High COE Prices – Can You Afford That Car?

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High COE Prices – Can You Afford That Car?

March 24th, 2010


The latest COE Bidding Results are out. With the exception of the motorcycle category, all other categories recorded their highest prices in recent years.

To buy a small car, you now have to pay $28,389 for that “Certificate of Entitlement”. (I heard an NUS degree costs less. :) )

Car dealers have also promptly adjusted their car prices upwards, some by more than $10k.

Previously, I said one should make at least $7,650 in order to prudently own a car. Maybe now it should be even more.

If you are a car owner, do you (and your spouse) make more than $7,650/mth?

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168 Responses to “High COE Prices – Can You Afford That Car?”

  1. Aaron Says:

    Admin I hope by saying that “an NUS degree costs less” it isn’t an attempt to slight our local graduates. It does a great disservice to yourself, especially when your site is considered respectable enough to be quoted in the media.

    Scholars apart, I do not see a difference between graduating from a local uni and an overseas one. Many top scoring students from Raffles and Hwa Chong are currently at NUS. In comparison I’ve known of plenty from other JCs, with inferior results, going to supposedly top schools like LSE. In fact, for faculties like Med and Law, those that go overseas are those who couldn’t make it into NUS.

    An NUS degree may not cost very much, but that does not mean it isn’t worth very much.

  2. cheapshot Says:

    quoted in media?! but the media with all its lowest ranked journalists, is as cheap as this useless site, which does nothing but take some publicly available numbers, sort and rehash them, and report the results as facts (look at the top 100 jobs post). why are we still reading this. i’m out of here.

  3. Earn Online Income Says:

    It is getting more expensive to own a car for average Singaporeans and the roads are gettingmore and more congested.

  4. earning$$ Says:

    depends if the person/ household needs the car.
    the car had brought great convenience to me
    can’t board the train every morning, and taxis are too expensive…
    just need to get a smaller car if the price keeps going up!

  5. Nath Says:

    I am a working professional, for me I find driving license itself costs too much. (around 2K-3K). Forgot about owning car.

  6. lucky Says:

    @ Aaron – Admin was making a point on increasing cost of COE. You digressed grossly to the point of filling your entire post about scholars and degrees because of a statement in brackets. Chill it.

    For me, lucky I bought 3 mths earlier when COE was only 18K for my >1600cc car. Guess it will be a long long time before I change another one! :D

  7. wish Says:

    i too bought a Toyota Wish just a few months back (nevermind it’s declining reputation in the states). COE was a lucky $17k.

    i heard that when COE prices were low, car dealers did not lower their prices, but when COE prices shot up, they were quick to raise prices (not surprising).

    but the point i want to make is that given the same “bundled” price (car+coe), it’s better to have a high COE. so when COE prices were low, it doesn’t necessarily mean that car buyers got a good deal. you have to look at the bundled prices.

  8. Amused Says:

    A NUS degree costs a pittance (less than $4k for 6 months hahaha) but is worth nothing. Which makes it not a poor deal.

  9. Amused Says:

    Of course we know when you say those in overseas law and med are those who didn’t make it to NUS law and med, you are referring to the ordinary overseas schools. Since, there are thousands of universities on the planet, obviously the majority of those approved by MOH and AG chambers are not of the elite.

    Why don’t you try to get your schoolmates in the law or med fac to apply to Cambridge? None would get in.

    Yet, the quality of education and experience, as well as research achievements of those supposed ordinary overseas universities, though on par with ordinary NUS, is leaps and bounds ahead of NUS. As everyone knows NUS has no achievements whatsoever, and till this day chalked up not a single Nobel Laureate. Uni of Melbourne? At least 10. Australian National? At least 10. NUS is only good at begging top institutions overseas for tie-ups to latch onto their prestigious names, with nothing to offer on the table.

    Also, it’s an NUS delusion that anyone who goes overseas apart from the scholars “could not” get into NUS law or med or any equivalent fac. There are tons of students who apply directly to Australian and UK law/med schools and didn’t bother with NUS because they have no intention to staying behind.

    Studying overseas is a lifestyle experience and par for the course for the affluent. I even know one chairman of a listed company who started a schoolarship to send Singaporeans to his alma mater, a reputable state university in the US. His father went there, he went there, and his kids will go there.

    All the top students in the top 2 JCs aspire to go overseas, because the elite and top sector in these JCs are creamed off overseas. These students are in these JCs, and they know who are the ones who are creamed off, who are the elites. The ones left behind, are those who aren’t smart enough to be a scholar or whose parents aren’t well to do enough.

    Even if there is any student who didn’t get into NUS med but is now doing medicine in say, UNSW or UWA, I’d say good for him. All of them will turn out to be better and more sophisticated than the frogs in the well stuck here.

  10. Nusucky Says:

    That’s why NUS stands for Never Use Sense.

  11. amusedatamused Says:

    Someone sounds like sour grapes/ went to aussie!

  12. Amused Says:

    I didn’t go to Aussie, but I’d rather have gone there than end up in any place where the degree is worth less than toilet paper haha.

    Not only is a local degree worthless overseas, it’s so sucky it’s close to worthless in its own country. LOL. No wonder the government itself sends its top brains overseas.

  13. amusedatamused Says:

    nus law and med degrees..worthless in Singapore!! scraping the bottom of the barrel..the fellas at yll and btc. wonder what their grads are doing now..must be sweeping roads I think.

    thanks for enlightening me amused! you make so much sense now that I think about it..could you elaborate on where you graduated from so I can tell my kids to go there?

  14. John Says:

    It’s poignant but I have to agree with Amused… I did my undergrad studies here and only realised how insignificant an SG degree is in the international landscape when I went for my INSTEP. I came to discover later on at my workplace that the so-called ‘ordinary overseas’ university graduates are quite well sought after as compared to my other local uni counterparts. While we all know that these universities have generally ‘more forgiving’ selection criteria (but I’m not so sure of medicine), the experience of having an education overseas has perhaps sharpened these people with better survival skills. And perhaps that’s why the government itself sends its top brains overseas. If you have been observant enough during your uni days, you would have realised that the local universities employ a majority of faculty members who were graduates of these ‘ordinary’ overseas universities; not NUS or NTU grads. It’s a bit early to say for SMU or even SUTD though but the trend may probably follow… Trust me, if you have had the opportunity to work overseas (in large companies based in developed countries, especially), you will agree with me.

  15. Aaron Says:

    I knew that there would be the usual people going around how worthless an NUS degree is after my comment. Honestly I do not take it to heart because I’m living an extremely comfortable lifestyle based on my NUS degree.

    Nevertheless, I’d like to point out the flaws in Amused arguments:

    (1)MOH and MinLaw approves of top university degrees from US and UK. Unless you are saying that the likes Oxbridge and Harvard are not part of the ‘elite’. Perhaps Amused only considers his degree ‘elite’ enough. Unfortunately, most of our overseas cohort do not come from these top universities, but from second tier ones, especially the Aussie ones.

    (2)I dare say that more than half of those who make it to NUS Med and Law could’ve made it into Cambridge. I know because I was accepted with 4As. You’d find that more than half the population of NUS Med and Law has 4As.

    (3) Amused talks about educational experience. I’m sure he has not experienced studying at NUS. I’ve been at NUS and 2 overseas universities. The experience was different, but I’d not say that any of them is ‘better’. Simply saying that an overseas education is better shows how bigoted Amused is.
    As for Nobel Laureates, let’s just say that I’ve never heard of a Singaporean who went to an Australian uni and won a Nobel prize before. Have you?
    NUS is highly regarded because of it’s stringent admission requirements, especially in faculties like Med and Law. Your ‘ordinary overseas universities’ accept any Singaporean with money. I do not say that the universities are no good, just that those Singaporeans who go are no good.

    (4) Those in the industry all know that those who study overseas for Law and Med are those who couldn’t make it to NUS. The statistics show this. Amused is simply in denial.

    (5) Studying overseas is expensive. Many kids from the heartlands who score straight As may be unfortunate in their scholarship applications, or have no intention to be under a bond. That is why they do not go overseas. And in any case, no one would want to go to an ‘ordinary overseas university’.

    (6) Funny enough I was from a top JC. And many of my friends never had the intention of going overseas to study straight after JC. Wonder where Amused was from.

    (7) Always the familiar ‘frogs in the well argument. And always coming from those who had to go to Aussie universities because they could not make it to NUS Med. Just because one has lived in Aus for a few years does not make him any more experienced in life. Most NUS grads have at least experienced a year overseas on exchange. I have lived in HK, London and New York. Who is Amused calling a frog in the well?

  16. Aaron Says:

    John, if you have been working for a number of years, you would realize that it is the work experience that counts. Your degree gets you through the first door; your experience opens up for you other doors.

    My NUS degree has opened many doors for me locally. Other than Oxbridge and a few top US universities, no employer in Singapore regards any other university better.
    Overseas, again unless you obtain a degree from Oxbridge or a top US university, it doesn’t matter. These ‘ordinary overseas universities’ are only recognized in their own locale. However, with a few years experience working in a MNC in Singapore, you’d be very much sought after overseas.

    Hope u do not continue to feel inferior about yourself!

  17. John Says:

    Yep, I agree with Aaron. The piece of paper opens the 1st few doors well. But based on my own personal experiences, the bottom half of our grads (regardless of CAP; I’m talking about survival skills) do not fare any better than those who had ‘drank western ink’ in general. On the contrary, I have seen some who have turned the table around to their advantage. Several classmates of mine got less than 3 Bs for their A’levels (they’re the bottom of my CG) went aussie/UK for their undergrad. They’re mostly senior exec or managerial by 30. Only those who went to the civil service fared so-so. The so-called ‘better ones’ who stayed for local uni are performing below them so far, even though they graduated farely well (CAP > 4). I observed the same trend amongst newcomers and subordinates at my workplace. Maybe it’s coincidence but at least for my circle of life, that is that. My wife shares my views so we’ll prob send our little ones overseas if we can afford it.

  18. On the fence Says:

    Guys, i think you are all biased. Personally, i had the experience of studying in both Aussie (for my degree) and Singapore (NUS MBA). My personal view is that both are equal. As long as your uni is not one of the ivy-league schools, the rest are all the same and open the same doors. Perhaps local degrees (NUS/NTU/SMU) have one advantage over aussie degrees and that is they are preferred by the Singapore Government (make sense – just like aussie degree preferred by Aussie Government). I have seen aussie grads doing better and earning more than local grads and vice versa so it really depends on individuals. For myself, i am managing a department in a foreign MNC and my direct reports are mostly local grads from NUS and NTU but this is due to the fact that i have stronger work capabilities than them rather than me having a better degree. Hope this helps.

  19. jack Says:

    if you’re a FOREIGNER, or a SCHOLAR, you’re first class.

    if you’re singaporean from oxbridge, ucl, lse, ivvies, stanford, mit etc, you’re second class.

    if you’re singaporean from local university, you’re third class.

    if you’re SINGAPOREAN from other uk & us universities, or aussie universities, you’re bottom class.

    this is the reality of singaporean society. live with it.

  20. On the fence Says:

    Jack: Not sure which class you belong to but how do you define “class”? Based on salary alone or ??? I know quite a number of Singaporeans from other uk/us/aussie unis who are earning more than some Singaporeans from ivy league schools. Perhaps you need to broaden your horizon and mindset. :)

  21. classless Says:

    i agree with jack. foreigners are top class, in the premiere league. citizens graduating from local schools are at the bottom, division I or division II players. those without a degree are worse – they are not even playing in the league. they are struggling in the primordial soup, in the yucky sticky smelly environment with a mere glimmer of hope to evolve thyself into some basic life form.

  22. On the fence Says:

    Classless: i guess you need to broaden your horizon as well. Bet you have never met those who have a ITE or O levels cert only but earning more than a graduate from an ivy league school. Academic achievements alone will not guarantee success in life. There are many other aspects that play a part and they include interpersonal skills, EQ, working attitude & aptitude and even luck. I can guarantee that a grad from an ivy league school will not go far without any of the above mentioned characteristics.

  23. classless Says:

    nobody is denying that there are always outliers. a rich towkay with an ITE cert and an ivy league grad without “the above mentioned characteristics” are both possibilities but they are outliers.

    i bet you have not seen the bell curve.

    come on. we are talking about the general case here. all other things equal, the average ivy league grad will have a MUCH MORE BETTER chance at achieving a good life than the average ITE cert holder.

    i don’t know about you, but i think most parents prefer that their children go to ivy league schools than to ITE.

    no sane parent will tell his children “don’t worry, just broaden your horizon, there are 1 or 2 ITE cert holders who are millionaires, so you can attend ITE and be a millionaire too.” cos it just doesn’t make sense.

  24. On the fence Says:

    Classless: Yes i agree with what you have said but the previous messages posted by the rest, esp Jack and Aaron, were implying that grads from local or aussie/uk/us will not have any bright futures and those from ivy league are guaranteed with success. That is what i am actually rebutting. When you joined in this conversation, you did not clearly specify that you are looking from a general perspective.

  25. Cantab Papa Mama Says:

    This Jack is obviously a retard who’s just mouthing off rubbish, and is obviously stupid enough for me to be certain that he graduated from a local university.

    As for people in the law and med schools here, it’s well known among anyone who attended a top JC that almost everyone in these 2 facs (now 3, with SMU’s law school) are people who applied for a scholarship and a place in a HPYSM/Oxbridge school and was rejected.

    You can tell how crappy local universities are, if not by anything else then by how its own students are ashamed of them. The proof of the pudding is in the eating . if the universities here offered them such a nice experience, why is it that their own students and graduates try their darnest to be called overseas grads, by pursuing some short one year’s masters program overseas after that? These people also subsequently tell others in the office that they are overseas grads, not local and later get found out.

    You can also tell by how they desperately try to go on overseas exchange programmes, and proclaim to be overseas grads or list the overseas exchange schools in their facebook profiles claiming to be an alumni of the overseas universities yet they leave out the fact that they are enrolled in the local schools!

    It’s so obvious it is painful.

  26. John Says:

    Jack: your classification system seems a tad too generalized. In my opinion, that applies probably only to crossing the 1st few hurdles i.e. clinching one’s initial employment after graduation. At the end of the day, it’s one’s work performance & practical experience that counts fundamentally: your sales, bottomlines, targets met, innovations made & projects successfully implemented. Ultimately, all these go into your CV. Unless maybe you’re in the 2nd-tier civil service (i.e. neither A.O. nor super-scale); they can be terribly paper-qualification biased. For the sake of all those young ones reading this forum, please do not insinuate that getting into a ‘branded’ school (you may include local unis at your descretion but I won’t) is the be all, end all of life. And also for those still schooling (especially in Uni), the last thing we want from any of them is to feel that graduating from any certain school gives them any (if there really is any) right to condescend the rest of the work force. If you are (really) good, don’t rest on you laurels. Prove it (in the real world).

  27. Cantab Papa Mama Says:

    John, don’t be deluded. Of course the school you manage to get in and graduate from are a statement of your competency level and potential. If not, the IBs and bulge brackets would not be hiring from the Ivy League schools (no, a measly one year master’s in an American or British university does not count). Do you know how many people from Singapore’s A level cohort every year get a place in the elite US schools and Oxbridge? Fewer than 40 in total, when you add the entire number from all JCs who manage to enrol in all these universities. That’s how few. In fact less than 5 to 10 people get a place in Harvard or MIT. More in Cambridge though but still very exclusive

    It’s just that Jack got the rankings and scales all wrong. And he’s obviously one of the poorly qualified and lowly paid losers with a huge insecurity complex against foreigners (check out how he thinks foreigners are superior to all Singaporeans). Everyone I know either feels neutral towards foreigners (are not threatened by them) or find foreigners beneath them.

    John is only half right. The university you attend is half of it. He neglected to add that proportionately, the graduates from each certain academic background end up in the corresponding social bracket. This is by and large accurate. Obviously sour grapes like Aaron attempt to console themselves by stating statistical outliers.

    This is the reason they are retards, which is why they can’t understand basic principles and draw conclusions from a set of statistical data.

    As for Aaron, this is the reason you were never Cambridge material. You actually think that a measly 4As is all you need to get into Cambridge. Or perhaps you’re one of those naive fools who think that 4A is all you need you get the most prestigious scholarships.

    I can’t believe that NUS med and law actually have close to half its cohorts without even the most pathetic 4As. This is why NUS med is nowhere near Cambridge med. Now I know even the least selective courses in the elite universities have a far higher calibre of student body than local universities’ supposed “best” courses.

    Finally, you want to compare student calibre? Whats the proportion of students in med compared to the rest of the student bodies of all three universities? Please lah.

    NUS med cohort size is but a handful and even then they cannot with one of Cambridge or HYPSM’s least selective and easy-to-get-in departments! And who makes up the bulk of local university students? NOT the medicine students, but it’s students from the dumping grounds like NUS real estate, Arts, Science and NTU engineering!

  28. No Use Says:

    I’ve interviewed hundreds of people for jobs, and the local graduates fare the worse.

    Below the elite graduates who are on top, are the graduates with from Australia, UK and US. They fare much better than the local grads, most of whom cannot speak proper English and have not been properly equipped with industrial skills that are required by the economy.

    Local universities should look into updating its curriculum urgently rather than whoring themselves to overseas universities, begging them for tie-ups and “brand affiliation”.

    And Aaron, it’s shameful comparing any local university with any top university. There are only about 14,000 A level and IB students, and there are about the same number enrolled in the three local universities every year. This means that almost anyone who manages to make it to do his A levels or IB, WILL get a place in a local university. Would you like to know the admission rate of elite American and British universities? I think it will break your heart.

    Aaron, you asked Amused to name you a Singaporean who won a Nobel prize in an Australian university. Why don’t you name me a Singaporean who did so in a local university, this should not be difficult logically, since the local universities take in Singaporeans en masse in a bargain basement manner. Yet, none did. Worse still is the fact that no local university has any Nobel achievement to speak of, unlike the Australian universities Amused cited. Clearly there is a glaring disparity in the quality of education one eventually receives in NUS and what the same chap receives in the prestigious Australian universities, even if he doesn’t become a Nobel laureate himself! LOL.

    Why is that no local university can ever reach for the stars, and produce either a Nobel laureate among its alumni (an indication of superb admission standards or superb teaching quality therefore producing Nobel prize winners), or have a Nobel laureate as its faculty member, a clear indication of the research achievements and superb teaching quality that can be enjoyed at said university? None…LOL

    You also said that you “have lived in HK, London and New York”. Why don’t you dare to say how long? 2 weeks is it? Or 6 months? 1 year? You’re no different from the other local grads with ‘elite envy’ who try desperately to enrol yourself in some measly one year master’s overseas that no one cares about (a master’s is really worth nothing) in order to bridge the gulf between your frog in the well self and overseas grads, and bring yourself a little closer to the overseas grads. As you’ve admitted, you’re one of the desperados who latch onto the pathetic short exchange programmes to bridge this gulf too.

    Other than the brand name and academic quality, a significant cache attached to a good overseas education is the cross-cultural exposure, worldliness, street-smarts and independence that overseas (top) graduates are known for. And no, your master’s program or 6 month exchange does none of it. You may as well save the money and pay for therapy instead. Cos NO employer is viewing you as an overseas grad.

  29. Aaron Says:

    Cantab Papa Mama is one of those who was never amongst the best, and can only spout his nonsense online, disparaging others so that he can make himself feel better.

    I don’t have to prove anything. I was accepted by Cambridge with 4As, simple as that. I stayed in Singapore because of financial considerations. Yes, now I have a ‘measly’ Master’s degree from that university. I’m so pathetic, huh?

    I have lots of JC friends from NUS Med & Law. Many had the same grade profile as me, and better. They are so pathetic, earning only seven figures a year.

    Funny how all my friends are amongst the top scorers in their cohort, Funny how they are now earning much more than Cantab Papa Mama can imagine, yet they are being ridiculed online by someone with a ridiculous nickname. I guess some people just have to release their frustrations from all their failures in life somewhere.

    You can only know the true situation when u have been amongst the best. Cantab Papa Mama clearly has no clue.

  30. Aaron Says:

    Well No Use, i guess my Cambridge Master’s is really worth nothing.. Can’t even get a job ‘interviewing people’. What a joke.

    Singapore universities cater to the local population. The government makes sure 30% of each cohort gets an university education. I do not deny admission standards at the one end is low. But lots of top students enter local universities each year, especially at the top faculties.

    In contrast, Singaporeans who study in Australian universities have typically one grade profile: their grades can’t get them into any better universities. Ask the Singaporean cohort in Australian universities now. They wouldn’t tell you its their first choice. Most of them will tell you they are studying there because they couldn’t get into their faculty of choice in local universities.

    I do not deny that Australian universities have their strengths. But the reality is that Singaporeans who go there are second rate.

    Again, I do not have to prove myself. I went on exchange. I went for my Master’s. Am I lacking in “cross-cultural exposure, worldliness, street-smarts and independence”? Well, stating that overseas grads have these attributes while local grads do not is clearly a prejudiced view which I do not have to answer.

  31. Aaron Says:

    I do not wish to be drawn into further arguments. Many of these arguments I’ve seen online too often. The ‘overseas educated’ always make the argument of how local grads are ‘frogs in the well’ and how local universities have not produced Nobel laureates.

    Anyone with a mind would know that these arguments are not convincing. Nobel laureates are clearly outliers and do not serve as a gauge on the usual student population. They also do not become Nobel winners only by virtue of their university. The number of Nobel Laureates is therefore a poor indicator of the strength of the university.

    And are overseas grads more street smart and independent? Such a sweeping statement cannot hardly be backed up.

    I look at social realities. My friends comprise of PSC/SAFOS scholars, those who got into Oxbridge and top US universities, doctors and lawyers who graduated from NUS. All of us are living comfortable lifestyles, getting a good income.

    If you were from a top JC as I was, you would know the reality. Top scorers have the usual choices in their minds. Get a good scholarship, get into a top UK or US university, or get into Law and Medicine. Australian universities were never on our lists. They have been disparaged so much by our ministers that no Singaporean in their right mind would make them first choice.

    As for other second-tier overseas universities, they are considered second-tier for a reason. You would never find top scorers there. At least you’d find top scorers in local universities: those who found an overseas education too expensive, and did not wish to be under a bond.

    People like Cantab Papa Mama and No Use are plenty in online message boards. I make it a point sometimes to rebut them, even though it’s a complete waste of my time. We all know very well how these people are faring in real life.

  32. yawnz Says:

    i don’t see any credence in graduates who can’t even stick to the subject matter. Singapore degrees, overseas degrees – all useless when you go out of point.

    Go create another debate somewhere else.

  33. local grads are amusing Says:

    Aaron, you must be from TJC or NJC and think you’re top. You are definitely way out of the league in the topic we’re on judging from the various slips you made.

    Everyone, even the taxi drivers here, knows that top students in RJC and HCI all aspire to go overseas to elite schools. This is a well known fact that even people still in secondary school know. The ones in RJ and HCI who stay behind are the ones “left behind”. There is even a Wall Street Journal news report that branded RJC as an “Ivy League Machine”. Its students ALL aspire to go overseas. Because this is where the cream of the cohort go. And students in RJ and HC are exposed to the concept and exposed to the cream of the cohort. Because of this exposure, they know what is the truth.

    RJ and HCI have a systematic infrastructure in place to ensure there are a crop of students from there that get into these elite universities. The infrastructure include teachers who double as career counsellors, scholarship counsellors and who are well-versed in the goings-on of the top universities and the scholarship system. They even know a lot about the civil service because they counsel their students on that too regarding scholarships!

    Not only do you need to start reading newspapers and talking to people outside of those who ended up in local pathetic university like yourself, it would help your NUS ego to stick your head out of the sand and open your eyes to reality.

    Wall Street Journal on RJC the gateway to the Ivy League

    “Teh Su Ching began gunning for the Ivy League when she was just 11 years old. To get there, the young Singaporean beefed up her grades to win admission to a feeder school for Singapore’s Raffles Junior College, the government school that landed her older brother in the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and other graduates in a host of top universities abroad.”

    A news report on local universities offering free places without application to science and maths Olympiads but none of them wants to go even though the places are presented on a platter to them.

    “Last year, three winners of the first National Science Talent Search Awards were also offered university places here.

    One of them, Choy Dawen, 19, who was an Olympiad science gold medallist in 1995, did not accept the offer and is now studying physics at the Massachesetts Institute of Technology in the United States.

    Six out of the nine gold medallists in the science Olympiads since 1989 have chosen to study abroad. Two, who are waiting for their A-level results, are also planning to go overseas. The remaining student is still in Raffles Junior College.”

  34. qwerty Says:

    Aussie grads are better than local. *snicker* right dude. keep on thinking that way and stick to your 2k/mth job while you’re at it.

    cantab: your comparison is pretty accurate, but the us universities are grad law degrees so saying ox/cam is better is correct. but they don’t take in that many. the next best for law is nus, as you should well know.

  35. Amused Says:

    Aaron, you are seriously deluded.
    I think you’re mistaken. You actually believe that overseas degrees except the top ones are esteemed only in that country. Haha. Doesn’t that mean that SG degree is also only recognised in SG? Don’t tell me you believe in the fantasy that SG as a country, is more powerful and has more clout than first world countries?! The difference between recognised only in SG and recognised only in the US is that SG is a little red dot. When you look up SG on the globe, you can only see the word Singapore but can’t see the space it occupies on the scale. Your insular tunnel vision is the very reason no one should have their kids end up in a local university.

    US degree – recognised worldwide
    UK degree – recognised in all Commonwealth countries
    Local degree – recognised only in SG yet is 2nd class in Singapore, nothing but benchwarmer in image.

    Otherwise, why is it that local interviewers and the government prize the graduates (whether Singaporeans or foreigners) from top universities and not local ones? The fact that the top brains here in RJ/HC go overseas, regardless of whether on bonded terms or not, is telling of this. Consultancies and bulge brackets only hire top graduates, for instance.

    And you clearly has extremely poor comprehension skills, a problem that afflicts all local grads.

    Aaron said:

    “MOH and MinLaw approves of top university degrees from US and UK. Unless you are saying that the likes Oxbridge and Harvard are not part of the ‘elite’. Perhaps Amused only considers his degree ‘elite’ enough. Unfortunately, most of our overseas cohort do not come from these top universities, but from second tier ones, especially the Aussie ones.”

    I never said that Oxbridge and Harvard are not elite. You definitely have an intellectual handicap and are unable to understand simple English, like many local grads I met.

    In an insecure manner you responded to admin that you think local universities are so “good” (…speechless) despite its very cheap cost and diminished value because you claim that there are instances of overseas grads who had only gone overseas after they fail to enter the local law or med schools. So I replied that out of the list of approved universities by MOH and AG Chambers to practise, there are so many, and considering that there are at least 10,000 universities worldwide, it isn’t hard to find some in the list that you think you can cite to be on par with local Us.

    But the reality is that the standard of local colleges is so far off from that of top universities (which are all overseas), because compared to top universities like Cambridge, scarcely no one in NUS med or law would get in. 4A does not cut it. I know at least 20 people with 4As and 2 S distinctions who don’t get in! You really don’t know what you’re talking about, this subject is totally out of your league and you’re definitely not from a top JC. (YOU think you are but you’re not) .

    It also appears that you actually believe in your lie that anyone not in NUS or NTU or SMU desperately wanted to go there and failed to. The fact is that tons of people, especially the rich or/and the very smart apply to overseas universities, without considering local at all because staying behind is a disgusting idea to them.

    You also claim that all or a significant number of the dumpees who end up in local Us could have gone overseas if not because they are poor, and although the fact is that they are simply not intelligent and are in the league to bag a prestigious scholarship, which is extremely selective, you claim that it’s because of the “bond”, which is rubbish, since the top of the cohort clamour for these bonded scholarships and dream of attending top universities, experiencing four enjoyable years of college life, and groomed to take top positions in their careers when they return.

    Your bond argument can be easily overturned also, by the fact that a significant portion of the scholarship/top university reject do go on to take up local bonded study awards. The bond terms imposed on these dumpees? At least 4 years, only 2 years shorter than the bond of a real scholarship, 6 years. The value? An astonishing difference. The value of an overseas scholarship range from $250k to $500k for the ones with monthly salaries on top of allowances while an NUS degree would only cost the sponsor of a local bursary award $6k a year. So please don’t tell us that there are lots of peope willingly going to a lowly local university because of a 6 year bond.

    The fact is that hardly anyone from the most selective departments locally woud make it to Cambridge.
    Fact, the bulk of the people who form the local undergrad cohort are from the dumping grounds, and not the selective departments.
    Fact, the government sends its top brains overseas,
    Fact, no local university has ever and will ever have a Nobel affiliation, testament of its poor standing.
    Fact, almost everyone in the local law or med schools are rejects of scholarships and top university places. Hello! ask around and open your eyes.
    Fact, the top brains aspire to go overseas. And no, you are not one of them because you’re not one of the top brains. You do not know that, because you did not even have the privilege of having socialising and interacting with the top brains.
    Fact, the rich go overseas, regardless of chosen course or specialisation or their grades all their lives. Its simply a lifestyle for them, a tradition. For many cases going overseas is something confirmed and fixed even before they enter JC. The truth is besides all the downsides like bad teacher-ratio size, bad teaching and other stuff, staying here is simply a humdrum compared to a full fledged overseas university experience, which in colloquial terms that maybe you can understan better, is just shiok.

    I once read in a forum here of an observation made by a JC students at the crossroad of decison. And he remarked that ending up in a local university for the unfortunate (either not rich or smart enough) is just ‘sian’. You continue to take the same SBS bus to school, you see your grandaunt’s neighbour in school, you continue to travel to school from the same HDB flat you lived all your life. Most of the time, you continue to be taught by lecturers who speak in that awful Singkie accent. And after class you continue to go to Swensen’s or Cafe Cartel (which does not come from NY contrary to its marketing) for lunch with the same group people you hung out with from primary school to JC. It is simply a sad experience.

    I’m glad for you that you managed to console yourself so adequately to believe that you have had a great time and didn’t get shortchanged. Hundreds of thousand of your fellow graduates who are less deluded do not.

  36. qwerty Says:

    amused: Stick to the areas where you actually know what you are talking about. For law, a lot of the unis on the MinLaw websites are subpar universities with low entry requirements. The only two superior ones are Oxbridge. The rest are not as good as nus, where most of our distinguished bench came from (and whom you have disrespected, I might add)

  37. Aaron Says:

    One last post to reply to your nonsense above. What you said has just confirmed that I came from a top JC. And I got Cambridge with 4As. Many of my friends in NUS Med & Law would have the grade profile to get into Cambridge. You just can’t accept it because you were never in such a position before. Well, live with it.
    I do not even wish to reply to your other senseless, bigoted comments.
    I’m sorry that your second rate overseas qualifications are being despised. That’s a sorry fact of life when you are not good enough.

  38. Amused Says:

    typo, please refer to correct text:
    the fact is that they are simply not intelligent and are NOT in the league to bag a prestigious scholarship, which is extremely selective. You then claim that it’s because of the “bond”, which is rubbish, since the top of the cohort every year clamour for BONDED scholarships and dream of attending top universities, experiencing four enjoyable years of college life, and groomed to take top positions in their careers when they return.

    qwerty: I know full well what I am talking about. I have lots of friends in all walks of life and all manner of profession. It’s you who cannot accept the vision that other people have of you. Perhaps I am a lawyer too. Maybe from Australia. Maybe from Oxbridge. But I will never consider NUS.

    Please tell the forum whether it’s true or not that hideous results like AAB is the average acceptance score of law grads up until 2003/2004. There were 4As but they were the minority. In fact there are more than a handful of ABB who got in. Before then, when people with 4As were far fewer, most of the 4A people were dumped in med school (without S papers or what is called H3 now, they were effectively ruled out for scholarships), not law. People in the local law school openly admit that the local law school is the dumping ground of those who fail to get into medicine.

    The only reason there is a higher incidence of 4A there now is due to dramatic grade inflation: the proportion of people with 4As rose dramatically since 2005. Alas, despite this, still the people in both the med and law schools are PSC rejects. Somethings never change.

    The only reason “most of” the bench “distinguished to only you” is from NUS is because of the large number of people enrolled in NUS. It’s no secret that the Law Society president is headed by a UK grad repeatedly, including the one now.

    To many people, even the grads from the lowest approved Aussie university in the list (perhaps UQ or Monash?) are better hires as they have way more to offer on their CV including life experience and savvy. Get over it.

  39. oonizukar Says:

    “Please tell the forum whether it’s true or not that hideous results like AAB is the average acceptance score of law grads up until 2003/2004.”

    sounds like he is the admin staff of nus! haha! everyone knows the average grade for nus law is and has always been 4 As. get over the fact that u couldn’t get in, loser.

    “People in the local law school openly admit that the local law school is the dumping ground of those who fail to get into medicine.”

    don’t make remarks that u cannot back up, loser. those who get into nus law almost always put it as first choice.

    “It’s no secret that the Law Society president is headed by a UK grad repeatedly, including the one now.”

    everyone knows that the law society is unimportant. when u have the law minister, chief justice and attorney-general being nus grads, your argument seriously stinks, loser.

    “To many people, even the grads from the lowest approved Aussie university in the list (perhaps UQ or Monash?) are better hires”

    to u only, perhaps, loser. everyone in the industry knows aussie degrees are second rate. and all that go to aus to read law are nus-rejects. everyone knows it.

    “Perhaps I am a lawyer too. Maybe from Australia. Maybe from Oxbridge. But I will never consider NUS.”

    no need to consider, u can’t get in, loser. definitely from some lousy aussie uni. rant all u like here, LOSER.

  40. qwerty Says:

    By bench, I meant the judiciary. A fool like you wouldn’t know much better would he? Let me get this straight. Of all the distinguished alumni from the UK..you chose..the president of the law society? Well sorry einstein, but maybe you should do a little research on where the nus law alumni are right now. President of Law Society??!?

    You would consider law from Australia over NUS? Utter rubbish.

    Those acceptance results are the same for the UK’s London Unis outside Oxbridge. Selective..selective..I already told you that Oxbridge is better. Everyone knows that.

    UQ? Monash? I have to say..you must have gone to Australia!

    Keep trying my friend! Tell me how bad my life will be in the future for starters! I like the clueless..especially the ones who have to justify the huge cost of their overseas education. Keep going!

  41. mba Says:

    wow.. heated arguments among the lawyers. Let me know who’s gonna sit at the Judge’s Podium ^^

    As for me, recent hikes in COE kinda…sux…

    I wanted to get a 330CI , ended up having to ‘wait n see’ for a while more, as i’d rather put the cash for a condo down-payment, and hope that the price of the condo will inflate further, so i can get some extra pocket money to date more lawyers xD

    Great Going, guys… I truly admire NUS Law students by the way, especially the ladies. Met quite a few at some chic clubs. They’re really hot and smart and they surely know how to play with words and guys… =)

  42. entreprenuer Says:

    Why dont you people stop arguing about a piece of paper and get some REAL LIFE WORK EXPERIENCE.
    Stop harping on a degree, step outside and see the world.
    Then you will realize that a degree is less than half of the story.

  43. Amusing Says:

    “Amused” is another one of those who went overseas to a third class uni for a few years and think the world of himself. But the truth is he just couldn’t cut it in sg. just another quitter. spend some money buy a degree, anyone can do it!


    i don’t see australian unis on the list! wonder why.

  44. Amusing Says:

    Amused: “Maybe from Australia. Maybe from Oxbridge. But I will never consider NUS.”

    this statement reeks of sour grapes. typical quitter. go ahead and rant about how ‘lousy’ nus med & law is. in the end.. only these ‘lousy’ grads are laughing their way to the bank.

  45. whatsthefuss Says:

    what’s the fuss? i was from nus, my brother’s from oxford. i outscored him at the A’s. i got myself into nus med because i wanted to be a doctor. and where else better to study med when i intend to be a doctor here? would i have been rejected by oxbridge? i don’t know. applications take a bit of luck other than good grades. judging people from which university they’re from is just silly.

  46. John Says:

    Amusing: please do not be over-reliant on the PSC list as a yardstick. Many Local(Open) or SGS(Local) Awardees (Hons 1st incl.) hardly make it to the Admin Service (the quintessence, fyi). Many of them do not even hit 5-figure salaries (or cross the superscale) until the age of 40 (or even later). The PSC list is a vague guideline and it may not accurately represent the ‘real’ market’s hiring sentiments.

  47. Oh Pls Says:

    hmm….i have no idea about Ivy League grads but i can provide an example on Aussie Vs Local Grad. I joined my current company (consulting company) at the same time with a few local grads with 1st class honours. 8 years down the road, i am now the consulting manager and they are all reporting to me now. So what 2nd rated Aussie degrees are you guys ranting about? Get a life. Its your ability that counts and brings you far in life and not where you graduated from.

  48. John Says:

    And to be fair to the Australian Unis, please bear in mind that many serving cabinet ministers and perm secs were graduates of Australian Unis. They were offered Colombo Plan Scholarships (past equivalent of PSC OMS – some of you may not be old enough to know this) to these schools:

    Mah Bow Tan – UNSW
    Lee Boon Yang – UQ
    Peter Ong – Adelaide
    Teo Ming Kian – Monash
    Khaw Boon Wan – Newcastle, Sydney
    & the late Ong Teng Cheong – Adelaide

    I also know of at least 2 perm secs who were from UWA.

    The only reason I could derive for their exclusion from the PSC-OMS list now is that even the poly grads can get into these schools & finish with a Hons 1 or 2A; not that they are not good; they must be good but just that it probably dilutes the ‘exclusiveness’ of these schools. Imagine an A.O. on par with someone the education system determined as between 75th Percentile to 35th Percentile during the O’levels.

  49. Amusing Says:


    take a good look at the list of president’s scholars in the past decade. do any go to australia? take a good look at all psc scholarships given in the past decade. tells u a lot, doesn’t it?

    no top singaporean jc student thinks of going to aussie unis. they think of top uk, us, china unis, nus med&law. singaporeans who go to aussie unis go there because they can’t get any better. that is a fact.

    John don’t point out examples from ages ago. we all know that aus unis are just the dumping grounds for singaporeans NOW.

  50. woofwoof Says:

    wah got stupid people go to Singapore and China Uni!

  51. Amusing Says:

    the dog thinks he’s smarter than president and psc scholars.

  52. local Says:

    fact: we have president & psc scholars at local unis

    fact: we have many other top students at local unis who rejected scholarships to go overseas


    fact: we have ministers, AOs, judges, CEOs from local unis. our medical and legal sectors are controlled by them.

    i dare those who say that local unis are not good to go public with it. give us your name here and i’ll give you mine. i’ve never heard of anyone saying that local grads are not good in the open; all like to hide behind the anonymity of the internet. it’s not hard to figure out why. other than having nothing to substantiate their claims, they themselves can’t say that they are better than those ministers, judges, CEOs & scholars etc mentioned above.

  53. Oh Pls Says:

    i think amusing is just a stubborn old fool. nothing seems to get into his puny brain. well if even real life examples of aussie grads doing better in life than top local grads are not good enough to change his mindset then i guess we will just let him rot and live in his own imaginery world LOL

  54. Oh Pls Says:

    local: i think we are not really arguing whether local grads are good enough or not but rather whether they are really definitely better than grads from other countries like aussie unis etc. i have tons of examples to prove that aussie grads are doing equally fine or even better than some top local grads so i have no idea why some of you guys are still so adamant that top local grads will definitely do better and achieve more in life. i am not arguing that aussie grads are better. all i am saying is that top local grads do not mean smarter and better, especially in the working society where you will be tested in alot more other aspects.

  55. Amusing Says:

    when you run out of proper arguments you start being personal and calling names. pathetic.

    all i did was state FACTS that Oh Pls in his fantasy world cannot accept.

    FACT: top student do not consider aussie universities. they are the dumping ground for singaporean students. want me to show u this FACT again? Here: http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/S...

    did i say anything about doing well in life? huh? HUH?! can’t understand proper arguments can u?

    newspapers are full of reports of property agents and hawkers doing well in life. i’m not talking about them. all i’m stating is the FACT that aussie universities are the dumping grounds for singaporeans.

  56. Oh Pls Says:

    Amusing: :) Your msgs are showing how frustrated and worked up you are. I suggest you go read up from the beginning of this discussion. Try to understand what was discussed first and see who was the one who digressed from the initial argument. The people who posted the first few msgs were discussing how a degree from a certain uni can value-add in life and that means how well that person will be able to do and achieve in life. Not so much in which degree from which uni is better and hard to get in etc. Moreover, the end-game is still what your degree is able to achieve for you. If a “lousy” (like what you termed it) aussie degree can help me earn more money than a “prestigious” local degree then i will go for the aussie degree anytime. :) Yawn, what a loser you are. Dont even know that you were out of point and still arguing on with your FACTS. LOL

  57. qwerty Says:

    Till a little while back, 2nd lowers from overseas were not even accepted for being called to the bar while those from NUS were. If not for the shortage of lawyers it would still be that way. Pretty much shows you what the BLE and courts think of overseas degrees outside the select few from the UK (a 2nd lower from Oxbridge is definitely worthy of qualification imo)

    Proof is in the pudding, as amused would say!

  58. No Use Says:

    Its amusing this aaron. he has the thick skin to badmouth far superior universities like LSE and UCL or even ‘just’ King’s, yet the proof of pudding is in the eating. there are way too many lawyers from the farmer universities who went on to said universities for LLM (some pathetic short one year’s masters program that counts for squat) in order to claim that they are overseas grads. LOL. Why is that so? Why do they need to do this? Why i wonder, do they go there for post grad so short it counts for squat, in these supposed “lesser” universities after their “supreme” experience in NUS? LOL

    if the argument is that they go because they want to do post-grad, if their NUS is so “prestigious” or recognised, why not do their LLM there? Is it not offered there? LOL

    And afterall as the higher up one goes, the easier it is to get yourself into the same school due to far fewer applicants. Did they fail to get into these schools the first time round?

    Not just for law. Why is it that countless, out of the 14,000 local grads every year, try desperately to do a master’s program overseas to lie to their friends and colleagues that they’re overseas trained? Why do so many of them claim to be an alum of overseas universities on fb when they were there for some inconsequential 3 month exchange programme? Why do these people go on in forums claiming to have “lived overseas”? Lol

  59. Oh really? Haha Says:

    Hahaha Oh really?

    Is Qwerty claiming to everyone here that NUS law students are not enrolled in the course called..errm.. NUS 4 yr LLB? hahaha


    Degree and Class of Honours

    Students who complete the programme are awarded the LL.B. (Honours) degree. With effect from 1997, only graduates holding at least a Second Lower degree are permitted to qualify for legal practice in Singapore.

    I wonder you are really already in that farmer law school because you don’t know even the most basic stuff and made such a huge gaffe, you are obviously an aspirant, probably still in Jurong JC (which has sent several students to NUS law) or in ITE.

    And thanks to you, I wouldn’t have done a search on that crappy law school otherwise to discover that a horrendous B in GP gets you in.

  60. Amusing Says:

    Oh Pls: i don’t have time to waste with you anymore. because my time is precious, unlike yours. i didn’t read the above messages cos what i said was directed at YOU. get over the FACT that u came from a DUMPSTER aussie uni. and maybe you can stop deluding yourself that those from dumpster aussie unis earn more. once from a dumpster, always trash.

  61. save yourselves Says:

    Local: that is why so many people in Singapore say that local grads are detached from reality and live under a small rock. You don’t seem to know what’s happening even in your own country and its systems, current affairs, that no one should dream of local grads understanding world affairs.

    Read this and weep. http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/vi...

    That guy who got the OCBC local bursary is of and equal to the calibre of a nobody in the civil service. Obviously you know nothing about what you’re trying to talk about. Better stick to promoting your local universities and blowing your own trumpet, you’re in such foreign territory.

    Please lah! Do you know how many scholarships are offered? Scholarships are like cars, houses, bags and jeans. Some people afford bentleys, others beemers, others ferraris and some others like you, can only get yourself a chery QQ. All can be called cars. Scholarships come in different ranks and grades.

    The whole of Singapore, including taxi drivers and pork sellers, knows that the top brains are sent overseas by the government and only a microscopic number of President’s Scholars (only 1 called Tan Li Feng) went to NUS medicine willingly compared to close to 280 in history of president’s scholars who are SAFOS, SPFOS and OMS (and these are all overseas scholarships and are the top tier of scholarships in Singapore).

    How you can be deluded about this (or just ignorant) confirms to Singapore that local grads live under a rock. As if its not bad enough to be stuck in a well.

    Before 2006, there were no scholarships tenable for overseas study for medicine due to the costs of doing medicine. So president’s scholars who want to do med were forced to go to NUS.

    google cache

    Quote Public Service Commission under 2006 Highlights

    “2006 also saw a new policy to allow President’s Scholars who wish to pursue a Medical degree at an overseas university the opportunity to do so on full scholarship terms.”

    The policy has been changed and what makes the story juicier is that even before the change in policy, there were at least two (if not more) medical bound President’s Scholars who chose to take the scholarship in name only, turned down govt’s offer to pay for a free local medicine education and made their parents send them to Cambridge. One called Anne Tan Kendrick in 1982 and another called Audry Lee Shan Yin in 2005.


    speech by President S R Nathan

    So embarrassing.

    The ignorance is amazingly shocking. And the delusions, overwhelming. Parents, save up every penny so your kids don’t suffer this fate.

  62. Amusing Says:

    No Use: u really reflect your nickname. everyone in the industry knows that ucl, lse, king’s whatnot are all inferior to nus law. if u don’t know anything, don’t say anything.

    why do nus law grads go overseas for llm? cos it’s to get exposure to another jurisdiction, u retard. why study the same things all over again for an nus llm? shows how ignorant u are! just keep your mouth shut.

    what is most damning is the fact that top grads from nus law DO NOT go to ucl, lse & king’s. they don’t even consider such places for llm. nothing less than oxbridge will do. ucl, lse & king’s accepts the mediocre nus law students. this is common knowledge.

    and how stupid can you be. go tell universities that their master’s is worth less than their bachelor’s, why don’t u?

    so No Use, shut up cos you’re truly NO USE. some pathetic brat who buys an overseas degree. any idiot can do it. you’re probably a paralegal who’s being trampled all over by nus law grads now. haha. draw your measly salary while they get their millions u retard!

  63. qwerty Says:

    Oh Really? Haha: Read the post again. Read it very carefully, and very slowly. Go take some English lessons, read the law website..then come back.

    The rule on overseas 2nd lowers was changed in 2009. Before that, there was a 3 year requirement as a paralegal for those that did not qualify. The only person making a fool of himself here is you.

  64. Amusing Says:

    “Oh really? Haha” your reply to qwerty just shows how much of a moron you are. i don’t even know if that counts as a reply cos it’s completely out of point.

    but nevermind. i’ll reply to u anyway. u say several from jjc are in NUS LAW. well at least they had the 4As to get in. you know how many DOZENS get into UCL, LSE etc by getting STRAIGHT Bs!!! and you know how many NUS law rejects head over to UCL/LSE/kings each year?!! it’s incredible.
    worse are those who have such horrendous A-lvl results that they can’t even get into uni. then they go for a “matriculation year” over in the UK and what do you know, the next year they are in UCL/LSE. truly RUBBISH.

  65. boliao Says:

    by the time all these comments end i definitely cannot afford that car liao…

  66. Meowmeow Says:

    black cat, white cat, whichever that can capture the mouse is a good cat!

    morons just don’t get it. hahahahaha

  67. Oh Pls Says:

    amusing: you are really a sore loser Haha. No time and precious time? yet you are the one blabbering with the most nonsense and mags here? By the way, you posted msgs in this thread before me so how could you have started your msgs by directing at me? Get your facts right first before finding an excuse dude. What a joke. Your msgs really show what low EQ you have. I hope the rest of our local grads have higher EQ if not singapore will be in deep Shit. No idea why you get so worked up. People here are just discussing and comparing facts and there are no right or wrong but yet you keep insisting that only you or those who have agreed with you are correct. Grow up dude. If you refuse to accept that you are well beaten by an aussie grad in terms of salary, I can always meet up with you and show you my pay check. I am 32 and earned 180k last year. Not a lot of money but I believe better than MOST local grads of my age. Not happy? You can leave your hp or email here and I can get in touch with you to meet up. Show me that you are a man and have the guts. Don’t just keep blabbering and ranting like a girl. :)

  68. Oh Pls Says:

    I guess there is no point in debating further with amusing. This stubborn fool is truly in his own world. Lol. I suspect that he might still be studying and that is why he is not even aware of the real world.

  69. Amusing Says:

    Oh Pls is going on with his pointless rants again. well he does not say anything so i guess he finally accepts that aussie unis are DUMPING GROUNDS for singaporeans.

    low EQ? at least i don’t have BOTH LOW EQ AND IQ like u retard. you were the one who started getting personal when all i did was stating the FACTS and u couldn’t live with it. go read back and tell me if that’s not true. and when i started directing messages at u all u can say was that i was out of point. U DON’T EVEN GET THE POINT. so shut up. 180k at 32? I was getting that even BEFORE i hit 30 u idiot. how about u put down your email and number here so i can show u my car and apartment? stop whinging like a pussy. just confirmed my point that you are trash.

  70. local MBA Says:

    Amusing: you really argue like a kid (at least i dont have BOTH LOW EQ AND IQ) LOL. the more you say the more i am convinced that you are just a undergrad. no wonder you are defending your local uni so passionately or should i say foolishly. Well if you really aspire to earn 180k before 30, it is definitely achievable even for someone with the same level of EQ as you. But i would suggest that you invest more of your time in your studies than bullshitting in this forum. :) just take it that you are correct in everything you said and i am the dumb one if that makes you happy. LOL (honestly, you are really making my toes laugh and i am not being sarcastic). i must admit that you are truely an entertainer like ronaldo in the other thread. all the best in your dreams and aspirations!

  71. Amusing Says:

    honestly i’m tired. it’s ridiculous that 2 guys in their thirties are quarreling on an online discussion forum. i accept the blame.

    my argument from the start was that no top student would want to go to an aussie uni. i backed up my remarks with this: http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/S.... from out of nowhere “oh pls” starts calling me a ‘fool’ with a ‘puny brain’. he went on about how he is doing better than some local uni grads. granted. but my argument was never about that. can you see the difference?

    believe it or not, i did earn 180k before i was 30. of course, saying that it was completely derived from my degree would be incorrect. what can i say? i’m born lucky.

    it would be the last you hear from me. i defend that my alma mata is still a choice over aussie unis. you have your opinion, i have mine.

  72. meowmeow Says:

    definitely not scholar or AO. insurance/property agent? sell fried noodles at father’s stall? lol

  73. local Says:

    “save yourselves” at post 61 above, take a look at this link Amusing provided us:

    i see at least 3 president scholars in the past 8 years going to NUS. not to mention the countless other psc scholarship holders going to our local universities. this shows that our local unis still remain schools of choice amongst our top graduates.

    of course, some scholarships are more ‘prestigious’ than others. but none more so than the president’s scholarship, clearly. 3 in past 8 years isn’t insignificant i would say.

    i remain open to the dare. give me your name in saying that local unis are no good. because i never had someone tell me that face-to-face before. they always hide behind the anonymity of the internet. i would give mine in return. we can put this to the media. go ahead tell some of our ministers, judges, top doctors & lawyers how they graduated from a ‘lousy’ school.

    i wonder by putting down some scholarship holders, whether u were good enough to get a scholarship yourself.

    i’m actually glad that Amusing made a point to defend our local universities, although not over the point he made about aussie unis. they may not be popular, but they are not ‘lousy’. meowmeow, that’s a cheap shot. are you earning more than Amusing? and are you a scholar or AO? if not, keep yourself in check.

  74. bystander Says:

    Local, can you list the three president’s scholars who went to NUS? Like someone else clearly said earlier, but i suppose local grads are unable to understand primary school level Eng, there was a policy against students who do med. They had to study in Singapore if they were offered and wanted to accept a scholarship from the Singapore gov.

    This includes the prestigious President’s Scholars. The URL has been given to you but actually this is widely publicised info and even non elite students know this. PSC noticed that many of these elite scholars were upset about this, and changed the policy in 2006. From that year, ONLY President’s Scholars can study medicine in the UK under the Overseas Merit Scholarship (the 3rd most prestigious scholarship in SG after the President’s Scholarship and the SAF/SPF Overseas Scholarship). No other govt scholar can. There is a private scholarship from a charity foundation Loke Cheng Kim that also sends medicine scholars to the UK.

    The exception made to medicine in the history of PSC is because of the high costs of doing medicine in the UK. Medicine is more expensive than other disciplines. However the Govt realised the importance of keeping the scholars happy, and giving the top brains what they deserve.

    From this forum, its clear that local grads have no comprehension skills at all, and are simply unable to understand simple Eng words, let alone concepts.

    So maybe you’ll like to plough through your list and present the 3 names other than Tan Li Feng who willingly chose to go to the lousy local medical school as a President’s Scholar after the embargo was lifted in 2006.

  75. areublind Says:

    bystander: obviously u are no impartial “bystander”. take a good look at the list. tan li feng went to nus in 2006. kaan hung leng went in 2007.
    winston chee went in 2003, before the ‘embargo’ was lifted, but do you think he is stupid enough to go to your so-called ‘lousy’ local university? he obviously had plenty of choices, even if he wanted to practice medicine, but chose NUS because he felt it was the best choice for him. clearly, he felt he did not have to go overseas to ‘buy’ a degree. it wasn’t worth the money.

    i second local. if you dare name yourself, i’ll give my name together with yours to the media and we will have a proper debate of whether local grads are as bad as you claim they are. stop hiding behind the keyboard.

    local grads have nothing to prove. top scorers enter our local universities, including president and psc scholars. these are people who have scored 4As and above and could have gone to any university in the world (and don’t tell me they can’t because it is clear 4As could get you to oxbridge if you ever had friends who went in).

    local universities have also produced members in the highest echelons of singapore society. ministers, judges, top doctors and lawyers, as local had stated above.

    attracting good students and producing top graduates, i can see why people like bystander cannot find proper arguments except empty assertions of how local grads ‘cannot understand english’.

  76. Oh Pls Says:

    Local: meowmeow’s comments are cheap shot? If that is cheap then i guess your comments + Amusing comments are dirt cheap :)

  77. bystander Says:

    Btw, like someone else said before, even the taxi drivers and janitors know that top brains are sent overseas by the govt or their parents. Even the scholarship rejects know which are the top scholarships in SG and their tiers. The top tier of scholarships is the SAFOS, SPFOS and OMS. They are by the PSC, and no one can be a president’s scholar without being one of these three. President’s scholars who pursue medicine before 06 were given the LMS because of the embargo. This changed in 2006, medicine PS became PS cum OMS. On any typical year even before 2006, there were only at most 1 med bound PS out of about 4-5 PS a year. The rest of course go overseas, because Singapore’s top scholarships are only overseas ones.

    You’re fighting a battle that was a lost cause even before you began but you were too much under a rock and too detached from the world to know.

    Qwerty has, like other local grads, severe problems following an argument. It was Qwerty who lied and got exposed, later desperately tried to cover up her mess hhaha let’s see.

    qwerty Says: March 30th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    “Till a little while back, 2nd lowers from overseas were not even accepted for being called to the bar while those from NUS were.”

    SO, post 59 by “Hahaha Oh really?”, ON NUS’s law undergrad school, the NUS 4 YR LLB (hello are u a retard or what?) exposed her sorry lie.

    Quote Hahaha Oh really?

    “Is Qwerty claiming to everyone here that NUS law students are not enrolled in the course called..errm.. NUS 4 yr LLB? hahaha

    Degree and Class of Honours (note from bystander: Pls refer to #59 up there for the link)

    Quote NUS undergrad LLB website “Students who complete the programme are awarded the LL.B. (Honours) degree. With effect from 1997, only graduates holding at least a Second Lower degree are permitted to qualify for legal practice in Singapore.”

    Hahahha. Then later she desperately tried to cover tracks by talking kok.

    I’m not a lawyer, neither did I study locally (God, no! Yucks) or in Australia.

    But what’s clear is that some local grad farmer (local grads are called Farmers in many quarters) tried to lie to the forum about NUS law grads with 2nd lower were called to the bar but those from overseas were not. And got majorly pwned and owned. hahaha.

  78. local Says:

    i like the way this discussion is going because it only shows how those who did not graduate from our local universities behave.

    they have said nothing of substance other than calling names. and taking the opinion of taxi drivers and janitors. excellent.

    areublind, well said. local grads have nothing to prove. local universities attract top scorers each year. the psc scholars website shows a number. in reality there are even more.

    how many of our ministers are from our local universities? sm goh,prof jayakumar, dr ng eng hen, dr balakrishnan, mr shanmugam. i guess what bystander is saying is that they are ‘farmers’.

    and how many judges are from our local universities? nearly all. are they all ‘farmers’ too?

    and these are only the publicly available information. many more local graduates are at the top of singapore society.

    go ahead and rant on all you like, because by calling names you cannot obfuscate the undeniable truth that local universities attract top students and produce top graduates.

  79. bystander Says:

    “John Says:
    March 30th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    John said “Amusing: please do not be over-reliant on the PSC list as a yardstick. Many Local(Open) or SGS(Local) Awardees (Hons 1st incl.) hardly make it to the Admin Service (the quintessence, fyi). Many of them do not even hit 5-figure salaries (or cross the superscale) until the age of 40 (or even later).”

    John, you hit the nail on the head. Local grads are bringing up the low tier farmers “pseudo scholars” in PSC, to insist hope against hope that local unis also have “scholars”, and hence top brains. Yet you’ve painted this fact that the public knows, that these low tier people are in the dozens and were not the top scholars and they’re the ones who do not become AOs.

    The fact is that those people are not even considered scholars by the Government or the Public. And the outcome and their performance prove it further.

    The fact that John and the rest of the forum have been trying to tell you is that:

    Scholarships come in different ranks, values and grades. The pseudo cheap study awards (and they come in very high QUANTITY too. Selectivity is shit) are the low tier awards and lousy, easy-to-get rubbish. The people to end up with those are rejects. The crappy people, pseudo scholars are channeled downwards. This applies to not only PSC and stat boards, but even in private companies like SPH and SIA that give out scholarships.

    That loser who claimed he’s an “SAF scholar” would have just been another farmer in the sea of thousands of SAF regular officers, who all have some form of SAF sponsorship. So they’re all SAF scholars? Quite a joke right? Anyway anyone who’s been through NS knows that only SAFOS are SAF scholars.

    His example is actually proof positive that a local study awardee whose best competency is the OCBC bursary for the poor with no prestige to the local U, is equal to the calibre of a nobody in the civil service. (From my NS days, I do remember where the ATA holders stand in the scheme of things. And no, they’re way off the league to exist in this argument if not for local grads who are so thick-skinned and deluded..or is it ignorant?)

    In the private sector, I’ll hire an Australian grad from a top Aussie university over a local grad any day.

    And they’ve always outperformed local grads in job interviews and at work by miles and leaps.

    The number of “CEOs, judges, blah blah” from local universities is actually a below-standard performance because of the much huger percentage local grads form in the workforce. Local grads unable to understand conceptual arguments like this. They’re the ones who think all scholarships, and thus “scholars” are the same, when those that sent rank and file to local universities aren’t even regarded as scholars. They can only think on a single plane.

    These are the same people who think that they’re overseas trained after a 6 month stint overseas or a short post-grad rubbish no one in the real world cares about.

    areublind, why don’t you go and ask Winston Choo whether he willingly went to the inferior local med school when it would have been free for him? Instead of presuming on his behalf to push your agenda here, do present the three president’s scholars you claim existed that went to NUS med after 2006. Because they would have been true willing parties!

    Its good you showed us the list here. Can you see the proportion of Presidents scholars who went local over the ones overseas? http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/S...

    We tried to tell you time and again that the top brains are sent overseas. And what the top tier scholarships are. And no they’re not the low rung SGS (local) or Local MS (open) people.

    My final words to deluded local grads is they should come out from under a rock and see more of the universe, because Singapore is very small and frankly, truly insignificant in the scheme of things. Things you’ve not experienced and don’t know about.

  80. local Says:

    oh yes the dare is still on. i would love for all this to blow up in the press and find out who are those who feel our local graduates are not good. i doubt we’ll find people of good calibre amongst them.

  81. Oh Pls Says:

    bystander: your points are so valid and reflective of the real world. Too bad some “local” grads here are just too deluded and refused to face the reality of life. Bet they must be cursing and swearing when they see an aussie grad earning more than them or getting the job that they have always wanted. I think you can save your effort because these people just wont accept the reality. Just let them continue to deceive themselves that they are the superior ones when the rest are laughing at how dumb they are from the top.

  82. local Says:

    bystander speaks as if he is better than most of the psc scholars. you can see how stretched his arguments have become. first he attacks local grads. then he attacks psc scholars because he cannot deny that they go to local universities. he finds that he cannot deny that 3 president scholars have headed to local universities in the past 8 years as well. next he will have to attack those ministers and judges which i have listed above and graduated from local universities.

  83. local Says:

    Oh Pls i started by thinking that you were rather objective in your arguments. now i realize that you are just another bigot. of course you’ll always have some aussie, uk, us and chinese grads earning more than some local grads. it would be ridiculous if there weren’t. but there are countless other local grads who earn much more than these overseas grads as well. can you deny this?

  84. qwerty Says:

    bystander: the foolishness of one who knows too little, and talks too much. Poor english too.

  85. qwerty Says:

    Oh Pls: For a guy that think Kings, LSE and UCL are good unis for law, pls la. Anyone with half a brain can pick up a UCAS form and go there, k?

    And like I told you, what top? Who is at the top of the legal sector? Where are our judges, managing partners and ministers from? There are almost no aussie grads there.

  86. Oh Pls Says:

    local: yes i dont deny that. that is why in my earlier messages, i was saying that aussie grads/uni doesnt mean inferior to local grads/uni. But it is you guys who insist and keep putting local grads/uni above the rest, which i think is putting off alot of people here.

    qwerty: if you are just talking about the legal sector then maybe you are right but that would be too narrow a scope to compare who is better. like i have always said, i dont think local means better or aussie means better. it is subjective and depends on individual/industry etc. the point that i am proving is not to say local sucks but rather local doesnt mean better. get what i mean? to be honest, i seriously feel that bystander has more valid points than you do. At least he is able to pinpoint arguments and state relevant rebutts rather than your very generic comments like “the foolishness of one who knows too little, and talks too much. Poor english too.” which doesnt reflect very well on yourself.

  87. Kevin Says:

    Frankly, both scholars’ university choices and A-level entry requirements says little about quality of the university graduates each university produces. Objectively, without any additional information, I will trust A-level results entry requirements more than scholars’ choices. Chances are if you only have straight As students in your university, these students will tend to keep up their excellent academic results. But of course, we know about the reputations of some of these universities and should well suspect that they are the choices of scholars from other countries, which then make their cohorts a stronger population than the population of local universities.

    Basically, I believe the academic quality of a university’s graduates is strongly correlated to the academic quality of its intake.

    I also believe that a 4-year face-to-face learning university graduates (both local or foreign) are stronger than a reduced time, minimal face-to-face learning university graduates.

    Personal anecdotes, while potentially inspiring, also adds little to such discussions. If we have a large enough sample over many generations, we may be able to find a dubious university graduate managing over a group consisting of overseas scholars and local elites.

  88. adiemuso Says:

    tried hard not to step in…but its sad to see this divide amongst our young singaporeans.

    whether u had graduated from a Local Uni or a Foreign one, you are still a Singaporean in the eyes of the foreigners. Infighting is the last thing, we all ought to be doing.

    In the real world, the piece of paper opens only doors, how high u can climb depends on the individual capabilities and circumstances.

    And true enough, our Top notch Scholars are usually sent to Foreign Instituitions. That is a fact, but that does not neccessary infer anything over the standards of Local n Foreign Programmes.

  89. Oh Pls Says:

    adiemuso: yes, well said. that is exactly what i have been saying to Amusing and the rest in previous messages. :) That is why i see no reason for a local grad to feel superior to others.

  90. dave Says:

    “Top notch Scholars are usually sent to Foreign Instituitions”

    it’s true and the reason is obvious. life is not fair. just accept it. it’s the same with elite schools vs neighbourhood schools, business class flight seats vs economy class, class A hospital ward vs class C, car owners vs bus takers, condo dwellers vs hdb renters, rich dad vs poor dad, etc etc.

    just ask the local scholarship holders, how many of them honestly would mind taking up an overseas scholarship if given the chance. i dare say almost all wouldn’t mind, except for the few with special reasons (family, bf, gf, ideology, “strategic difference”, etc).

    fortunately in singapore, besides the rich getting lots of opportunities at a good life, the bright and diligent students regardless of background also get a good chance (though smaller chance, but still a good chance nonetheless).

  91. John Says:

    Oh Pls: Well said. I second that (post #86) absolutely. When I pick newbies into my department, I seldom look at where they’re graduates of. It’s the same case when I promote them. Only my ex-civil service boss & the personnel division/wing does that.

  92. Australia Is Obviously Superior Says:

    #1 HYPSM (harvard, yale, penn, stanford and MIT), Oxbridge, Chicago
    #2 Good UK, US universities of solid reputation (georgetown, northwestern, carnegie mellon, NYU, Berkeley, Umich, very long list)
    #3 Other Good US universities that’s slightly less famous (UVA, Indiana, UT, BC, USC, UCLA, very long list) and Top Australian universities eg ANU, Melbourne
    #4 Local U
    #5 Distance learning

  93. Australia Is Obviously Superior Says:

    Dave, what are you talking about? You’re not only stating the obvious. You’re understating it. Have you been through the top 5 JCs? All the people who end up with the local awards (which comes with a 4 yr bond puh lease) are rejects of (real) ie overseas scholarships. Otherwise they are people who did not qualify at all.

    A large number of people with only 4As and no special papers were instantly booted out of the running for scholarships. They took on local study awards and went on to serve their bond as nobody-peons in the civil service rather than go to med school (4A only is the norm for med school).

    Some frankly admit that they tried and were rejected, some did not apply because they didn’t meet the criteria, and others are still claiming till today they only stayed behind and accepted a local award cos the bond is 2 yrs shorter LOL.

    One person I know who still clings onto his connection sadly as an RI and RJ alum fell in the last category mentioned here. He quit his teaching job and is now desperately applying to Canadian and low rung UK universities (King’s) for his 1 year Master’s.

    He prob also wants to call himself an overseas grad.

  94. sgs Says:

    i’m glad to see the commotion dying down. been following this thread with interest and it’s been no different from others i’ve seen around the internet, which is why i kept away from posting.

    i shall give myself away from the start. i’m an NUS student, and proud of it. i’m graduating this year and i’ll be getting a starting salary of 100k p.a., and i’m delighted with it. i’m sure some others will be saying how ‘pathetic’ this is soon, but i don’t really care.

    they often say how top scorers don’t go to NUS. but it is clear that we have dozens of psc scholars in our midst, not to mention president scholars in the medical school. in my experience there are a large group of students who have scored 4As and above at my faculty. i don’t think you can argue with much conviction that NUS has not attracted top talent.

    if we’re talking about who NUS has produced, posts above have listed ministers (goh chok tong, jayakumar, ng eng hen, balakrishnan, shanmugam). and judges (including the chief justice). these people are not just CEOs of SMEs. they are the people who actually run this country.

    i confess that i hate it when labels such as ‘farmer’ and ‘frogs in the well’ are thrown around to describe us. they are just malicious. they cannot be reasonably substantiated.

    this shall be my first and last post. thanks for reading anyway.

  95. quit whining Says:

    local, why don’t you quit whining and pull out the three president’s scholars who went to NUS after the embargo was lifted? So many people here challenged you to do so but until now, you can’t. So embarrassing.

    Earlier Tan Li Feng was named as 1 of them by Cantab Papamama who willingly chose to go. Someone else found . Winston Choo didnt go there on his own accord ok? The links have been pasted and proof about the policy before 2006 oppressing the president’s scholars who wished to do med adduced. I don’t know why you’re still in deep denial although so many people try to wake you up. Its such a sorry sight.

    The fact as many people have said, is that the top tier scholarships are three and they are all overseas ones. Why don’t you go and count how many PS are there in the last 10 years that went to a local university??

    Kevin, you’re talking utter rubbish and sound like a retard. No one is saying “A level grades over Scholars’ Choice” (???>). Its not scholars’ “Choice”. Its demand and supply and about how good they are. Its not their choice. You think scholars get to choose wherever they wish to go without making the criteria of their dream school? You think all scholars go to Harvard? In fact they are assessed beyond A level grades and any decent scholarship in demand by the top students in SG encompass way beyond perfect scores in the A levels, it also includes CCA, harrowing interviews with at least a panel of 10, community work and leadership performance in OCS for guys. So its not a toss between looking at A level grades and “scholars’ choice”. You mean you believe in your delusions that local toads have better grades than the top students with perfect CVs, the people who get the PSC scholarships? You sound like a total nutjob who doesn’t know what you’re talking about. No matter you went to NUS as I know from another thread.

  96. dave Says:

    “i don’t think you can argue with much conviction that NUS has not attracted top talent.”

    er… do you mean top talent IN singapore? what about top talent from around the WORLD? the top whiz kids around the world from india to russia ALL want to study in the top universities in USA if they get the chance. they have not even heard of NUS, and never will.

    while NUS _may_ have a good reputation locally, the best of the best like Harvard, MIT and Stanford are internationally renowned. no doubt about it.

  97. local Says:

    Tan Li Feng (2006)
    Kaan Hung Leng (2007)
    Winston Chin (2003)

    let’s take it Winston Chin did not go ‘willingly’. that’s 2 president scholars in the past 3 years.

    someone pointed out above that Winston Chin obviously had a choice between studying at NUS, or spending a few hundred thousand getting a medical degree elsewhere. if he really felt that a medical degree elsewhere is worth more than the few hundred thousand that he had to fork out, he would have gone for it. it is obvious that he did not feel that way.

    u have local grads here defending their school, listing president scholars and top graduates. what arguments have the others made other than bald assertions?

  98. local Says:

    dave, i don’t think we disagree that the schools u listed are very good. we are just proving here is that local universities are good as well. the fact that local universities are an attractive proposition to our president & psc scholars, and produced our ministers and judges says a lot.

    many public universities in japan, korea, taiwan, hk etc probably would not attract talent from around the world as well. this does not make them any less good. they play the primary role of providing tertiary education to the local populace, which is what our local universities do.

  99. dave Says:

    some scholars may not want to go overseas because they worry about the cost of breaking the bond (not that they plan to break the bond, but that they’re planning for the scenario and they don’t have a silver spoon).

  100. dave Says:

    local, ok i agree with your last statement.

    and i hope to see the day when the offsprings of our own PM, President and cabinet ministers attend local unis by choice. it’ll be even better if they proudly reject Harvard and attend NUS.

    (no sarcasm intended.)

  101. local Says:

    dave, no offense taken. there are of course unstated motivations for our ministers to send their children overseas. none of them want to look bad by having their children perform worse than other singaporeans. they would prefer them to perform worse than a bunch of foreigners.

    our local universities are meant to satisfy the economic and social need for 30% of each cohort to obtain tertiary education. in doing so of course some ‘duds’ will be produced. but this is the same for most universities around the world. this does not mean that top talents are not attracted and top graduates are not produced.

  102. what the heck? Says:

    you’re supposed to discuss COE prices, not your fckn education. if you people cant even understand that it doesnt matter whether you’re from oxford or nus or unsw – you are obviously fricking stupid.

  103. Oh Pls Says:

    what the heck: yes exactly. that was what i have been trying to “educate” local and amusing but i guess they are just too stubborn to take in other opinions and just insist in their own points. but i must applaud local’s stamina in this thread. LOL. The never say die attitude even though it is no longer within the point of discussion.

  104. boliao Says:

    That was what i was trying to tell them earlier. No matter what uni you come from if you can’t stick to the topic of the initial discussion then you are a fcking disgrace as a graduate.

  105. oh yar Says:

    oh yar it doesn’t matter. some of us spend hundreds of thousands in getting into university and it doesn’t matter. 4 years of our lives working for that degree. and it doesn’t matter. what a joke.

    of course it matters. it clearly matters in getting that first job. it probably affects your prospects in the first few years of working life. you always see that it is those aussie grads like Oh Pls who argue that it doesn’t matter. when you come from a bottom of the pile school obviously you hope it is true. LOL.

    it’s painfully obvious NO scholars choose to go to aussie universities. u don’t need our ministers to come out to say our aussie cohort are rejects and quitters (even though they have). ask any auntie, uncle and they will tell you they will never consider sending their children to aussie unis.

    and how many singaporeans who go over to aussie unis have emerged to become top in singapore society? truly pathetic. and you have Oh Pls there saying how he earns more than most local grads. in his own fantasy world maybe. show some proper arguments as the local grads here have rather than unleashing your crap here.

  106. aussie degrees are trash Says:

    oh pls everyone in singapore knows aussie degrees are trash. the thousands of singaporeans who flock there yearly are all ite, poly or those with appallingly bad alvl results. don’t try associate yourselves with us and uk grads u bunch of fkn losers.

  107. dralex_ccf Says:

    To “aussie degress are trash”: Wah…so insecure man. Are you alright? I dunno why you are saying Aussie degrees are trash, because I know of MIT masters who go there to do PhD….. Mah Bow Tan has a degree from Australia, and he earns millions a year…if that’s losing…I don’t mind losing ya…..

  108. dralex_ccf Says:

    Oh and yeah I should go work for Macquarie Bank…a loser investment bank in a loser country who’s suffered the least during the recent economic crisis…..

  109. local Says:

    Oh Pls i’ve been more than patient but i must say my patience is wearing thin. u can continue to make your snide remarks about ‘educating’ local grads. it just shows how gracious you are.

    all u are doing is creating a backlash. this site is capable of being quoted in the mainstream media. honestly, i believe that local grads would not be the ones losing out to aussie grads like u. in terms of people in high places, we have more than a few. in terms of sheer numbers, we have more than enough to make things happen.

  110. Oh Pls Says:

    oh yar: i have already made my point by giving real life examples earlier so i dont think i have to reiterate all over again to a new comer like yourself in this thread. If you refuse to accept the reality that there are also quite a number of aussie grads earning more than local grads than it is obviously that you are the one living in your own fantasy world.

    aussie degrees are trash: LOL. i think you are the worst lot. using vulgarities in your msg just show how “educated” you are. haha! i guess none of us will need to bother about your bullshit.

    local: seriously, i really cannot understand why a local and self-proclaimed better/smarter grad like yourself fail to understand and stick to the point of discussion. Did i ever say that all local grads are losing out to an aussie grad like me? Let me reiterate one last time to you since you have been so patient. All i was saying is local doesnt mean smarter and better and it has already been proven in real life. If local is really smarter and better than why is it not ALL local grads earning more and doing better than ALL aussie grads? Thats my point, get it? Of course if you say the tendancy of local grads doing better in work is higher than aussie grads in SG then i might agree with you. But i guess you are just too stubborn to accept the reality of life.

  111. aussie grads are rubbish Says:

    I must say it’s sad but true that locals with Aussie degrees are rubbish. Talk to them and they can’t string proper sentences together. Their academic records are the worst. Some got their degrees after O levels… And their O level results were completely disastrous to boot. There is really no QC at all. And work wise they are the worst performers all the time.

  112. Oh Pls Says:

    local: oh yah..and i noticed that you have been repeating about quoting this in the mainstream media. If you are really so free to do that then pls go ahead. Its not that we are afraid but I think none of us here would bother to do such a silly thing like this. By the way, we are not at all afraid or threatened by this if this is what you are thinking and hoping. :) Personally, i just think this is a dumb and stupid thing to do. I rather be spending my time in monitoring my stocks or spending time with my family. Are you still single? I think thats why you have all the time in the world? LOL

  113. Oh Pls Says:

    aussie grads are rubbish: Well i guess it depends on what level you are at. I guess the aussie grads thta you have worked with are probably at the lowest level together with yourself. :)

  114. boliao Says:

    singapore and aussie grads KPKB in a forum meant to discuss COE prices.

    Think China grads are smarter than this

  115. sb Says:

    china grads don’t visit this site.

  116. fb Says:

    they do but won’t comment out of point

  117. Oh Pls is a loser aussie grad Says:

    quiet lah loser aussie grad. can’t make it anywhere else come here kpkb.

    wondering why gahmen need so many foreign workers. got all these stupid aussie grads to clean tables and clear rubbish what! oh pls fits nicely! :D

  118. aussie grads are rubbish Says:

    Oh Pls what level are you talking about. All local Aussie grads are low level. Like you!

  119. Oh Pls Says:

    i guess i dont have to debate/defend any further. msgs 117 and 118 have already shown clearly to everyone that the standard of local grads here are…erm..LOL…they even used the words KPKB and quiet LAH…LOL

  120. Oh Pls Says:

    messages 117 and 118 are exactly how people (or should i say losers) will react when they have nothing more to say or to support their arguments. :)

  121. local Says:

    Oh Pls: the pot calling the kettle black. we all can see the words you have used, and can see the ‘standard’ of aussie grads like yourself.
    furthermore i don’t see any indication that posters of 117 & 118 are local grads. in your prejudice you assumed that they were.

  122. local Says:

    Oh Pls: the pot calling the kettle black. we all can see the words you have used, and can see the standard of aussie grads like yourself.
    furthermore i don’t see any indication that posters of 117 & 118 are local grads. in your prejudice you assumed that they were.

  123. Oh Pls Says:

    Local: yes I assumed those 2 jokers are local grads and I guess its pretty obvious that they are. Oh well whatever. Like I said earlier, I guess there is no need to debate further since you can’t even catch the main point. :)

  124. local Says:

    Oh Pls: glad to see u admit your mistake for once. “pretty obvious that they are” again points out your prejudice.

    u’ve never said anything of substance for me to debate on anyway. i’ve listed president and psc scholars who enter local unis. i’ve listed ministers and judges who graduated from local unis. i’ve proven that local unis are good. what have u provided except to say that u earn more than local grads? i don’t even want to point out all the other bigoted comments u made above.

    in your limited capacity for understanding all you can say to other posters here is that they can’t catch the point. i think only you are getting your own point. you are a disgrace to all aussie grads.

  125. Oh Pls Says:

    local: i have the exact same sentiments on you as well. Well at least i have the guts to admit my own mistake for once. You? must be still thinking that you are the right one all along. So typical. :)

  126. Oh Please Says:

    I think what one poster pointed out above is informative: http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/S...

    You can’t really say that australian universities are the “scholars’ choice”, can you?

    And i don’t mean to be cynical, but you can only deal with what you have. University education is not some magical wand which you can wave and make a frog a prince.

    It’s incontrovertible that australian universities takes in the worst of the singaporean cohort in the past decade. one must be really hopeful to think they will produce any singaporean of mention out of this lot.

  127. local Says:

    ohpls: nobody takes your ‘sentiments’ into account :D an outsider can judge whether i’ve been right all along. u’ve not said anything to prove me wrong.

    i said that our local universities are good.
    i’ve proven it by showing objective proof of a list of president and psc scholars who’ve gone to our local universities.
    i’ve proven it by showing objective proof that local universities have produced ministers & judges, top doctors & lawyers.

    what have you shown to the contrary? nothing, except to claim that u earn more than some local grads, in addition to some bigoted comments.

    don’t tell me what is and is not the point because this is my point and nobody here has to conform to yours.

  128. Oh Pls Says:

    local: haha. dont you realise what you have said to me actually applies to you as well? :) THe more you say, the more you are shooting at your own leg too. PLs carry on and make my day. This is truely entertaining.

  129. local Says:

    oh pls i cannot stop laughing from your last post. what a complete cop out! hahaha! i see you can’t think anything more to say against the points that i’ve made. not that u were able to in the first place.

    well, i’ve had my fun exposing the bigoted idiot that you are. u can go on trying to salvage something out of your utter disgrace to aussie grads. good day! :D

  130. Kevin Says:

    My logic is that if you take a university who takes in better A level grads or higher SAT scores, the academic outcome will be superior than one who did not. While I know a lot of reputable universities probably have stringent intake requirements (like at least a 1450 in SAT), there will be other universities with less stringent intakes even though they are supposedly reputable. Hence, I must think local university especially those faculties with stringent entry requirements like medicine, law, accounting, etc., must produce good academic quality graduates.

    QuitWhining: Calling “Kevin” various names does not add much to the discussion. There is also at least another Kevin I am aware of who’s posting comments.

  131. Kevin Says:

    admin: so now are you going to censor the profanity that I see in #102?

    Seriously, you should let it be. The only problem we can tell now from truly open democracy is that it is hard to separate the good quality discussions from the bad but this is something we got to learn.

  132. Oh Pls Says:

    local: Pls carry on with your own assumptions and wild imaginations to make yourself feel better and look more superior. Yup, you managed to exposed me and nobody here managed to find any flaws with what you have said! Lol. Another typical trait of a local grad stuck in his own fantasy world. :) Continue posting please. I will be waiting for your next post and thanks for the entertainment!

  133. WTF? Says:

    Local & Oh Pls: Can you guys stop? I think the both of you are a disgrace to all grads, whether local or not. You guys are correct in your own points but you are just not gracious enough to accept the reality from the other perspective. All the non-grads here must be laughing at how childish you guys are.

  134. John Says:

    I’m bullish about COE prices.
    ! Think I’m lucky that I bought both cars last year =)

    And just to sidetrack:

    Using sheer common sense, one can easily decipher that:

    No matter which secondary school or JC you went to,
    No matter how well you did for your A’ Levels,
    No matter which university you went to or whichever class of honours you graduated with,

    No Big Brother’s going to peg your piece of paper to how much you earn.

    its a never-ending race. It’s your IR8A that counts at the end of the day.

  135. Bingo Says:

    Bingo John. No clue why these folks have been arguing so much about which uni/grad is better blahblahblah. President scholar so what??? Ivy League so what??? Show me the money!

  136. joke Says:

    haha, if u think AU degrees are trash, feel so sorry for u losers.
    An Australian (educated in australia all his/her life) and come to SG to work, makes him/ her — AN EXPAT!
    earning how many folds more than a local grad!
    So if a S’porean gets into a good AU Uni, how can u classify them as trash?
    At least if they want to migrate to AU, very recognised cert!

    Well, many poly, ITE holders go to UK too, so many Uni in UK that provides a year’s course to get a degree for diploma holders.

  137. bartaxe Says:

    U guys must know one thing:
    Even if u win a rat race, u still are a Rat.

    Its not about the univs, its about the individual. Singapore is a small place with small population. Cant produce the same number of talented people as Aus or India.

    I have attened NUS and univs in Europe too. As far as facilities, infrastructure go, I think NUS is as good as any univ abroad. However, if students are not good enough , then what can u do. No wonder Singapore has to import smart students from India n China.

    But ya Singaporeans do hype their rankign in Research etc. I think anyday many univs in Korea Japan will be better. But Singaporeans are good at marketing and so outsiders think good of their univs, etc.

  138. Australia is superior #2 Says:

    Local degree
    Cost = low
    Value = worthless

    Even the government knows it.

    And hello, its a well known fact to anyone at all who’s ever been through the system as one of the top few, (not one of those who were cursed to a local degree right at the start and applied and ended up in NTU business or some $hit ass place after RJC arts and think they’re part of the elite)..practically every single person in NUS med and law are people who applied to PSC (meaning OMS that standard) and did not even get a dignity of a rejection response.

    This is such a common knowledge even the low rung scholars eg DSTA, SPH, IRAS, HDB, Astar, SIA know. Stop pretending to be a part of it when you clearly know nothing. Malu.

  139. To Bingo Says:

    I love it whenever the local peasants or anyone of the same ilk (normally their fellow frogs in the well) bring in funny things like money. I assure you that 90% of the President’s Scholars are making more money than 90% of the people from wherever you ended up, be it dump #1 NUS (by odds would be arts, real estate or wth arts hahaha, #2 NTU engine i won’t wish them on my enemies or dump #3 SMU anything).

    If you can’t understand this because you’re so stupid you can’t understand basic statistics and bell curve, you truly deserved to have suffered a local university, which I’m glad you did. How just.

  140. To Kevin Says:

    I do agree with you that the quality of enrolment has a big influence on what’s put out (further proof of why local universities produced NO Nobel laureate).

    That’s what we’ve been trying hard to help you understand. local universities take in rubbish. Perhaps your local education stunted your brain, causing you to fail to understand simple words.

    As is said before, scarcely no one in NUS’s most selective departments would get a place in Oxbridge.

    Second, like someone said before, there is no top university in SG, because SG only has three miserable public universities all meant to serve the public. Unlike the US with over 5000 universities, there is no top universities here, because all three are meant to absorb the university-going masses. In the states, when the top 20 or 40 universities like the Ivy League and Berkeley and Stanford are creamed off, there’re still 4960 universities to take in the rest. This is why there are top universities in the US. This is why the top students, not just from Singapore but from Zimbabwe, Malaysia, Malawi and Hong Kong apply for a place in MIT, Stanford and Harvard. That is why when Harvard says its a top university, no one laughs.

    Yearly the universities here take in how many? 13000? 14000? 15000? Last i read in ST, its about 14,000 or so. This number seems even larger than the total number of people who take the A levels! Discerning? My foot.

    The fact that some local law grads here admitted (actually it was their failed attempt to boast) that just a tiny minority top few of their cohort make it to Oxbridge LLM is proof and please lah, even a cactus knows that master’s is 100 times easier to get than undergrad school of the same school. And they have no idea they’ve unwittingly agreed with the rest here when they said those schoolmates of theirs who head to UCL or LSE for their LLM need to and do so for the exposure to foreign jurisdiction. What have they gotten themselves into?

    Law Soc president is “nothing” and what matters is CJ? I bet the Law Soc president makes much much much more than the CJ but that’s just me. And who doesn’t know that both you won’t be able to pull out your AG and SG to claim that they’re pure local grads. Didn’t Walter Woon do his LLM in the US? As for the SG, she was a PSC scholar who attended UCL before she decided to do law lor.

    I don’t know whether local grads have problems understanding simple stuff or what. Every new post made by them, such as yours, seem to reinforce it to us. More and more and more so.

    You’re yet another proof that I should throw the CV of local grads on my desk away.

    The Australian grads are definitely more well-spoken and show superior sophistication of thought processes and exposure to what’s going on in the world.

  141. lol Says:

    To Kevin: Wanted to leave this post alone but man..you take the cake when it comes to delusion.

    People refer to the LLB when talking about Oxbridge, not the LLM. No one takes an LLM usually btw, and even if they do, it isn’t in LSE or UCL. Get a clue.

    The NUS law faculty takes in 200 a year. Not your stupid conflation of numbers with no meaning. And yes, the Law Soc president is nothing compared to the CJ in terms of prestige (and earning power). And quoting the SG is gd, till you realise that most of the bench is from NUS. Let me point you in the right direction since you seem to think earning power defines a grad, go do some research on the managing partners at our local (or foreign if you like) firms and see where they are from. I can’t think of any from Aussie, but maybe you could find one for me.

    Oh and btw, must be nice to know you spend a mint of money on an Aussie degree and came back with a lower earning power than the arts grads eh? That’s what happens when you have low entry requirements and no recognition.

  142. To Kevin Says:

    Lower earning power than the arts grads? Haha is that why your big law firms and hospitals are hiring Australian grads by the droves?

    NUS law is not so bad as the rest of NUS, but I find it funny NUS students dare to criticise Australian universities..who but deluded local grads don’t know that it’s Aussie universities that hold the highest number of championship for the Jessup Law Moot beating NUS flat. Not only that, the last time NUS even won was back in 2001, which was like what, a zillion years ago when it still goes around boasting to outsiders that it is a “big winner”. I just heard someone from NUS arts saying she heard so from her friends in school aiyo.

    Not only did ANU win this year in the latest, Australia holds the largest number of title winners THIS DECADE (most relevant). Sydney in 07, Queensland in 05, UWA in 03 and Melbourne Uni in 2000!


    I also know for a fact that in a lot of these major competitions, NUS sends a sizeable number of British graduates who are only in NUS to do their one year DipSing LOL. (British, Irish and Australian law grads are required to do a one year diploma). For those not in the know, http://www.ukslss.net/dipsing.php

    cannot name names here or it will reveal my identity but hey hey, some of it is online for all to see. http://law.nus.edu.sg/news/archive/...

    “The NUS team consisted of Colin Chow, Victoria Xue, Tan Mingfen, Sue Ann Gan and Michelle Quah. Colin is a Third Year LLB student and Mingfen and Victoria are Final Year LLB Students. Michelle and Sue Ann are students in the one-year Diploma in Singapore Law programme.”

    Lol wow your law school of 200 is so “good” that it can’t even produce enough people to represent itself in competitions. There aren’t even 10 Singaporeans to Leicester law school a year la. And the best Orator has to be won by a Leicester grad, Sue Ann Gan?

    The DipSing has since been scrapped http://www.singaporelawreview.org/2... to persuade the Aussie and UK grads to come home because many weren’t coming back to SG. If you were so sufficient why would they be so desperate? lol

    I dont understand whats so hard for your thick skull to understand. The ex CJ Yong Pung How and Chao Hick Tin who is Judge of Appeal, i hope you know which court is higher are also UK grads.

    You may like to know that many Australian grads are bosses to and making hiring decisions for local grads who work for them. Doesn’t that stink? To have your fate decided by and report to people allegedly earning “less” than “local arts grads” when NUS arts is a well known “dumping ground”?

  143. To Kevin Says:

    NUS law is not so bad as the rest of NUS, but I find it funny NUS students dare to criticise Australian universities when it’s Aussie universities that hold the highest number of championship for the Jessup Law Moot beating NUS. Not only that, the last time NUS even won was back in 2001, which was like what, a zillion years ago when it still goes around boasting to outsiders that it is a “big winner”.

    I just heard someone from NUS arts saying she heard so from her friends in school.

    Not only did ANU win this year in the latest, Australia holds the largest number of title winners THIS DECADE (most relevant). Sydney in 07, Queensland in 05, UWA in 03 and Melbourne Uni in 2000!


    I also know for a fact that in a lot of these major competitions, NUS sends a sizeable number of British graduates who are only in NUS to do their one year DipSing. (British, Irish and Australian law grads are required to do a one year diploma, which is conducted at NUS, take this as one of those conversation programmes you do when you convert an overseas driving license). For those not in the know, http://www.ukslss.net/dipsing.php

    cannot name names here or it will reveal my identity but hey hey, some of it is online for all to see. http://law.nus.edu.sg/news/archive/...

    “The NUS team consisted of Colin Chow, Victoria Xue, Tan Mingfen, Sue Ann Gan and Michelle Quah. Colin is a Third Year LLB student and Mingfen and Victoria are Final Year LLB Students. Michelle and Sue Ann are students in the one-year Diploma in Singapore Law programme.”

    The DipSing has since been scrapped http://www.singaporelawreview.org/2... to persuade the Aussie and UK grads to come home because many weren’t coming back to SG, and why bother, when they can earn much more.

    Isn’t most of the “bench” reporting to her? Sure you can claim that in your perception Law Soc president is not close to CJ in terms of prestige. It’s really a shame that the CJ that the general population have etched in their minds is a Cambridge graduate who helped start GIC, by name of Yong Pung How who succeeded Wee Chong Jin, another Cambridge grad.

    CJ Yong married a LSE graduate, and his daughter became an Overseas Merit Scholar who went to Oxbridge and is today a perm sec.

  144. applBy Says:

    in the long run, i guess its the talented people who do well. i have done my postgrad in NUS as a foreigner but i come from the best univ in india. and i am in the tech field.

    i can say that NUS undergrad quality is not comparable to India’s top undergrads. however, there are a handful of students who are good. and i am sure they do well. in general, the population is so so.

    singaporeans who get scholarships abroad are good and they do well. however, there are many singaporeans who study abroad using their money (not brains) and no American, Aus univ can save them. Yes, they can find a good job abroad, live well, drive cars, but big success, no.

    if NUS, NTU are churning out geniusees, are Singaporeans who attend British or Aus univs becoming geniuses . No ?? Simply bcus they are not good enough.

    And ya, Money is not the only metric of brilliance. A banker in SG can earn more than a prof of economics in Harvard or MIT.

    I personally believe that an Intelligent Singaporean NUS undergrad can do better than an not so smart Singaporeans who attends an Aussie univ.

    These things cannot be generalized. Its a combination of factors – individual + external factors which determine the overall success.

  145. lol Says:

    To Kevin: Just to show people here what a retard you are, please go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip....

    The question now is, can you read?

    The bench reports to her? LOL. Please google what bench means, ok?

    Last I checked, my dear aussie man, Cambridge wasn’t in Australia. Stop conflating your arguments please. One thing at one time will work for someone like you, if you try hard enough. And you quote our ex CJ arh, then our latest CJ leh, is he from Australia?

  146. Come on Says:

    Come on guys, different people have different expectations. Some of you are comparing academic success based on uni/faculty/grades while the rest are comparing overall success based on monetary gain. There is no right or wrong but just a difference in perspective. So can you guys stop arguing? None of you are totally wrong/correct.

  147. I didn't sleep with Jack Neo Says:

    I went to Berkeley, and I have seen some people going to state schools doing better than those who don’t and vice versa. Unless you are going to the big investment banks or consulting outfits, in the long run it does not matter which school you go to. Working life as you know it is not about just showing your qualification paper and expecting people to kow tow. A lot of other things such as office politics, cunning, ability to kiss ass and ruthlessness are often better predictors on how well you do in the workplace, and I am not ashamed to say that I have some of those “skills” as well. I am of course not talking about occupations like surgeon where you either know how to cut or not, but occupations like business, law and many others are not so black and white.

  148. Haha Says:

    i always hear comments from indians who came to Singapore from India (just like applBy) that the quality of our grads here are not as good as the quality of grads in India. Firstly, i dont think its an apple to apple comparison. The population in India is so much larger so of course there would definitely be a larger number of talented people in India. Secondly, i dont think we are inferior if we compare the best in SG against the best in India. Thirdly, i am rather sick of hearing such comments. If these Indians feel so proud of their own country/grads, why dont they just go back to their own country and work there? If they want to work here then i think it is wiser for them to keep their mouth shut. If you are in need of a shelter somewhere and someone offers you a shelter that is inferior to what you had, will you start criticizing or appreciate the offer?

  149. I didn't sleep with Jack Neo Says:

    To Haha: You mentioned yourself that “The population in India is so much larger so of course there would definitely be a larger number of talented people in India.” and that’s obviously very accurate, but then you went on and say that the best in Singapore compares with the best in India. Really? First of all, I am not Indian, I am Indonesian Chinese, but in my experience, Indians really kick ass. Now my points below are really about the business world since most people here are only concerned about material success.

    There are my world class companies in the world headed (or once headed) by people from India like Pepsi, McKinsey, Bain & Co, Citigroup etc. People like Mittal started from zero and managed to create a gigantic company that spans the world (10 percent of the world’s steel output is nothing to sneeze at), not to mention the countless Silicon Valley companies.

    Mittal and Nooyi didn’t even graduate from the very top schools in India.

    For the life of me though, I can’t even name one Singaporean who’s made it extremely big outside of Singapore and for that matter an Indonesian and for that matter any Chinese. They are all really just “jago kampong” (great at home only assisted by the numerous government support).

  150. Haha Says:

    I didn’t sleep with Jack Neo: What you said is true but only to a certain extent. Time plays a very important part in such comparison. As you know, Singapore is still a relatively “young” country as compared to others like India and US and we have evolved at a much greater pace than the rest since we got our independence. I am not sure how “old” India is but if you want to compare about global success/achievements, i think we should compare on an equal time basis. For example, it is fair to compare whether a baby or an adult run faster?

  151. Jill Neo Says:

    Are you referring to Ho Ching in your last statement? :)

    I can think of 2 “world class” companies founded by Singaporeans.

    Creative is still a very good company, despite its recent stock price. It’s built up from scratch by Sim Wong Hoo, who’s a poly grad.

    Another company, though smaller, is Interwoven. It’s founded by Singaporean Ong Peng Tsin. He also co-founded Match.com, which is one of the largest dating networks.

  152. Haha Says:

    I didn’t sleep with Jack Neo: One more point. The fact that India has a much larger pool of talents helps as well. The probabiliy of success will be much higher as there are more Indians than Singaporeans everywhere in the world.

  153. I didn't sleep with Jack Neo Says:

    To Haha: I am not sure how time plays into it. China and Indonesia are very old, but have you seen anyone for these 2 countries kicking ass outside their country? Not really. In fact a lengthy history may very well server as a big hindrance since old culture and ways of doing things tend to stand in the way. And talking about infrastructure, Singapore is much more advanced than India so who is the baby and who is the adult? The facts are as is: the best of certain countries will always in general outperform the best of other countries. Another example the Germans will always outperform the rest of the Europeans (always have, always will). The rest of the Europeans only win when they gang up with the rest of the world against Germany. Facts will always be facts. Another uncomfortable fact: many more Jews have won the Nobel price compared to other races.

  154. I didn't sleep with Jack Neo Says:

    Well two Indonesians also cofounded Marvell Semiconductors and if you look it up, they supply some of the biggest companies like Apple, and they are US Dollar billionaires, but I still think working up the ladder in Pepsi and McKinsey is harder. You are Asian and you have to overcome the glass ceiling i.e. whites only club and in the case of Pepsi the person is a woman, which makes it quadrably hard.

  155. Haha Says:

    I didn’t sleep with Jack Neo: Well said. For the time factor, i am only looking at Singapore and not China/Indo. I stil believe that if given the same amount of time and same number of talents as India, Singapores will be able to achieve global success as well.

  156. applBy Says:


    I just stated a fact…The kind of students we have in IITs is far better than NUS…it is a fact…now, dont get hurt over this fact…i was not trying to insult anyone here…btw, NUS openly gives scholarships to IIT grads to study or do research in NUS…

    Just bcus I went to NUS to study does not imply that I should keep singing praises of Singapore Univs…I said that NUS is world class in terms of facilities but not students…IITs are world class in terms of Students , but not in terms of facilities…

    Indians come to SG bcus they get better facilities n infrastructure…If India had the same infrastructure, no one will come to SG…so dont feel hurt that a poorer country like India can produce smarter people…Just admit SG has strengths and so does India…

  157. Haha Says:

    applBy: I have never deny that SG has strengths and so does India. Well you can claim that students in IITs are far better than NUS but i dont agree with you. I have worked with countless indians like you before and i dont find them much superior than me. Maybe there are indeed a few brilliant ones from IITs who have achieved some global success but that does not mean the general IITS students are better than NUS students. If in generall all IITs students are really better, i must have been real unlucky to have worked with so many sub-standard ones who came to SG and complained so much but never able to show that they are really that good.

  158. applBy Says:


    u r taking things personally. i am saying an average guy from IIT is better than an average guy from NUS. IIT’s admission criterion is also a lot tougher. obly, if u take a poor student from IIT and compare with the good ones in NUS, its unfair.

    also, u shd realise that Indians have a tendency to take jobs in management n IT irrespective of their background. now, usually such people are good but not great. good enough to get jobs abroad but not exceptional. what can u expect from a Civil grad who is in IT. but u will find lots of such non-IT people in IT in singapore.

    also, just bcus someone was more motivated when he was 18 does not imply he will outperform u when is 30-35 too. in the long run, a lot of things matter in addition to an intelligent mind.

    i find that in most areas today, India offers better prospects. but people still live in Singapore bcus the Infrastructure is better, life is better too. they are not focussed on jobs but more focussed on life.

  159. applBy Says:

    let me also point out to u that most indians who get scholarships at NTU/NUS undergrads are those who cannot make it to IITs in India (atleast not in good depts). and they must be better or atleast above average than what SG offers else why would they be given scholarships.

    in my view, NUS offers a good life n education. i studied in Europe for 2 years and then joined NUS. and i was always happy with life at NUS. NUS has all the facilities one needs to do research. so i feel that good students will surely benefit from NUS. however, admission standards are definitely not as tough as IITs. its indisputable.

  160. Haha Says:

    ok ..what ever :)

  161. there is always one better and one worse Says:

    i thought we talking COE…why is everyone discussing a piece of paper.

    It is kept in my drawer for years now. I recognised it is a life experience, very good part of my life in fact. it is not all.

    be content with you have. make the best of your capabilities. i studied Ozzie land because i cant get into uni. but 8 yrs gone. i having being earning 5 digit pay, got my own private apt (2 bedders, a BMW….) – and many of my friends are doing better in fact.

    but i think it is more hardwork, working diligently and more “continue to grow”..

    and be content with what you have …

  162. Entrepreneur Says:

    Dear all elites,

    No matter which Us or JCs you from, which cars you drive, you are the elites. Please help Singapore to set up big Singaporean MNCs like Acer, MSI, Gigabytes, HTC, Proton, Perodua, Hyundai, Kia, Philips, Toshiba, Fujitsu, LG, Samsung. No Nobel prize never mind.

    You have benefited from your good education here or overseas, please help Singapore, our motherland to do us proud.

    Very paiseh to go IT Show, Comex. All Taiwanese brands, Korean brands. Our Creative Technology is running out of steam. While TSMC is getting bigger, we are losing our CSM – Chartered Semi-con.

    Don’t just graduate and find a 5-digit job, come help us to build a few solid Singaporean companies. Nobel prizes too siong. Come elites, we need you!

    We are Singapore! Save Singapore!

  163. car lover Says:

    Wow, the comments are so out of topic. Haha

  164. student Says:

    I’m a student on a stat board overseas scholarship studying in US now. eh, studying overseas very sian 1 leh.. very lonely, now weather so cold, -20 degree, miss singapore food, miss friends n family. haiz.. its really not easy studying overseas. but anyway, studying overseas is really not as glamorous as people think. people paint such a beautiful picture of it but its not really true. you must be in my shoes to really understand what i mean. there’s really not much difference in uni education too. just that the professors are ang mo usually, sometimes if suay will tio AH TIONGS (prc) professors and TAs also.. sama sama to singapore nus or ntu.

  165. @student Says:

    very true. any place is good only if you either has deep passion for what u r doing or u have sufficient resources at disposal. being a student with limited resources (money n all), its easy to realize and miss the benefits of singapore. but then u r a student n young, so just focus on studies and hopefully, u will appreciate this opportunity in the future.

    good luck

  166. wrongwrong Says:

    to @student

    think u misunderstood. ppl think going overseas uni, automatic u become good. that is a joke.

  167. Woho Says:

    I have studied abroad as well 10 years ago and what I value today most about that experience are the friends I made and learning about living & thinking independently. Don’t stress out about your studies but try to enjoy it and socialise as much as possible.
    Not likely that you can do such a thing after you graduated…

  168. Wake Up Says:

    Irony is that the forum was about high COE prices.. and all the comments are about universities.

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