According to our calculations, your citizenship is worth $4,511 more than permanent residents per year. For that, you have to serve NS if you are male, and watch some of your PR friends sell their HDBs for a good profit and then return to their (sometimes) cheaper home countries to enjoy retirement.
As a Singapore citizen, here’s what you enjoy (reference: ST, 24 Oct 2009 online link):
- Child birth. If you stay in a Class B2+ ward, you pay $475. For PR, it’s $506, which is $31 more. The average Singapore woman has about 1 child and will thus get the $10,000 baby bonus (we ignore the fact that she will have to split the bonus with her husband). Spread over 20 years of providing for the child, the baby bonus amounts to $500 per year. Total child birth benefit: $31 + $500 = $531/yr.
- Childcare subsidy. Singaporean working mum gets a $300/mth subsidy while PRs get nothing. Total childcare benefit: $3,600/yr.
- School fees. PRs pay $2,884 more than Singaporeans per child for the 16 years of education all the way to university. This is $180/yr.
- Marriage fees. Insignificant.
- Housing. Though PRs are not eligible to buy new flats, many Singaporeans also do not buy new flats. Since both citizens and PRs are eligible to buy resale flats, for ease of comparison, we will treat housing benefit as insignificant. [Added 1 Nov: Married citizens enjoy a $30k-$40k grant, while singles can get $11k-$20k. Spread over the long term of owning a home, say over 30 years, this is about $666/yr per person in addition to the $4,511 calculated previously, making a total of $5,177/yr. Thanks to the reader who highlighted this.]
- Health subsidies. Citizens get about 10% more subsidy than PRs. Assuming that an average citizen spends $20k over 10 years, this 10% difference amounts to $200/yr.
Grand total: $4,511 per year. Note that if you’re single, it would be just $200 per year.
No wonder the ST reporter Zakir Hussain said “the distinctions between citizens and PRs could not have been clearer.”
Do you think your citizenship should be worth a lot more?
153 Comments
well… what u said is true. the society on the whole is already materialistic enough to start with. but having political leaders and religious leaders who keep stressing on wanting top dollars is going to make it worse. the state papers at one point was also talking about the high life day in and day out.
what are we to do? we are shaped by our genes, our culture, our leaders and the media.
our leaders keep saying you have to work hard, work hard, work hard, else everything will come crumbling down. so how to have kids and have time for them when you don’t even have time for yourself?
don’t forget that it’s also the government that formulated policies to encourage women to work full time (eg working mother child relief).
no doubt our greed is partly to blame, but there’s a concerted effort to entice the people work hard. kids are not a priority.
to have more kids, the government should have housewife child relief instead. with more women staying at home, there’ll be more babies! 🙂
Not true. Singapore still attracts top talents and they are not here only for money. Some are already very rich to begin with, i.e. Jet li, Gong Li. There are also many talented business managers and bankers who are extremely delighted to be converted to Singaporean. The question is how can Singapore focus more on these talents and deter the mediocre ones from coming?
You don’t get it. Singapore doesn’t want to compete aggressively in the technology field. It’s more of maintaining the infrastructure/business and it’s an irony because we are actually get a lot of tech and engineering resources from developing countries. If you are in that field; that probably explains why you are mixing with the wrong people (who watches too much local TV) in the first place. Singapore needs to set clear priorities and if this it not where we can to play in, then stop getting foreign resources in that field and focus on other sectors. Of course, if we are lucky and some real talents come up with the next “ipod”, we will adore him!
Most Singaporeans are easily contented people – I’m not frustrated when I not able to buy a car or condo. I’m frustrated with I have to share the already constrained internet connection, HDB flats and public transport with PR and foreigners who ungratefully slam Singaporeans in public forums.
It’s fair really. If you are a real talent, we will definitely welcome you. If you don’t like us that much, you should perhaps ask yourself why and reflect what are the significant contributions have you brought to Singapore. Would any other developed countries want your “talent” in criticizing their own citizens?
well
money I think the most reason tlent come to singapore. Seems you just focus with those top talent.
Imagine without foreign worker
Does Singapore still maintain living cost in this level? Who will clean rubbish? who will work in constructions line?
Do you have time to take care baby without maid?
Something more complex than just about high tech/IT.
Even at this time do you realize so many retrenchment @ Seagate, sony, Hitachi and all those high skill manufacturer?
Singapore somehow really depend on his neighbour.
Water from malaysia, all fruits & vegetables are imports. Even when Indonesia banned export sand, really affecting construction Industry (and singapore reclamation projects)
If those neighbour country developed very well,
let say Batam become par with singapore, what do you think?
don’t get us wrong.
we welcome foreign workers to our shores, but only to work for money, and NOT to enjoy the SAME benefits as citizens.
in fact, i sincerely thank all the hardworking foreign workers – cleaners, construction workers, maids, etc – for keeping our country humming along. i’m sure we pay them well enough, otherwise they won’t be here.
what we are unhappy about is that there are many many low-grade, subpar, inferior PERMANENT RESIDENTS who are here to compete with citizens for benefits like medical and education subsidies. they enjoy almost the same as what we citizens enjoy.
they get a lot, but they don’t contribute much.
we don’t mind if they are highly skilled and specialized workers who add value to our economy, but i’m thoroughly disappointed when more and more inferior people like the zhang yuan yuan types come here to exploit our lax FT policy with the selfish intention of going back home in a few years. because they’re inferior, they don’t add value, yet they enjoy ALL the benefits that come with their permanent residency.
they get a lot, but they don’t contribute much. it’s like paying a high salary to an unskilled worker. we’re overpaying them.
these PR benefits aren’t peanuts, but we’re getting monkeys.
foreign workers are OK.
but inferior and selfish permanent residents are NOT OK.
Basically, you want foreigners to come to Singapore and live a life which is of 20% lower standard than that of a similar Singaporeans. You perhaps want them to pay more for all the infrastructure like school, education, medical, etc. And you think that real Geniuses will come to Singapore to be second class residents.
The fact is two people doing the same job must have the same quality of life. If you discriminate, the talented ones will leave. Foreigners should probably spend 20% more and then retire to their home countries. So that Singapore benefits from their work and yet renders them incapable of living in Singapore.
In every country, lot of mediocre people can enter through universities by paying their way through.But after that, they have to find a job on their own merit. But to become a PR, one has to be fulfill ICA specified requirements.
All the arguments here point to simple Selfishness. I guess the Singaporeans who detest the PRs most are at the bottom of the pile in Singapore so they blame foreigners for all their problems. For every inferior PR, there must be 20 far more inferior citizens. Learn to compete Globally. Cannot expect the Govt to spoon feed its citizens all their life.
If Singapore is not good enough for you, why come to Singapore (study?) in the 1st place? I bet your study here is also free for u right? If want to join Singapore, why dont you convert to Singapore citizenship and enjoy the same benefit?
Are you one of those foreigner that is qualified to covert to Singaporean but choose to “dig gold” from Singapore and go back to your root country to enjoy the fruit that you ripped off with at the later stage? Or taking Singapore as a passport/stepping stone to your easier access to other countries in future?
Give you one inch and u want one feet. Better stay put in your root country and dont become an betrayer due to your unloyalty to your country man, to enjoy your own citizenship benefit (if that is what you are so greedy of.
PR is not supposed to enjoy same benefit as their ancestor and them do not make any contribution to Singapore in the past. The only benefit should be the money they earned. If they don’t think the money is good enough, or Singapore is not a safe country, nobody force them to come to Singapore to be in the “inferior” (if that is what you think so) category.
so in short..
we are singaporean do not need PR/FT
we just just need foreign worker?
Maybe singapore population will be less and lesser in the future.
We can see from our aging population
from statistic singapore’s birth rate 1.3.
Not counted those prefer Scandinavia 🙂
We are living in borderless world
My study was free but then most countries in the world offer scholarships at graduate level, and, without any bond. The same rules exist in all countries. I am grateful to Singapore for the opportunity.
And, I live Singapore a lot. Great place, efficient, clean, safe, best food in the world, great entertainment. Though its a bit crowded and getting expensive day by day. I want to work at a place building real technology for sometime so that I can get an important and lead role in my job in future in Singapore.
Ofcoz, I want to work abroad bcus its useful for my career. But if u ask me to grow old in Singapore, I will take it. And as a citizen, not a PR. I will not want to live like a PR and leave Singapore after 10 years. I will live like a Citizen. If not, I wont go back to Singapore. No timepass in Singapore for me.
I will try to look for a job at a slighlty senior position in a year or two, then move to Singapore. Btw, my wife is a Singapore PR and we take Singapore very seriously and consider our home for all practical purposes.
Now, I am a foreigner who really like Singapore. But, when I hear from Singaporeans complaining about foreigners, it makes me so angry. I may not know a lot about your history, but I live by the rules. This situation will exist in all countries but still, it will be nice to be welcomed, particularly, when we appreciate Singapore as a place. I am more worried about people and less about the place.
As a Singaporean, I think that we need foreign talents so that jobs will not be lost when mnc relocate to a cheaper location.
Also foreign talents help to ensure mnc can continue to function when sg males go for ns and sg females go on maternity leave.
If Singapore fails to attract foreign talents and mnc relocate elsewhere, we are finished as a nation.
Of course, those who can leave will certainly leave but our govt needs to take care of those who can not leave.
Let us welcome foreign talents and not discriminate against them and together we can make Singapore a better place for all of us to live in.
i welcome true talents to be our PRs and wish they can convert to be citizens, but i absolutely detest free riders to also demand an unfair share of the great PR giveaways.
to fcb, if you’re a talented PR who makes positive contribution, and not a zhang yuan yuan free rider type, nobody will begrudge you being a PR. don’t be overly sensitive and react to our criticism of inferior PRs, if you aren’t inferior to begin with. or are you admitting you’re inferior?
ya, my wife and i were both phd students at nus. she got hers already, and i will get mine in a few months. so, hopefully, we will qualify to be citizens or PRs. we just want to be able to live a good life and get meaningful creative jobs. i consider myself intelligent but need a bit more experience before i can act as a leader in my work.
i have lived in europe also and i know that Singapore’s immigration policy is kinder. i had a student pass for 5 years while in europe, u renew every year. so, i never felt like a foreigner here. could easily go out and come in as if its my own country. i truly feel i can be a lot happier in Singapore than europe or USA, although, i want to work abroad to be good at my work.
that said, i can understand some of the pain that Singaporeans feel regarding foreigners. maybe, i would feel the same if some outsider came and screwed my home. but overall, singapore is still the most foreigner friendly place i have been to. and i have lived there for 5 years and my wife for 6. so, i know what i am talking about.
to #59 singaporean, don’t tell me you also welcome low-grade, inferior and subpar foreigners to be our PRs, who will pay same tax rate as citizens but without responsibilities like NS, who will enjoy almost similar medical subsidies as citizens but have a home country to escape to when things turn bad here (eg war, disaster, recession), and whose children will get same priority as citizens in primary school places and almost equal fee subsidies but can always escape NS by renouncing PR status at the right time.
don’t misunderstand me, for high-grade talented PRs, i think we should even give them more benefits to encourage them to convert to citizens (and of course take up citizenship responsibilities).
it’s the low-grade, inferior, subpar PRs that get on my nerve.
please read carefully, the keywords are “low-grade”, “inferior” and “subpar”. if you’re none of the above, you have no reason to be offended.
“maybe, i would feel the same if some outsider came and screwed my home.” – fcb
exactly what i’m feeling now after reading Mr Sam Ahmed screwing singaporeans in our own state paper:
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST+Forum/Story/STIStory_451271.html
To thrive as a city-state, we need to build the platform to deliver higher-value work. Higher-value work naturally requires more specialization, and requires people with such special skills. Without these people, no high-value work can be done. For those work that is now of lower value, they will eventually disappear in the city-state, mostly moving to other countries and very often to countries where migrants had come before to the city-state to practiced on.
Some work by their nature of servicing the local population cannot be moved, barber, clearing garbage, etc., and in a thriving city-state economy, there will be more demand for this type of services. Some of these are dirty work that people do not like to do and will therefore be taken up by low-skilled migrants, who still can see benefits from a seemingly low pay, because 1) the strong dollar he is being paid in and 2) the quality of living below the poverty line in the city-state is still much better than what he have in his hometown. Without these low-cost people, the cost of maintaining the living standard will increase substantially. Another thing to consider is that on the service side, there are also high-value services (like $300 hair cut, $1000 meal, etc.) that will demand highly-skilled workers to provide the service.
So as a person living in this city-state starting out, you have multiple opportunities to move into various high-value opportunities, but in competition with people migrating into the city state. The alternative scenario is that of a laggard city-state with no resources and would need to use the weak dollar to import life basic necessities. In this kind of context, a common sense approach to govern is to have stronger inclination towards having a lax migrant policy, including both skilled and unskilled workers, to encourage higher value work and reduced service cost of low-value work. And after that deal with issues, such as resident harmony and people who are affected when their livelihood gets affected by the changes.
The natural response as an individual is then to be able to move to doing higher value work, within the current profession or a separate profession. The pursuit of higher value will not stop and hence should be continuously pursued as well by the individual.
fcb at #3 said: “Zhang Yuan Yuan is not a super asset to Singapore. but, then blame your Singaporean ICA.”
ICA is under Ministry of Home Affairs. But as far as I can recall, Wong Kan Seng has never spoken a word on this FT issue and related policies. A humble citizen here wants to hear from you, sir.
And as usual, the Straits Times / Sunday Times is busy with measuring the number of steps from a cinema exit back into the mall. On politics, they’ll only report verbatim what the leaders said. As for political commentary, they will always agree and agree and say “move on” and “don’t begrudge”. Otherwise, they talk about everything under the sun except issues that may cause unhappiness.
If what’s said in the following link is true, even the reporters working in our national papers are not proud of their own work! How sad.
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/08/sph-an-insiders-confession/
I think I understand what the real issue behind the immigrant influx is. When I heard in 2004 that Singapore wants to increase its population from 4.5 million to 6 million, I thgt – are they crazy.
Already the country is quite crowded. But, I can probably understand the logic behind this. Assume that Singapore is suitable for just 4 million people. Anything more is putting pressure on the infrastructure.
The problem is that the age distribution of this 4 million is not correct. It is not enough to sustain the future populations needs of the country. There are too many people who are on the older or non child-producing side.
Thus, they are forcing additional people in the country to create the right balance of age-groups necessary for sustaining singapore’s population down the line, say 20-30 years.
This implies that the current generations will have to bear the burden of extra population, just in order to tackle the current imbalance in the population.
I bet if there were lot of young people in the current 4.5 million, Singapore wont need so many foreigners. But since the distribution is skewed, Singapore needs to add more younger people, even if that means burdening the infrastructure and paining the current generation of citizens.
This is just what I tght mite be the reason. Unfortunately, the current residents have to pay for this imbalance.
The problem is that for a Singaporean, additional pressure means discomfort.But your age-distribution in the population has become very distorted. You have too many people in the wrong age bracket. And hence, the current generation will have to increase the population so that 20 years from now, it will converge to a more optimal 5 million with proper age distribution.
u said that Singaporeans are materialistic #50, selfish #55, and also hopefully u can become a citizen/PR in #61.
Perhaps i can give u some of my views as a Singaporean and for u to appreciate why some people are feeling indignant and u dun quite get it.
Firstly, my opinion is that true foreign talents who can contribute should be welcomed to Singapore to contribute to Singapore’s economic growth and create jobs etc in line with our leaders’ objective.
But it turned out to be quite paradoxical becos instead of getting more jobs, citizens find themselves striving harder or even struggling to compete for jobs, university positions, housing, even mrt/bus seats etc etc in all aspects of our lives.
Let me give u a more specific eg. I graduated from where u did your Phd. When i was a student, I noticed that in certain faculties, foreigners make up about 5-6 students out of every 10 students. They get 5-digit figures tuition fee grants and scholarships per pax from our government (tax-payers’). And for every foreigner that gets a place in our university, 1 local citizen is devoid of the chance to get that study grant to study locally and often, has no choice but to contemplate studies overseas which is much much more costly (too bad if he/she can’t afford it). I feel grateful for being offered a place in local uni but sad for my peers who do not have this opportunity and the grant. U can argue that they are not gd enough but be grateful that u get to do your PhD for free at the expense of some other Singaporeans.
On the issue of “inferior, low-grade” workers, i think they are needed in our country..but it also depends on the kind of work that they are doing. If there are not enough citizens who are willing to become cleaners, contruction workers etc, then i think it is inevitable we need their help. But what about other other blue-collared jobs such as factory workers, food stall assistants etc? Are there no willing Singaporeans to do the jobs? Singaporeans who are more elderly, or less educated also have to compete with “low-grade, inferior” foreigners with these jobs.
Granted, companies want more energetic, younger and less-costly workers for commmercial reasons. But is there any law to protect the rights and priority of citizens who are willing and able to do the job?
These issues are perhaps not so relevant to the local rich, but prevalent amongst the middle class and low-income families in Sg. Foreigners are needed in Sg but the issue is where to draw the line between contributing to Singapore’s GDP growth versus compromising/sacrificing citizens’ rights, lifestyles and opportunities.
I think the government needs to think deeper, understand what’s happening on the ground, and convey their message better rather than just repeating because there are not enough babies, we need to top up numbers using foreigners to maintain GDP growth…Is there any other way to “improve” a nation besides increasing its GDP growth? Should GDP growth come at the expense of everything else? (Yes I know GDP is tagged to some people’s salaries..) What about comfort of living and sense of identity as a Singaporean? If PRs and citizens’ privileges are more or less the same and when I walk along Orchard Rd, out of 10 people, 5 people are not citizens, then what does it mean to be Singaporean? Just illustrating an example food for thought.
Hope fcb can contemplate some of these many issues before labelling us selfish and materialistc. (yes u’re right regarding your point in your last post, I just read it.)
Kevin, I don’t think we should be giving out permanent residence to low-skilled migrants. As another person suggested earlier, giving work permits, fair compensation and reasonable living conditions to them is already good enough. You wouldn’t want to adopt your maid, gardener and chauffeur as your children right?
Our FT policy is about “talents”, not low-skilled workers. The main complaint in this long thread of discussion is that there are already too many low-skilled PRs in Singapore.
Indeed the key issue is having too many low skilled foreigners.
That has caused increasing hardship on Singaporeans.
Singapore must always strive to be a business friendly port but there must be a balance.
The answer cannot be indiscriminate import of foreigners with the sole purpose of depressing wages to attract business here.
Long term that will be a lousy strategy.
We need to give Singaporeans a fighting chance.
When mangroves and coral reefs are destroyed your small fishes will never have a chance to grow into big fishes.
Bad analogy maybe but personally I look at the situation around me nowadays and wondered if I would be where I am with the competitions around now for my much younger fellow Singaporeans.
What doesn’t destroy you doesn’t always make you stronger.
There are reports in US that when people have a slow start in their careers they usually don’t all catch up.
Also when they get retrench during their primes they usually also don’t get back to where they are before.
These are all the same issues Singaporeans are facing and will probably get worst if we continue going down the path of global wage arbitrage.
Low-skilled foreigners reduce living expenses. I am not sure how many of the construction workers, maids, etc. are PRs, if any to begin with. For the skilled ones, it may be useful to differentiate between specialized skills where locally we have little supply and those with plentiful supply. It is also useful to draw a distinction between location dependent work (providing a service to a local directly) and location independent work (providing a service, making goods indirectly to other countries). So in this matrix, the population is generally frustrated at location independent work where there seems to be ample local supply. However, as the name implies, the work is location independent and hence it is the market forces that drive the costs down, and not foreigner depressing the wages. If we keep the foreigners out, the work will move elsewhere anyway. For those location dependent, skilled work, the foreigners are here mainly because of insufficient local willingness to take up the work at “depressed” wage. If we take these foreigners away, the cost of living goes up. In a way if we stretch the argument (which I admit is not foolproof), those who are now receiving normal wages end up as good as if they are willing to receive the depressed wage, because the cost has now gone up.
Kevin: Yes it’s true that Singapore competes globally and keeping a competitive workforce is vital to our viability as a preferred business location.
However there must be a balance to make sure our local workforce can compete on a level field.
We cannot do that in our environment when foreigners come here with just a fraction of our cost.
The long term effect will be devastating when our young skilled workforce are crowded out and deprived of the chance of developing upwards.
I have seen that in many companies I worked for and worked with.
I also don’t quite accept that low skilled work reduce living expenses.
As long as we pay living wages I don’t see why we cannot find local workforce.
Business large or small without any distinction will always drive down costs as long as they can get away with it.
Are the Walmarts, Costcos, even NTUCs and Sheng Songs doing their communities any good?
They provide things slightly cheaper but at what prices to their communities?
Our workforce needs to be nurtured.
The govt talked about the Singapore brand but it’s not helping with the current policies.
Plus I refuse to believe that sacrificing our workforce is the only way to keep our costs of doing business down or that it’s the only factor keeping businesses here.
The businesses that look for cheapest workforce will always be able to find somewhere else.
For example the electronics and manufacturing sector.
I don’t think maids and construction workers are PRs, but in the coffeeshop near where I live, there are PRs who run some of the stalls. How in the first place did they manage to get PR status, I don’t know. But if there are more of such PRs, the livelihood of some Singaporeans will be further affected. Not to mention that it’s extremely unfair to give these low-skilled people PR status.
Middleclass:
Let me give a hypothetical example of what I meant by increase in living costs. For example, if we eliminate foreign nurses, foreign helpers in hawker centres and foreign childcare giver (either in childcare or in the form of the maid), then we can imagine the hospital bills, hawker food prices and childcare services moving up. I am referring to individuals cost rather than company cost in this case. These are essentials to Singaporeans (no, you cannot take away hawker food from Singaporeans, can you?) and therefore wages will go up until a point it becomes viable for local people to work in those roles.
I think those starting out are not that big a problem because they can afford to switch and they do not have the burden of supporting a family. The biggest problems are people like us who are somewhat entrenched in the present roles and when the economic model suddenly changes, i.e., you can get regional IT managers at half the rate, we are in a challenging position.
We cannot blame the fact that the government has allowed someone from Timbuktu to cut our prices. It is simply that our work is becoming simple enough for other people with lesser cost to do.
So what do we do? We need to move into high-value sectors like finance and life science (if we are not there). We need to be willing to take up new skills to support new business needs (e.g., process re-engineering). We need to be enterprising to think about starting our own businesses. This is the reality.
Could anyone give a good example of a job that is best “saved” for a local?
I don’t know if kopi-tiam helpers are PR or not, but surely they are in demand, because I cannot do without my kopi-o and these people help to keep the prices of kopi-o down. This benefits a lot of kopi-o drinkers at the expense of eliminating locals aspiring to be kopi-tiam helpers.
Like some of the people who reads the forum, I like to sit one corner and shake leg too if I can, but I have not figured out how to do it without risking too much. These notions of foreign migrant restrictions seem to be riskier to me (and my kids) than the current migrant policies.
Kevin: Yes I do not ignore the reality of our economic challenges.
As I’ve always stated Singapore is a huge beneficiary of the global trade and we cannot turn away foreign talents that bring competitive edge to our economy.
What I’m however saying is that there’s no reason to relentlessly import any foreigners to keep wages low.
At the blue collar level we have high costs of land and rents but yet only concern ourselves with only cheap non skill labour costs?
At the white collar level do we need to import so many foreigners when Singaporeans can do the job.
Remembering not everyone starts at the high level and entry level jobs are always needed.
Also not everybody will eventually be able to work management or special skills jobs.
Unfortunately i don’t pretend to know the answers.
However I do see the damages done by the current policies and we need something better.
I don’t want my kids to grow up paying $200k education, $500k HDB housing and compete with a horde of foreigners for $1.8k entry level job.
The numbers just don’t add up.
We definitely need some cheap foreign workers like those in construction and even in kopitiam. These are work permit holders. I have no issue with them. I fully agree with having cheap labour to do the work that Singaporeans avoid.
My point is about PRs. Permanent Residents. Those who enjoy many subsidies with few responsibilities.
My personal observation is that there are more and more of such low-skilled PRs. Zhang Yuan Yuan is one of them. And so are some kopitiam stall owners I come across (they are not helpers).
In my opinion, we don’t need to give them PR. I would rather they stay as work permit holders.
As some people said, being a PR in Singapore is even better than being a citizen. So we must not frivolously give away PR to low-skilled inferior foreigners. We must be very selective and only give PR to high-skilled foreigners.
Again, please distinguish between high-skilled PRs, low-skilled PRs and work permit holders.
Let me try enlightening you from another angle. The main discussion is on skilled PRs. And on the contrary, PRs INCREASES the cost of living. Their sudden influx pushes the prices of flats and private apartments due to storage of supply. Most of us find flats less affordable now. They buy cars and push the prices of cars up. These are big ticket items, not your cheap kopi and hawker food. They also jam up public transports, so it takes longer travelling time, also another cost. It’s good if they bring in significant contributions to Singapore but most do not and authorities do not have good regulation to filter. Many years ago, PRs are confirmed very high caliber. Now flood gate opens, and probably, only 1 in 20 skilled PR now is better than average Singaporean, i.e. I don’t think kopitiam helper is very high caliber. So why are they PR? Why bring them in to take up space and jack up prices?
We are fine with your examples on low cost workers on work permit who do keep low cost to a certain extend. But can you share your views on skilled PR and their contributions and impact on costs?
what you’re trying to say is that the so called “skilled PRs” are actually “low-skilled PRs” and they are detrimental to our well being.
Kevin, any views?
nope, i mean if “low-skilled PRs” don’t bring in significant contributions to Singapore, why should we offer them PR? Work permit will do.
From the discussions here, I see that for Singaporeans here, immigrants
are nothing more than commodities. If they are useful, bring them in
else keep them out. How can foreigners be useful to us. If they are useful,
they are ok, else kick them out.
Its okay to have cheap laborers who will do inferior work since Singaporeans
are too good for that, and not bcus they are brighter or anything, but just bcus
they were born in a slightly richer country. That makes them better. The fact
is you have no problem taking advantage of under-privelaged foreginers or
foreigners who can increase your GDP. The problem is with the foreigners
who are in between because they are eating your pie and crowding your MRTs
and roads. So, its either the cheapest possible labourers or high class PRs.
The ones in the middle are the ones who hurt you the most. Either way,
Singaporeans should not be pained. Their life should be world class, and there
should be poor people slaving for them and talented people growing the economy
for them.
What you do not realize is that by treating people as objects, you are insulting
their dignity. However, people from poorer countries need Money more than Dignity.
I feel no sympathy for people who treat poorer people from poorer countries with
contempt and have no shame in making them work like cleaners and maids for
a pittance of a salary. But when it interfares with the comfort and lifestyle,
whine like anything.
Most of you have Zero respect for foreigners. You just want to use them for your own
benefit and comfort. So, I do not see why a foreigner should not use Singapore
for his/her benefit. You would do the same if you had a chance. Just that those
who do not have the chance and are stuck, complain.
fcb said “have no shame in making them work like cleaners and maids for a pittance of a salary”
do you honestly think they’ll come here if the money is not good? there are countless examples of foreign workers (on work permit) who are so happy to work here. the money they earn can get them a very good living when they go back. my maid is one of them and my family treat her well and with respect. she’s happy too. it’s win-win.
nobody looks down on these foreign workers. we are all grateful for their help here.
however, the discussion here is about inferior permanent residents who are not worth the permanent residence given to them. i hope you’re not one of them.
MM Lee said “If (the PRs) don’t help us raise the level, they won’t be citizens. We are not stupid.”
i respectfully wish to point out that it’s THEM who are not stupid. why on earth would a PR convert to be a citizen? he already gets to enjoy the benefits of citizenship with few responsibilities.
no wonder there’s unbridled outburst at the Straits Times discussion board:
http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=26713
I often see elderly women collecting cans and selling paper napkins in food courts. Why dont you hire one of your Singapore elderly to take care of your kids. I dont see why Singaporeans cant be maids if they can collect cans.
Maybe, you think working as a maid in SG is a win-win situation. What I see if that a person is so helpless in her own country, that she is willing to work in Singapore for a saving of 2-300 dollars, with perhaps not much prospects in life.
Maybe you think thats more than what a Maid deserves in life. If she were born in Finland, she would have gotten Free University Education.
So, what you dont understand is that her destiny has left her with not much hope. But there are many who can change their destinies.
sorry i don’t get you. do you mean that everyone ought to ask “why am i not born the emperor of this world?”
please enlighten us on how you would “change their destinies.”
(it’s strange this discussion on low-skilled PRs has veered into a question of “destinies”.)
“why on earth would a PR convert to be a citizen? he already gets to enjoy the benefits of citizenship with few responsibilities.”
Haha. Well said. Well said. The leaders just don’t get it. What are we to do?
Noone needs to ask why he/she is not the emperor. But, its ok to ask why one cannot have a respectable life. You have tagged what respectable life for a foreign maid is. You should have hired a Singaporean maid. Why didnt you ? To save money ?? Dont you care for your own citizens.
This is the same sentiment that all employers have. They replace expensive workers with cheaper workers. Its only when one gets retrenched , does one talk about Cheap labor. As long as you are the employer, you want to hire the cheapest possible employee.
Its natural. People only complain when they are at the receiving end. What you lack is what Obama calls EMPATHY.
Among all these issues, all you choose to discuss is that of low quality PR bcus thats the only place where u are getting a RAW DEAL. All other evils of your system n human nature is ok, since it benefits Singaporeans.
How about yourself? Why aren’t you saving the hungry children in Africa? One dies every few seconds. Where’s your empathy?
Why don’t you adopt a few of them? Why not ask your parents to adopt a few too, so you can have more brothers and sisters to discuss the issue of empathy?
Don’t be foolish. Of course people take care of their own kind.
Peace. Then, there is no point convincing me of this low-quality PR cause. Bcus, I am not affected by them yet. And, I am happy that they can make some money so that, one day their children can have a chance to be proud citizens or high-quality talent somewhere else. That how people grow. You had your chance. Now, they are getting theirs. To me, Singapore Govt is like Robin Hood.
All you had to do was produce more children. For that too, you need foreigners. Have more kids and get rid of these low-quality PR. Its as simple as that.
I wanted to understand what this issue is all about. But it boils down to material benefits that some are loosing due to some unwanted PRs. There is really nothing deep or intellectual about all this. And there is no more insight I can get from this discussion.
you are here to work and earn a living and have a better life, just like all Singaporeans who are here to earn a living, who want a better life. Aren’t you here for a better material well-being as well?
Yet, you are the 1st person to complain and criticize the citizens. This trend started on 31st Oct, you made the first challenge on Singaporeans 2 hours later calling us “dumb” and that PR and foreigners are more superior to average Singaporeans. Do you have any respect for anyone? Perhaps you should look in the mirror and reflect upon your postings – they are unconstructive and an utter waste of time.
Given your maturity, I’m surprised that you are a PHD student. My government shouldn’t have given you the scholarship. With your attitude, nobody will welcome you or your family. Wish you all the best in your career and lots of luck if you want to be promoted to team leader.
My advice is that you stop wasting your time complaining here and spend more constructive time focusing on your work instead.
singapore is robin hood, robbing who to help who ??
In response to some of the comments directed to me, I agree that we should not encourage people who migrate here long term without contributing significantly to the economy. And I like to believe most people agree to this statement too.
In my preceding paragraph, the ambiguity lies with “significant” contribution. I did a quick search on Singapore PR qualifications and noted that one important criteria is that those on working pass need to show that they earn SGD30K the last year. I would imagine the policy makers took this rule to also mean that students with potential to generate SGD30K when working are also good to stay.
In other words, would I be fair to say that those who opposed to low-skilled PR would prefer that the 30K be adjusted upwards? 30K is about $2+K per year (including AWS and a month bonus), which I think is about the average starting pay of diploma and degree holders combined (fair?).
I also sense that there is an undercurrent that there is a lot of PRs who are exploiting loopholes to become PR, without meeting the 30K ballpark at all (e.g., coffee shop owners).
Generally right?
time has since changed. living standards have changed. there will be some who are unable to cope with this. and the speed has further compounded that struggle and widen the divide between the have n have nots.
it is a curse of development. study the rest of the world economies, and then you wont be surprised to find similar stories.
SG can no longer compete solely on costs think China, India, Indonesia. the economy has to move up the value chain. competition provides an avenue for sorting out the weak.
missing out on opportunities should not drive up anti competition sentiments. protectionism is not in our long term interest. it is a selfish and short term thinking.
law of nature dictates evolution. the strong feed on the weak. that will not change. however, it can be alleviated. how much depends on our willpower.
for all the altruism being espoused. how many have put that into action?
I don’t think some of the PRs I see are even making 30k. Maybe I’m wrong. Or maybe there are certain loopholes they are exploiting, eg one PR can bring in another family member to be PR?
law of nature dictates evolution. the strong feed on the weak. that will not change.
Birds also migrate, in response to changes in food availability, habitat or weather.
http://news.omy.sg/News/Local%2BNews/Story/OMYStory200911011517-102354.html
Please stop the mentality that studying in a top school either locally or overseas is considered “elite”. I always find that comment hilarious. What exactly is so “elite” about people from better ranked universities? Please enlighten me. Is it because they are considered having higher status than those who have not studied in a highly ranked college? I personally know of people who have not completed university and yet command a salary many here can only dream of.
Secondly to all the PRs reading, you’ve come to Singapore in search for a better future, so please stop complaining because you owe our country for giving you an opportunity.
1) There is no top school in Singapore.
2) Yes, to your 2nd question.
3) I’m sure you know of yada yada blah blah. People like you who pin your self esteem and hope and dreams on statistical outliers and knowingly blind to common logic are the very epitome is how poor education and good education differ. As well as the ensuing disaster of being poorly educated.
This page OneHub summarizes the benefits of Singapore Citizen. It comes with full comparison for every sector: childcare, healthcare, housing, education, etc. There will definitely be pros and cons; but be open-minded.
Cheerios,
Onehubster
Lover jailed for torching fish farm
Sat, Dec 05, 2009
The Straits Times
Lover jailed for torching fish farm
China national sobbed and said if she were to be jailed, she might lose her PR status. -ST
A CLEANER who had a dispute with her lover over financial and personal matters torched his fish farm, causing damage of more than $200,000.
Yesterday, Liu Gui Ling, 37, a Chinese national, was jailed for nine weeks by Community Court Judge Soh Tze Bian for mischief.