Does Your Income Match Your Housing Type?
December 5th, 2009
Many people often wonder if they can afford to stay in private housing. There are various ways to find the answer. You can ask a bank, calculate your debt ratios, use our 7.6x guideline, or compare your income with the average income of your desired housing type – which is the main topic of this article.
The easy way is to ask your banker. But if you and your spouse are working professionals with stable incomes, your banker will most likely grant you the loan even if you will be overstretching yourselves to pay the loan installments. See how a couple got saddled with a property loan they can hardly afford.
To be safe, we recommend you carefully consider your condo purchase (or landed property purchase). Read our articles on debt ratios and 7.6x guideline, and do your sums properly. And with the recent release of the Household Expenditure Survey (HES) report by the Singapore Department of Statistics, there is one more way to confirm if you’re suited for a certain housing type.
According to the HES report, the average monthly household income of families staying in private housing is $17,795/mth.
Families staying in landed properties make an average of $20,427/mth, while those in private apartments (including condos) earn an average of $16,311/mth.
If you and your spouse earn far below these amounts, you have to at least be aware that you will be far below average.
If you stay in HDB or plan to buy a bigger HDB flat, here are the numbers for you to do the comparisons:
- 1- and 2-room HDB flats – average monthly household income is $1,186
- 3-room HDB flats – average monthly household income is $3,503
- 4-room HDB flats – average monthly household income is $5,114
- 5-room and Executive HDB flats (including maisonettes) – average monthly household income is $8,177
See also Leong Sze Hian’s observations on the HES report.
Poor Folk Says:
December 6th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Based on my very amatuer understanding of this figure, I have one observation.
I wish to ask what happened to those whose income fall between $8117 and $16311?
You can’t buy a flat once you are above $8000 and you aren’t an “average” before you reach $16311.
Is everyone who earn between that amount over stretched then?
mass market condos Says:
December 6th, 2009 at 9:59 am
would be your answer
those in the heartland areas with avg prices from 500-700psf
Poor Folk Says:
December 6th, 2009 at 11:45 am
But what up-ed the average income from $8000 to $16311?
Surely you need to have a whole load of very high income earners to tilt the figures this way.
hdb Says:
December 6th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
who says you can’t buy a flat once you are above $8k? all PRs and citizens can always buy from the resale market regardless of income. it’s only if you want to enjoy subsidy that the $8k limit kicks in ($10k for ECs).
hdb Says:
December 6th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
where are those between $8000 and $16000? simple – they are either living in 5-rm flats or in the lower end condos.
you can also ask the same question for the $3k-$5k or $5k-$8k gaps for 3,4,5 rooms hdb.
the gaps are bigger at the top because of the effect of tail-end distributions.
Condi Says:
December 6th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I’m a condo dweller. Family income only 12k. Is this far below the mean? Does it help if my condo is the mass market type?
not true Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 10:37 am
i don’t agree you need a really high income to match a condo living. interest rates are so low, so affordability goes up.
my wife and i earn a combined $10000 and we just bought a $1.5m condo in a good district. mortgage installment is $4k-plus per month, about half is paid out from our CPF. we pay only about $2k in cash.
we figure that even in the worst of worst situation, we can easily bail out by selling the condo since it’s in a good district.
ek888 Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 10:47 am
dont get too worry if u stay in condo and fall below the $16,311 average, it is juz an average income for people staying in condo which house price can be ranged from $500K to $5m, if your debt ratio is low then it is ok in my opinion.
Kevin Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 11:00 am
I think far below average means not being able to spend like your neighbours.
Kevin Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I also think if you poll HDB districts like Bukit Merah, Queenstown, Toa Payoh, Kallang, etc., you will see the majority of people between the 8k to 16k region.
My guess is that the profile between 8k and 16k region are those staying in 500-800k apartments, be it HDB or Condo.
They ought to break up by asset value rather than HDB and Private. It is an artificial separation that the government created. I also think they should segment the income categories until 15,000. The more than $10k is more than 20% of the households.
Also, you do not need a whole load of high income earners to tilt the data this way. To show an extreme case, try imagining someone earning 1 million a month and 9 earning 10,000. The average of this 10 would be 109,000.
debt ratio Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 11:14 am
ek888, the problem with debt ratio is that it doesn’t take into account many things, eg job security, interest rate rises and commitments like parental care & hospital bills. playing it safe, i did not include my wife’s income when i calculated our debt service ratio. it’s only when we’re absolutely convinced we’re living well within our capability did we buy our first condo.
not applicable to those born with silver spoons in their hands and mouths.
to not true Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 11:28 am
what if interest rate goes up? are you prepared for it?
Goodie Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Kevin made a good point–this is why typically median is more meaningful for this kind of studies.
Whoami Says:
December 7th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
The salary stated is gross or take back pay?
and does this include bonus?
gross Says:
December 8th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
should be gross pay.
who to ask? Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
may i know whether one can buy from hdb direct (like those bto projects) if the person has property overseas? income level can still make it below $8k for buying direct.
any advise most appreciated.
thanks.
cannot cannot Says:
December 19th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
if you say you have property overseas, you cannot buy HDB with grant
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 10:29 am
I have many friends making 20K+ and living in HDB. They also bought a condo and rent out for income.
My household income is 10K+ and i can’t qualify for HDB but do not have enough $ for condo. I am very bitter about this. I am almost 30, ready to get married and make babies for the nation. However, i have no home. I am not sure how long i have to wait. Contrary to many reports on singles find it hard to get hitched, it seems easier to get my Mr Right than afford a home for me.
I do not understand why the 8K cap on HDB is imposed on point of application. I suggest to have a set of hybrid conditions. Eg. If you are below 35, the condition does not apply. If you are above 35, the income cap conditon applies. Also if your household income exceed certain level, eg. 20K and above, you have 1 year’s notice to vacate your flat.
Can i check if there is a way to review the policy? Eg. To allow all Singaporeans below 35 years whom are trying to set up their homes a chance to own their flats (regardless of income)? Its like an entitlement of a Singaporean. And those who made it big (eg. earn 20K) will have to vacate their flats and make way for those whom need an affordable flat.
As my biological clock continues ticking, I seriously hope the the policy can be reviewed to help young Singaporeans with combined income more than 10K but less than 16K but with less than 100K of savings, to have ownership of an afforable HDB flat.
Meanwhile, setting up a home with children remains a dream for me, us,.. and the nation…
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Also, you do not need a whole load of high income earners to tilt the data this way. To show an extreme case, try imagining someone earning 1 million a month and 9 earning 10,000. The average of this 10 would be 109,000.
I agree with Kevin on the statistics part.
I think the MEDIAN figures should be released.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:00 am
I am aware that people with more than 8K can purchase re-sale flats.
However, resale market is pretty hot and may cost 2 times more. Eg, buy a 5 room from HDB at 300K, resales cost 600K.
$600K for a 20 year loan would means $30K a year, meaning $2,500 a month excluding interest.Assume after interest is factored in each month is about $3000. Divide by 2 means each person pays $1500.
If a couple with gross pay $5500 each, take home pay $4400. Based on my expenses that i have been tracking for 3 years below are some very real figure and I believe that i do NOT live an extravagent life style.
Food 500
Shopping and entertainment (1) 200
Basic necessity (2) 200
Transport 200
Tax 175
Gifts/ Treats (3) 200
Fees/ Course/ Gym (4) 100
Medication (5) 50
Insurance 500
Parents 500
————————————
TOTAL 2625
(round up to 2600)
————————————
(1) Shopping/ Entertainment is kept to the minimim and it includes things like movies, shopping for clothes, bags, shoes, small little gifts.
(2) Basic necessity includes things like soap, tissue paper, washing powder, contact lens solution, flooe cleaner, facial wash, shampoo, etc
(3) Gifts / Treats includes things like house warming gifts, baby shower, ang pow for people wedding, collegue kopi money etc
(4) Fees/ Course/ Gym are payments for exercise facilities or dance courses to maintain healthy life style.Or any courses that helps self improvement, eg. a 3 month business chinese course etc.
(5) Medicine includes money spent on vitamins, plaster, muscle rub. Although there is company benefit for GP and specialist, there is co-payment component.
For each person:-
Take home pay -4400
Personal expense -2600
Mortgage and interest -1500
—————————-
Left over $300 x 2 = $600
The LEFT OVER IS ONLY $600 for whole household. Should this $300 go to Utilities bill, town council fees, TV licence, etc ?
How about the baby?
No wander we cannot afford children…
Conclusion:
The resale value of HDB is 2x the price from HDB. But the salary if not 2x. We should review the cap and assist the group that seems rich (make more than 10K, less than 16K) but have only $600 left each month.
Kevin Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:01 am
10k < x < 16k: Why don't you buy a resale? There must be some strict rules you are not willing to sacrifice (e.g. location, non-resale).
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:03 am
Hi Not true,
I suffer the same fate as you. Can i check what happens when you sell the condo? Where will you be living?
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:11 am
>$600K for a 20 year loan would means $30K a year, meaning $2,500 a month excluding interest.Assume after interest is factored in each month is about $3000. Divide by 2 means each person pays $1500.
Don’t forget you can use CPF to pay the mortgage installments. If you don’t have luck with the balloting and can’t wait, go for a resale. In my opinion, your income level is more than sufficient for a resale HDB.
Kevin Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:11 am
I thought the rough thumb rule price from HDB is 60K below the current valuation price.
Assuming the sellers are greedy and ask for 50k cash , the difference between HDB and resale will only be 110K.
Unless the HDB you are eyeing less than 110K, the resale price will be less than 2x from HDB.
Maybe you are getting your data mixed up without considering time. For example, I know of two separate relatives who bought Duxton plains, one at 3xx k and another at 5xx k from HDB. If you take the resale at Duxton Plains (5 years down at today’s prices) for 600k, then you will come up with a 2X price against the 3xxk purchase made a couple of year backs, which while comparing apples to apples is not comparing them at the right time.
If you go outside the popular location, then the difference would be even less.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Hi Kevin,
I have thelessmia, hole in heart and MVP. I have faint and vomit in the crowded MRT twice a year. (Thanks to all the public that has helped me). Giving this situation, i cannot stay at a place too far out.
Anyway, even if i am willing to sacrifice to live far apart, since my parents are seperated, So i will have to live near pasir ris where my other half’s parents are. (Better to live nearer to someone in case of emergency, especially for children.) Is living pasir ris a big sacrifice already? The last time we asked about prices, we are quoted 600K.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Dear buy resale,
you mean even if you make more than 8K, you can buy resale from HDB and go for balloting?
I am a little confused. Please advise.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Dear Kevin,
i am not looking at Duxon, i am thinking of Kovan/ Hougang/ Buangkok area.
Kevin Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:16 am
On cutting back and basic necessities…
I know I can still cut, because my loaf of bread is twice the price and half the quantity of some of the breads other people buy when I queue up at the NTUC check out counter.
Kevin Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:25 am
I live in Pasir Ris, having shifted from Holland. I am starting to like Pasir Ris a little better than Holland. I thought I would be sacrificing in the past too when I moved.
Pasir Ris 4 rooms is still fairly affordable for your household income and spacious too! I live in one of those exec condos and the size of my exec condo is the size of Pasir Ris 4-room (~100 sqm). I have a family of four.
Can’t help to ask. What is MVP.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Dear Kevin,
i already chew on a loaf of bread for breakfast for 1 week. $2 per week for breakfast. My collegues all admire me for that.
As mentioned, since my parents are seperated, i have to survive 3 meals outside. $10 x 30days = 300 + 4 loaf of bread + occasional lunch at cafe with collegues and friends and share cost = $500
You do not think this is reasonable?
Unless you want me to cut down on social life and eat alone every day at food court? Tell people i don’t want to meet them for gathering at Swensons, new york new york, HK cafe, i only meet people in food court???
Even Mcdonalds more than $5 for a meal now a days. Can eat the $4.50 lunch promo only.
My bosses’ 16 year old daughter gets more pocket money than me. She was amazed and shocked that i survive on $10 a day already.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Dear Kevin,
MVP is mitral valve prolapse. Heart valve abnormality.
Sometimes i think i am like a “defactive good”. All my conditions are congentital… meaning presents from my parents. Sometimes i think they should not even give birth to me!
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:32 am
And to cut down on expenses, my the other half cycled to MRT… and got a fine from the Police !!!
Sigh… really desperate on saving money liao
If i can eat 1 loaf of bread for 2 days, i will…
But the expiry date is 1 week… i tried doing that once and found green mouldy things on the bread… i quickly throw away and washed my mouth…
Kevin Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Dear More than 10k…,
Don’t get me wrong on cutting back. I meant to say given your household income, you may think you are spending the minimum but there is always a way to cut back even more, without sacrificing the necessary nutrition and emotion/social well-being.
I don’t think I will cut back on my loaf of bread just yet! I go to restaraunts very ocassionally and my colleagues are past the age of eating in a nice place. I met an ex-colleague in a hawker center to catch up the other day.
Also comparing with your office colleagues is not a good representative sample. They are likely to cloud your impression that everybody is as rich as that in Singapore. I am relatively middle-ranking in my position in office but I know I am likely the poorest because even the admins have cars and rent out private properties.
Maybe my point is don’t be too frustrated, settle for less and be happy!
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Dear Kevin,
i don’t mind settling for less… the problem is no point me trying to save $1 or $2 here…
When the biggest issue is i am paying 600K for a resale flat. Is there a way out?
Can i resign and take go for a job with a pay cut of $1K, so my household income can be less than $8K and then i can buy a $300K HDB?
Is this the only solution?
I am not frustrasted… i am desperate…
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Sorry I didn’t think properly. You can’t go for balloting. But I’m puzzled why you feel poor when other families making less than you are ok. A household income of >$10k is already quite ok. I would advise you to just bite the bullet and go for the 600k flat if you like the location. Again, don’t forget you can use CPF for the mortgage installments, with a little cash top up. To lessen the monthly load, you can consider stretching the loan to 30 or even 35 years. Good luck.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Dear buy resale,
This is why i am poor…Although i have 10K+,after paying $600K for a flat (when people making $8K are paying $300K), the household is left with $600 for utlities, conservation fees, TV license, no travel, not even to batam and NO BABIES…
Recap:-
$600K for a 20 year loan would means $30K a year, meaning $2,500 a month excluding interest.Assume after interest is factored in each month is about $3000. Divide by 2 means each person pays $1500.
If a couple with gross pay $5500 each, take home pay $4400. Based on my expenses that i have been tracking for 3 years below are some very real figure and I believe that i do NOT live an extravagent life style.
Food 500
Shopping and entertainment (1) 200
Basic necessity (2) 200
Transport 200
Tax 175
Gifts/ Treats (3) 200
Fees/ Course/ Gym (4) 100
Medication (5) 50
Insurance 500
Parents 500
————————————
TOTAL 2625
(round up to 2600)
————————————
(1) Shopping/ Entertainment is kept to the minimim and it includes things like movies, shopping for clothes, bags, shoes, small little gifts.
(2) Basic necessity includes things like soap, tissue paper, washing powder, contact lens solution, flooe cleaner, facial wash, shampoo, etc
(3) Gifts / Treats includes things like house warming gifts, baby shower, ang pow for people wedding, collegue kopi money etc
(4) Fees/ Course/ Gym are payments for exercise facilities or dance courses to maintain healthy life style.Or any courses that helps self improvement, eg. a 3 month business chinese course etc.
(5) Medicine includes money spent on vitamins, plaster, muscle rub. Although there is company benefit for GP and specialist, there is co-payment component.
For each person:-
Take home pay -4400
Personal expense -2600
Mortgage and interest -1500
—————————-
Left over $300 x 2 = $600
The LEFT OVER IS ONLY $600 for whole household. Should this $300 go to Utilities bill, town council fees, TV licence, etc ?
How about the baby?
No wander we cannot afford children…
Conclusion:
The resale value of HDB is 2x the price from HDB. But the salary if not 2x. We should review the cap and assist the group that seems rich (make more than 10K, less than 16K) but have only $600 left each month.
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
>Divide by 2 means each person pays $1500
About $1k can come from your CPF Ordinary account, so it’s just about $500 cash from each take home pay. As a couple, you will have $2k cash for batam and babies.
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
further, your take home pay should be $4,600 because employee’s CPF contribution is calculated based on the cap of $4,500. 20% x $4,500 = $900.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
I hope my cpf can pay for it….
We wiped out cpf for investment due to the min $20K rule. Investment not making $ due to down turn. May be we are the ‘suay’ couple of the year..
So using max mthly contribution $4500*14.5%, some goes to medisave, sa, etc
I am left with $500++ from CPF?
May be batam… no babies…
and hopefully don fall sick… cos no insurance cover congenitial conditions =(
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
further again, I find $500 per person per month for insurance is a little high. That’s 12k per year as a couple. Perhaps after you buy the HPS insurance for your resale HDB, you can consider cutting down on insurance so you have more money for savings and babies.
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
To summarise my advice for you:
1. stretch loan to 35 years.
2. use as much of CPF ordinary as possible to pay for installments.
3. buy HPS and cut down on insurance.
This will at least give you a couple thousand dollars more per month.
or Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
or buy a smaller flat.
middleclass Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
buy resale: really depends on individual and their circumstances. My monthly insurance is about $1k because i’m at my prime working life and need protection for my family and young children in case of unforeseen events. Of course I also need to balance that with savings and investment portfolio.
more than 10k : not saying anything bad about your situation but it’s a sad commentary on our housing affordability when someone like you has problem getting a home.
I’m praying for you that it works out and you can setup a good family soon.
Just to share with you I also faced the same problem when I was younger.
I bought a resale flat and took on a huge loan since my salary was above the $8k cutoff way back during the last housing peak.
It’s in those out of prime areas and i’m below water.
Anyway i’m ok with it since i don’t have condo-envy and doesn’t like living close to town anyway.
I have not been to ION and doesn’t remember the last time i walk in Orchard road.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
I have been paying the insurance for past 5 years. You are not suggesting that i terminate one of the policies now and waste more hard earn money right?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
what are the conditions to stretch loan to 35 years?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
I hope all can recall that i have 3 major health conditions thus high insurance premiums…
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
seems like all agree with the 8K cap for HDB? do ur not think the policy shd be reviewed? May be to 12K and limit to aged below 35 and 5 rm and above?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
May be i shd just change jobs, get a pay cut of 1K and get a HDB…
problem solved?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
According to the Salary.sg Household Income Comparison Tool, the 80th-percentile household makes about $11,300/mth. Servicing a $3,705/mth loan is much more reasonable at this income level, as the debt service ratio is now a comfortable 33%.
I guess the 8K limit shd be reviewed to $11300?
middleclass Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
more than 10k: personally i wouldn’t downgrade myself unless there’s a logical reason for it.
Growing your income is better than cutting expense especially if you are having a good career.
That’s my personal opinion anyway.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Even if i scarifice my career for 2 years to go through the multiple balloting exercise, meaning get 24K less and i can save 300K, i think shd be worth it?
How long do i need to save or excel in my career to accumulate 300k?
middleclass Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
more than 10k: nothing is given with this economy and holding back your career 2 years may mean you can not catch up or lose all the opportunities.
I know nothing about your line so you need to think carefully about it yourself.
If either you or both you and your husband can double your salaries in a few years I believe 300k would be nothing to you then.
buy resale Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Many people have long called for a review of the 8k income ceiling, but HDB has not done anything about it. I’m guessing they’re afraid of even more demand for new flats. So it’s a moot point to ask for a review of the 8k limit.
>what are the conditions to stretch loan to 35 years?
You have to talk to a bank. At my time, most banks take 65 minus your age and loan you for that long.
Eg, if you’re 30 years old, they will be happy to loan you 35 years.
Have you also considered buying a smaller flat now and maybe upgrade in future?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
well, i dont think we can double income in a few years (we are not commission based pple, we are typical office work pple). We are quite stagnant and our incomes will probably grow at 4-5%, best case scenario…
It’s ok, thanks all for sympathy and advise…really appreciate all advise… i have talked to many people abt it… they initially reacted the same way as all of you asking me to cut this cut that. When they have a better understanding of my life and situation, they reaslise that i am doing what i can already and cannot help but sympathise with me. In fact all insurance agents and finance advisers are shocked how little i spend and how systematic i am tracking expenses.
I guess i just have to pray for increment or HDB to review the policy…(or get another boyfriend?)
And if none of these happens.i always have my 3rd and best choice…which is status quo(remain single)…
As long as i don’t get married or have babies, i am not into this ‘rat race’ (or resort to gambling in IR) and i will continue a debt free life…
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
U mean buy a OLD resale 3 room flat for 300K, while your friends earning 1 K less pay 300K for NEW HDB 4/5 room ?
Pay cut is better option…
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
“Many people have long called for a review of the 8k income ceiling, but HDB has not done anything about it. I’m guessing they’re afraid of even more demand for new flats. So it’s a moot point to ask for a review of the 8k limit.”
>>> I agree…that’s why i feel we should get those that make more than 20K to move out of HDB…
middleclass Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
more than 10k: forcing those that make more than 20k to move out of HDB would not be fair plus it wouldn’t resolve the issue?
that would only just burden them with overprice private housing and prop up housing prices across the board.
i think the govt needs to review their foreign import policy and their stellar affordable housing record.
that would be the better option.
i’m also waiting for pigs to fly.
Kevin Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
more than 10k: Your statistics are skewed and you missed the most important point. Is there a new HDB flat being offered that is half the price of the resale in the same location at the same time?
Also, why do you need a huge flat? I enquired about 4-room flats in Tampines recently and they are less than 400k, well within walking distance to Tampines central and very near good primary schools for kids.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
I have no problem living in a smaller flat.
It more of the reality that just because i make 1K more, i have to live in a smaller, old estate. While others with 1K less pay the same 3ooK for a bigger and new flat.
While a agree cheap flats are for pple making less, my friends making 20K lives in a HDB flat too…(just because when she got married her income was 8K and below..) Why is the check on pt of purchase only? Can we have a system to check on household income every 5, if not 10 years?
Life is not always fair, i know…
reality sucks and reality bites. I know…
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Dear Middleclass,
why is it not fair for pple making 20K to move out of HDB and fair for pple making abt 12K not to own new HDB?
Using the word “burden” on household making 20K instead od 12K?
middleclass Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
more than 10k: what i’m saying is that it’s unfair to burden anyone to take up excessive loans for overpriced properties that they do not want.
it’s definitely not fair to impose the $8k too.
two wrongs doesn’t make a right.
let’s focus on the real issue here – our highly paid govt doing a first rate bang up job of providing Singaporeans affordable housing.
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 7th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Yes Middle class, i agree, the issue here is affordable housing and where to draw the line 8k, 12k?…
yet not whether shd i stay in a ulu place or smaller place, new or resale flat…
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 11:24 am
I wld like to disclaim that Im NOT protecting the gahmen n I dun work for H co. I hear many ppl complaining abt “good” flats at affordable prices, frens & relatives. (But they jus dun action)
1) If everyone gets a good flat at affordable price n no one can complain abt their fren who earns lower income n got a gd flat at lower price… DEN most likely, it is NOT a free mkt. Den we will live in a commun**T society liao, cuz ur flat will be assigned to u. Wld u b happier when u know ur flat wont appreciate in future?
2) Is it realli possible for everyone to get their wish answered? Can everybody stay near town at the same time? There’s oni 1 Orchard. But the gahmen does try its best to create many mature estates. Why do u thk they build shoppg ctrs n town ctrs n aircon intchg?
3) Why gripe abt it when u did nt do ur research b4hand n buy ur flat earlier n study the ppty cycle? Yes, luck plays a part.
4) Yes u can complain that u started working at the wrong time. When u wan to make babies, ppty mkt went up oredi. Dats life. It happens every 10 yrs. I graduated in yr of SARS n almost cldnt find a job. Jus work harder. Stop comparing urself to ur fren who prolly bght her flat earlier cuz she took the plunge.
5) I agree they shd allow ppl who >8K but <16K to buy new flats, mb 5rm/execs.
simplelogic Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 11:56 am
if you are a better than average income earner and you can’t afford HDB, then something must be wrong.
it’s obviously a bubble. these flats, the way they are priced, are not meant for people to stay but for people to speculate.
will the bubble burst? it may take years. the US housing bubble grew for more than 5 years before finally bursting 1-2 years ago.
what can you do? not much. but surely you can buy a smaller flat at a less central location. or you can rent.
if you blame luck, then look at the people who bought at the 1997 peak. some are still under water. but they survived anyway.
middleclass Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
cheapo: since when do we have a free market? Who controls the land, allocation, construction and sets the prices?
I know I could be speaking from a privilege position but I for one would not hope that housing appreciate as it has.
Salaries will never be able to keep up so how would the future generations live?
Ever noticed that cheaper, better, faster applies to Singaporeans but never to anything else?
Do you smell the irony?
Lastly, again I’ll ask you to think about who’s policies caused these affordability problems?
Let’s not put the blame on Singaporeans again and again like what the propaganda machines do every time.
I think they love to tell everyone to shut up and sit down.
middleclass Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Also to further clarify I think the whole sell about housing being an asset is all bull crap.
Unless you own properties other than your primary ’99 yrs rental’ house you should never depend on it for retirement or investment.
The funny story about how the govt is preserving the value of your housing by artificial means goes against the free market mantra they talk so much about and yet only enriches certain pockets.
Why should the next generation pay for your mistakes if you bought an overpriced house?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Hi all, i think no matter wat, we need a cap on HDB. Anyone will be upset if millonares buy HDB and make $ out of it. Just that we need to justify the cap for HDB.
Other options for non-HDB is resale or pte. Then we need to monitor the prices of them and adjust the cap accordingly to ensure the alternative is affordable.
HDB prices their homes by pegging to private housing. I am questioning if the cap should also be pegged accordingly…
make sense?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Honestly, i do not think we should blame anyone for escalating housing prices. This is the situation everywhere. Cos land is always limited.
What we need here is to ensure affordabilty. We have Debt service ratio etc as guiding principal. Can we think of more creative and effective polices than just set a 8k cap and end of story?
Just like car situation. We have COE, ERP, etc to control the situation. And the COE prices changes according to market condition. Car is a luxury and not a necessity.
I just need a home i can afford. What are my priviledges as Singaporean? Paying tax is not a priviledge… and just because i make 1K more, i suffer the fate?
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Hi Simplelogic,
Totally agree.
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Hi middleclass,
Im nt an econs student so I will not make assumptns abt what I do nt know, like what constitutes a free mkt or nt. I only know our mkt px is demand vs supply. Yes, hdb direct prices do set a base. But hdb direct prices do move with the times. So it still depends on when u buy.
My point was actually to highlight there is no “fair” or not. Cuz its a free society vs communist society la. Geddit?
Btw I dun subscribe to conspiracy theory oso. My hub likes to watch X-files though. If u realli go into the theory, den gotta make everyone stand in a line n declare they vote for majority or minority every 4 yrs liao. Chances are those who subscribe to conspiracy theory r still in majority.
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Hi more than 10K,
Perhaps the gahmen can cap COVs. Cuz I look at my frens ard, their prob smetimes is the high COV even if they’re willing to stay in ulu towns n buy 300K flats. But then again, becuz we are in a “free” mkt, alot things happen under the table so even if gahmen say cap cov, will it realli work?
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Food for thought.
Which is the lesser evil?
The one who dun give u ur hdb house at a “reasonable & fair” price?
Or the pte ppty developer who buys a freehold land (999) and den builds condo n sells it as leasehold?
Or the pte ppty developer who developes 5 blks, releases it in stages so that they can control the supply and the price, ineveitably?
middleclass Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
cheapo: nope, i don’t really ‘geddit’.
You lost me with the conspiracy theory and free society vs communist society talk.
But since we are talking about affordable housing and you understand demand vs supply let’s try this again.
Demand: do you think that the govt policy of liberal immigration policy opening the floodgate to foreigners drive up priceing and overheat the housing market?
Supply: do you think the HDB deliberate policy of under supplying public housing in order to ‘preserve investment’ drive up pricing and overheat the housing market?
Limited land in Singapore?
How much land are used for building golf courses?
And if we are really dealing with limited land to build then for the public good why are we still selling off land to build more luxury private development?
simplelogic Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
there are huge plots of land in singapore, totally empty, some quite near mature estates, eg those near bedok reservoir along tampines ave 10.
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Hi middleclass,
Its ok, thanks. I oso dun realli “geddit” since my econs no gd. U realli sound like sme economist. Mb u shd b in civil scvs so hdb prices will come dwn n become affordable hsing.
Just to sidetrack, are there new land recently used for golfcourse dats near hdb? Wld like to noe cuz I stay hdb n im like further-est away frm town.
Actually I do not agree with ur dd & supply “theory” cuz Im not sure if our gahmen is actually smart enuff to do dat (hence the conspiracy theory). But im quite sure their headcount planning not done properly. I oso dun thk building mre luxury condos will curb the px nw, nt with our kinda island landsize la. Unless u build every single buildg like duxton.
Its all abt mkt sentiments. Or mb declare dunch build the 2 casino n den all the foreigner go hme, den u get alota housing suddenly. Though I dun thk sporeans will suddenly become happy oso.
I truly hope more than 10K can find her dreamflat. It takes time, adjustment of expectations, facing reality and action. In that order. But its achievable so hang in there
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Dear Cheapo,
Thank you so much… i am not even looking for a dream flat… i just need a roof over my head that wont make me eat bread for 3 meals…
Anyway, in free market no 8K limit one…
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Anyway i am seaching for a place at property guru now… all 500K+ leh
where got cheap property?
middleclass Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
cheapo: it’s obvious that you are operating on a much higher level than me.
have a good weekend.
simplelogic Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
> i just need a roof over my head that wont make me eat bread for 3 meals
you said it liao. so why not a 4-roomie in Jurong West? the resales there are all 200k-300k, with only a few outliers at 400k.
wait… i think you also mentioned you need to stay near your parents and also can’t bear to see your peers buying new at 300k while you fork out 600k.
as cheapo said, “It takes …, adjustment of expectations, facing reality and …”
Cheapo Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Hi Middleclass, it was nice chatting with u. Haf a great wkend too!
Hi Simplelogic & more than 10K,
Horrors I live in Jurong West lor!!! haha. Its not dat bad la. We got near golfcourse oso le. Jurong golfcourse.
More than 10K, if u ever decide to move to ulu place like jurong, we take mrt together ok? I oso hate the train la. SO i keep looking for 2nd hand car nw
Life goes on….
Cheers & gd weekend to all!!!
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
i don mind jurong, but in laws in east … so better stay near by..
simplelogic Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
4-roomies in bedok are all around 300k+, quite affordable in my opinion. have you considered?
More than 10K less than 16K Says:
January 8th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
yes looking… quite ex leh.. 400 +
Poor but surviving Says:
January 10th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Wifey and I make more than 8k a mth.
Cost of our 5 room hdb resale > 500k. Got it one year ago. Near CBD area.
Appealed and got HDB grant and loan. Down payment about 20%.
No need to use extra cash for loan, all CPF.
HDB Resident Says:
January 11th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Hi Poor but surviving, how do you appeal to HDB loan when your combined household income > $8k per month ?
not from HDB Says:
January 11th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Our pay is seriously too low in Singapore compared to the property prices. However, I do feel that our 8k ceiling is required to make it afforable for ppl who are in the lower income zone…..the fact is that there is a big income gap in our society right now…the govt has to address this….the 8k ceiling means not many ppl are eligible to buy direct from HDB…thereby benefitin the lower income ppl…..if the ceiling is raised to say 10K…it means more ppl are competin with the lower income range group for HDB…and i know there are ppl out there who are realluy in need of shelter……at least ppl in the middle income range can rent a room etc,..spent some $$..but ppl in the low income range (<SGD3000 etc) can't afford to spend afew hundred dollars to do that..that may mean no $$$ for children to go school…no money to eat etc…..it is really to smoothen out the social inequality in singapore now….the govt has 2 options….make it difficult for low income ppl or middle income ppl…the obvious choice is to help the low income ppl..and middle income ppl have to find a way to help themselves….plan early….search for lower priced resale flat etc…..they are in a better position to do so than the lower income ppl…govt knows abt the issue but there is really nothing much that we can do….property market is like any other market – it is market driven…..ppl are demandin so high COV etc because there is a demand….i don't think govt should try to intervene further…only thing is to protect the less privelged…less educated…less rich ppl…that's all…..is 8K a gd benchmark? I believe at this moment yes…..but may not be in 3 to 4 yrs time…..thanks for taking time to read my comments though….
Poor but surviving Says:
January 11th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
HDB Resident: Wrote to HDB to appeal.
middleclass Says:
January 11th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
not from HDB: agree on the runaway housing prices vs income. Just like to know what you think about the demand and supply problems. 1) What’s your opinion on the govt open immigration policy and does it affect the market demand? 2) Do you think HDB has been supplying the market with enough housing units looking at the past HDB ballot results? 3) Has the 8k limit done any good in controlling the housing prices so far?
HDB Resident Says:
January 12th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Hi Poor but surviving, was your case a border line one ? Or your combine far exceed the 8K ceiling ? I am keen to understand your case, see if your siutation similar to mine.
Btw, I am not a first time buyer. I wanted to get a new HDB flat but our household income exceed the 8K ceiling by a lot…
Poor but surviving Says:
January 12th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
HDB Resident : my case was closer to 9k. So i suppose it was a stronger case. Plus, my area is prime and my resale flat was over 500k, and near my folks.
No grant for new flats though…but HDB loan still applicable.
HDB Resident Says:
January 12th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
Hi Poor but surviving, thanks. Looks like my family can never be able to purchase any more new flat from HDB…..sigh.
Not from HDB Says:
January 13th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
Hi Middleclass, thanks for ur response. Here is my take….
1) What’s your opinion on the govt open immigration policy and does it affect the market demand?
I can tell u govt open immigration has definitely (either directly or indirectly) affected the property demand. Upfront (and very obviously), more ppl coming into Singapore means more ppl needing a place to stay – DD goes up.
Retrospectively speaking, it was quite easily during the early 2000s for immigrants to get in, get a job, settle down. Some of these immigrants are not exactly the ‘top talents’ that the govt wanted to attract. Many of them were from China, Malaysia, Phillipines etc.. are here to study, learn english, get a job etc….at that point in time, obviously the country was in real need of Human Resources. If you look at the country as a whole, singaporeans do not want to do the so called low class jobs – like waiters, customer services etc. All of us (i say that because honestly i am one of them as well) want to be an investment banker, a private banker, a mgm consultant with McKinsley, Bain & Co, Accenture etc, a lawyer, a doctor (a surgeon in fact), an auditor. We were looking at CFA, CPA, ACCA, MFE, the bar exam etc….to put in plainly, local SIngaporeans have higher expectations. However, we still need ppl to sweep the floor, clear the food court, serve in some kaya toast cafe. Can’t ask the ministers to do it themselves right….no choice…relax the policies and get some of these ppl to come in to cope…Having said that, it is extremely difficult for someone to come in and get a PR ( or an employment pass) NOWADAYS unless u are a skillted “executive” who contribute in a certain way or u are very very rich – think jet li, gong li, some indonesian bosses whom i shall not name etc…
The lower skilled ppl come in..they live in HDB flats – they turned PR/citizen etc, they bid for HDB flats. They get their families here – they bid for HDB flats. People rent out to them, people sell to them. The market becomes “liquid” – lots of selling lots of buying – property agents come in – drive up the prices to get commission (property agents are like market makers in the financial market context, aren’t they?).
Skilled workers (the expats etc) come in – they go to condos, private properties….px goes up again…A typical house in said Kovan that cost SGD400k 20 yrs ago cost SGD2.5mio etc…not alot of ppl can afford condos and private houses – they move to HDB. the middle class ppl obviously can’t get direct from HDB so they go to resale mkt, they want a decent place – 4/5/executive etc….market goes up again….
I do feel that as a whole, to be honest, singaporeans are underpaid if u look at our property market as a whole. It is ok if u get the necessity side – pretty afforable. But once u decide that u need a house, then u will begin to realise that it is getting abit out of hand….it makes ur (previously known) decent pay seem quite low.
2) Do you think HDB has been supplying the market with enough housing units looking at the past HDB ballot results?
If you INCLUDE those in the pipelin, yes. The only thing is most of the ppl want their flat immediately….if u take away those in the pipeline, there is a lack of HDB. I think as much as HDB wants to deny, they cannot disguise the fact that they didn’t get their prediction right – how can i tell? The market won’t lie. Anyone that is statisically inclined can tell u – the property market is too hot at the moment. Probably too hot for its own good. The govt is trying to solve this by actively pushing out BTOs, that is the only “natural” intervention which they are “allowed” to do right. Then again, from the pt of view of policy makers, it is very difficult to predict the market dd. Almost impossible to hit the >90% confidence interval. So I don’t blame them.
3) Has the 8k limit done any good in controlling the housing prices so far?
It used to be gd. It is hanging on right now. It won’t be sufficient in the future if the ENTIRE economy moves in a state that is consistent with we have came to know. The thing is we, like any developed countries, are beginning to see a distinctive income disparity caused by influx of rich/skilled individuals. Unless we can get the lower class to increase their salary w.r.t to the overall movement of salary inflation, there is no way any sane govt will allow the 8K figure to go up – simply because it is dangerous politically (i hope u know what i meant).
middleclass Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Not from HDB : excellent well thought and well written. More than less we agree on the reasons why we have the demand and supply problems. Where we differ is where you consider them unavoidable or impossible to manage I consider them to be sheer negligence or incompetence on the policy makers. To say something is in the pipeline is as good an excuse as saying that the cheque is in the mail. If they cannot deliver the goods now what would convince me that they can deliver the goods next time?
On your last point of setting the 8k limit but instead helping the lower spectrum earners to increase their salaries isn’t it a moot point since the govt is doing it’s best to depress wages by wanton import of cheap foreign labours?
adiemuso Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
middleclass,
do note that when the Govt recently imposed some foreign labour restrictions and regualtions, it is the same group of Singaporean business owners who complained about rising labour costs.
it is undeniably a curse of the developed economies, a paradox of higher growth but higher income disparity. so far I have yet to see anyone solving this conundrum convincingly.
If you think Gini coefficients are good indicator, i.e Japan & Scandinavian have low Gini, then its worth lookin at their overall GDP growth and their recent economic woes. And if you were to compare rising stars like China, India, Singapore, then you might be envious of their GDP growths.
So as a policy maker, not an observer, what would be your choice for Singapore as a whole? Remember we have no resources, except human resources and foreign investments. And note too, that our local population is way below replacement ratios and note that the sad but true fact that only 25-30% of population are degree holders.
Its a tough choice. But i think u n I benefited from the macro policies. so its not fair to lambast our government.
And, you could do something for the lower income. Open a business and ensure that u hire strictly only poor lower income Singaporeans. Or sponsor a few child from the lower income groups. Thats not very difficult to do.
adiemuso Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
however, i do agree with you on the shortcomings of our authorities with regard to the housing policies.
it is undeniable that the housing prices are becoming unaffordable for many young couples. esp those from the lower income groups, however, they have to chose to move away from the preferred areas. its tough but its still doable.
ask those generations from the attap to hdbs, its pretty similar too. but overall macro progress alleviated some of these initial problems.
like you, i really hope our Singaporeans get good wage improvements as well. but that will come at a price, read higher taxes n costs of living.
middleclass Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
adiemuso: are you serious? Just because we are lucky to come up better because of the whacked out policies means that we don’t need to consider the state of the less fortunate Singaporeans?
I find your answer that this is the way things are and there’s nothing we can do about it pretty closed minded.
Tell you what, when i get a million dollar salary and a ministry under my bidding i’ll get back to you on what i can do – probably after i take a month off to France to have some cooking class to refresh my creativity.
observer Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
there are 3 classes of foreigners in my opinion: (1) the low-wage workers that adiemuso says businesses depend on, (2) middle-class workers and (3) the truly talented foreign talent.
group (1) stays in rented housing and dormitories, and group (3) stays in big private apartments and houses. both (1) and (3) do jobs that singaporeans can’t do. no quarrels with that.
HOWEVER, the problem lies with group (2). it is perceived that this group takes away many jobs that singaporeans can and are willing to do.
for the same asking salary (gross), an employer will prefer a PR or foreigner. this is because the employer CPF contribution is lower for PRs.
citizens are disadvantaged in this aspect – to compete with a PR or foreigner, a citizen would have to ask for a lower pay. hence wages are depressed because of PRs and foreigners.
further, these mid-level PR workers also compete directly with citizens for HDB resale flats, pushing up the prices, and for primary school places.
back to group (1) – it is also perceived that there are many such low-skilled workers have successfully become PRs, and some even citizens. WHY? why give so many benefits to these non-talents?
Kevin Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
One conspiracy theory I enjoyed a lot is the easy money flowing from China that is making its way to Singapore shore. With Hong Kong imposing curbs, there isn’t really much place with relatively free-enough economy for people to invest.
So if Singapore government does not impose curbs, once the easy money supply dries up, the property prices will go down. I think increasing incoming migration alone without bringing along money will not drive the property market up.
But according to government statistics, most of the buyers are local so the theory does not hold water there. The other argument that I have for this is that these foreigners buy at highs, and locals follow herd instinct. There is also some evidence (in papers) to suggest that Singaporeans have enough earning power to sustain the current prices. So even if the easy credit goes away, the price would not collapse.
On Singaporeans being underpaid, it is only when we are comparing with housing cost. If you compare based on quality of goods/services delivered, I must say we are more tilted towards the overpaid side.
On housing demand and supply. The problem is that houses/flats need construction time and it is nearly impossible to match the pipeline against the current demands because of herd instincts, particularly so in Singapore. I myself queue up naturally in hawker food stalls with a long queue. Half the time, the food is fairly good but not fantastic an the reason for the long queue is the long preparation time.
adiemuso Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
middleclass,
“I find your answer that this is the way things are and there’s nothing we can do about it pretty closed minded.”
i did suggest how we could help to alleviate things. that is for folks like u, who are in the middleclass to contribute to the lower income. sponsor a child or two. guess u noe about the Mediacorp’s production “Life Transformers 2″, I believe given your utmost altruistic generous social serving mentality, you would have called up Mediacorp and donated a few hundred bucks to the needy families?
if u can convince me that you walk your talk, i will give u my two thumbs up.
middleclass Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
adiemuso: your suggestion has nothing to do with the discussion we are having about housing issues Singaporeans are facing. Plus i don’t really need to convince you or your 2 thumbs up or down.
adiemuso Says:
January 14th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
middleclass,
im dumbfounded by your reply.
it is totally untrue to deny that my suggestion has no bearings on our discussions on housing. sometimes we tend to overlook and underestimate things to be small n irrelevant.
Anonymous Says:
January 27th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
I think alot of people have FORGOTTEN what happened back in 2004. The property agents were screaming for help, sales were drying up, nobody was interested in property. Why? Because everybody HAD a house and things weren’t looking too bright.
Next came LKY…with the introduction of increase in population via immigration. BOOM!…foreigners came in, in huge numbers, demand for property flew…buy buy buy….people started flipping properties. IR potential, talk talk talk…take take take.
Now…another plateau…immigration policies changing to tightening mode (no more coming in), world economy in crisis…IR crawling. If people cannot see what’s going to happen next, then there’s really no medicine to help them.
The property market is going to dive. Just watch the next 365 days. Those who bought houses through bank loans (especially private houses) last year are going to scream in pain.
.
agree Says:
January 27th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
to Anonymous: well said. couldn’t agree more. but things are too unpredictable nowadays, so let’s wait 365 days and see.
Amazed Says:
January 28th, 2010 at 6:58 am
Anonymous, there is no point saying all that, because if anything people have a short term memory and they always think that they are special.
Kevin Says:
January 28th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
I think the government will do their best to ensure the property market will stay at this present level because election is around the corner. Singapore, like a lot of Asian markets, operates on what a layman like me will call “controlled” free economy, e.g., things can move independently but there are sufficient controls against significant movements.
The tightening of immigration policies also signals a coming election to “appease” unhappy local citizens. Over the long run, with birth rates declining, I cannot imagine Singapore tightening immigration policy if we like to continue growing. I am also not very convinced of productivity improvements. As we move more into services, there is only so much transactional productivity we can strive for without hurting client relationships. And for quantum leap successes like Ipod or Wii, Singapore does not quite have the talent pool to come up with insanely great ideas.
hdb desperate Says:
April 12th, 2010 at 12:03 am
Hi Poor but surviving,can you tell me how u write the appeal letter to get the flat when yr income exceeded 8k… i am in similar case too.. did u all ballot online or just write in directly??
Poor but surviving Says:
April 12th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
hdb despearate : just write an appeal letter to hdb stating your case and reasons why u “deserve” the grant/loan.
do u n ur partner exceed 8k by a fair bit?
hdb desperate Says:
April 15th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Poor but surviving …
abt 600 =/ low chance?
Poor but surviving Says:
April 16th, 2010 at 12:11 am
hdb desperate: 600 is worth a shot!
how old r u guys?
LowIncomeWorker Says:
April 27th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Hi,
I am earning 1500 a month, and my husband earning 1700 a month. We have 2 children. We are O’level educated and low income workers and living in 3 room flat. We do not have to resort eating bread daily, we do bring our children for outings weekly, we have insurances but we barely have savings. With people of 8k salary wanting to buy HDB flats, i worry that it may push HDB flats further. What will happen to people like me then?
LowIncomeWorker Says:
April 27th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
People with 8k salary can offer a better price than people like me whose combined income with hubby is only 3.2k . This will surely push resale flat even further. Im really very curious and sometimes it makes me laugh. How can a single person earning 8k per month cannot buy a 600k private housing? Please spare a thought for lower income people like me. We are poorly educated due to family financial circumstances, thus we have low salary. Please do not fight with us for subsidised flats.
HeapAlgo Says:
April 27th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
LowIncomeWorker :
I appreciate your attitude . As your PM mentioned in one of his speeches, do ur best for ur children. Make sure they can succeed and do well. As far as house goes, good luck. It will be hard but i hope u can manage
chnrxn Says:
August 11th, 2010 at 10:36 am
@More than 10K less than 16K:
There are a couple of points I feel you have missed and no one seems to have caught.
If you are making more than 10K as a couple, assuming each makes >4.5k, you will each get $1035 into your CPF-OA every month.
Total contribution per month is $900 (employee) + $653 (employer). $1035 goes into OA, the rest goes into SA/Medisave.
Login to your CPF and look at your monthly contributions.
Another point, 4-room flats in Bedok are still mostly transacting at around $400k, with the flats built in 2005/2006 fetching nearer to $500k. Remember you can only take 80% loan, so even a $500k flat means a loan of $400k, spread over 30 years at 3.75%, means $1848/mth.
Combined, you will have $2070/mth to pay your installment. You are definitely able to pay the installments using CPF alone, without cutting into your disposable income.
You can check HDB resale transaction prices here:
http://services2.hdb.gov.sg/webapp/...
No HDB? Says:
September 30th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Hi HDB Desperate,
I am in the same case with u!! Overshot by 675
did u appeal and gotten ur flat?
I am intending to appeal but not sure how to… went to see EC but need a whopping 60k incl of stamp duty… its out of my reach…
Poor but surviving Says:
September 30th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
No HDB : It varies from case to case; just write in to HDB to appeal!
No HDB? Says:
September 30th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Poor bt Surviving: Just wrote to them ytd and got a bloody templated motherhood reply today.. not helping at all. Guess I have to make appointment with MP… but then again, read alot of negatives feedback on MP channel too
increase their pay Says:
October 1st, 2010 at 6:30 pm
maybe they are not paid enough. we should pay them more so they can be better and faster.
ngeeky Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 10:59 am
hi, can have a revised article base on 2011 context ?
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pleaseFML Says:
March 18th, 2012 at 12:55 am
Hi, I’m earning $2.5k/mth averagely (more percentage of commission). With bonus etc will $3.5k/mth. Mom’s income as 6days/wk part-timer averagely $1.2k. Does anyone know how HDB calculate loans according to commission-based/ part-time jobs?? Cause I’m only granted to a 55% loan of my flat’s value. Tried appealling twice but failed, saying our salaries fluctuate. If that’s the case, why does the additional grant for low income citizens is granted as of earning more than 4k? Does that mean that property agents or insurance agents can only loan from banks or fork out full cash to buy flats? Please enlighten me… Thank you.
sameer Says:
April 2nd, 2012 at 8:51 am
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jolyn Says:
April 24th, 2012 at 8:35 am
hi,
my sal is around 8k/month i have managed to save 80k
i would be applying for hdb first time . want to buy executive hdb . how much more cash will i need to arrange and can i apply for personal loan as well.and what is the income ceiling limit. how much will my emi be if i buy property of 650k.
i am a little confused s i thought interest is around 1.089% but some one here has mentioned 3.75%..