job after 13 years as a director and my colleague lost his after 15 years in a blink of eyes. So, if you think property agent job is not stable and working in a corporate is better, then you gonna think again. If you are worth $100 an hour, you are always paid $100 even if you work more than that. This is typical bucket carrier being in a so call stable corporate job. Great monetary reward comes with taking action and not quacking. If you continue to quack like the 90% always thinking this is no good and that is no safe, how can you be the top 10%? You can’t walk walk out of your own comfort zone and take risk like the property agents do, so what big money to talk about? I respect these agents even though I’m not one of them and I don’t believe in the so call publish stats as agents are not sole proprietor and MOM tracks only the salaried employees.
Positive Says:
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:38 am
Typo: agents are sole proprietor
SGDividends Says:
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
Wow, Positive. You hit the sweet spot and you are absolutely, 100%, guarantteed right.
Quite simply, working in a corporation, in especially those non commission or sales based function, you will always be averaged down to the average employee, no matter how many reports, statistics, graphs you churn out or meetings you attend. It’s obvious right? Of cos your individual performance, grade A,B,C or D will help in a certain extent but if some lousy employees just keep making mistakes and cost the company money…then then no matter what, the profit pool will shrink. Anyway, looking at it another way. Companies are profit maximizers ( basic economic theory), your salary is a cost. To maximise profit,they have to minimize cost.
I like the way Positive say ” Great monetary reward comes with taking action and not quacking. If you continue to quack like the 90% always thinking this is no good and that is no safe, how can you be the top 10%? ” .
I think he has mentioned “the law of making money” like newton’s ” law of gravity”.
Action makes money. Just thinking don’t.Just talking don’t.
Anyway,in our opinion, people who take MBA in the hope of getting a job with a salary increment or changing industry are really illogical. Think like a business owner, pls. But that is our opinion only.
song Says:
January 16th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
pls la, they sure earn a lot!
they are consider self employed.
most of them under declared their income! LOL
doit Says:
May 20th, 2009 at 1:06 am
I find this discussion very interesting. So what is the conclusion?
Gillian Says:
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Hi guys,
It’s so sad to see that generally, in Sg, everyone who is employed is always so busy making a circus of other industries and how much other people make, and how much they can be cut in terms of payment etc etc.. It truly is sad to see this happening. I’ve been self employed for a long time now, 7 years in real estate to be exact, and I can tell you, what you read in the ST is not always accurate, if ever.
The reality of real estate, is that out of 10 new comers, 1 will succeed to last at least a year, out of the ten that succeed,3 will remain the industry, the rest will always be “part-timers”, these are generally the people who charge 1/2 commisions receivable, or discount agents as they are generally know as. I’m not even going to go into the debate of why their services may be inferior to that of a professional fulltime realtor.
Lets look at cost vs income of a realtor.
Income $10-$20k/monthly(before expenses) for eg:
Marketing- $800- $2000 on fliers and distribution
Advertising- $360- $8000
Travel- $400- $800 for Gas
Car- $500-1500
Phone bills- $250-$800
Work hours- Average 8-16 hours daily, includes weekends
At anyone time, we have to look at about or up to 30% of the commissions cut due to
-Seller decides not to sell/ goes missing after sale is complete
-Undercut by discount agents
-Buyers not being truthfull/ faithful to the realtor servicing them, ends up buying from other.
-Let your imganition work out other reasons.. I’ve seen too many:/
Now, figure out what’s really left after everything has been deducted.
Lets also look at employment vs self emploment
Pros of employment that do not exist in being self employed:
-Fixed hours/ days
-Fixed Holidays
-Fixed salary
-Fixed bonuses
-Fixed medical & insurance
-Days off/ Leave entitlements
Amoungst other things..
What I’m trying to get at is that it is a good business to be in if you’re prepared to be self employed, but as with anything else, it is not a sales job, it is a business that must be run accordingly in ordder to sustain oneself and the family he/she provides for. Yes, there are ways to cut cost but really, how much cost can be cut before the business starts to suffer.
Also, pls note that the only entity making any real money from recruitment itself is the brokerage, but then again, that has it’s running cost as well.
Please dont be mislead that all realtors are poor, but pls also dont be mislead that all realtors are rich and deserve to suffer at all cost..lolz..
My heart goes out to the realtors struggling to survive during this down time.
eat grass Says:
May 23rd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Very interesting comments here, but some comments are quite discouraging to a potential agent like me.
I have been retrenched but still cannot find a job until now. My friend suggests since I am still not able to get a job, why not become a property agent for the time being, this is better than staying at home to shake legs.
I have a worry because I have zero knowledge and experience in this line, how do I get started out and maybe survive in this line ?
I do not own a car, so I believe this will be one big disadvantage for me if I decide to join this line. Still considering if this line is suitable for me.
Gillian Says:
May 24th, 2009 at 8:36 am
This is not true.. It truly is a mindset. For the first 3 years in real estate, I did not drive either.. it was basically BMW, Bus/Mrt/Walk. There are alot of ways to overcome not driving.. Choose a GTA(area that you want to focus in), HDB is easy for non drivers, reason being almost everything in that area is accessible by bus/walking. Should you choose to do rentals, pls pick condos that are accessible by the MRT line.
There are many ways to make this career work for you, bt your mindset must be right. Take it as something real, give a a 100% shot and commit to it. Dont try it if you’re going to try and see, the end justifies the means, know that you want to do this and find a way to make it work. If you go in with a part time attitude, you will get part time results.. And realtors are very sharp, they can sense a fly by nite agent, and most will take you for a ride. If you commit to this, other realtors will take you more seriously, help you succeed, help you close the deal, and if you are new but keen, they will help you through the process.
I wish you well, but pls also take note to do some homework.. you’ll need the right team more then a right broker.
Alex-px Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Totally agree with Gillian. The BMW (bus/mrt/walk) was also one of my most memorable journey during my initial years. The income will be fantastic if you have the winning attitude. I have also witness part-timers creating success by their winning attitude. They then will commit full time. It is not so much on the strategy one takes, it is the belief, attitude, desire and passion which drives them to constantly break their initial years. For “eat grass”, Be prepared for a bumpy yet fufilling ride. There will always be grass to eat. “No great achievements will ever surface without pressure!” Good Luck!!
Alex-px Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 12:39 am
Qutoed by “adiemuso” – My comment on this – [Every industry, job, business in life looks like a triangle and a pyramid. Can we have 20 CEOs and 2 employees?? Or 100 top agents and 2 not so good agents?? Chances are that not high as this is the REAL WORLD. By discouraging others before the final whistle blows serves no purpose to others. What "adiemuso" has stated is the REAL WORLD. The question now should be, "Do you really believe yourself among the top???"]
==
Alex-px Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 12:45 am
“Why must one climb the high and rocky mountains when he can choose to sleep well at home?” Without knowing one’s core purpose, nothing great will be done. This will be the first question I will like to pose to anyone interested to join our industry. Welcome aboard people!
sounds like you made it Says:
May 25th, 2009 at 8:16 am
hey congrats big talker sounds like you made it
eat grass Says:
May 29th, 2009 at 2:02 am
Thank you to Alex-px and others with your encouraging words. After much thought these few days, I decide to give my full commitment into this industry to try it out. Hopefully one day I can be as successful as you gentlemen and ladies.
Commercial Specialist Says:
May 29th, 2009 at 9:49 am
You need to try out to see what areas you enjoy.
HDB is selling Roofs
Condo is selling Dreams
Landed is selling Status
GCB is selling Ego
I am selling Solutions for Commercial/Industrial Real Estate!!!
eat grass Says:
June 1st, 2009 at 11:30 am
Commercial Specialist, thanks for the nice summary.
Gillian Says:
June 4th, 2009 at 9:53 am
hahahah… commercial specialist.. that’s so true..
can u email me your contact, i have a deal to work out with u.. gill@privateproperty.com.sg
cheers mate..
hunter Says:
June 5th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Hey Gillian,
I agree with what you said. The right team is important. I’m shopping around for a right team and company to join. So what’s your advice on picking the right team?
eat grass Says:
June 10th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
I start to meet and get calls from people from all walks of life since my decision to join this line as a property agent.
Sometimes I get scolded from people for nothing (maybe due to my clients’ higher or lower in their price expectation).
How to handle such rude callers or customers ? Hope some experienced agents can help a rookie like me. Thanks in advance.
veteran Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 12:04 am
don’t take their scoldings or even insults to heart. my tip: just focus on closing deals. it’s tempting for idealistic agents to want to be frank and open in their dealings, but after a while, you’ll realize it actually doesn’t matter. learn from lawyers and say what you need to say to close the deal. good luck.
Alex-Px Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Dear Eat Grass,
Do understand our nature of the business. Its a people business. My tip: People get rude and scold because of the reaction and words we use on them. Reflect and understand how to handle them well. Focus with your heart filled with passion and joy to help them. Managed their expectations well. You can pick up books regarding “words to use” or you can hear how your manager speaks on the phone. Good luck!!
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June 14th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
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