Doctors’ pay

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446 Responses to “Doctors’ pay”

1. 
   Income of GP Doctors | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore Says:
   December 15th, 2007 at 11:59 am

   [...] to be a doctor, work hard and aim to be specialists who can earn much much more than GPs (see my post on doctors’ [...]

2. 
   neuro Says:
   February 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pm

   what does 75th percentile income mean??

3. 
   admin Says:
   February 3rd, 2008 at 9:44 am

   neuro, it means your pay is higher than 75% of the surveyed population.

4. 
   lin Says:
   March 3rd, 2008 at 4:26 pm

   I’d like to ask…Do polytechnic graduates have a higher chance of becoming a specialist if the carry on to uni?

5. 
   admin Says:
   March 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 pm

   lin, I’m not sure if poly grads can get into NUS med. But let’s assume some of them can. Do they have a higher chance? I’d say no. What they have is a fair chance like everybody else.

6. 
   lin Says:
   March 4th, 2008 at 7:51 am

   Um…Are there other options for fresh poly biomed graduates?i.e.med sch overseas…if there is can you give examples of med school that accepts poly grads

7. 
   shah Says:
   March 19th, 2008 at 1:21 am

   hi there..can you please tell me how much is salary of Medical registrar in singapore hospitals??thanks

8. 
   admin Says:
   March 19th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

   shah, I’m not sure about that. Maybe $8k basic?

9. 
   claudia Says:
   March 27th, 2008 at 9:14 pm

   What is the estimated monthly salary for a average JC teacher and a uni lecturer?

10. 
    visitor Says:
    May 6th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    dr ng is obviously spouting nonsense, 5 times the pay? so doctors earn millions a year?

11. 
    Dude Says:
    August 3rd, 2008 at 2:08 am

    Shah, registrars get pretty crap pay. NHG quoted me something like $8,000 for an associate consultant. Apparently though the pay rises quite rapidly when you become a consultant then senior consultant, although I suppose by then you can go to the dark side and do private practice.

    Admin, in your post, you mention that GPs get $14,000. The table actually says “General Physician” which has a different implication to “General Practitioner” to people in the medical field. Can you clarify which it actually is? I’m wondering if I should bother coming back to Singapore to work.

12. 
    doraman Says:
    August 12th, 2008 at 7:12 am

    good day.can anyone enlighten me on how much a Medical Officer can expect to get for basic salary and after allowance?

13. 
    tanya Says:
    August 14th, 2008 at 8:15 am

    MO starting pay fresh after housemanship is around 3500, when i first started. each yearly pay raise dependent on performance, maybe 100 to 300.

14. 
    Ara Says:
    August 27th, 2008 at 2:02 am

    hey.. can anyone tell me the basic salary for medical technologist in singapore, with just a diploma?

15. 
    ghostrecon Says:
    December 9th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    you said (it is not uncommon for a locum to get up to $700 per day.)

    sorry dude ,, only 4 locums per months are allowed

    hahahah

16. 
    observer Says:
    December 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    A specialist doctor getting 5000 SGD a month is good, medium or bad pay?

17. 
    Anonymous Says:
    December 13th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Frankly I think $60k p.a. is bad pay, at least for the level of skill (not to mention the risk too) expected from doctors. It doesn’t make sense to me that you can hire 5 specialists for the price of 1 investment banker, when doctors are supposed to save lives (and IB’ers only make ours more miserable). Seriously, the world is screwed up.

18. 
    observer Says:
    December 14th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Thanks anonymous. How much does a medical suprintendent or director of a hospital get in govt / pvt hospital or healthcare facility? what is the tax rate at $60 K pa?

19. 
    observer Says:
    December 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    1. What is the average salary for a doctor with a diploma in hospital management in a hospital/healthcare facility in Singapore?

    2. Are there any openings for Aviation Medical Examiner? If so, what salary range can be expected?

20. 
    pali Says:
    January 11th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    I am a specialist Psychiatrists from UK. I have also completed Higher specialist training here in UK. My current salary in terms of pounds is somehwere around £70K per annum ( Take home £4000 a month). I was about to apply for a Consultant Job In singapore and there were asking me how much salary do I expect. Can somebody guide me please

21. 
    dorachan Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    pali pls contact me at uwy1@hotmail.com to discuss in details.

22. 
    Michael Says:
    February 10th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Hi, for a qualified Gynae, having completed specialisation and 4 years of post specialisation experience in Philippines, what is the average pay expected ? I am trying find a job for my Fiance’ here.

23. 
    mathew k Says:
    February 23rd, 2009 at 3:04 am

    I am a general physician(doctor) with english degree is interested to work as registrar in medicine . with 20 years experiance. what will the salary I get. living expence. accomodation cost ect?

24. 
    michelle lee Says:
    May 6th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Can you please tell me how much a Consultant Physician would expect to be paid at NUS (before tax). Does it make a difference if one has a PhD? Many thanks!

25. 
    medical administrator Says:
    May 8th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    MO earn $3500-5000
    Reg $5000-7000
    Associate Consultant $7000-9000
    Consultatant $9000 up

    So it depends on how many years experience you have.
    Generally doctors are very well paid in Singapore and so do consider the move to Singapore.
    We also have one of the lowest personal income tax rates in the world.

26. 
    Michael Says:
    May 8th, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Dear Medical Administrator,

    thanks for the reply.

    I was just wondering what is the expected salary scale, for a OB-GYNEA ? And what is the current demand for such specialist ?

    I am trying to ease my fiance’s transition here.

    Thanks a lot, and appreciate your earlier posting as well.

    Cheers

27. 
    medical administrator Says:
    May 8th, 2009 at 11:49 am

    Demand not very great for ob-gyn but she can apply thru mohh, singhealth or nhg.

    link

28. 
    Michael Says:
    May 8th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Thanks a lot, MA.

    I will follow up on that, I was looking at the Virgen Milagrosa University of Philippines, and it seems not in the list. Similarly, there are no listed universities of Philippines in the List.

    I will anyway, expedite directly and see.

    Greatly Appreciate your assistance and advice.

    Thanks, and Cheers

29. 
    roger Says:
    May 31st, 2009 at 11:40 am

    dear all
    can i find out what is expected salary for Orthopaedics registrar / assoc con / consultant in the restructured hospitals?
    does it depend more on the operations performed?
    thanks for all the help

30. 
    Civil Servant Says:
    June 1st, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Orthopedics pay a lot of money.
    Reg get 6k+
    A/c 8k+
    Consultant 10k+

    For A/C and Con, the more surgery u do, the more u get paid. That’s why long waiting list to specialise in Orthopedics.

31. 
    roger Says:
    June 1st, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    @civil servant: thanks alot for the info. was initially under the impression that majority of their pay is based on surgeries. cheers!

32. 
    Praveen Says:
    June 2nd, 2009 at 4:39 am

    Sir,
    I was wondering how much experience do u require before working as Consultant in Anaesthesia? I have 6 years experience in Anaesthesia out of which 4 years is in Ireland in top hospitals

    Thanks,
    Praveen

33. 
    Civil Servant Says:
    June 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    For an applicant who wishes to practise as a specialist in Singapore, he must first obtain specialist accreditation from the Specialists Accreditation Board (SAB). The application form for specialist accreditation may be downloaded from the website: http://www.hpp.moh.gov.sg/SAB/SAB_Home.html.

    Upon obtaining a Specialist Accreditation certificate from the SAB, the doctor is required to register his name in the Register of Specialists with the Singapore Medical Council before he is allowed to practise as a specialist in his field of specialty. The application form for specialist registration may be downloaded from the website under ‘Download Forms’. A one-time fee of SGD$500 is applicable for specialist registration.

    Doctors applying for specialist registration must register at least 1 registrable postgraduate qualification into the Register for Medical Practitioners. Please refer to FAQs on Medical Registration for details on the procedure for application for registration of registrable post-graduate qualifications.

34. 
    dr.dharamvir Says:
    June 4th, 2009 at 2:34 am

    what will be the pay scale for an mbbs doctor with 7yrs exp in singapore general hospital adn will i get a housing allowance

35. 
    hospadmin Says:
    June 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Well MO can get 3.5k to 6k so if u no post grad qualification, then should be around there.
    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/career.html

36. 
    salmonela Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 1:13 am

    Hi,

    I am medical officer with 6 years of working experience both in hospital and district clinic setting and now working in an private hospital in Malaysia and with undergrade degree recognized by Singapore gov.

    I have part 1 FRCR in clinical oncology (UK) and now preparing for my final fellowship exam. I will obtain my MBA degree next year and will consider to work in Singapore for further training.

    can someone guide me

    1. I will work as registrar or M.O. in Singapore?
    2. Does MBA give me any advantage in term of job position and salary?

    Thank so much in advance.

    salmonela

37. 
    sg doc Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 8:36 am

    First, what is your current pay in ringgit?

38. 
    hosp admin Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Hi we thank you for your interest in considering a career in Singapore. As you may have found out by now, Singapore believes in meritocracy and will treat all doctors equally (whether they are locally trained or not)

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/career.html

    1. Registrar
    Registrars are experienced doctors with a recognised postgraduate qualification who have completed the Basic Specialist Training (BST). They are primarily responsible for the overall supervision and day-to-day running of the wards, including patient care. In addition, they will supervise and guide House Officers and Medical Officers.

    There are 2 types of Registrars namely Advanced Specialist Training (AST) Registrar and Service Registrar.

    AST Registrars are doctors who have completed BST and have been appointed by the Joint Committee for Specialist Training (JCST) as Advanced Specialist Trainee to undergo advanced specialist training in one of the 35 advanced specialties.

    Service Registrars are doctors who have completed BST who possess a postgraduate degree recognised by the JCST for Advanced Specialist Training, but have been unsuccessful in their AST application or are waiting for a confirmed AST post. These doctors will have to be assessed to be ready and competent to perform the duties & responsibilities of a Registrar before being appointed as Service Registrar.

    Eligibility Criteria To be eligible for the Registrar position, applicants must satisfy the following conditions:

    must possess a postgraduate medical degree that is recognised by JCST for entry into Advanced Specialist Training
    must be granted medical registration by the Singapore Medical Council (SMC)
    must be granted an Employment Pass to work in Singapore (applicable to non-Singaporean/ non- Singapore PR)
    must possess the relevant years of experience (retrospective recognition of training received overseas on a case-by-case basis)

    So if you fulfill this, you will be appointed a registrar.

    Interested applicants can send their applications to:

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : recruit@mohh.com.sg

    2. MBA may help you in your career advancement if you decide to switch into hospital administration like me.

    Regards

39. 
    rams Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    hi i am a house officer in madras medical college, india. i want to know about the opportunities and salaries in singapore for a doctor freshly graduated from india, and other eligibility requirements. can anyone guide me please.. thank you

40. 
    hosp admin Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html

    Hi you can check whether your school in India is recognised or not.

    1. All-India Institute of Medical Sciences
    2. Christian Medical College, Vellore
    3. Armed Forces Medical College, Maharashtra University of Health Sciences
    4. Maulana Azad Medical College, Delhi University
    5. Jawaharlal Institute of Postgraduate Medical Education & Research, Pondicherry University
    6. Lady Hardinge Medical College (New Delhi), University of Delhi
    7. Grant Medical College (Mumbai), Maharashtra University of Health Sciences
    8. St. John’s Medical College (Bangalore), Rajiv Gandhi University of Health Sciences
    9. Madras Medical College (Chennai), Tamil Nadu Dr.M.G.R. Medical University

    HO pay 2600
    MO pay 3500
    Reg pay 6000

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/career.html

41. 
    salmonela Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    Dear all,

    Thank Hosp Admin and Sig doc

    I am earning RM 6-7k per month

    I am still confuse whether i am able to work as AST registrar in Singapore or not with my current qualification in the field of radiation oncology??

    Do i need to write in or submit my resume to MOH (S) for them to evaluate first???

    The salary offered still important consideration for me. I am expected to have sponsorship from local hospital for my final fellowship exam with short term attachment in UK and good remunaration when i come back to Malaysia. However, Singapore would offer me with good training and hand on experience.

    The MBA is for my future use, not interested to be hospital admin. I don’t think MOH will take this into consideration in term of the salary they are going to offer. Will they??

    Hope somebody can guide me..

    Thank and warmest regard

    salmonela

42. 
    sg doc Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    Do not confuse MOHH with MOH. MOHH is a commercial entity that supposedly serves as an agent. I suggest you write in directly to a restructured hospital of your choice. They do hire quite a fair number of foreign doctors. If you go through an agent, ask exactly what they do and their rates. If I were you, I prefer to be in full control.

43. 
    Michael Says:
    July 9th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Hi Sg Doc

    I was getting the impression that MOHH Holdings is the holdings company for the two hospital clusters, Singhealth and National Healthcare group, and not per-se a Recruiting agency.

    Maybe somebody can clarify.

    My fiance is hoping to get here in September, and with her Gynae specialisation, any advice would be helpful

    Thanks

44. 
    sg doc Says:
    July 10th, 2009 at 8:17 am

    Sorry, I have been out of touch. After reading it’s website’s About page, I agree MOHH is indeed a holding company with major national objectives and not a recruitment agency as I had claimed. Still, there’s no harm writing in to a hospital of your choice, whether it be a private one or a government-linked one, unless you are very sure MOHH’s list of healthcare groups (incl the polyclinics) are sufficient for you.

45. 
    Salmonela Says:
    July 10th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Thank Hosp Admin, I think i got the answer already after went through the Academic and Medicine website.

    Thank again

    Salmonela

46. 
    Michael Says:
    July 10th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    noted sg doc.

    I intend to get her to personally apply, once she is here. I was advised to go to Government hospitals, as the government hospitals generally speed up the SMC approval process.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers

    Michael

47. 
    AK Says:
    July 10th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Hi
    What is the current pay scale for Registrars in Singapore? since I have 2 years post membership experience, would I be able to demand year 2 registrar or year 3 position from my employer?
    AK

48. 
    AK2 Says:
    July 10th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    hosp admin posted above the following:
    HO pay 2600
    MO pay 3500
    Reg pay 6000

    I suppose Registrar doctors earn around S$70-80k per annum. Isn’t this low compared to other industries?

    Can I say that non-specialist doctors can only earn a max of about $100k, while the sky’s the limit for specialists?

49. 
    salmonela Says:
    July 11th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Hi dear all,

    My friend’s husband just come back from singapore, he used to work as registrar there for few months. His salary is above SGD 7500… Anyone can verify this??

    Salmonela

50. 
    AK Says:
    July 11th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Thanks AK2/hosp admin

51. 
    hosp admin Says:
    July 13th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Well $6000 is basic starting pay. Those who completed NS will get more.

    There is still bonuses and night call allowance.
    Night call is $240 per weekday and $340 for weekends.

    So reaching 7500 is no problem as some disciplines have more than 5 calls a month.

52. 
    samulla Says:
    July 17th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    hi ..can i know if i can get a job in singapore,,,i m postgraduate diploma in aneasthesiology with 2yrs experience….i woul like to know wat wiill be salary &the post &the procedure to apply…
    thanks

53. 
    anaesthesia mo Says:
    July 19th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    how much does an anaesthesia registrar earn monthly? consultant level? as compared to a family physician?

54. 
    MO Says:
    July 19th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    ENT salary?

55. 
    bt Says:
    July 19th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    ENT in private practice must be earning millions. Business Times 2 weeks ago featured the HUGE house of one ENT surgeon. It’s really HUGE.

56. 
    ENT millionaire Says:
    July 20th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Yup
    ENT can earn a lot but difficult to get in and must co pay for training.
    Average pay for specialised surgeon can reach 20k a month.

57. 
    bobby Says:
    July 20th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    only 20k? Thats what a telemarketer makes! Haha… 200k would be nicer… Matches the pay of a riskless minister…

58. 
    Hebron Says:
    July 27th, 2009 at 4:40 am

    Hi,

    How does one progress from Associate consultant post to Consultant post? Is there a time duration or any exit exams to clear?

59. 
    Hakka Says:
    August 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    Thanks for the info all.

    Practised in Singapore for a few years, on cusp of final examinations for AST entry. I confirm salary scale for NSmen is in range of S$5K-6K. AST pay is fairly consistent across specialities at S8K or so including allowances and academic/research flexi bonus. Understood in Radiology and Ortho surgery, Associate Consultant pay averaged S$10-12K including reasonable added for surgeries/procedures etc.

    For the tax rate and compared to other professions, S’pore doctors make good money. Averaged out vs. other occupations in other countries, S’pore doctors are doing pretty good. Exceptions would be the US and possibly UK where their payscale is significantly higher. But much much better than India, Continental Europe etc. I hear from friends.

    Bobby, if you want to make money, go into front office banking. My friend has 3 years experience in proprietary trading and makes over a million a year. And even then, he is in a company that doesn’t pay that well compared to private hedge funds and investment banks. I left medicine to go to London for a banking job and work about 50-60 hours a week monday-friday only and AFTER tax, make equal to S$22,000/- per month with only 2 years of banking experience. I won’t have as long a career as I would in medicine and will likely get retrenched or burned out within 10 years or so but my salary is starter pay and with 5 years experience, I will hit at least S$500K without the long hours and stress of medicine. And learning the ropes, I can then invest this money wisely. At the end, I think my friends who stayed in medicine will make just as much as me by retirement but I will get to retire earlier

60. 
    to hakka Says:
    August 11th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    @hakka:
    wow that’s great info, thanks for sharing!
    it’s posts like this with definite firm figures that can help people make choices about future careers.
    cheers

61. 
    math k Says:
    August 12th, 2009 at 4:59 am

    what will be the tax if one get 7000 sg$ per month

62. 
    . Says:
    August 12th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    tax is around 5k.

    but u need to put in your reliefs.

    use this website:
    http://www.iras.gov.sg/Tax%20Calculators/IIT/IIT.html

63. 
    Michael Says:
    August 12th, 2009 at 10:59 am

    did you try to mean, 5% ??

    The first 20K is tax free, and there are reliefs, and depending upon marital status, there are a lot of benefits.

64. 
    SK Says:
    August 15th, 2009 at 7:25 am

    How much do consultant radiologists make in Singapore per annum ?

65. 
    maheenda Says:
    August 16th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    I AM A DOCTOR FROM SRILANKA HAVING MBBS, DIP. IN FAMILY MEDICINE, POST GRAD. DIP. IN COUNCELLING PSYCHOLOGY & PSYCHOSOCIAL WORK ( ALL FROM UNI. OF COLOMBO ). CURRENTLY, IN A STATE TEACHING HOSPITAL AS A MO FOR 12 YEARS AND PART TIME GP ( 48 HOURS A WEEK )FOR > 10 YEARS. WILL I HAVE AN OPPOTUNITY AS A GP IN SIGAPORE ?

66. 
    Michael Says:
    August 16th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Maheenda,

    off-hand, I remember University of Colombo is a pre-approved University.

    Approach the hospitals.

67. 
    Salmonela Says:
    August 16th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    I am fully qualified to work in Singapore. Sent several e mail to singhealth and respective hospital 1 month ago. Till now still no response. Can anyone comment on this?? Is it normal to wait for so long?? From what i know, the respective department is currently short of people.

68. 
    naina Says:
    August 30th, 2009 at 2:26 am

    Hi, I am USA trained internal medicine physician with fellowhip training as well in a medical subspeciality which I just finished in June.I had to move to Singapore for personal reasons and I am trying to look for a job here.From what I understand I can only get jobs as an associate consultant here. It sounds like a second fellowship/training to me which I am not too excited about considering I already finished one.Any idea what it entails and how long is the duration?Thanks!!!Any info is appreciated.

69. 
    MOHH Says:
    August 31st, 2009 at 9:17 am

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/…associate_consultant_and_consultant

    Associate Consultants and Consultants are Specialists who have completed Basic & Advanced Specialist Training. Besides being responsible for patient care, Consultants are senior doctors who are expected to provide leadership to all levels of staff, including teaching and training.
    Eligibility Criteria To be eligible for the Associate Consultant/Consultant position, applicants must satisfy the following conditions:

    must be accredited as a Specialist by the Specialist Accreditation Board, Ministry of Health
    must be granted medical registration by the Singapore Medical Council (SMC)
    must be granted an Employment Pass to work in Singapore (applicable to non-Singaporean/ non-Singapore PR)
    must possess the relevant years of experience

70. 
    specialist surgeon Says:
    September 1st, 2009 at 1:37 am

    from the above discussion it seems that specialist surgeons earn above s$ 10k plus additional remuneration depending on the surgeries they do.the question in my mind is how much more do they go to. i am a specialist surgeon with more than 10 years of experience. taking into consideration the incentives what should be the salary expectatiuons and whats the level of taxation and whats the take home?

71. 
    mohh Says:
    September 1st, 2009 at 10:02 am

    Specialised surgeon – $27,977

    a lot more depending on how many surgery you do and how many years of experience you have

    income tax is also lower than most countries so take home pay is about 80% for top earners (after 20% tax)

    Join us
    we need foreign talents to contribute to our economy and make singapore the Asia Medical Hub.

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/career.html

72. 
    specialised surgeon Says:
    September 1st, 2009 at 12:59 pm

    a lot more than s$27k is how much more mohh can u give me an approximate figure. i have a frcs degree from uk which i guess should be acceptable in singapore.

73. 
    mohh Says:
    September 1st, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Sorry not convenient to post here.
    Can you email my director instead.
    We provide base salary and bonuses depending on performance.

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : recruit@mohh.com.sg

74. 
    a lot more Says:
    September 1st, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    It’s A LOT MORE. As mentioned by our minister (read article at top), he made more as a surgeon than as a minister. A minister in Singapore makes S$2-3 million a year. Go figure.

75. 
    on the ground Says:
    September 2nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    I would advise foreign doctors to check out blogs like angrydoc and gigomole for frank criticism on how working as a doctor is like. If you could be attached for a few weeks, would b even better, rather than move over, and get cultural shock.

76. 
    Wil Says:
    September 2nd, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Could someone please tell me what is the expected salary for a child and adolescent psychiatrist in singapore. I’m going to finish my training in uk in a year time and I have also got a postgraduate diploma in child law.

77. 
    mohh Says:
    September 3rd, 2009 at 11:14 am

    10K++ depending on experience
    Working in Singapore is a wonderful experience

    Eg http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/drs_talk.html
    Opportunities for Career and Personal Development
    I came to work in the Department of Emergency Medicine at the National University Hospital, Singapore back in 1994. What attracted me to this place was because I like a strong and able government and, having worked in the UK, USA and a third world country, that was a refreshing change.

    Another reason was to take my career up to the next level. I had a wealth of clinical and teaching experience but my path to an administrative role (i.e. running an emergency department) was blocked due to a lack of opportunities. I decided to move to Singapore and was offered the opportunity to head the department at the hospital. I would like to advise foreign medical graduates who are interested to work in Singapore to pick a field that is less staffed such as biomedical sciences, cardiothoracic surgery and neurology. This way, they can make a greater contribution to the development of these specialties and gain satisfaction from being true pioneers of their respective fields in Singapore.

    However, prospective applicants should know that they would be required to put in the effort and work hard in order to be able to succeed. Those who do would be to reap the rewards and be provided with ample opportunities for career and personal development. They will also be able to broaden their knowledge and gain experience in the handling many unique diseases and conditions.

    by Prof Peter G Manning, Senior Consultant
    Department of Emergency Medicine

    Registration:
    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709452985.html

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : recruit@mohh.com.sg

78. 
    PAEDIATRICS Says:
    September 8th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Hi,
    Really informative forum,Thanx to u all.
    I am a Pediatrician with MRCPCH and I am in touch with one of the Govt hospitals.I am offered a post of MO for the first year to be followed by promotion to Registrar latter on.I want to know the Slaries and real chance of stepping up to the AST?Will appreicate any advice.

79. 
    polyclinic patient Says:
    September 8th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    sounds like you’ll be working in a polyclinic. we need more talented foreign doctors as there aren’t enough local ones due to the unforeseen boom in imported population. welcome!

80. 
    PAEDIATRICS Says:
    September 8th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    HI
    Thanks for the suggestion.No indeed it is a Hospital job.I wan’t advice regading work culture, and Salaries,housing and other allowances and also AST .

81. 
    hospadmin Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    For paeds
    In public sector, only National University Hospital and KK Hospital

    work culture: Paed well respected in Singapore, chance to go private and earn more money

    Salaries: MO salary (3500-5000)exclude bonus
    foreigners get housing allowance
    Since you have MRCPCH,u can negotiate for 500 more per month (postgrad qualification)

    AST competitive and they are thinking of making it seamless i.e like us residency programme.
    Current system is like uk system
    This is to cater to Duke-NUS medical graduates who are graduating next yr.

    Contact my director for further details
    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : recruit@mohh.com.sg

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/career.html

82. 
    salmonela Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 9:19 am

    Dear all,

    I just gone through the process of resume submission and interview by HOD for position of registrar. The whole process took me more than 2 months.

    My senior from Malaysia and most of my friend who work in Sg faced the same problem before. I took their advice to email the HOD before they noticed my application and ask me for interview. HR from respective hospital just don’t know the whereabout of my submission summited 1.5 months ago. Get no respond from Singhealth also..

    A bit disappointment with pubic healthcare system in Sg.

    Still doubtfully that, Sg healthcare system is flexible enough to absorb people like me who have the qualification to jump the queue of local candidate for AST program.

    salmonela

83. 
    hosp admin Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Sorry for your bad experience

    You will be pleased to note that there is now centralisation of medical manpower recruitment.
    This is done via Ministry of Health Holdings.

    Singapore believes in meritocracy and foreign graduates will not be discriminated against as they are considered as foreign talents.

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : recruit@mohh.com.sg

84. 
    hosp admin Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 9:53 am

    I hope this helps.

    Jobs available from Singhealth
    http://sg.dimension.jobsdb.com/career/default.asp?PID=1&AC=SGH&EC=000&GC=G1&LID=1&GID=108

    Jobs available from NHG
    http://sg.dimension.jobsdb.com/career/default.asp?PID=1&AC=SGNHG&EC=NHG&GC=G1&LID=1&SP=1&GID=106&Action=Submit

    Why Doctors work in Singapore?

    Jobs in Singapore
    Of last year new jobs, nearly half went to foreigners who make up almost a third of Singapore’s work force. Government is said to be taking steps to encourage its migrant workers to stay at their jobs, including the “foreign talents” who are highly educated and skilled expats from the overseas countries. The Singapore government is gathering more talents in its expanded Healthcare Industry. That means more Doctors and Specialists.

    Moving to Singapore
    If you live about 30 minutes away from the center of the city, you can get a three bedroom condominium for $1,300 to $3,000 a month or a room for $400 to $750 a month in the same area. Your children can have access to excellent education facilities at both local and international schools up to the university level. You will find that purchasing and maintaining your own car is quite expensive. The alternative is an efficient and cheap public transport system that covers the whole of Singapore, or to take taxis (quite cheap) and rent a car for special occasions.

    Salaries and Benefits in Singapore
    An accountant can earn an average of US$60,000 while a financial analyst can earn almost US$79,000 a year. A doctor/specialist can earn up USD 350,000 or more a year. Singapore has a five½ workday and 44-hour workweek. Employees receive a fourteen to twenty one day vacation leave for the first year of service and two-three weeks leave and paid sick leave. Salaries of expats are usually competitive especially with an additional package of transportation, housing, education, entertainment and child care allowances plus partial subsidies for dental and medical insurance.

    Local Taxes in Singapore
    Foreign workers who have a work visa or employment permit are usually taxed. Singapore taxes are rather low compared to taxes in Europe and the US. Income tax is about 12-15% and value added tax is about 5%. In fact, personal income tax rates are among the lowest in the world. A foreigner is classified as a tax resident when he has lived in Singapore for 183 days in a year or for three years running.

    Jobs in High Demand in Singapore
    Medical Professionals (Doctors)
    Salaries can go as high as US$350,000 or more a year for Medical Professionals such as Doctors.

    Immigration and Visa Issues in Singapore
    You need a Professional Visit Pass if you are going to take part in a conference or seminar You need a Work Permit or Employment pass if you are going to stay longer and work in Singapore. You can get a pass for professionals and highly skilled workers; or a pass for middle level workers such as technicians; or a work permit for unskilled and semi-skilled workers including domestic help.

    Skilled professionals can obtain permanent residency status and even citizenship.

85. 
    salmonela Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Is this is the case, the respective hospital should eliminate the option in their website to accept online application for doctor.

    They just unable to handle it.

    salmonela

86. 
    hosp admin Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    well we centralise employment to help in recruitment but there is still a problem of allocation so there is still a need for some overlap.

    Just apply thru mohh which is an organisation dedicated to recruit medical manpower but also apply to the hospital you are interested in so that we can then allocate you to the hospital.

87. 
    salmonela Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 10:57 am

    For your info, this is not a separate incident. My friend email the HOD directly to get interview after waited for few months. Only those people who engaged through the recruitment team from Sg to Malaysia gone through the process smoothly.

    There is might be problem with the channel of recruitment or the information/massage delivered.

88. 
    ft Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    Let’s just say that not everybody in Singapore believes in meritocracy.
    There are those who are suspicious of foreign talents and think they steal jobs rather than create jobs

89. 
    PAEDIATRICS Says:
    September 9th, 2009 at 7:38 pm

    HI.
    Thanx again to all of u.It is really interesting forum and really informative.I am thinking to make it as my home page.If some one can answer:
    -Regarding cost of living and educational expances.
    -Take home salary.
    -Citizenship criteria.

90. 
    angmo doctor Says:
    September 10th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    Q1
    http://www.xpatxperience.com/makinghome/singapore_cost_of_living.shtml

    Q2
    Depends on qualification and years of experience
    Paed should be $10,000 – $15,000 per month which
    is very high in Singapore.

    Q3.
    http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=151
    Eligibility

    The following categories of foreigners are eligible to apply for permanent residence:

    (a) Spouse and unmarried children (below 21 years old) of a Singapore Citizen
    (SC)/SingaporePermanent Resident (SPR)
    (b) Aged parents of a SC
    (c) P, Q or S work pass holders
    (d) Investors/Entrepreneurs

    Foreigners residing overseas who are interested to study, work and live in Singapore may apply for in-principle approval for permanent residence by submitting an application through SMC Management Consultants Pte Ltd in Singapore provided they satisfy certain guidelines.

91. 
    Slave of medicine Says:
    September 10th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    I think most of you have been masked from the reality. I’m a foreign grad and came to singapore as a MO. I totally aware of the issue of overworked and underpaid!!

    Well, probably this article above is true if u are working for private sector, or a specialist. But in general, the medical sector in singapore is like a field of slavery. How many percent of us actually made it through to become a registrar/consultant? even if u made it, how many of u can get into the private sector?

    Why concern on the total amount that you earn p.a? why not look at how many hours you work per week and count your pay per hour?? Believe it or not, our pay per hour is probably lesser than a nurses’ pay per hour.

    How many of you who want to do medicine, full of enthusiasm, thinking that u might make big money out of medicine actually and realise how hard a medical doctor has to work? perhaps a lot of us are/were just way too naive…

    Do you know what is on call? do you know how long does a call last for? and how much do u get out of a call??
    The definition of ON CALL:
    Start working from 7am – 5pm (your daily working hours), then continue from 5pm – 7am the next day (ON CALL); subsequently continue to work like any other day from 7am – 12pm…then you can go home if your colleague is around to cover your daily routine. Please count the number of hours that u have to work non-stop. You think you can take a nap at night when u are ON CALL? forget it!! And working for 30++ hours will give you how much in return??? SGD 110-130 (for HO) and SGD 240-340 (for MO)

    Do you think this is physiological? Do you think this is safe for patients or your own health?
    Do you think with a basic salary + call pay (taxable) that gives u SGD about 3800-4500 per month (before tax) is worth you spending millions to get the medical degree and work like a donkey for the next 10-20 years? How long do you have to work in order to pay back the amount that you’ve spent on your degree??

    If you want to work as a doctor but VERY concern about your pay and increment, i suppose you are not suitable to be in the medical profession. Ask around and find out what is it like to be a doctor before you get yourself into the puddle of mud. If you ask me how many medical doctors actually regret of being a doctor.. i would say more than 80% of us DO regret of being one… not becoz the pay is low. Our welfare and wellbeing is just being ignored by the authority. Doctor is a very nobel profession, however it is also a very inhumane profession that will cause us more harm than good… we are human after all, we are not an immortal.. Even a domestic servant will get to have their meals, toilet breaks and adequate rest on a daily basis!! these are basic human needs!! So what are we??? we are slaves!!!!!

92. 
    Salmonela Says:
    September 10th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Wow, impressive comment!!!

    I share the same concern. I am a bit hesitating of going to Sg partially due to the same factor. I met my friends who work as registrar in Sg one month ago and i found them more depress and not like before. They complained of over work round the clock and even during weekend.

    I think my field suppose to be nice one but i heard that most of the doctors in the particular department work until 8-9pm at night, and they consider it normal… so …. i think my condition here is much more comfortable.

    salmonela

93. 
    hospadmin Says:
    September 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    To slave of medicine,
    I think yr view is biased. You can choose a posting without call like polyclinic, accident and emergency, medical admin, health promotion board.

    Since u are a foreign graduate, u can quit the public sector and work under supervision of a senior gp in the private gp sector like Raffles Medical Group, Parkway or Healthway.

    Majority of our doctors are hardworking and work long hours to care for our subsidised patients. Unless you wish healthcare expenditure to increase, pay of doctors will have to be kept low
    and those who are more interested in money rather than helping the poor and needy patients can work in the public hospitals

    Working conditions of doctors are far from ideal and we are trying our best to recruit doctors to help take care of the aging population. Please dont forget that you were hired to ease the workload on local doctors.

    To salmonela
    The situation is improving as we are hiring more doctors to cover the shortfall. Most of the time, doctors stay behind to take care of their patients and they dont usually claim overtime meaning they feel morally obliged to take care of the poor and needy patients.

    If you are concerned about the workload, should uou not then come over to Singapore to ease the workload of your friends and if possible bring more friends along to make life better?
    Compared to our neighbours, we pay much more and offer equal opportunity to foreign talents to become specialists unlike most countries who favour their citizens.

    Singapore is a meritocratic society and talented foreign talents are valued highly and are given equal opportunity to excel instead of being discriminated against like in UK, US or Australia.

    I hope you are not affected by the biased view of slave of medicine. We reserve the right to discipline him/her should he/she continue to deter our efforts to recruit top foreign doctors to Singapore

94. 
    Salmonela Says:
    September 11th, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    Don’t take this personal ok. I am only referring to my friends’ experience. I am influenced by them mainly.

    I thought my country spending on healthcare in term on GDP is way below WHO recommendation and now i know it is almost the same case in Sg.

    I always think why Sg lacks of human resources in healthcare. I still finding the answer. Is that because Singaporean doesn’t like to become doctor due to poor working condition (like some of them in this forum said work in bank better), the recent fast growing health tourism, or not enough placement in medical school?

    If it is because the first 2 points, slave of medicine has his point to ventilate his dissatisfaction.

    I as a doctor, i don’t expect to become a millionaire with my profession. I can achieve that if i decided to overwork till i die. I believe in seeing patient without looking at profit but focus on what i can make a change to their life.

    We have life outside hospital. I just want work life balance.

    Salmonela

95. 
    civilservant Says:
    September 11th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Sg lack human resource in healthcare cause many drs quit to join the private sector.
    There is actually sufficent drs in the private sector which is why I say medical school selection is not perfect and not all drs will stay in the public sector earning less and working more.

    Hopefully more drs will think like our minister Dr Ng who worked twice as much now as a minister earning only 1/5 of his previous salary in the private sector. Money is not everything and we do need dedicated drs to work in the public sector for the poor and needy.

    By flooding the private sector with gps and specialists, this will help in public sector retaining doctors and improve working conditions of doctors in Singapore.

96. 
    PAEDIATRICS Says:
    September 11th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Hi
    What is the usual duration of time taken by MOHH to send an offer letter ?
    Any other tips to know before planning a relocation to this beutiful country?

97. 
    Slave of medicine Says:
    September 14th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    Yeah hospadmin, my comment may be biased. Look who is biased. Talking about foreign and local doctors. I did not mention if I am a singaporean, unless you stratified foreign and local by their degree itself. And cant belive that you actually encourage people to go private where you are supposed to recruit people and help the LOCAL doctors. Aren’t everyone supposed to be treated equally? What if i’m a singaporean but graduated overseas? am i supposed to be treated as a foreign doctor?

    Anyway, have you actually worked in the clinical setting before? or even watch how all the doctors work in the hospital? This comment is not only from foreign grad like me, even the LOCAL grads are unhappy about the current situation. Be it local or foreign, we are here to serve your country and hope for a better change.

    Do you honestly DO NOT agree that we are being exploited to work >30 hours non-stop and underpaid? We work almost 6.5 to 7 days per week without being paid for the weekend? Do you get a day off every week?? even Maids have a compulsary day off, isn’t it true??

    Let’s compare your own pay to your workload and working hours then. Do you think you work as hard as any doctors that work under the government sector? Do you want to count your pay/hour to ours? There is a virtual “rule” that says that we cant work for more than X hours per week? But does anyone care? If you are under the MOHH, have u actually care of how long we work? is it safe for a human being to work long hours, and this person is handling people’s life? you may become a patient one day, will be feel safe to be taken care of by someone that has been working long hours without any rest? do you think that person’s judgment will still be sound? you think about it..

    Probably you are one of them that recruit ppl from overseas to relieve the workload of the local doctors, but has anything been changed? you have recruited hundreds of foreign grads, singaporeans and non-singaporeans. However, all of us still work as hard..so what and where is the change? You mentioned that the cost has to be kept low, but the hours remain the same..so the GOOD change is increase the quantity of doctor, remain/cut your budget but the workload remains?

    Everyone realise that the private sector is offering good money and good hours.
    But not everyone would like to go there because we do want to serve the poor and help those who are in need. But do you think we need to sacrifice so much and live an unhealthy lifestyle just becoz we are SUPPOSED to commit our life to medicine and not expecting anything for return.
    HONESTLY, a lot of us do want to retain in the government sector and we are not expecting to earn big money and live in luxury. All we want is to work safely, and live a slightly more balance life. We don’t even mind doing calls if we can go post-call at 8am! that is definitely possible if the someone can help to make a change! The only reason why the call hours are not being changed for the past few decades is merely becoz the seniors used to work twice as hard as us and all of them survived. So we should and shall not complain of working long hours. But the amount of nurses and doctors was way lesser back then. It make sense why they had to work so hard. But why is that still happening now?

    We are not working in a third world country, things should be changed.. Hospadmin, I believe I’m not the only one that have mentioned about this. As this problem has been existing for decades… Do ask yourself if all the statements above are true to a certain extend before you comment that this is biased. As you’ll have your biased opinion from admin point of view too.
    Most of the doctors are still dedicated to serve the public; also agree that money is not everything. However dedication and enthusiasm may burn out one day when one has to work so hard that ones health and family is being neglected. We are just a human being after all..

98. 
    hospadmin Says:
    September 15th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Dear slave of medicine,
    I do hope you stop painting a biased view of Singapore hospital life or actions may be taken against you.

    Firstly, encouraging greedy doctors to go private help ensure that those remaining in the public sector work for love of their patients rather than for money. They will tend to complain less and lower morale of the doctors in the public sector.

    Flooding the private sector with doctors also help in increasing competition and lower healthcare costs. Look at cost of lasik.

    Polyclinic doctors do not work >30 hours non stop so you have a choice not to choose hospital postings that are less family friendly.
    Long working hours help to reduce cost of manpower.
    Why hire 2 doctors when 1 doctor can do the same job for less? Then again, you will be pleased to note that we are actively hiring doctors from Australia, India, UK, Taiwan, Malaysia. Workload will be decreased but this recruitment drive is difficult enough without your biased comments about work in Singapore.

    I think that you should speak to MOHH asap and request to transfer to a family friendly posting like polyclinic, health promotion board as you have shown to be totally burnt out as evidence by your biased view.

99. 
    Salmonela Says:
    September 15th, 2009 at 7:49 am

    HI,

    If private doctors should classified as greedy then the whole world should be classified as such excluding doctors from public hospital. I am in private. I just don’t agree with the way gov treated me.

    It look scary that hospadmin would like to take action against slave of medicine. where is the freedoom of speech here. You can provide neccesary data and statistic to prove him/her wrong, but taking action will just scare people away.

100. 
     hospadmin Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 8:56 am

     To salmonela:

     I am not calling private doctors greedy but asking those in the public sector who wants more money to join the private sector instead.
     If wanting more money for doing the same work is not greedy, what is?

     Taking action means that people will not post biased view of working in Singapore. As employees of public hospitals, they must not mislead the public and should not comment on their work in public hospitals.

     I hope this clarifies our stand.

101. 
     localdr Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 10:10 am

     I seriously think hospadmin is living in his/her ivory tower.
     Stop recruiting foreign drs to flood the medical community. This will lower the salaries of local doctors and force them to switch to other lucrative fields.
     I have many seniors doing medical aesthetics instead of GP work.

     Slave of medicine is an example of a lousy foreign doctor. Stop making a fool of yourself. Your degree is recognised elsewhere so leave if you are not happy. U think u are hero but u are just a nus reject.

     Recruiting doctors like slave of medicine just lower the morale of existing local doctors who work so hard but are forced to fight on equal terms with foreign doctors for limited traineeship.

     Singapore should be for Singaporean only. Stop recruiting foreign doctors and depressing our local wages.

102. 
     admin Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 10:24 am

     Dear hospadmin,

     On September 15th, 2009 at 1:26 am, you said the following to “slave of medicine”:
     “I do hope you stop painting a biased view of Singapore hospital life or actions may be taken against you.”

     Can you explain what “actions” will be taken against him/her? Why the threat?

     I’m the admin of this site. I encourage constructive and civilized discussions here. Even heated personal arguments are fine. But threatening others is just too much.

     There are OB markers here, and threatening others is definitely a no-no.

     I have allowed you to advertise your MOHH recruitment service for free, so the least you could do is to abide by the rules here.

     Now, I need you to retract your threat and apologize to “slave of medicine” or actions will be taken against you.

103. 
     hospadmin Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 10:35 am

     Dear admin
     I apologise for my threats to slave of medicine.
     However, we do have strict rules for employees making biased comments to the public.

     Please kindly delete all my previous posts.
     I will not longer participate in this forum or advertise for foreign drs to come to Singapore.

     Thanks

104. 
     middleclass Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

     localdr: Singapore exists only because of global trade. We have open door policy for foreign talents that keeps us competitive. Our wages have been depressed across the board for all blue and white collars workers. Why should doctors be exempted from this?
     I’m not trying to be funny but rather am interested to hear your opinion on this.

105. 
     localdr Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

     If wages for doctors continue to fall, we will not be able to attract top students to join medicine.
     If wages are low in Singapore, how do we attract our children who are trained overseas to return?

     Our medical degree is also recognised only in Singapore and we cant migrate easily unlike other professionals which are more mobile so we should protect local doctors and not let foreign doctors come to Singapore to practise.

106. 
     middleclass Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

     localdr: thanks for sharing. i can certainly understand given that i’m in IT and faces the same challenges too. actually there are very few professions in Singapore that don’t faces depressed wages. even the dish washing aunties faces competitions for their jobs. only point i don’t share is that anyone else is more mobile than doctors. we’re all in the same boat.

107. 
     localdr Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

     Anyway it is a good thing that hospadmin is kicked out from the forum.
     It is people like him/her that cause our salaries to fall.
     We should ban all recruitment of foreign doctors in Singapore and protect the salaries of local doctors!

108. 
     middleclass Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

     localdr: i’m not sure if that would be a good solution. we’ll also need to ban all recruitment of foreign talents in all other sectors. otherwise who will be your patients who can afford the high salaries of all the local doctors?

109. 
     Wil Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

     Calm down people.

     Of course, some people want to come to singapore because of the attractive salary.

     However, some people (like myself)want to come to singapore because of its non-racism image.
     These recent comments certainly make me think twice about coming to singapore as i orginally thought most singaporean are friendly (at least that’s the impression i got from my singaporean friends).

     I can understand the frustration of foreign doctors taking up all the good posts from local doctors. It happens everywhere. However, on the other hand, by recruiting foreign doctors it helps the country to save money as training costs money! Wouldn’t it be a good thing for a foreign country to train a doctor for you and you don’t have to pay a penny (dollar in singapore terms)?!

     Therefore, it is not the foreign doctors’ fault for coming over, as at the end of the day you guys do need more doctors. It sounds like it is the local system fault of not supporting the local doctors.

     Calm down people. Lots of people reading this forum. It’s not just about who’s got who’s job. Do not ruin the image of such a beautiful place like singapore.

110. 
     richdoc Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

     dear admin, hospadmin made threats TWICE, once in #93 and another time in #98.

     while others are just stating their points of view- obviously biased for some but definitely fair comments in a discussion forum- hospadmin is the one who’s scaring away the foreign docs! and now we know the true colors of sg bureaucrats.

111. 
     richdoc Says:
     September 15th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

     further, all docs judge for yourselves- if life is really good, people would be singing praises and hospadmin wouldn’t have to copy and paste feel-good stories here. hail internet freedom!

112. 
     Slave of medicine Says:
     September 16th, 2009 at 1:00 am

     Perhaps I have been assumed to be a greedy lousy foreign doctor that wants more money but less work. Well, if fighting for a better work life balance to improve the quality of life of all public doctors is wrong, I will apologise for my honest opinion. Again i clarify myself, I DO NOT WANT A PAY RISE, but a SLIGHTLY more reasonable working hours. Eg.Shift work may be a solution to this problem. However, the statement “Why hire 2 doctors when 1 doctor can do the same job for less?”, have answered the question why we are still working as hard. Well, hoping to go post call by 8(after working for 25hours)is too much?? and get myself labelled as a lazy greedy doctor? really?? is my suggestion really that unreasonable?

     It is a fact that FOREIGN grads are not welcome in singapore. Whether or not you are a singaporean, it doesnt matter. As long as you are a NUS reject or non-NUS grad, you are considered as a foreign doctor. I think that is very sad. Unfortunately, a lot of the LOCAL grads will have to do calls every other day or every 3 days without foreign grads. But not many people have realised that.

     If making a little change like shortening call hours for 4-5 hours can retain a few more people to stay in public hospital, the workload in the public hospital will be significantly reduced in a long run, and less complain will arise. Isnt that a better solution than asking people to go private??! or do postings like GP, public health, or admin work??

     Sadly, not a lot of people are open to this idea. I guess there is no point fighting for our rights anymore, as feedback will easily be taken as threats.

113. 
     starwars Says:
     September 16th, 2009 at 3:35 am

     why all this fight and quarrelling on the net? i am a local specialist. a tried and tested product of the entire singapore system. i dont regret one moment of it and i would do it all again!!

     i used to do 15 calls a month as a registrar. no off days. used to sleep on the operating table cos i was too tired to go back to my call room. it was part of my surgical training. i used to be so tired and wondered why i did it. now i dont regret one moment of it. why? cos it gave me the amount of experience which the current junior surgeons will never ever have. at this time, if i see a case, i dont even have to think of what to do. its so natural to me now. all because of the hours which i put it. its just like training for a marathon.
     no one forces it on you, no one forces you to do it.

     i trained in the US as well, and you think we work hard? no way. those guys in the top hospitals are mad…. they will do anything to rise to the top.

     if you want to play the game, then you got to play by the rules. if you want to win, then you got to put in the miles. otherwise, dont even start cos you wont even see the finish line.

     if you want to be the best of the best, THEN YOU GOT TO PUT IN THE HOURS. other wise, dont even think of starting cos you will NOT MAKE IT to the top of the top. period. there is not short cut in surgery or in medicine or in any other career for that matter. law, business, you name it. its all about hard work.

     so why all the moping and crying?
     i left cos i had all the experience i required. i left cos the govt service could not offer me what i wanted to do. and how i wanted to grow and offer the level of service which i can offer now that i am in private practise. simple. money was not the objective. of cos, if you offer a level of service and quality which the govt service cannot offer, people will naturally come to you. simple. as in any other business. service, quality, efficiency and good results and attention to details. its the same age old formula that will never change. not now. not ever.

     i employ surgeons now to work for me. i have practises in many of the private hospitals.
     i only handpick the best of the best and pay them very well. cos they too have put in the miles and they have risen to the top of their profession.
     do the same if you want to rise to the top. otherwise, dont even come into the fraternity.

     if you are good, you will always room at the top of your profession no matter where you are. there will always be room at the top for the best.

     so why worry about foreign competetition?

     we need to renew our talent. if our locals cant make it or dont want to do it, then lets open our doors to the rest of the world. let us take the best of the best and let them offer their skills in this tiny country. whatever their profession. singapores only talent lies in its people. what resources do we have? if our locals dont want to work hard for it, then there are thousands of people all around the world who would give an arm and a leg to come here to work.

     just like the foreign chinese or indian students. look at them. they work so hard. they are so very competetitive. group all the best indians professionals from around the world and you will have a place that is better than the whole of harvard put together.

     you think our competetition is within singapore?
     no way. its with the rest of the world.

     lets stop this bickering and focus on the real deal.

     you got to work hard, and be focussed.
     aim to be the best of the best. in what ever you do.
     live by a code :

     1. do not put off what you can do today till tomorrow.
     2. if you want to do anything, then do the best you can or don’t do it at all
     3. dont bluff yourself

     my 2 cents worth

114. 
     adiemuso Says:
     September 16th, 2009 at 9:08 am

     starwars,

     fully agree. folks in another thread speak about big $$ in front office positions in financial sectors. but $$ comes at a price. u need to sweat, suffer and exchange your own personal time and freedom for each and every ounce of Gold. nothing is free. noone is entitled to anything. being through the rigours of law school or med school does not give u any rights to riches.
     hate to say this but we can see lotsa such dreamers around us. smart but not realistic.
     look at our foreign talent friends, some are really workhorses, working 20hrs a day, some are slackers, however end of the day its only the cream that stays.

115. 
     starwars Says:
     September 17th, 2009 at 12:32 am

     yes sir adiemuso. i agree. if its easy and can make big bucks quick quick , tell me. i also want that job!!
     if you want it bad enough, u will do anything for it.
     if you cant cut it, sorry, there will tons of others who are willing and who can. life sucks…i know..but thats the way of the world.
     so any takers to do surgery? hehehe. welcome to the real world of medicine..not what you see on tv. they only show the glamour guts and glory. not the toil sweat tears and pain to get there.

     my 2 cents worth

     so everyone stop moping. and start working hard. and dont focus on the money. cos if you do, it will pass you by. but focus on the job..and the money will come in. tons of it.

116. 
     PAEDIATRICS Says:
     September 17th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

     Hi,Friends,There were some heated arguments in last weeks post’s.But I feel the congluding reamaks are beyound doubt very positive and constructive.This profession is for those who have a passion for patients or else…
     No body respsonded to my Q…How much time MOHH needs to send an offer after interview?
     Good luck to all.

117. 
     starwars Says:
     September 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

     hi paediatrics.

     my wife is a specialist paediatrician and neonatologist in private practise.

     so i know quite a bit about the training and the employment prospects in singapore.

     the best way to enter into singapore : do neonatology.
     that is the biggest demand in singapore.

     there are quite a few general paediatricians in singapore and as such, the demand is not there.
     however, the major demand is for neonatologists and that is the fastest way to land a job in singapore. provided you have the necessary training.

     starwars

118. 
     roger Says:
     September 19th, 2009 at 2:36 am

     quote:
     from hospadmin:
     I do hope you stop painting a biased view of Singapore hospital life or actions may be taken against you.

     Firstly, encouraging greedy doctors to go private help ensure that those remaining in the public sector work for love of their patients rather than for money. They will tend to complain less and lower morale of the doctors in the public sector.

     Flooding the private sector with doctors also help in increasing competition and lower healthcare costs. Look at cost of lasik.

     Polyclinic doctors do not work >30 hours non stop so you have a choice not to choose hospital postings that are less family friendly.
     Long working hours help to reduce cost of manpower.
     Why hire 2 doctors when 1 doctor can do the same job for less? Then again, you will be pleased to note that we are actively hiring doctors from Australia, India, UK, Taiwan, Malaysia. Workload will be decreased but this recruitment drive is difficult enough without your biased comments about work in Singapore. ”

     probably one of the stupidest, most bigoted and overly self-righteous posts i’ve read this year on ANY forum.

119. 
     regor Says:
     September 19th, 2009 at 11:25 am

     Dear Roger
     I dont think hospadmin is stupid, bigoted or self righteous.

     He is telling those who complain to leave the public sector. As a subsidised patient, do you want to see caring dr who work for the love of their parents or do you want to see doctors like slave of medicine who complain about low pay, long working hours, unfair treatment of foreign doctors?

     I dont know about you but I prefer good and caring doctors who care less for money than for the well being of their patients.
     I hope hospadmin screen the foreign doctors and not bring in mecenary doctors who are here for the money of Singaporean.

120. 
     callsarecrazy Says:
     September 19th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

     Dear regor

     What slave of medicine is saying is that shifts in excess of 30 hrs are dangerous for patients!

     I think everyone must realise that its a patient safety hazard which hospital administrators need to be cognizant of.

     Long call hours without sleep are a health hazard to the drs themselves and a hazard to patient safety too.

     If MOHH doesnt care about the well being of their drs in their employment, then please at least spare a thought for the patients who’ll be treated by overworked, tired out drs.

     People like slave of medicine voice out their frustration because they want to see change in a system that is grieviously wrong and has failed both drs and patients alike.

     hospadmin’s reply and unwarranted threats were utterly disappointing. I certainly hope that that’s not the attitude of most of our hospital administrators.

     Administrators should come to the hospitals and sit through calls with the drs. Maybe after that they will be more matured in their opinions. Bland threats to a hardworking dr asking for change on an internet forum does not serve his purpose of recruiting more drs in anyway either!

     And I don’t think administrators are in any position to label our doctors as greedy. If a doctor earns a respectable pay, that’s because he’s earned it over the years.

     I agree that hospadmin’s post was probably one of the stupidest, most bigoted and overly self-righteous posts i’ve read this year on ANY forum

     callsarecrazy

121. 
     regor Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 12:07 am

     hi callsarecrazy,
     if you read the posts carefully, you realise that things flare up only after slave of medicine gave an inaccurate protrayal of hospital life in Singapore to discourage foreign doctors to work in Singapore.

     I have friends who are doctors who work in MOH, polyclinic and they all dont seem to work for more than 8 hours. They still have a life outside medicine so I seriously doubt that slave of medicine is making a fair comment.

     It is likely that he is afraid of better foreign doctors coming to Singapore to work and he has to work harder or his contract will not be renewed. Let us welcome foreign doctors to Singapore to improve our healthcare system and not be so negative like slave of medicine!

122. 
     really? Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 1:16 am

     starwars who’s a specialist already said the long hours are necessary. and we’re talking about doctors working in real hospitals. polyclinics and MOH (??!!) are not hospitals.

123. 
     callsarecrazy Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 2:43 am

     regor

     I’m a singaporean doctor and I’m all for whoever can come in to help us with the crippling workload in our hospitals.

     Yea i know people who work in offices/ivory towers probably need not go on call but that’s a mere handful. Polyclinic doctors too are but a small group of doctors. Most polyclinic doctors still end up being rotated back to the hospitals after their stint there.

     The crux of the matter is that the majority of doctors contracted with MOHH still work in the hospitals and many of us still go on calls.

     And hospital calls in excess of 30 hours are crazy! Why do we have to live through this? Why do we have to subject our patients to such danger?

     Can you honestly say just how what fraction of MOHH doctors really work 5.5 day weeks and 44 h workweeks?

     I think that’s an inaccurate claim on hospadmin’s part. And being inaccurate isn’t fair comment either!

     With administrators like hospadmin, its little wonder good people are leaving public practice. I don’t agree that everyone who leaves for public practice is greedy. On the contrary, the private realm has some of our best and brightest clinicians, surgeons, many of whom have been great teachers. When good people, they bring with them their expertise and wealth of clinical knowledge. Some of my best teachers in medical school have left for private practice, and these were some of the most caring doctors and role models I’ve come across. ANd I resent anyone labelling them as greedy.

     Hospadmin should realise that sometimes people leave not just because their life and pay sucks here, but also because of all the administrative red tape, stifling but stupid policies and just the whole load of crap that hospital admin inundate us with.

     I think MOHH could do with fewer administrators like hospadmin. Someone ought to fire that fella!

     To all foreigners who are contemplating coming to Singapore. Come. Learn to connect with Singaporeans, our patients, our doctors. try to slowly pick up some of our everyday language and understand a bit of our culture. Singaporeans may not be the friendliest people in town, but most will open up to you if u prove to be sincere and equal partners in work. Learn things fast and get up to speed quickly. Do not come however if u’re expecting a red carpet welcome or that life will always be a bed of roses.

124. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am

     hospadmin is a typical adminstrator guys. thats the reason why many of us leave. they think that doctors work for the admin in the hospitals. not realising that if i dont work, they DONT get paid. if you think that is bad? get a load of this. all wines given to us in the hospital had to be given to the admin. who would keep the wines and open it on official occasions! for themselves to drink. hahaha. all gifts beyond 50dollars had to be declared. all of that is fine by me. to avoid corruption etc. But the good stuff like wines etc must be given to the admin and not to the dept? can you believe that?

     further more, in the hospitals, it was not how much work you did. it was how often you participated in events, who you carry etc etc. fine. that all is omnipresent in coporate culture. but in surgery? if i am a good surgeon and have tons of patients, shouldn’t we be given acknowledgement? OH NO! that would never happen. why? cos we did not carry the right person in the admin etc etc.

     and they had the aduacity to threaten me upon leaving that it would be difficult to survive in pte practise!! hahaha…biggest joke of the century. ng heng hean was more than right in his comments.

     so to all the govt docs here who are struggling with daily work…
     1. dont fret. CARE FOR YOUR PATIENTS.
     2. stay focussed.your objective is to get the right training and knowledge to treat your patients. first and only objective.
     3. dont get involved in politics.
     4. work very hard. get as much training as you can…ie: do MORE calls.
     5. Hone your medical skills.
     5. hone your communication skills.
     6. treat your patients to the best of your ability.
     7. never be afraid to admit you dont know and ask for help from anyone….both from juniors as well as seniors! cos more heads are better than one.

     and if you get fed up…there is the whole world of pte practise for you. and believe me : you will be outrageously happy!!

     so dont fret with the calls…and get cracking!!!

     and once u are trained : give me a call. i need to employ the best trained doctors around! ie : not just those who have the medical skills but those who can communicate with their patients, and most of all to have the compassion to care for their patients. sounds jaded i know but its the tried and tested receipe for guaranteed success in anything that you do. trust me. i have walked that road and am still walking that road.

     have a great weekend!!

     have a great weekend!

125. 
     hospceo Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

     Hi all drs
     U all must learn to work with us administrators cause we are the clockmaker while all of you are merely timekeeper.
     Dont understand right?
     With more foreign doctors coming to replace all of you local doctors, we will no longer be held to ransom by all of you greedy and lazy doctors.

     Hospitals are run by administrators and not by DOCTORS! So shut up and work and stop bullying my junior administrators who we are grooming to become the next ceo and stop threatening them.

     This will be my first and only post!

126. 
     callsarecrazy Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

     hospceo:

     hey listen up.. you may in the habit of shutting ur fellow administrators..

     BUT U CAN NEVER SHUT US DRs UP

     MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD INVITE UR BOSS UP TO THIS FORUM

     AND PERHAPS AFTER THAT U TOO WILL LEARN TO SHUT UP

127. 
     callsarecrazy Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

     it turns out that hospceo / hospadmin / regor may very well be the same person!

     hey dude.. shut up and apologise already!

128. 
     bigshot Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

     i apologise on behalf of all administrators who offended anyone here. anonymity is a 2-edged sword. on 1 hand it allows people to provide honest feedback without fear of repercussions. on the other hand it gives other people with an agenda to destroy the benefits of anonymous feedback by turning civilised discussions into heated exchanges filled with childish threats. we should all learn to grow up and deal with our differences.

129. 
     peacetoall Says:
     September 20th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

     Dear all,
     Let’s make peace not war in this forum.
     Btw, this forum is about doctor’s pay and not doctor’s working conditions.
     Can we keep to the facts, no more name calling and childish posting?

130. 
     ORL Doc Says:
     September 21st, 2009 at 4:42 am

     Hi
     interesting posting…. same concerns here in the US…. but getting back to the point of the forum, do any of you know of opportunities for an Otolaryngologist/Head & Neck surgeon in Singapore ? i have been practising in the US for over 3years and have done all my training and board certification here, but want to move back to be closer to family. Thanks

131. 
     wavelength Says:
     September 21st, 2009 at 11:20 pm

     http://www.wave.com.au/singapore-medical-jobs.aspx

     Salary, Income Tax and Benefits

     Although the actual salaries paid, if converted to another currency, appear low, the “take home” pay is a considerably different story (especially at the higher end of earnings) because Singapore has one of the lowest taxation systems in the world. The maximum income tax bracket is 20% and on the first SING$300,000 you would only pay approximately $40,000 in tax (or 12.5%).

     Hospitals rarely provide indicative salary levels or scales and salaries are very much based on the Doctors experience and career history. As a rough guide, in Singapore dollars, a newly qualified Consultant can expect to earn $200,000 whilst an experienced Physician can earn over $400,000 (paying only $59,000 in tax, or 15%) and an experienced specialty Surgeon over $500,000 (paying only approximately $80,000 in tax, or 16% ).

     Typically Hospitals in Singapore offer between a 1-3 year renewable employment contract.

     You will generally find Hospitals will also pay annual bonuses, both guaranteed and variable, and offer housing allowances, some relocation costs (flights). Other employment benefits will usually include: Childcare facilities, Competitive leave benefits, Family friendly practices, Flexi-work arrangements, Medical dental and group term life insurance benefits and Subsidised health screening programmes.

     upload your resume at

     http://www.wave.com.au/applicationform/login-register.aspx?referrer=http%3a%2f%2fwww.medicallocumjobs.com%2f%3fgclid%3dCPSfy4f_gp0CFYctpAod-3X5ag

132. 
     Dr. BIKASH SUBEDI Says:
     September 22nd, 2009 at 5:52 pm

     I have completed my mbbs from ustc, bangladesh in 2002 and recently i have completed my MD(Cardiolgy)from BSMMU, Bangladesh in july 2009. I am highly interested to work in singapore as specialist. What post shall get there and what facilities will be provided and what amount of salary i will be paid accoedingly? How shall i apply for the job there? please tell me the total procedure of application

133. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     September 22nd, 2009 at 6:05 pm

     hi there. yes i totally agree. lets stop all this name calling. what ever we say or do, it wont make a difference. the winds of change have hit the shores of singapore and it will be here to stay.

     doctors will still continue to leave and the cycle will carry on. new ones will join and those that are happy being in service, will stay and those that are looking for autonomy will leave.

     there will be a break point eventually. when there are too many doctors in pte practise such that the system cannot support any more, then this will stem the efflux. and those that are unhappy in service will either quit, give up medicine or emigrate to other countries (only to realise that this sort of nonsense is present all over the world!!)

     there was a paucity of doctors leaving for pte practise for a long time until about 2003 till 2007 when a lot of doctors decided to leave.

     but the hosp admin pple are right. as long as they flood the system, and there are way too many doctors, in that way, the efflux of doctors to pte practise will cease.

     however, from a doctors perspective is this good? well, too many doctors means that the overall quality of training goes down significantly. in order to get the necessary training and exposure,the younger doctors will most likely have to take a longer time to get their experience. the problem i forsee is this : in order to stimulate the system flow, the certification process may become easier ( yes you heard me right) easier.

     surgery takes a long time to learn and master. you cannot become a surgeon over night. it takes at least 10yrs to be able to operated competently and safely. even then, for some it may not be enough.

     so only time will tell which direction we are headed.

     but if you ask me: are there enough doctors in singapore. YES of cos. its just the distribution. many of the pte practise doctors have all the knowledge and practise to teach the juniors. its all about distribution. we dont have enough doctors at the junior levels to do the scut work. thats the problem. the system is becoming too top heavy.

     but having said that, I dont have the solution to these problems!
     other than work hard and be happy!!

     que sera sera.

134. 
     wavelength Says:
     September 22nd, 2009 at 10:52 pm

     Hi Dr BIKASH SUBEDI
     I am sorry to inform you that your primary medical degree is not recognised in Singapore.
     http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html

     Your specialist degree is also not recognised in Singapore.
     http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlobs/463/764/List%20of%20Registrable%20Postgraduate%20Medical%20Degrees%20rev%20May%202009.pdf

     http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/career.html
     You may be able to get temporary registration in speciality of need.

     Regards

135. 
     CrazyWisdom Says:
     September 25th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

     Hi everybody
     I’m an orthopedic surgeon got my basic medical degree (MBBch) from Egypt 1997, also Master in Orthopedic Surgery from Egypt also 2004, and then MRCS (England) 2008. I am much interested in coming and work in Singapore as I believe it has the best overseas medical system all over the world after the traditional known Us and UK medical systems, in addition to ppl’s lovely friendly attitude .
     Please can any one advise me about
     1) the best way to apply, what will be my position,
     2) expected salary, and
     3)how long it will take if I got a short listed mail till I really start work
     As all these will be of real concern regarding how I will arrange my time schedule, please urgent reply needed.
     Hope everybody will enjoy their weekend.:)

136. 
     aussiedoc Says:
     September 27th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

     Hi, I’m a palliative physician with australian medical degree (MBBS) plus FRACP and FAChPM and grad.dip pall med and three years experience as consultant…. what do you think I could expect to earn in singapore? thanks…..

137. 
     sgnurse Says:
     September 28th, 2009 at 1:12 am

     Hi I am a nurse working in sg
     drs earn a lot in Singapore compared to us nurses
     I dare say u get at least 10k Singapore dollars

     Hope to see u in Singapore soon.
     Btw, are u married?

138. 
     amazed Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 12:09 am

     Oh dear, I wonder why on earth a nurse would give such comment. Perhaps you are working in a private hospital or you are just a very junior nurse that has no idea what is going on the hospital or how hard is a doctor’s life. Are you looking for a partner from this forum? you’ve come to the wrong place!
     Get back to work and do your research! We do not get 10K per month.
     WAKE UP and stop hunting for doctors!

139. 
     nurse2 Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 8:29 am

     it’s more like 20k rite? i see so many young docs driving bmw and other big cars. don’t tell me they are living beyond their means because they don’t look so. and to be brutally honest, especially in an anonymous way, almost all nurses who are single secretly hope to hook a doc at their workplace, consciously or unconciously.

140. 
     old doc Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

     my wife was a nurse too anyway, not all doctors earn 10k and above and 20k is almost impossible unless you are top of the field or specialized in certain fields. Nowadays, many people are driving BMWs even when they are earning only 4-5k.

141. 
     aussiedoc Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

     well i did not actually give away my gender…. and yes I am married LOL

142. 
     bmw Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

     4-5k can drive bmw!? no wonder youngsters these days can’t pay the high COVs. i have a different ‘bmw’ – bus, mrt and walking.

143. 
     IT Professional 2 Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

     bmw, I love your definition

144. 
     bmw Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

     i just want to be different from the yuppie youngsters these days. they like to build debt. i like to build assets (i’m a shareholder of smrt).

145. 
     sgnurse3 Says:
     September 29th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

     Hey amazed,
     You have anything against nurses?
     We are free to date doctors and obviously doctors earn a lot more than us.

     Specialised surgeons (”specialist” doctors who perform surgeries) ranked number 1 with a 75th-percentile income of $22,821, while GPs came in 4th with $14,653.

     Please refrain from making rude comments especially against nurses who work very hard in Singapore!

146. 
     old doc Says:
     September 30th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

     sgnurse: those high earners that you have mentioned are mainly specialists and not doctors. I think what we meant here are the average GPs. Some GPs might earn more (like the reported $14,653) but from what i know, the avg is below $10k or barely around the $10k mark. There are so many GPs around, how can you expect all of them to earn that much.

147. 
     starwars Says:
     September 30th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

     to the palliative doc australia : you will be certiain of a job in singapore. palliative medicine is still growing in singapore and you will surely be able to get a job. salary will be commensurate with qualifications as well as with experience. i suggest that you enquire with MOHH as well as with SMC. look up their web sites.

     sg nurse : haha you are most rite. there are lots of nurses who want to hook a doctor. its not also cos of the money. i guess its that feeling that marrying a doctor gives them that security that someone will take care of them .at least, that is what all my nurses tell me. this is not from me guys : that statement is from my nurses who i have worked with and am working with. and the feeling is also mutual with many doctors. after all, if you work with someone day in and day out, feelings are sure to develop. lots of my doc frens married nurses whom they worked with. and nurse work really really hard in singapore. i think all nurses should be given a medal!! and lots more pay!

     old doc : yes. many of my GP frens are saying that its not easy out there nowdays. running a GP practise is not like what it used to be. as such, many have gone away from being traditional cough and colds and are into aesthetic medicine like botox fillers and the like. so those who are doing esthetic medicine tend to earn a lot more than those who are the traditionalists.

     starwars

148. 
     CrazyWisdom Says:
     October 1st, 2009 at 2:46 am

     Hi everybody
     I’m an orthopedic surgeon got my basic medical degree (MBBch) from Egypt 1997, also Master in Orthopedic Surgery from Egypt also 2004, and then MRCS (England) 2008. I am much interested in coming and work in Singapore as I believe it has the best overseas medical system all over the world after the traditional known Us and UK medical systems, in addition to ppl’s lovely friendly attitude .
     Please can any one advise me about
     1) the best way to apply, what will be my position,
     2) expected salary, and
     3)how long it will take if I got a short listed mail till I really start work
     As all these will be of real concern regarding how I will arrange my time schedule, please urgent reply needed.
     Hope everybody will enjoy their weekend.:)

149. 
     JooJooBars Says:
     October 5th, 2009 at 9:43 am

     Hi,

     Anyone knows what is the average annual pay for a consultant psychiatrist, private and non-private, in Singapore?

150. 
     jojobee Says:
     October 13th, 2009 at 9:33 am

     i have met a lot of UK trained (Singaporean and malaysian ones) doctors who are heading down to work in Australia as UK /Irish grads are now exempted from taking The Australian Medical Council exams. There is now a scheme known as ‘Competent Authority’ for UK/Amercian/Canandian grads and this means that they are exempted from sitting for AMC Exams

     i have asked some of them why they are not heading back to sgp. the reasons are obvious. The poor working conditions plus the difficulties of getting FULL SMC REGISTRATION is a real drawback.perhaps SMC could make it easier for singaporeans to work their way towards full registration instead of throwing up so many hurdles.

     it is easy for UK trained drs to get full registration in australia now …

151. 
     jojobee Says:
     October 13th, 2009 at 9:52 am

     As we speak, a lot of UK/Irish trained (Singaporean and malaysian ones) doctors are heading down to work in Australia as UK /Irish grads are now exempted from taking The Australian Medical Council exams.
     ‘Competent Authority’ scheme is open to r UK/Amercian/Canandian grads and this means that they are exempted from sitting for AMC Exams

     i have asked some of them why they are not heading back to sgp. the reasons are obvious. The poor working conditions plus the difficulties of getting FULL SMC REGISTRATION is a real drawback.perhaps SMC could make it easier for singaporeans to work their way towards full registration instead of throwing up so many hurdles.

     it is easy for UK trained drs to get full registration in australia now …

152. 
     Michael Says:
     October 13th, 2009 at 10:47 am

     My 2 cents, driven by a strong coffee ..

     As for Medical Council registration .. I guess it is something to do with ‘job security’ for the Resident Doctors, where they curtail ‘foreign Talent’ and ‘overseas graduates’ by making things strict. The word “difficult” is a bit taboo ..

     Comparatively, most of the other countries have woken up and made it easier for expat doctors to practice, as long as their qualifications are in order or they perform supervised duty for 2 years or so. Even though, when a foreign trained doctor screws up, the ‘natives’ are up in arms blaming it on the poor training of the overseas trained doctor ..

     Take Malaysia – even Malaysians, who study in Malaysia, under the twinning arrangements had a tough time getting Malaysian Medical Council approval, even though they are Malaysians, and studied in a Approved Educational Institution ..

     it is Partly for this reason, some time ago, there was a report that a lot of Filipino Doctors are taking up nursing, as nursing has less of such constraints, when it comes to working in different countries. .

     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/health/4295160.stm

     http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1149707/My-baby-care-I-wrongly-accused-abuse-Mothers-nightmare-doctor-misdiagnosed-medical-condition.html

     http://www.gmanews.tv/story/111895/Authorities-alarmed-over-increasing-number-of-migrating-Filipino-doctors

     http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071014011605AA5sImy

     [I am not a doctor, and the above is just an observant comment ... ]

153. 
     jojobee Says:
     October 13th, 2009 at 8:04 pm

     attention UK/Irish/NZ trained doctors:
     competent authority pathway in oz = NO need to sit for barrier exams to eventually gain UNconditional registration in Australia

     see this link: http://www.nswmb.org.au/index.pl?page=178

154. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 14th, 2009 at 11:34 am

     medicine & law are some of the last bastions of elitist protectionism in sgp.

155. 
     Michael Says:
     October 14th, 2009 at 11:41 am

     low cost-tech. It is not just SG, most countries are of the same mentality.

     There was another recent article that said the GPs in UK have expressed that their quality of life improved once the NHS allowed ‘foreign’ doctors to standby on weekends… And the same doctors complain of poor medical care by the foreign doctors.

156. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 14th, 2009 at 11:54 am

     other countries know to take care of their citizens. does SG ?

157. 
     low life Says:
     October 14th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

     In SG, foreigners and PRs are first class. Citizens are second class. Nsmen are the lowest life form (tongue in cheek).

158. 
     Michael Says:
     October 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

     Taking care of Citizens ?

     while it is drifting off, my take on the comment of SG taking care of the citizens, atleast, when it comes to Doctors and Lawyers and the like, the Government or the respective councils seem to be taking care of Singaporeans who graduated in Singapore !! That also adds a bit of foreigners who graduated.

159. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 15th, 2009 at 7:19 am

     I am a junior MOs working in one of the hospitals here. am a NUS grad.
     Clocking more than 10 hours per day is no joke excluding on calls. Plus putting up with ungrateful patients, demanding supervisors/seniors doesn’t make it any easier
     The working environment here is getting very unsafe. Patients lives are at risk.

     The workload here is just getting unrealistic.
     How do I spend more time with my family? Hahahahhah!!!!! What a joke
     To the doctors who are returning from overseas – good luck guys.
     I always advise doctors who are returning from overseas to stay overseas and if they want to return to Singapore, better come back after you have obtained your higher qualifications or else you will be bullied like nobody’s business.

     Medical admins here are not very sympathetic to the plight of the junior staff here.

     Will definitely sit for USMLE or AMC soon!!!

     Slave of medicine/callsarecrazy (post123) says it all

160. 
     kha Says:
     October 18th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

     I would like to inquire on eligibility and requirements for a foreign medical graduate to work / practice in Singapore w/ the ff information:

     - Graduated in Philippines – The Far Eastern University – Dr. Nicanor Reyes Medical Foundation or FEU-NRMF Institute of Medicine
     - Licensed Physician under Republic of the Philippines Professional Regulation Commision (PRC) – August 2009

     Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

161. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 19th, 2009 at 10:49 am

     kha – i am not sure if you have read the above postings.
     do consider it very carefully before you make an decision
     also you better enquire if your passport or your salary is going to be impounded by your employing hospital if you are going home for holidays.

     not sure about drs .. but i do know that the foreign nurses have complained that their passports / 1month salary has been witheld if they were to go away on hoiday

     

162. 
     starwars Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 3:38 am

     why always complaining about the calls? its an necessary evil. we all knew about it when we opted for medicine. so deal with it. its only a short time of your life. you got to do it. cos only when you are on calls are you forced to make decisions. otherwise you will be hand held all the way. and believe me, i have seen many docs being hand held for way too long and when it comes to the crunch, they just cant cut it. and then they run into problems. so grit your teeth and bear with it.

163. 
     angrymo Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 9:58 am

     Starwars is right.
     Dont be a whiner
     Calls are needed so that hospitals can survive. Without calls, the system will collapse.

     If it makes you feel better, residency will start next year and our juniors will have more protected time to learn so blame yourself from being born too early.

     Hope my life improves when residency programme kicks in!

164. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 10:49 am

     there are people in this forum who expect the juniors to be slaves of the UNsustainable system.

     there is nothing wrong with being on calls. But being overworked and not having enough rest is the real problem

     NOT enough rest (working continously for more than 24 hours) = greater chances of creating errors.
     I would like starwars and angrymo to comment if this is true or false.
     We are humans, not machines.

     no wonder, there are a certain group of singaporeans who are trained overseas in UK/NZ/Oz are not opting to come back as juniors.

     It is true that when one comes back as a junior dr, he/she gets trampled all over. It is better for them to start off at least as an associate consultatnt/registrar
     Foreign doctors who view this tread will make the decision themselves.

     meanwhile I will continue to be a SLAVE slogging away while the hosp admins are having their long tea breaks/ enjoying their nice aircon offices/collecting fat salaries! .
     Hey maybe i should get a career in medical administration instead . seems that these administrators are having a better lifestyle than the clinicians.
     

165. 
     angrymo Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

     Well if we survive, why cant you?
     Maybe you should quit medicine and become a medical administrator if you envy their lifestyles so much.

     If you cant take the heat, leave the kitchen and stop whining.

166. 
     Poor patient Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

     hello angrymo,

     This is not the issue of ‘you can survive then why other can’t’.

     Its about patient’s safety. Why you guy still don’t understand…….

167. 
     wonder Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

     I agree with starwars and angmo. What’s wrong with this spoilt person? You’re free to leave the profession.

168. 
     Third time and no reply, please help Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

     Hi everybody
     I’m an orthopedic surgeon got my basic medical degree (MBBch) from Egypt 1997, also Master in Orthopedic Surgery from Egypt also 2004, and then MRCS (England) 2008. I am much interested in coming and work in Singapore as I believe it has the best overseas medical system all over the world after the traditional known Us and UK medical systems, in addition to ppl’s lovely friendly attitude .
     Please can any one advise me about
     1) the best way to apply, what will be my position,
     2) expected salary, and
     3)how long it will take if I got a short listed mail till I really start work
     As all these will be of real concern regarding how I will arrange my time schedule, please urgent reply needed.

169. 
     wonder Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

     How long does it take for a typical local medicine grad to go from MO to registrar? Thanks. Cos the pay for MO is really very low man.

170. 
     angrymo Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

     Apply residency lah
     5 yrs become specialist!

171. 
     pseudonym Says:
     October 20th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

     to egyptian doc: write to hospadmin. they’re desperate to replace ungrateful always-complaining local mo’s with talented foreign docs like yourself who appreciate our “best” medical system and “pple’s friendly attitude” here. wish you good luck and welcome to singapore in advance. btw, isn’t middle east a much better place with all the oil riches?

172. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 7:04 am

     there is no guarantee that one will progress to become a specialist even if one is a MO trainnee.
     you are competing with many other medical officer trainees for a registrar’s job.
     singapore is a small place and opportunities are relatively limited, compared to bigger countries like US/Australia.

     hahahahah .. there are some deranged beings out there suggesting that some spoilt people should leave the profession if they can’t take the heat of the kitchen.

     i do look up to Dr Georgia Lee – the well known aesthetic dr in Holland road area!
     Aesthetic should be the way to go!!!
     or hospital admin!

     the long calls are getting very UNsafe in terms of patient care (ie going for 24 hour without rest). i would like to hear from some of the guys here if going without sleep for more than 24 hours is providing the safest care for our patients? want to comment? please do not tell us to leave the kitchen! providing a SAFE solution, whereby our doctors are getting ENOUGH rest so that they can care for our patients should be the way to practice medicine.

     Anyway i am off to Dempsey road tonight to have drinks! want to join in? good place to do a bitof PR for aesthetics!

173. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 9:45 am

     pls go to Dempsey, have your good rest & drink & give SGP patients your good care !!

174. 
     yespmed Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 10:21 am

     Dear Dempsey
     The new residency program ensures that one become a specialist after 5-6 years. There is no more housemanship and of course hours will be limited too.
     Can you stop scaring the general public with your fear about patient safety?
     There is now protected time for learning and rest so just do your job and stop posting in the public.

175. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 12:26 pm

     yespmed: of course who hasn’t heard of the new residency programme.
     “The new residency program ensures that one become a specialist after 5-6 years.”
     WOW! does it mean that a registrar or consultant job is guaranteed?
     right now at this moment, u and i can count how many orthopedic MO seniors/other MO trainees are still waiting for their registrar/AC jobs!
     no names will be named- and i am sure you know who these fellas are.

     Does it mean that everybody who sit and pass their FRCS exams/FRCP exams (in whatever specialty) (and make NO fatal errors during those 5 years) will become a registrar/Associate consultant/consultant in 5 -6 years ? please answer this bit of my question
     No use promising young drs trainee ships while jobs are not guaranteed

176. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pm

     plus there are days when some of us juniors can’t even take post calls

     safety issue – studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
     see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15551.php#
     let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like my detractors to answer this question for once

     so far nobody has made a direct reply to this statement “i would like to hear from some of the guys here if going without sleep for more than 24 hours is providing the safest care for our patients” – let’s hear from the floor!

177. 
     Poor patient Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 2:10 pm

     Thank Dempsey, you get my full support..

     yespmed please answer the questions.

178. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 4:58 pm

     yes, let’s go for another round of drinks at Dempsey & give SGP patients the safest care!

179. 
     curious Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 6:39 pm

     angrymo, starwars and dempsey,

     what is the % of MOs who eventually make registrar and what is the % of MOs that make consultant (specialist)?

     For those that make it, how long does it take to go from completion of housemanship to registrar?

     Thanks

180. 
     angrymo Says:
     October 21st, 2009 at 11:39 pm

     With new residency system, all residents will become specialists unless they choose to drop out.
     Residency is 5 years and there is no more housemanship.

181. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 6:39 am

     angrymo- we have all seen MOH H’s website regarding the new residency system.
     Time will tell if all residents will become specialist (and my definition is specialist with the right to private practice, ie fellas who have gone through ADVANCED TRAINING)

     you mentioned “all residents will become specialists unless they choose to drop out”
     then my question is: why are there so many MO trainees still lurking around in General Surgery and Orthopedics in any hospitals when they have passed the exams? why are they not promoted to registrars and ACs?

     so if they are specialist, does it mean that they have a right to private practice?
     The new residency system has not addressed these issues, ie the time frame to private practice

     curious in post 179″what is the % of MOs who eventually make registrar and what is the % of MOs that make consultant (specialist)?
     For those that make it, how long does it take to go from completion of housemanship to registrar?”
     This is something hospadmin has to answer.

     I do not have the data, but a quick look into each department’s list of MOs and MOTs will tell us that there are many MO trainee hopefuls who are waiting for their registrar and advanced trainee jobs.

     No use promising young doctors trainee jobs when the ADVANCED TRAINEE jobs are NOT GUARANTEED (say if someone is A SAFE DOCTOR)
     my 2 cents worth

182. 
     civilservant Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 am

     Dont be greedy drs!
     Why go to private when you can stay in public hospitals taking care of poor Singaporeans?
     The new scheme is to ensure more specialists so even if they leave public hospitals to earn money from private patients, the sheer number of trained specialists will ensure that healthcare in Singapore will remain affordable.

     You must play the right note to get promoted just like in the civil service. Doctors are known to be more arrogant and dont spend enough time playing golf and buying gifts for their bosses and the hospital administrators.
     How to get promoted if you lack EQ?

     Take care of your bosses and hospital administrators and the path will be clear!

     “No use promising young doctors trainee jobs when the ADVANCED TRAINEE jobs are NOT GUARANTEED”

     This is such a rubbish statement.
     There is only one CEO, one Prime Minister and one head of department.
     Those who read about organistation behaviour knows that limiting top jobs to selected few is one way of motivating junior employees to work hard and aim at the top.

     If we promise everyone they will be promoted, obviously they will be less motivated and become lazy.
     FYI, we are not communists and winners take all lah.

     All my yrs of bootlicking, I am not even in the elite admin service so just do your job and stop questioning us the adminstrators!

183. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 9:19 am

     civil servant – or shall bootlicker if you like to be known as that.

     “All my yrs of bootlicking, I am not even in the elite admin service so just do your job and stop questioning us the adminstrators”

     well we need to question you administrators to ensure that policies dished out by you is FAIR.
     get it.
     you administrators are only enjoying yourself in the nice air con offices.

     we doctors are greedy? hahah .. what a joke Mr Administrator.
     asking for better working conditions, ie having more protected rest .. is that greedy?

     We are expected to function the next day after a long busy night call and expected to go on with a morning ward round attending to changes.

     safety issue – studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
     see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15551.php#
     let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like CIVL SERVANT to answer this question for once – which you will not have the guts to answer

     greedy – is it greedy to ask for more rest?
     is it greedy to ask for better working conditions?

     my 2 cents worth

184. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 9:24 am

     top grade civil servants like you expect doctors AND nurses to produce gold when you only pay peanuts …
     please lahhhhh … u should get down from your ivory towers (and get paid more than S$150 k per annum) and experience what it is like to be on call.

     and stop all your ‘greedy’ name callings as i have not even spoken about pay/renumerations/money in the first place. i am only asking for better working conditions

185. 
     civilservant Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 am

     This is getting personal!

     Same pay less work = lazy
     Same pay more work = hardworking

     Btw I am not top grade civil servant and I sure dont get as much pay as you doctors.
     I am just giving advice on how to get promoted in the real world.

     This is ridiculous, getting scolded for being helpful. Doctors like dempsey sure have low EQ and I am not suprised that he is bypassed for promotion.

     Continue questioning the administration and get yourself blacklisted for all I care.

186. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 11:43 am

     civil servant (hey Mr speaker Sir – ‘civil servant’ here calls itself a bootlicker! -see post 182

     “Continue questioning the administration and get yourself blacklisted for all I care.”
     of course you do not care for you are the highly paid high and mighty civil servant who doesn’t care about us lowly mortals, ie junior doctors and nurses.

     “Btw I am not top grade civil servant and I sure dont get as much pay as you doctors.”
     liar liar pants on fire.
     You are comparing yourself with the top grade Dr like Dr Woffles Wu or the top grade Opthalmologist at SNEC lah – hahahah .. no wonder lah. top notch civil servants or admins like you are drawing at least S$150 000-200k per year – and the figures are out there on the government websites – so please no lies ok

     I am sure you get paid more than us (doctors AND nurses) – so please no lying my dear bootlicker (that is what you called yourself – see your post 182)

     i did not even mention what my gender is so you have dropped your conclusions too quickly, bootlicking civil servant

     hey civil servant, you have failed to answer this query:
     studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
     see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15551.php#
     let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like CIVL SERVANT to answer this question for once

187. 
     Poor patient Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm

     Dear civilservant,

     If you think you send your grandmother to be operated by a doctor who just post call for 24 hours is a sound and wise decision…. then i will think that you have real high EQ or even IO.

188. 
     civilservant Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm

     Not all civil servants get high pay.
     As a matter of fact, we did not get any midyear bonus this year despite working very hard to get Singapore out of a recession.

     I am just a farmer in the civil servant so my pay is nothing to show off in public. Anyway, I got to my current position because I was obedient to my boss and never questioned his judgement.

     I also have doctor friends who worked all their lives in the public hospirals who are complaining that junior doctors are not as selfless and hardworking as them in the past.

     These are some of their quotes

     “In those days when I was a houseman, I worked longer hours than you with half your pay and I have never complained even once!”

     “You should be thankful to be serving your housemanship in Singapore instead of Kuala Lumpur or Kuching!”

     “Nowadays the load is so light compared to the past and you guys (and girls) still whine so much!”

     Perhaps there may be an error in the selection of medical students such that they have no respect for their seniors and elders.

     Go whine and get blacklisted as if I care.
     If you are a female dr, then you should know how to use your gender as an advantage unless you lack you know what.

189. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 12:59 pm

     hey civil servant
     you mentioned in post 182 “All my yrs of bootlicking, I am not even in the elite admin service so just do your job and stop questioning us the adminstrators”

     civil servants like you make MORE per hour, compared to us lowly junior drs and nurses – so stop deluding yourself, calling yourself a farmer when you are a arrogant pen pusher. You are the typical administrator whose speech is ridden with arrogance.
     I bet you make S$150-200K or more per year;
     You mentioned that you earn less than doctors – well you are referring to the likes of Dr Woffles Wu/Dr Georgia Lee/Top SNEC opthalmologist then.

     Most of us junior doctors and nurses are getting paid less than what you are getting and please do not go around this forum name calling us as ‘greedy’ (see your posting in 182) when we are only asking for BETTER working conditions and I have not brought in the pay issue in all my post.

     you in your arrogant postings mentioned
     “These are some of their quotes
     “In those days when I was a houseman, I worked longer hours than you with half your pay and I have never complained even once!”
     “You should be thankful to be serving your housemanship in Singapore instead of Kuala Lumpur or Kuching!”

     Does it mean that we are always going to be stuck in the Victorian ages?
     societies need to advance. all health care providers deserve not to be sleep deprived when they are looking after their patients.
     Even SQ pilots have their fair share of rest when they have completed a long shift.

     civil servants / boot lickers (that is what you called yourself in post 182) only sit in their air con office enjoying long tea and lunch breaks while you expect us health care providers (junior drs and nurses) to sweat it out without recognition of our hard work, calling us LAZY and GREEDY.
     We hardly get much rest after a 30 hour call and you as a highly paid $150k per annum admin refuse to address this issue.

     You have failed to answer my query “studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
     see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15551.php#
     let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like CIVL SERVANT to answer this question for once

     deep down in your conscience, you know the answer and good luck if your loved one is going to be operated/taken care of by a dr who has just done a 30 hour shift – nobody in their right mind in this forum will have any sympathy for you

190. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 1:50 pm

     To dempsey
     It is unbecoming of a doctor to talk like that.
     Why so bitter?
     Why join medicine when all you care about is yourself and not the patient you serve?
     I think you should get married if you are still single and quit medicine so that you don’t lower the morale of your hardworking colleagues.

     To civil servant
     I appologise on behalf on dempsey. It seems that she is all burnt out and is sprouting nonsense. Please don’t take it on us doctors and dont pursue the matter anymore.

191. 
     adiemuso Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 pm

     this is a joke.

     wake up please. this is the real world. if you are not happy with your current situation. quit.

     the door is wide open.

     if not, grind hard, work towards the top. and when you are there, for all the altruism that you have been espousing, change the conditions such that its “safe” and bridge the pay difference between admin n common docs.

     otherwise, we take it that you are venting your frustrations at work here.

192. 
     gloater Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 pm

     Dempsey, that civil servant here is just a farmer. Not the elites in civil service and can you not start getting all excited over nothing? duh.. As a doctor, i’m sure chances are, you came from a ‘toppish’ JC. How many SAFOS, SPFOS and OMS are there a year? Not many. The ones you knew from school, are about already 50% of the ones in your year. And yes there are few of them.

     You’re behaving in a thoroughly obnoxious and unbecoming manner for a ‘doctor’. This is one of the many reasons why I will never consider sending my kids to NUS to end up like that, the inferior education there aside. Farmer school produces farmers like you, even doctors also farmer and farmer like behaviour and attitude.

     That’s why I’ve set up a fund to finance my children to Harvard and Cambridge.

     The geniuses and young billionaires who invented Microsoft, Yahoo, Paypal, Ebay and Facebook, myspace, etc all came up with them while they were students in Harvard, Stanford, etc. None of the farmers in any of the local ‘universities’ has ever done anything remarkable ever in their lives. The only thing they can do is repeat stuff, due to the limited intellectual capacity.

     You are proof of why local university graduates are losers.

193. 
     DrSociety Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 pm

     sgdr,gloater, adiemuso: Dr Dempsey has opened up a pandora’s box ; civil servant attempts to to spar with her and bad mouth her in this forum which is a knee jerk reaction (naturally) , this proves that what she is saying is far from being fake and the truth always hurts.

     Dr Dempsey – spot on. Bingo. you have hit indeed hit the bulls eye.

     Dr Dempsey had brought up issues of lack of rest after a 30 hour shift and she is naturally worried that a doctor with insufficient rest is at risk of mismanaging patients and I do totally agree with her (just like poor patient in 187)

     Is this bullocks from Dr Dempsey – no .

     Dr Dempsey I salute you for your courage to bring up these unsavoury practices here in this forum and i am glad that in this day and age, we have a medium to hear all view points. keep the post rolling fellas.

194. 
     farmgoat Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 10:16 pm

     You need to set a “fund” to finance a top education for your kids? Way to go man, but chances are you are a farmer yourself, and there’s high probability your elitist kids in future will be ashamed to be associated with you and your farmer mentality and your (undeserving) superiority complex.

195. 
     Are GLCs Better Paymasters Than MNCs? | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore Says:
     October 22nd, 2009 at 11:01 pm

     [...] some doctors and administrators are having a friendly debate, I would like to bring your attention to another interesting [...]

196. 
     funny Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 9:28 am

     Different Civil Servant lah

197. 
     rashid Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 10:00 am

     I think as a dr with just 7 years xperience, i totally understood what dempsey was trying to say. When you are doing night calls attending to some 30-40 NEW cases alone in the night, sooner or later you will feel that your soul belongs to the hospital and that you’re a slave of that hospital, added to that are angry relatives who have waited a long time in the A/E and some more for you to come to the bedside to clerk the patients. It can just push you to the limit. What you want to see is only daylight and it does not stop there, the morning shift senior drs may sometimes call and scold you for not doing certain things. After all that you still have to work another 6-7 hours. But that’s all in the past for me. I’m now a locum GP working whenever I want and whoever I want. So advice – if you dont want to climb that ladder- get out and be a locum – people appreciate you more !

198. 
     prof Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 10:08 am

     I agree with Rashid.
     If you can not take the training, leave the profession.
     There are many people waiting to take over you.
     In my time, we work much harder for less and my position today does not come easily.

     We do need to filter out unsuitable drs like dempsey in future.
     She must have lied to get into medical school.

199. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 10:26 am

     Can anybody here enlighten me if this statement is false: studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
     see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15551.php#
     let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr. Now Prof/Sgdr/adeiuso – what are your answers? True or false

     Times have changed professor. You cannot expect health care providers, ie the lowly junior doctors and nurses to be your machines.
     You cannot expect someone who is worn out to be operating on your beloved ones and not make any errors – as simple as that.
     We need to be in line with the health care practices of the developed nations – as we aim to be a medical hub in the region.
     So why are we striving for SAFE working practices for our junior doctors?
     Even a SQ pilot is mandated to have sufficient rest after a long haul flight!

     When the civil servant here is doing all the name callings, ie “GREEDY”, some medicos here choose to sell out the interest of their fellow juniors and I have not even spoken out about pay matters/renumerations.

     Where abouts in my posts have I mentioned that I am not putting my patients’ interest ahead of myself? WHERE? Please point out to me.
     Have I said anything unethical?
     In the US/Australia/UK, no junior doctors are allowed to work beyond a 12 hour shift and why are we not adopting these practices like them? – and we aim to be a medical hub ! hahahah .. what a joke …

200. 
     Poor patient Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 am

     I think most medical student who enter medical school with good intention to serve the community and care for patient.

     But like most doctor in this region will enventually end up to become the slave of healthcare system run by hosp admin.

     It is not fair for you to say this, prof. Doctor never promise to sell their soul to the system. If you provide good and safe working environment to doctor, they will take care of your patient because i believe this is what they want to do.

     But if you provide the crap environment. Then sorry la, everyone will protest. Don’t talk about those day. Last time, i believe only few of your friends will earn more than you and gain more respect from the society. But now, most of our friends become banker and engineer, can they have easy life, earn more than you, marry and wife happy. People compare, prof and don’t just live in past. Everyone have family and so with doctor..

     If hosp admin really study organisation behavior he should have know that punishment of employees will just reduce employee job satisfaction thus reduce morale and job performance. Studies show that motivation work much better than punishment.. But now, all of doctor who read the writting from Hosp admin and civil servant will get depress and angry, i believe..

201. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm

     Actually I think hosp admin is very nice and is proactive in helping to reduce manpower shortage in Singapore.
     It is my fellow doctors that are too negative about recruiting foreign doctors to Singapore as they are afraid they compete with them for traineeship position.

     What civil servant said is true also to a large extent as EQ is very impt to get selected as a trainees. I only managed to get traineeship by doing what my boss ask me to do without questioning.
     I doubt Dempsey will ever be a trainee from the way she rebut Prof who I assume to be a senior doctor in Singapore.

     Life is getting better as a doctor in Singapore because of MOHH relentless recruitment of foreign doctors. Last I heard, they flew to UK, Australia, India and even Taiwan to get good doctors to join us.

     Let us welcome these foreign doctors so that our local doctors will not need to work so hard and be burnt out like dempsey, slave of medicine.

202. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm

     sgdr and prof
     i notice that you choose to avoid answering this question: studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
     see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/15551.php#
     let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr. Now Prof/Sgd – what are your answers? True or false

     deep down in your conscience, you know the obvious answer.

     me not getting traineeship! hahaha …. i will never give away my demographics .. no matter how much u try to provoke me.

     i have never even brought up the issue of foreign doctors so please do not TWIST my words here on this forum.

     but i have to stress that I always put my patients’ interest first! and a sleepy head doctor will never be able to manage his/her patients well, compared to a fresh headed doctor.
     I do not understand why some elements here get upset when I bring up the better working conditions/better hours/ STRIVE FOR BETTER PATIENT Care issues in this forum. The issue of renumerations/payment has never been brought up by me here

     you, civil servant, prof should go and reflect what poor patient had said in post 200.

     i will be having drinks and dinner at my usual haunt at Dempsey tonight at ???? restaurant/cafe

     plus there are people here on this forum who agree with me (non doctors included)
     and by the way, I did not profess to be Dr Bootlicker/please everybody …

     me burnt out???? huh? someone obviously has forgotten his haloperidol!

203. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 pm

     engineers are even more overworked & underpaid than dempsey, maybe same for civil servant too.

204. 
     Poor patient Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 2:35 pm

     ya i think we can agree that hosp admin is very nice in doing his job and helping to reduce manpower shortage. But his mentality (not what he is doing probably) of treating doctor just likes a piece of machine is terrible.

     In corporate, executive and managers is treated like human being and employer respect that everyone has life and family. I think hosp admin need to do more for lifesaver like doctor. If doctor fail and patient life endangered, Hosp admin should be blame. However most of the time who will get sued and blame, you think yourself. Only the front line people will understand I believe.

     In operational management, more than 80% of error is from the system. System fail then people fail. so i think more think have to be done to people who design and run the system.

     frontline people… agree with me???

205. 
     Poor patient Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 pm

     So hospital admin should just do your job and recruite more doctor… don’t come and blame doctor again and agian.

206. 
     prof Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 3:17 pm

     Dear dempsey
     You think you are so smart quoting from 1 paper done in US and expect us to change our system because of that 1 paper?

     Do YOU know what is internal and external validity.
     http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/347/16/1249

     Go read the original paper.
     It has been more difficult to prove that sleep deprivation impairs clinical performance. Most, but not all, studies show impaired performance of clinically relevant, although artificial, tasks.

     Many of these studies have had serious methodologic flaws.

     If I have taken you for the final MBBS, I will definitely have fail you for being so rude and arrogant.

     Pls see psy if you have some problem coping in the system. Stop making a fool of yourself in this public forum

     Regards

207. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pm

     Well said Prof
     Dempsey must have committed some medical error and is trying to use lack of sleep as an excuse.

     http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26041957-1248,00.html
     SIX cups of coffee – that’s the State Government antidote to sleep-deprived doctors killing and harming their patients in a haze of exhaustion

     U want shorter hours, you must be prepared to train longer.
     Only know how to whine.
     Wonder whether you are a real doctor or someone who is pretending to be one.

     Maybe it is a mistake to allow more females to enter medical school. Medicine requires life long committment and is not a part time job for tai tai!

208. 
     Gerald Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 4:02 pm

     Since we’re on the topic of overworked doctors (and very far off topic regarding salaries , check out this article in this month’s SMA News:
     12 Angry People
     http://news.sma.org.sg/4109/Angry.pdf
     It’s funny, in a sad,too-close-to-the-heart sort of way…

     I think the topic of long working hours has been well-covered in both the popular press and the medical journals. A medline search should turn up numerous articles. The overall evidence supports the view that overworked doctors make more mistakes.

     It is also worth nothing, that Europe has, as of 1 Aug 09, imposed a 48 hour per week limit on junior doctors working hours. (Ref: European Working Time Directive).

209. 
     Renter Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm

     I am not a doctor but AS A PATIENT I would prefer my doctor to be fresh and not suffer from any sleep deprivation. From what sgdr is saying it appears that 6 cups of coffee is the antidote to tiredness, etc. In fact it sounds like it can replace sleep!! Perhaps Dempsey sounds a bit whiny but you sounded like a slave driver too: work, work, work, if the patient dies due to our mistakes, we’ll just hide it and life goes on!! That seems to be the attitude of hospital admins/senior doctors nowadays

210. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pm

     To renter

     That is a serious accusation that you are making against us. We dont cover up medical mistakes and errant doctors/nurses/allied staff are punished.

     6 cups of coffee is suggested by Queensland government and not by me.
     I am just pointing out that long training hours are not unique to Singapore only and it is needed so that junior doctors can be properly trained.

     Nowadays, we have to arrange teaching sessions in the morning and lunch time as junior doctor are nowhere to be seen after office hours. Last time, we stayed till 10 pm everyday. Now, junior doctor expect overtime pay if we ask them to stay beyond office hours.
     Worse still, they drive bigger and better cars than their seniors. Wonder where their money come from and I do agree that doctors are mainly from rich family and are acting like spoilt brat.

211. 
     don't need sleep Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 4:35 pm

     Docs, learn from this man who’s not slept in 34 years.

     http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml

     From the employer’s perpective, this is the ideal employee: the one who never sleeps. Eventually, s/he doesn’t even pee or poop. Well, Thai Ngoc, a 64-year-old Vietnamese man, does pee and poop, but does not sleep. He is famous for being awake for 33 years or 11,700 nights, as informed by the Vietnamese news organization Thanh Nien.

     At the moment, Ngoc does not display any apparent health effect (of course, except for the fact that he cannot sleep). The most amazing fact is that the man’s brain seems not to be affected by his condition, and the individual is mentally normal and carries 100kg of pig feed down a 4km road. “I don’t know whether the insomnia has impacted my health or not. But I’m still healthy and can farm normally like others,” said Ngoc.

     “My husband used to sleep well, but these days, even liquor cannot put him down. When Ngoc went to Da Nang for a medical examination, doctors gave him a clean bill of health, except a minor decline in liver function.” explained his wife.

     Ngoc currently has his 5ha farm at the foot of a mountain and he is busy farming and taking care of pigs and chickens all day long. He lives with his six children at their house in Que Trung. The sleepless nights allow Ngoc to do extra farm work or guard his farm at night against thieves. “I used three months of sleepless nights to dig two large ponds to raise fish.”, said Ngoc.

     His condition installed following a bout of fever experienced by Ngoc in 1973. Still, in April, 2007, Ngoc reported that he was starting to feel grumpy due to the lack of sleep. This condition is extremely odd as animal experiments showed that they die sooner of sleep deprivation than they do from lack of food, as sleep is an imperative metabolic need.

     During sleep, the body enters in a predominantly anabolic phase, when it develops, grows, heals and builds muscle; the immune system is at its peak (that’s why, when we’re ill, we wake up without the cold). While sleeping, many organs, and especially the brain, re-fuel (in the case of the brain with glucose).

     Now, many substances (including hormones) reach the peak of their secretion, the nervous synapses are rebuilt, and the long-term memories are strengthened. The growth hormone (somatotrope) acts only during the night, determining the growth of young people. Only during the sleep do the tissues assimilate proteins and fat (so, avoid eating fat-rich food before a good night’s sleep!).

212. 
     DrSociety Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 5:52 pm

     there are different view points in this forum and there is no need to belittle anyone.

     Sgdr had quoted the queensland government’s directive, but this directive has not been approved at the Federal level in Canberra.
     I do suggest that you refer to the Australian Medical Association link
     http://www.ama.com.au/node/4051 and read Judge Richards findings before the Queensland Health Tribunal.

213. 
     drguru Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 6:04 pm

     this is Singapore, not Australia. we do things differently here, as we always do. we believe in elitism and gungho-ism. welfare and well-being are low in our list. now get back to work.

214. 
     DrSociety Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm

     Elitism – wow, that means we have to start churning out more cosmetic surgeons/aesthetic drs who grace the pages of Tattler Magazine! yes yes yes -

215. 
     drguru Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm

     Yep, money talks. Copied from above:

     Manpower Minister Dr Ng Eng Hen once said “You’re getting a bargain for the ministers you get… I worked half as much and earn(ed) five times more when I was in the private sector.” (Channelnewsasia, 9 September 2003)

216. 
     Kippot Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm

     what a colourful thread.

217. 
     Kevin Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 6:45 pm

     Dempsey,

     I think if all doctors are overworked and makes mistakes, then there should be a lot of accidental deaths reported. Also, if the effect is not immediate death but longer term ill health, you would also expect that there’s some effect to the overall lifespan of Singaporeans, which does not seem to be the case. The sad fact is neither of these lend weight to your arguments.

     If we assume the study to be true about making more mistakes with less sleep, then it must mean that the mistake has little noticeable ill-effect to the patients.

218. 
     underworked dr Says:
     October 23rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

     it’s typical human nature not to take preemptive measures until something goes wrong, like the commando torture incident. so going by your logic, there’s nothing wrong at all and maybe the hosps should work the drs even harder to make it more value for money for the patients, more profitable for the hosps and better reputation for sg as a medical hub! work ‘em harder. yee haw!

219. 
     don Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 1:47 am

     Dempsey and everyone esle

     relax lar…i understand ur frustration..but you dont need to fight till the end..everyone loses u get what i mean?

     i understand ur problem lar, but whining does not solve the problem. as some of them have said, if u cant take it, drop out and be a GP. or move to another country. no one force u to stay in sg for advance training, its ur own decision.

     in my opinion, its really the work culture in sg. even if ur a lawyer, or accoutnant, or any other professional, you need to undergo intense training to fulfill obligations to the profession you are serving. we are talking about human lives here..medicine is all about gainng exposure through variety of cases. i understand the long debated problems of snr doc farking young docs and the overworked culture, but seeing it from another angle, u get to train well and learn alot. as they say, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

     i understand your frustration, there are many problems, not only in healthcare, but in sg society in general. lawyers work past midnight to meet deadlines, doctors work 30 hours shift.its crazy i know but this is sg for you. the bottom ladder is always the steepest and the toughest..but the rewards are there for you to reap should you overcome it and become a specialist one day.

     jiayou..

220. 
     Kippot Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 8:10 am

     keep them rolling

221. 
     Kippot Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 8:12 am

     It is great to hear a variety of view points from the floor.
     as what Don has said above, the bottom ladder is always the steepest and toughest.
     If you are not happy with the system here, you should consider a move overseas for your Advanced Training. I am not sure what your status is now.
     as what someone has said above, you must be from a top local JC.

     If you are smart enough to get into NUS, you would also possess enough intellectual capacity to sit for USMLE/Australian Medical Council Exams/GMC exams. I do personally know of a number of NUS grads who have passed the Australian Medical Council exams and they have never looked back. So the ball lies in your court Dr Dempsey – go and sit for the AMC exams and proof it to us!

222. 
     Kippot Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 8:15 am

     There are a number of Singaporean and Malaysian Doctors who have fitted quite well in the Australian medical system and some of them are filthy (sic) rich from their medical practice and investments.
     The typical salary range for a salaried hospital CMO (career medical officer which is equivalent to the Singaporean resident physician) is around A$250, 000 per year (you will prob end up with A$180 000 after tax or S$224k based on today’s exchange rates). A GP in a busy practice here in suburban sydney can easy make around A$ 300, 0000 a year whereas a general physician can make around A$500-700k.
     Getting into ‘hot’ specialities in Australia can be tough (eg Eye/ENT/Skin). Be prepared to suck up to your supervisors as what sg dr has done!

     a doctor who works 30 hours straight is literally walking away with toto money! (some CMO jobs will pay A$120 per hour)

     But if you don’t mind doing physician training (you don’t need to sit for AMC exams if you intend to do physician training) you can easily walk into a job now!
     Queensland State – lots of jobs there. Singaporean doctors are very well regarded in Australia – thanks to Singapore’s excellent brandname

223. 
     kev Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

     why does everybody get so upset when one chabo here just brings up the subject of being overworked!
     no need to get so irritable lah. life goes on.

     foreign talent bagus ok …… hey we should get FT to do sg dr , prof and dr dempsey’s job! wow, that means prof and dr dempsey in 10 years time will cakap like Foreign talent huh

224. 
     angrymo Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

     Hey kev
     Why are you so against foreign drs?
     We leave our family and come to Singapore to take care of Singaporean patients who are ungrateful and spoilt.

     We are treated like second class doctors in Singapore and we have to work harder just to be equal to a local graduate.

     Our pay is about the same and we are also given conditional registration only.

     When we were recruited, we were promised the sky but in reality we were given hell.

     Stop criticizing us or soon there will be no foreign drs doing shit work in a and e and nursing home.

     Meritocracy my foot!

225. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

     foreign dr bagus …. jagan main main (don’t pray pray).

     mereka doktor asing bagus! without me, dr dempsey , dr prof, dr sgdr all takuttttt!!!!

     aiyohhhhhhhhhhhh .. relax brother abang!

226. 
     yeah Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

     farmgoat, yeah of course chances are I’m a farmer to since there are so many of these NUS/NTU/SMU farmers running loose in society compared to the elites.

     It must hurt and sting your farmer sensibilities that given the low odds of getting a PSC scholarship, so many farmers out there would shelf their intentions of landed properties and subject themselves to a life of austerity, if it means their children can attend Yale, Cambridge, Stanford and MIT and be free from the mental and intellectual deprivation thats been wrought on the like of you farmers.

227. 
     kambingsop Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

     aiyoh … farmer kaya you know! farmers are not peasants lah.

     yeah why don’t you get your children to attend Towner special school – veli veli hao3 you know!!! good for your children …. hey i think your kids are attending it, if i didn’t get it wrong
     yeah! yeah ! yeah!

228. 
     IT Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

     to prof, a court order or MOH can track down the identity of Dempsey through salary.sg easily. Who cares about demographic?

229. 
     Ivy Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

     hahaha when is farmer ever not peasant?! farmer here needs to brush up her english. Yeah it must hurt lah. so many people look down on you. even farmers don’t want their kids to be farmers hahhaahah!

230. 
     yeah Says:
     October 24th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

     Slave to medicine aka dempsey said this “Whether or not you are a singaporean, it doesnt matter. As long as you are a NUS reject or non-NUS grad, you are considered as a foreign doctor.”

     She is deluded. Does she really think that a Cambridge medicine grad would deign to go to NUS? Wake up la. 90% of the medicine students I know back in JC aspired to go to top UK medicine schools like Cambridge and Imperial. Many turned down NUS med places and forced their parents to send them to Cambridge and Imperial. Those who ENDED UP in NUS went there begrudgingly and reluctantly, only because it is cheap.

231. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 25th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

     I’m a current final year student in nus med. Having just experienced a student internship posting where we shadow and mirror houseofficers in their work, i have to agree that working long hours, doing the calls are indeed hazardous.

     Doctors need to be fresh at all times to be able to harvest the all needed cognition they have in their brains to think, decide and treat their patients. Many times during night calls i have experienced so far, i find myself whoozing off into automatic robot mode, where i ask standard questions in history taking and fill up the clerking sheet like a robot. I try my best, however, to tailor to the needs of each and every patient that i see.

     I’m sure those who work in the field of medicine have their altruism in them. However, it is difficult to harnest that altruism when you have 36 patients every night, and you being the frontline lone fella who’s gotta deal with the investigations, contacting your seniors, dealing with angry and worried relatives, and rendering first dose of medications all at the same time. it doesn’t help too that sometimes, you don’t get enough support from other staff like the nurses at times. I just finished my student internship from hospital X. I have recalled over 12 cases where i’ve ordered my first dose antibiotics and first dose antidiuretics to be given and nurses did not proceed to giving these doses beside me calling and telling them personally countless of times. 3 of these patients went into high dependency wards, 2 went into ICU cos they went into HBS sepsis and fluid overload cos these medications weren’t served!

     Hospital adminstrators and those who aren’t in medicine have got to that there’s a difference in being a doctor, treating patients and working in a organization. We want to treat patients, but i’m sure most of us won’t want to work in an organization who doesn’t take care of its staff well. Altruism doesn’t feed your stomach. It’s meals and rice which does. If you don’t pay your docs enough, most of them eventually will leave the public sector. Some docs however, are able to live with just altruism alone. DON’T expect ALL to be the same, cos we are just human and everyone has different thresholds.

     Secondly, every one, including docs, bankers, lawyers, whatever have life goals. You don’t label them as ‘greedy’ whenever one leaves into private practice. docs are humans and are just exposed to the whole spectrum of diseases that others can get in their lifetime. Surgeons who stand in the operating theatre more than 10 hours a day will definitely soon have OA of knees, hips and spinal probs. Some of them leave cos of health problems. Others want more family time. We are just human. Are you to say that these ppl who left for the private sector to want just a bit of what humanity has for them to be greedy?

     Finally, if you need ppl to be slaves in your medical organization, pls do tell that to the prospective students who come across you during your interviews every year for med school. We want to treat our patients, properly, safely and dearly. Not be slaves in the system.

232. 
     homework Says:
     October 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

     dear Realisticstudent, you mean you didn’t know about the hardships at the time you joined medicine? you didn’t do your homework!

233. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 25th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

     well it’s not that i didn’t do my homework. i did and i expected. Like my moniker, lets be realistic. i can safely say all of us didn’t sign up to be slaves in a healthcare organization. We want to be doctors, we want to help patients, we want to fulfill our altruistic ideals to a certain extent. We sign up to work in a sector, where allied health professionals are supposed to cooperate, but sad to say, i have yet to see much cooperation. Nurses do their own things, ppl do their own things. No wonder so many ppl complain about public hospitals. Do you see complains about service in the private hospitals?

     Who benefits at the end of the day if we are overworked? Patients? My illustration has already proven that they don’t.

     if you think being in HD or ICU is no joke. Let’s see you next time admitted in these wards and let’s see how much hospital bills you can chalk up with just a couple of days stay.

234. 
     sgnurse Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 12:24 am

     What a rude student accusing us nurses of not doing our work!
     You think we so free to play facebook game like the NUH nurse during office hours.
     You are just a bloody student and you are already showing the arogance of a bloody doctor.
     Please give us our due respect and stop blaming us for not giving medicine.
     The nurses involved may be busy with other patients.
     Go give yr own medicines if you are so smart.

     Please be more humble next time as nurses save your asses.

235. 
     dempsey Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 10:05 am

     Dear Admin/Editor
     I am sorry for causing grief to people here on this forum and I wish to apologise to you, them and everybody here, ie prof and others. I was naturally upset when others were taunting and insulting me.
     I wish to withdraw from this forum and please delete my previous postings. I would want to get on with my life and have nothing to do with this forum anymore.
     Regards
     D

236. 
     civilservant Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

     Dear Dempsey
     I accept your appology and wish you well in your future career.
     Please be assured that we will not take your behaviour in the forum during your posting assessment as long as you dont sprout nonsense in future.

     Regards

237. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

     Hi admin,
     can you please delete Dempsey posting so that she does not damage the reputation of Singapore healthcare system anymore.

     May I suggest that certain “unsuitable” postings not be posted in the public so that salary.sg does not get into trouble with the law.

238. 
     to sgdr Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

     i’m not admin, but can you kindly elaborate what’s wrong with the stuff Dempsey wrote? is it slanderous or untruthful or both? is it illegal to share her own experiences and her opinions in a public forum? how does her comment “damage” the reputation of our healthcare system? don’t forget that she’s not the only one who faces the problem she highlighted.

     is it right to shut people up and hint about threats when you do not agree with what they say?

     what if dempsey wrote to the ST Forum? will that make her claims hold more weight?

     finally, why would salary.sg get into trouble with the law? it’s doing a good public service to bring to light so much valuable information!

239. 
     sgdr Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 5:51 pm

     http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?actno=REVED-213&doctitle=OFFICIAL%20SECRETS%20ACT&date=latest&method=part&sl=1

     Under the offical Secret Act, public servants should not speak to the public unless permission given by their superior.

240. 
     to sgdr Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

     have you been given permission by your superior?

241. 
     to sgdr Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

     ok, seriously, you cite the fear-inducing Official Secrets Act, which says “… If any person having in his possession or control any secret official code word, countersign or password, or any photograph, drawing, plan, model, article, note, document or information…”

     Do you mean that doctors lacking sleep is an official state secret?! What crap…

     And after reading the boring OSA from top to bottom, I couldn’t find any clause that says anything close to what you claim: “public servants should not speak to the public unless permission given by their superior”.

     Are you trying to mislead and induce fear, or should I brush up on my law and legalese interpretation?

     We as a society already have more than our fair share of mindless and spineless citizens who are forever fearful of speaking up. We are brought up in a culture of being bullied into a corner and keeping mum about injustice and unfair treatment. I surely hope our children don’t grow up to be like us. How about you, sgdr?

242. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

     to sgnurse:

     Darn you are right. In the end, after all that i’ve experienced, when my patients went into HD and ICU, i made sure not to trust the nurses to follow the orders in the IMR.

     And yes, from that incident onwards, i administered the drugs myself.

     All this just speaks for itself. We don’t get enough support from the ground staff. Your reply, in all it’s hostility and whatever malicious intent you are trying to put forth, just shows that nurses aren’t that cooperative with other healthcare workers. Especially in that hospital X.

243. 
     starwars Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

     hahah..all you people screaming your heads off about working so hard etc etc…why???
     if you want to make it to the top, you got to put in the hours. i have said this before and i will say it again.
     there is no free lunch.

     so what if you are tired? if you screw up, you think the law courts will forgive you? you think the patients you forgive you?
     you think the MDU will side you for “being tired?” do you really think that they care at all?

     its part and parcel of becoming a specialist. and this happens everywhere, lawyer, engineer, banker eetc etc.

     if you want it bad enough, you will do what it takes. and i have done it and i wanted it bad enough. at this point, no one is forcing anyone to work like this. if you dont want to, just leave. go elsewhere. no big deal.

     you think MOH really cares if so many surgeons leave for private practise? of cos not. just will just employ more.

     so what is my point :

     1. if you want it bad enough, you will do what it takes.
     2. there are tons of pple out there willing to take your place…and MOH will gladly employ them
     3. dont focus on the money first….thats the way it is. the only focus as a junior MO is to get the training which you require. and only MAYBE, you will be able to rise up the ladder.

     is this fair? of cos not. but then, who ever said life was fair?

     why can i say all of this? cos i have gone thru it. from medical student to houseman, to MO, MOS, Rregistrar, AC, C and finally to private practise specialist. life was always fighting to get to the top.

     at the end of this, all i can say is that no one really cares if you suffer hardships or not. cos if you cant take it, leave. tons of others will take your place.

     did i suffer? of cos i did.
     all pple see now is the glamour the glory fame and money…no one saw the toils, the sweat the tears the pain….the years of humiliation,. being grabbed by the collar and being shouted at : ” you obviously dont know what the hell you are doing!” or being told in front of the entire audience : you are talking rubbish…..etc etc etc. i can go on and go.

     or the 15 calls a month…
     doing the 3 day 2 night camp in hospital. staying in hospital on saturday morning and going home on ly on monday night at 11pm.

     sigh..those were the days. i was having nightmares for about 2 years even after completing some of my postings.. scary…dunno if i can really go through all of that again.

     anyhow : all you guys stop complaining and starting working. if you have to do tons of calls, so be it. it adds to your training. so that you will be forced to make decisions on your own. as a doctor, you will have to make the call. and unless you go through years and years of training, you will not not cut it.

     and if you dont like it, then leave. there will be tons of others who will take your place. so if yyou want it, fight for it. no one will give it to you. dont expect it, and no one deserves it.

     ok ….time to go for surgery…..
     this guy from overseas fractured his
     1. nasal bone
     2. 4th to 7th ribs with lung contusion, and fat embolism
     3. comminuted right humerus
     4. comminuted left humerus
     5. scapula wing fracture
     6. left radius and ulna
     7. sacral alar fractures
     8. pubic rami fractures
     9. right femur mid shaft
     10. left femur (segmental)

     hahah..all in days work. why can i handle all of this now? cos i used to do it as a registrar in the restructured hospitals…so handling his case nnow? ….no big deal…i used to do such cases last time…operate for 20hrs non stop. madness, but if i didnt, i certainly cant do it now..certainly not in pte practise.

     so everyone quit complaining..and go and do your calls. and if you get well trained, look me up. i need very well trained surgeons to replace me and take over my practise.

     starwars

244. 
     starwars Says:
     October 26th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

     also: please dont say anything about nurses!!
     they are the ones who saved my skin countless number of times. they are the ones, who can make your life easy or make it difficult. they are the ones who taught me as a junior doctor what to do. the nurses nowdays are not of yesterday. they are well trained, intelligent and have a whole lot of responsibilities. many of them function as medical officers in private practise…except for the dispensing of medications, they do a whole lot.

     so the junior MO;s here : lets have respect for the nurses ok? we need them as much as they need us.

245. 
     nypstudent Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 8:53 am

     Well said starwars

     I am a nursing student in NYP and I feel like docs often talk down to my seniors in the hospitals.

     This is undesireable as nurses are now highly educated and have degrees as well as masters. We are as educated if not more educated that junior doctors that just pass out from medical school.

     We have more ward experiences and often speak to families when doctors are skiving in the MO’s room or taking prolonged lunch breaks.

     I hope docs dont treat as as their maids and treat us as their equals. In general female doctors treat nurses badly but some male doctors are very nice to us and often treat us with good food.

     I think the females are jealous of us as generally we are better looking and more considerate compared to them. Obviously we make better wives compared to them.

246. 
     nurse2 Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 10:44 am

     dear nypstudent, well said. wish you all the best in your nursing career.

247. 
     insider Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

     The Official Secrets Act (OSA) only applies to information that are considered secret, or classified.

     Besides the OSA, there is an official blanket rule disallowing ALL public and civil servants (those in the know will know the difference between the two) from speaking in a public space on government policies concerning them or otherwise, whether OR NOT they identify themselves (it’s worse if they do), on an UNOFFICIAL capacity.

     Which means the only time a public or civil servant is allowed to speak in public space on government policies is when he or she is speaking in his or her approved official capacity

248. 
     to insider Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

     dear insider, is it a criminal offence to violate that blanket rule? or is it a clause in the employment contract?

     how about those teachers who wrote to the newspapers? i know sometimes they wrote under the guise of their relatives and spouses.

     and worse, how about those teachers who blog about everything including their worklife, personal life and commentary on government policies.

     so now we know, thou shalt not criticize or even speak about government policies.

     sigh, how are we going to teach our children to be thinking adults? hmm… “son, i’m going to teach you about critical thinking, BUT never talk about this, about that, blah blah blah, oh, i think it’s better for you not to think at all!”

249. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

     To starwars:

     Firstly, it is time to advance. Gone are the days where we can put up with your 15 calls per month etc. Your attitude speaks very well of the old generation. “if it’s on your plate, just suck it up. Can’t suck it, suck thumb lah!” that’s the kind of top-down approach you are implying in your message.

     The population in singapore has became more demanding. Patients come to you with their googled stuff from the net. Does that happen to you in the past? More and more court cases against med docs. DEFINITELY more than your generation. And you still want the docs today to put up with crazy calls, putting their careers and their patients’ lives on the line?

     You mentioned about the traumatic experience. Why was there a need to go thru that? is that the ONLY way where you can gain clinical acumen? If you think that’s the only way, i feel sad for you cos the only thing you’ve gained so far from all your experience is tunnel-vision, narrow-mindedness and rigidity. Ppl leave the public sector not just for fame and money. They want to lead their own lifestyle, they want work-life balance, they want more time to spend with their families. They want more time to watch their kids grow. You may or may not have a family. If you have, start counting the number of hours you have spent with your kids per year. If you don’t, has grandma/mum got older without you even knowing?

     What kind of docs do singaporeans want ultimately? Docs who can communicate well with them, who know their culture well or an overseas doc who speaks in an accent, who knows no dialect? I’ve done my student internship programme, i’ve seen foreign docs struggle with communication problems. I’ve got patients who only wanted to talk to me instead of my houseofficer from sri lanka who speaks in a heavy indian accent and who doesn’t know chinese culture.

250. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

     to nypstudent:

     i think you should rewrite your statements. MOs skiving in the MO room? We write our discharge summaries, and do our orders on the computer system mind you.

     STOMP has written that NUH nurses do facebook while working. I wonder whether any of your statements actually hold water.

     Secondly, about breaks. Every now and then in the wards, i hear nurses talking about taking breaks. Some sit on the table tops on the nursing counter chit-chatting, while my O2 sats was not even taken for my patient who’s desaturating.

     If you want to criticise and think so highly of your occupation, i think you should pull up your socks and look at your peers first before you point fingers at others. I’ve illustrated clearly in my previous posts how nurses forgot to administer medicines even when we ordered them.

     if you can’t even carry out your occupation competently, why do you even deserve your job or your nursing diploma for that matter?

251. 
     starwars Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

     to realistic student :

     time to advance? well well. lots of things change.but training doesnt. it takes time and u got to put in the hours.

     dont tell me about this older generation please. i am not that old. but old enough to know that u need to put in the hours. if you cant, dont. no one is forcing you to.

     what to do ? it was a traumatic experience then for me. i guess many wont have to go throught that now. but many dont get that kind of training.

     as for me? i dont regret a moment of it looking back.
     and i would give the same advice to the current group of medical officers and registrars.

     for your info: i employ surgeons/and MO’s to work for me in private practise in mt e.

     starwars

252. 
     starwars Says:
     October 27th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

     you know why there are more and more cases against docs? lack of practise and lack of communication.

     thats the major reason.

     do more calls.
     get more training.

253. 
     To to insider Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 12:12 am

     quote “dear insider, is it a criminal offence to violate that blanket rule? or is it a clause in the employment contract?”

     Its not a criminal offence. It is a policy within the civil service for all public servants (armed forces and police) and civil servants (civilian public servants). Do you mean something is only enforced when it is a ‘criminal offence’? i can assure you it’s not.

     quote “how about those teachers who wrote to the newspapers? i know sometimes they wrote under the guise of their relatives and spouses.”

     oh, thanks for the tip. If they are shrewd enough to do that, then i guess they can’t be caught. even if caught, they can’t be held accountable since they bothered to ‘cover their backside’. Good job! did I say there’s no way around it? I said there is a policy in place. and that is a FACT.

     and worse, how about those teachers who blog about everything including their worklife, personal life and commentary on government policies.

     quote “so now we know, thou shalt not criticize or even speak about government policies.”

     This applies to only public and civil servants. Are YOU one? you seem to be showing your horse leg. Let me guess. You must be Dempsey! Lol!

     quote “sigh, how are we going to teach our children to be thinking adults? hmm… “son, i’m going to teach you about critical thinking, BUT never talk about this, about that, blah blah blah, oh, i think it’s better for you not to think at all!” ”

     If you’re stupid, it’s easy for you to arrive to, or should I say, jump to the above conclusion. Kneejerk reaction without the possession of critical thinking (due to limited mental abilities) always leads to that, so I’m not surprised.

     There is a reason for everything, including your failings.

     For the smarter folks here who have the brains to think critically beyond that of a plant unlike Ms To Insider aka Dempsey, the policy is set imperatively to prevent public and civil servants from using any public space such as the media and the internet, to propagate their personal work-agenda. This is especially imperative, given that these public and civil servants may pretend to discuss issues that have social references.

     Yes there are the odd few like too-free teachers caught blogging about their students’ English errors caught on STOMP. And they have been dealt with. Just because sins or crimes have been committed doesn’t make the commandments disappear. Are you stupid or what?

     The establishment believes and encourages all employees involved to raise issues they have with their superiors on matters relating to their work. This is ONLY fair.

     Let me assure all that not only the civil service has this policy. So do many private companies. I have known private sector giants that have sacked or brought to task employees who aired their ‘grouses’, coloured with additives and emotions that such mediums typically encourage. Others were plain slander and libel done in the guise of airing ‘grouses’. Some of them were genuine complaints but aired in an unprofessional and coloured manner that Internet commonly brings out. Others were done with ulterior motives and for personal gain. Some were done to discredit former employers that gave them the sack.

     You sound terribly ignorant, almost lacking in intellect, and like you don’t know a single thing about corporate life or the ways of the world. The only way you’re excused is if you were still in school. But alas, you’re actually a graduate, from med school no less. This is what happens when people get inferior education.

254. 
     sgnurse Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 12:56 am

     Hey realisticstudent
     What have you got against nurses?
     Did some nurse dump you for someone better.

     Keep your mouth shut and stop badmouthing nurses okay.We work very hard and are underpaid in Singapore.

     I know of doctors who switch off their hps during night call and are uncontactable. Their seniors have to work harder so these lazy doctors can sleep in their call rooms.

     Not only are you rude to nurses in Singapore, you are even rude to your senior doctor (starwars).
     You know why there are so many complaints against doctors like you?
     Cause you think u so smart and know it all, no respect for your fellow colleagues and even nurses . I wonder how you were accepted into medical school!

255. 
     mybuttisjohn Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 2:08 am

     I find it hard to believe there’s actually a nurse who thinks that another nurse dumped a junior doc. All the nurses ever do are try their best to date and claw a doctor. But nowadays doctors have wised up. Indeed quite a big number used to marry nurses, esp before the cap on female med students was lifted but now most marry female docs.

256. 
     siticinta Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am

     One cannot help but to feel sorry for people here who claim that they are in a big private and public practice corporation employing specialist drs/junior doctors/nurses and yet holding such intolerant views on this thread.
     We all won’t deny that such people do hold grandiose delusions. Maybe they are just a nobody in real life and only by coming onto this salary forum, they can assume a avatar insulting others/sprouting nonsense/promoting their beliefs which a lot of readers find distasteful.
     Calling NUS grads farmers is something unacceptable.
     This should be a forum where people are not intimidated or bullied. So what if they email from overseas or from internet café? LOL

     To those people who are unhappy with their working conditions – either put up with it and SHUT UP or seek greener pastures. Have you thought of packing up your bags and head to UK/US/NZ/Australia? It is fairly easy to get into Oz/NZ currently as a dr or a nurse plus NUS grads are very well regarded in these places. Employers will at anytime take in NUS grads to say a Subcontinent grad.

257. 
     uhappy Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 11:48 am

     Then let’s all go UK/US/NZ/Australia! Leave this place to the talented newcomers who will rebuild another great city for other newcomers who will replace them eventually.

258. 
     singaporean Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 5:18 pm

     Hey Singapore is a better place to live in.
     UK/US/NZ/Australia dont treat PRs as well as Singapore.
     Stay in Singapore better.

259. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

     stay in sgp as PR ??

260. 
     singaporean Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

     Its not just NUS grads, but all local grads who are farmers. It’s common knowledge, that they are farmers. Many of the farmers themselves know actually. Don’t you know that by now? How ignorant, you must be one of the farmers.

     So lame to say you’re superior than Indian grads in Australia and to think Singapore’s favourite pastime is to claim it’s a developed country (which it isn’t) when India’s Indian Institute of Technology is more regarded and recognised and rated way better by Financial Times than any of Singapore’s mickey mouse, lao pok ‘universities’ that are really of the standard of UK’s polytechnics.

     In any case, few people outside Singapore know of NUS’s existence, and the few who do don’t give a damn.

261. 
     singaporean Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

     and siticinta, who cares if you think that anyone is holding “grandiose delusions”? If someone didn’t have something and isn’t something and said he did and is, it always makes him feel worse I think. Can you imagine, if I was a farmer like you, and I actually proclaim not to be? Wouldn’t that make me feel worse? I’m sure it soothes your ego better than we didn’t have and is not, just like YOU, so knock yourself out! Probably helps you sleep better at night.

262. 
     asmara Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

     wow, it seem that this forum is getting heated up again over NUS grads versus grads from certain nations.

     sounds like someone from Terra Australis is giving a lecture on this forum telling us about the red dot’s mickey mouse institutions! hoorayyy

     what’s wrong with farmers? in Australia/NZ farmers in certain areas (with adequate rain) are rich. In Australia, farmers are not peasants. some ignorant people on this thread still has a notion whereby farmers = peasants.
     sounds like there are people who are not well travelled and are stuck in their lao pok world.

263. 
     singaporean Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

     The word isn’t used literally, but figuratively so no need to tell me how well-to-do farmers in NZ are and how many oxens they have. Perhaps these farmer lao pok universities should send their enrolled students back to primary school for some foundation course before they start year 1 of their cheap, low quality intellectual experience.

264. 
     peasant Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

     er… i thought peasants are better than farmers. in singapore, all citizens are farmers cos the foreigners rule over them! hahaha…

265. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

     to starwars:

     more calls does not equate to more training. You don’t learn when you are fatigued. You don’t learn when you are in robotic mode, clerking, and ordering investigations in auto mode when you are tired.

     i suppose after experiencing years of fatigue, you fail to understand this point.

     We need to put in hours. Quality hours. Not hours when you are brain dead.

266. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

     to sgnurse:

     nurses work 8 hour shifts. I’m pretty sure if you count the per-hour rate, nurses earn more than house officers.

267. 
     to peasant Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

     errrm no, not us. Have you ever thought that only YOU FEEL you are at the mercy of foreigners? Please don’t drag all Singaporeans into your insecurities and psychological issues of unworthiness. Its all fine and great that you have the inferiority complex towards foreigners. I don’t and all my peers say the same. In fact, we look down on some of them! Save the inferiority complex for yourself only ok? Haha

     And errm farmer is the same as peasant. Both terms are used figuratively and they mean the same. In Singapore, farmer was first used because 9 out of 10 farmers do not know what peasant means or do not come in contact with the word ‘peasant’ often.

     I find it absolutely hilarious that some deluded NUS med students can think Aussie med grads from Melbourne Uni and ANU would deign to consider their lao pok farmer school that’s good at nothing but boasting to the world that it’s “world-class” and “top-ranked” on nothing but lies.

     The lies have been exposed by temasekreview.com

268. 
     to peasant Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

     btw, on a sidenote to the NUS farmer who says that he thinks “all foreigners rule over citizens”, do you happen to know the citizenship of your rulers? hahah oh my freaking gawd

269. 
     Slave of Medicine Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

     WOW!!I have missed all the actions!!
     Thanks to Dempsey for having the courage to fight for your rights and voice out your honest opinions. I have stopped visiting this forum for a while. Didn’t expect that people out there are assuming that both of us are of the same person!! just because we have the courage to express our anger and concerns. PErhaps they were hoping that I will not visit this forum again, coz I’ve been giving bias opinions to other people, and scaring the foreign docs away…haha.. you all are adults, and well educated. U can always ask your friends for an honest opinion too!!

     Well, we shall stop fighting! coz this is not a place that practice democracy, they dun take feedback, and doctors are meant to work like a dog! If you don’t, u are considered as a lazy, low EQ, useless and a money sucker! They are not solving the problems. They will try to solve the problems by forcing people to privatE? admin? locum? GP? or ask us to change our profession! Well done, continue to do that..i’m sure there will be enough doctors to sustain the workload in the HOSPITALS in the future.

     This medical system is going from bad to worse..it will be worse when residency programme take place. If you genuinely want to attract foreign talents into the medical system, please be transparent and honest to us! and not to publish false information on the net, all of the foreign grads are being masked from the truth!

     PEOPLE OUT THERE!! please find out about the residency programme before u come over!! don’t be cheated like anyone of us!!
     you will be overworked, >80 hours a week, have to cover the “residents” to suck up all the crappy jobs, because they have protected time to study!??? and they only see limited amount of cases (apparently 5 cases per day?) in a day in order to give them a better training???!!

     Talking about equal opportunity? yeah rite.. that is soooo not true!
     Duke’s students = they will be a resident by default?? = first class?

     BSTs = trainees that are not getting protected time to STUDY, and have to suck up all the work that will be left behind by the residents = second class

     Non-trainess = suck up the jobs that are left behind by all of the above. If you are applying into the STRUCTURED residency programme, u will have to start with R1, which is equivalent to the housemanship. Despite of how many yrs u’ve been working as a MO = third class

     Good luck to the new system, good luck to those people whom had been cheated into the system, Good luck to people that refused to take feedback seriously, and lastly good luck to all the poor patients out there…

     Admin people; continue to make our life miserable
     goverment servants; continue to imagine that we are more well paid and not overworked
     Private surgeons; continue to work in private and attract more talents from the public. They deserve to have a better work life
     Public doctors; continue to be a slave until u are willing to stop the slavery and fight for your own rights!!!
     Nurses; it’s not wrong to aim high, or aim to marry a rich doctor.. we must be ambitious at all times. BUT not all doctors are rich..

     THE END

270. 
     peasant Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

     i’m saying that in general, foreigners (PRs and non-PRs) have it better than most singaporeans, thanks to our government’s super friendly foreign “talent” policies (hey, minister shanmugam just said it’s ok to criticize policies… is he referring to newspapers or citizens?).

     so friendly that even inferior “talent” like zhang yuan yuan managed to get her PR in a mere 2 months. that makes all of us super talents and geniuses, but what use is that?

271. 
     peasant Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

     “BUT not all doctors are rich”

     haha, how true. aim for the senior consultants.

272. 
     starwars Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

     realistic student :

     nah..you wont make it eventually. that much i can say.
     dont try to specialise..it will be too demoralising for you.

273. 
     starwars Says:
     October 28th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

     slave of medicine:

     yes. i just have 2 ortho surgeons planning to work for me in private practise. they are well trained and have done tons of cases….

     but i am concered about this residency programs. i think that seeing a few cases is just not enough.
     you need to see a wide variety of cases.

     i am going to voice my concerns to satku and at council and the SMA

274. 
     siticinta Says:
     October 29th, 2009 at 7:41 am

     there are bigoted people out there who pass their judgement so quickly on others. it is sad that they are living in their own little world and they think that specialising is everything!

     just look at our dear Dr Georgia Lee at TLC; is she is a specialist?
     we all know that she makes more money than some of the intolerant people out here on this forum and no doubts they are jealous of her. nobody has even mentioned her in this forum.
     One doens’t need to specialise in medicine to be on Tattler.

     with the Duke graduates – i am not surprised that many of them will end up in the US after the 4 year bond. Plus, they will be prepared to sit for USMLE. Should do a survey and see how many of them will stay behind in sgp after say 10 years. Only time will tell

275. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     October 29th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

     to starwars:

     whether i make it or not is not the problem. You are taking the discussion to a personal level.

     The point i was putting across was quite clear. You need time to learn, you need to be in the right situation to learn. I don’t see how seeing many many patients can aid in learning when you don’t even have time to reflect and think thru what you have seen due to the huge case load.

276. 
     low cost-low tech Says:
     October 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

     let’s go for 1 round at dempsey to help reflect & think thru. cheers !!!

277. 
     mediator Says:
     October 29th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

     let’s not be antagonistic.

     senior doctors, try to recall what you were thinking when you were still junior MOs- i’m sure you were idealistic and had lots of good suggestions but maybe didn’t have the chance or platform to voice them out.

     junior doctors, listen to the valuable advice from your seniors. they have a wealth of experience, only waiting to be shared with you.

     administrators, listen to all sides with an open mind and try to explain your position persuasively but respectfully.

     foreign doctors, maybe you can also talk a bit on the medical system in your country, whether you like it or think it can be improved.

     life’s already stressful enough. be nice and may we have a fruitful discussion here. cheers.

278. 
     to zyy Says:
     October 31st, 2009 at 3:55 pm

     peasant, have you ever stopped to wonder that you blame your government for welcoming foreigners to take up citizenship here, because of your inability to think, rationalise, your own low IQ, and your intellectual limitations?

     have you ever stopped to wonder that its your own weakness and failings that prevent you from understanding what your government sees?

     I have spoken to Singaporeans, who could see what they see, and who understand. I guess not all people are created equally. In terms of intellect. We all knew that right from the start.

     Are you replacing yourselves? How old are you? late 20s? 30s? 40?

     How many of your friends your age, say use your secondary school batch of friends in your circle as a guide, how many are married? Out of these, how many have children? How many have more than one kid? How many have more than 2?

     I asked some Singaporean friends in their late 20s to early and mid 30s (28-35). All of them replied that less than half are married, and out of whom, more than half are childless, and the ones with kids only have 1 to 2.

     Lets use the ‘best’ case scenario of 2 kids. 2 kids from 2 adult parents. 2 over 2. When the 2 adults die (father and mother), the 2 kids ‘take over’ the population. WHEN A MARRIED COUPLE HERE, SINGAPOREAN OR OTHERWISE HAVE TWO CHILDREN, THEY ARE ONLY REPLACING THEMSELVES. THEY ARE NOT EVEN MULTIPLYING THE POPULATION! THEY ARE JUST BARELY REPLACING IT!

     When 2 adults have 1 kid, they are NOT REPLACING IT. 2 for 1. If this was an investment product, it has a 100% depreciation rate.

     When 2 adults have NO kid, it’s a 200% depreciation loss maker.

     Now do you understand the gravity of the situation for you guys? Come 25 to 30 years when the current batch of baby boomers (now in late 40s and 50s) are in their 70s and 80s, the most efficient workforce in their 20s to 30s (who would be babies now) would barely be 20% of the seniors. H0w are the young going to support the seniors? How will it done? The whole country will collapse. Income tax will probably be about 80% (like in UK and US’s 50% to 70% now). The GDP will barely be enough to cover 10% of the healthcare costs and more social problems caused by 10 elderly persons to 0.5 productive person below aged 40. Your government gives out PR status ‘easily’ (in your opinion), even to people like Zhang Yuan Yuan to some foreigners, so that they would be more inclined to take up citizenship and make the place their home long-term. The foreigners’ offsprings would also have Singapore citizenship and considered natives. The Chinese are especially preferred because they contribute to the racial balance here. I notice the Singaporean Chinese citizens do not have many children, or more choosy about spouses compared to the minority races. I think that was an issue that greatly troubled your government. YOu can connect the dots yourself, if you know your history. I won’t spell anything out.

     Population not replacing themselves is not a uniquely Singapore. Almost all developed countries have battled this problem in the last 10 years. In other words, it’s a problem that commonly afflicts developed economies, whereas third world countries can’t seem to be able to control their population from making more babies. France, Japan, UK, South Korea, Australia and most of the other developed economies of the EU have a population replacement problem.

     The only developed country that have coped well with it and even beat it successfully is the US, one of the most immigrant-friendly country in the world. It was only through migrants that it was able to keep his population multiplied and sustain the future of the country.

     In 2006, the US just saw its population cross the 300 millionth mark, the main driver of which, stated by the US government and economists are new migrants, and the children of naturalized migrants.

     “The United States’ total fertility rate is 2.1, which means that, on average, each woman gives birth to 2.1 children throughout her life. The total fertility rate of 2.1. means a stable no-growth population overall. However, immigration plays a huge impact on the growing U.S. population. Overall the United States population is growing at 0.9% a year as of 2007.”

     “Of the 117 million people added to the population during this period due to the effect of new immigration, 67 million will be the immigrants themselves and 50 million will be their U.S.-born children or grandchildren.”

     http://geography.about.com/od/obtainpopulationdata/a/uspopulation.htm

     The US’s 200 millionth citizen, Bobby Woo aka Robert Woo Jr was born in Atlanta, Georgia in 1967, was a Chinese baby of migrants.

     http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/robert-ken-woo-sr-163928.html

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ken_Woo,_Jr.

     http://www.asianweek.com/2009/09/16/who-was-our-200-millionth-american-citizen/

     So maybe you gripe about your government because you’re too stupid for them. No wonder so many foreigners leave messages I see all the time online after they left SG like “Singapore, good government. Stupid people.”

     Based on my interactions with native Singaporeans educated here, I feel that most of them are quite to very dumb, unable to think critically, on top of having poor English. They simply don’t have the ability to rationalise. I wonder whether it’s caused by the universities here.

     There are a few brilliant SIngaporeans I’ve met, who’ve had good education. I think the wheat is separated from the chaff right from the start. Your ruler LKY was right about genetics.

279. 
     How is life as a doctor in Singapore? - Salary.sg Forums Says:
     November 4th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

     [...] you read the comments at: Doctors’ pay | Salary.sg – Your Salary in Singapore and Income of GP Doctors | Salary.sg – Your Salary in Singapore [...]

280. 
     starwars Says:
     November 9th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

     hahah…what was i thinking when i was truding around the hospitals at 4 am in the morning?
     and operating for days on end? i was cursing of cos!!!
     i told myself..what on earth am i doing? why are these pple torturing me??? why am i doing this??

     only when i became a consultant, then did i see the light. all those years…
     they were all a necessary evil.

     i am concerned now that with the new residency programs, it will not be enough practise for the younger surgeons. basically the more you see, the more you do, the better you become.

     there is NO such thing as a text book case in medicine. there is a wide wide variation.

     so to all the junior doctors out there : believe me..i was cursing more than you. complaining more than you and being paid a whole lot less than you!!!

     but then…looking back now..i still say it was a necessary evil.
     tired, hot, frustrated…..angry…it all paid off eventually.

     so please do the same all the younger doctors here.
     cos at the end of the day….YOU WILL BE THE ONES WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF ME!!!

     SO FOR HEAVENS SAKES, PLEASE STOP WHINING AND GO AND DO THE CALLS.

     and dont screw up when its your turn to treat me when i get old!!!

281. 
     michael Says:
     November 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

     Starwars – well said .. though I am not a doctor, the same applies for any profession that needs passion and dedication.

     I’d rather be a pig than a chicken.

     Cheers

     PS: how do I reach you ??

282. 
     starwars Says:
     November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

     thanks for agreeing with me michael.

     actually that is the biggest fear many of us consultants have now.
     cos its the younger doctors now who will eventually treat us when we get old.
     so they need to get as much experience as possible.
     after all, who is going to do our knee replacements? hip replacements? cardiac bypass? stenting etc etc?

     go and practise practise and practise.

     and then when i get old, i will look for those with the best hands and experience.

     i dont want some joker who scored only distinctions in medicine/and surgery but did not get the necessary hands on experience!!

283. 
     kincaid Says:
     November 12th, 2009 at 11:36 am

     starwars – are you able to provide us the figures of rate of MRSA joint infections in your joint replacements?

     I do agree that practice makes perfect.

     Would you feel safe if you were being operated by a junior registrar, say you are a public patient?

284. 
     poordoc Says:
     November 17th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

     people migrate in search of better life in their life time, and as a result, there comes problems and improvements together.
     what we need, in my mind’s eye, is individual rational thinking for a destination.
     if you feel like it, do it.
     or if not, don’t do it.
     no need to argue personally diverting pointing fingers to others whenever one finds pitfalls throughout the endeavour of migration.

285. 
     rosmah Says:
     November 19th, 2009 at 10:31 am

     the issue of fatigue amongst hospital staff, ie drs and nurses and other allied health workers have been brought out in this forum even before the KK saga

     http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/17/kkh-medication-blunder-khaw-dismissed-worker-fatigue-as-cause/

     recalcitrant fools here in this forum refuse to acknowledge that fatigue is a big stumbling block to making appropriate decisions in patient care.
     they will just shoot down and do all the name callings of their opponents like cry spoilt babies

286. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     November 19th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

     Some ppl would just blindly bite the bullet. Singapore, or should i say, most developed countries have come to a stage where patients, with their greater power and autonomy, have became more demanding as well. Gone are the days where they are just going to listen to their doctors and do their bidding.

     Service quality is more and more expected from the healthcare sector. Chronic fatigue due to excessive calls, long work hours (the “necessary evil”, as someone else above put it) will eventually lead to negligence of some sort.

     I don’t see how come it is so difficult to understand that lack of sleep and recuperation makes one less able to concentrate in his job. And studies have also proven that lack of sleep decreases one’s immune system. So ultimately, docs who work for hours on end are putting their patients at risk not just due to potential medical negligence secondary to their tiredness, but also from an increase risk in spreading infections cos of their decreased immunity.

287. 
     starwars Says:
     November 19th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

     MRSA for my joint infections?
     zero for the past 10 years.

     getting operated on by a junior registrar? no thanks.
     infections rates have been proven to be highest in the places with the lowest numbers of joint replacements. its in all the major orthopaedic journals in the world.
     and they also tend to be highest in the most junior surgeons.

     but having said that, i too was once a registrar .
     i didnt become good over night.
     no one does.
     i guess malcolm gladwells book outliers and the 10,000 hours principle is true.

     chronic fatigue? as if i dont know about it.
     but it wont change…at least not for now. the calls will be here to stay.

     but i know which direction we are headed.

     we are moving to the direction of the US and UK.
     there will be a whole lot more surgeons, and insufficient hands on practise.

     the question is, : what is the right balance?
     i dont know.
     but the 10,000 hour principle is certainly required to get the right amount of practise.

     and how does one reach the 10,000 hour principle?

     you are right : DOING MORE CALLS.

     see? its the chicken and egg scenario.
     argue all you want.

     its the truth. practise makes perfect.
     and that you cant change.

     but i have said it many times before ; do i like calls? of cos not! are you crazy?
     but how does one get good?
     u got to put in the hours.

     simple.
     if you are tired? sleep. take short naps. dont have to make decisions immediately. learn to manage your time.
     see the case later.
     operate later.
     learn to live on a few hours sleep. 4-5 hrs is enough for most pple.
     can always sleep another time.

     at least that is how i did it.

     if you dont like the calls, simple. quit.
     no one is forcing anyone to do it. and no one will think ill of you if you do.

     its a free society.
     you can come and go as you choose.

     if you think we work hard?
     no way compared to those at the Mayo clinic.
     those guys are crazy.
     they start ward rounds at 4 30am.
     and revision total hips at 10pm at night. and they say if you dont like it or cant take it, simple, you can always quit.
     there are tons of others who will fill the position in a heart beat.

     and lets stop all this name calling.
     and to each his own.

     i have done it.
     i am not forcing anyone else here to do it right?
     so why get angry with some of us who disagree?
     this is an open forum. why all the name calling?

     we all have a right to agree or disagree.
     there will be some who will agree with me and others who wont.

     so be it.
     everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

     i think i have said my 2 cents worth about calls and fatigue.

288. 
     adiemuso Says:
     November 20th, 2009 at 9:05 am

     starwars,

     i applaud you and those doctors of similar attitude.

     think you have to cut these distractions here now.

     its not worth playing the harp to the cow.

289. 
     777 Says:
     November 20th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

     I applaud starwars too. he makes the most sense. I share his fear that it is the current batch of ‘junior’ doctors who may become surgeons, and who may operate on me.

     Yikes!

290. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     November 20th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

     well like i said earlier, gone are the days where patients will just listen to their doctors. Working long hours may have worked in the past, cos patients don’t complain as much. I’m pretty sure that with so much fatigue, there were medical errors and these errors didn’t really surface cos no one complained nor did anything about it.

     Taking a nap, managing time? I simply don’t see how a houseofficer has that much time to manage. perhaps, if you didn’t know since it was a good god damn many years ago since you last did the job of a houseofficer, there are many changes to do, and it has to be done within the day. Hell, most of the time, one can’t even go for a post-call. And is that healthy? for both patient and doctor? I certainly don’t think so.

     More importantly, medical education, the learning etc shouldn’t be built upon a foundation where we put our patients at risk cos we doctors are tired when we work and learn cos of the long hours.

     One of the main aims of new residency programme is to curb “overworked” doctors who not only do they not learn much cos of fatigue, they make errors while working.

     Look at the many lawsuits that NUH is already facing. Do we want the medical scene in singapore to head towards the way of the states where so much lawsuits take place? I don’t think so.

     The best step to protect such a situation is to ensure a system where doctors can not only learn, but are able to get enough rest so as to provide the best care for their patients.

291. 
     starwars Says:
     November 20th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

     realistic student :

     if you hate medicine that much, then give it up
     dont do calls. resign.
     you can always go and become a GP tomorrow.

     cos if you really hate it that much, then resign.
     no one is putting a gun to your head.

     and as for the errors, its not always due to fatigue. some certainly are. but a lot are due to o lack of practise or breach in protocol.

     you speak as though i was never a house officer before.

     comeon, i was in medicine way before you. have seen a whole lot more and done a whole lot more even before you started.

     so pls dont preach to others. especially to me.

     this forum is for us to air our views.
     so i have aired mine.

     if you really hate medicine so much, then quit.
     quit quit quit.

     cos i really cant imagine having a surgeon like yourself treating the singapore population in the future.

     that i can say for a fact.

     the difference in everyones career is simply :

     knowledge, skills, attitude and practise.

     you may have the knowledge and the skills..but if you lack the attitude and the practise, how on earth can you make it in medicine?
     let alone in any industry?

     i am sure that all the comments we have made in the past few months are not just pertaining to medicine.
     this is a requirement in every single professsion and job.

     we all start from the bottom and work our way to the top.
     you mean to say that the lawyers too dont work as hard as we do?
     comeon…dont be naive. they too have dead lines and the most junior ones are perpetually in a state of chronic fatigue. as are the bankers, the brokers the accountants etc etc.
     medicine is no different. we all need to work very hard, irrespective of the profession.

     what ultimately makes the difference between having a successful or unsuccessful career is the KSAP.

     mark my words.
     come back to forum in 3 to 5 years and tell me where you stand compared to your peers.
     and prove me wrong.

     Dr. Jeffrey Chew
     MBBS(Singapore) FRCS(Glasgow)
     FRCS(Edinburgh)M.Med(Surgery)(Singapore)
     FICS(USA) FAMS(Orthopaedics)(Singapore)
     Mayo Alumnus(Mayo Clinic)(USA)

     Managing Director
     Centre for Orthopaedic Group of Companies

     Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeon
     Joint Replacement Specialist and Sports Surgeon

     Centre for Orthopaedics and Hip and Knee Surgery
     Centre for Sports and Shoulder and Elbow Surgery
     Centre for Spine and Orthopaedic Surgery

     Mount Elizabeth Medical Centre
     Gleneagles Medical Centre
     East Shore Medical Centre

292. 
     angrydoc Says:
     November 21st, 2009 at 12:52 am

     Dear realistic student:

     Don’t give up. You are the future doctor. We share the same feeling.

     Starwars is just showing the arrogant of typical surgeon and think he is boss of Singaporean and call all who don’t agree with him to quit.

     Starwars if you are so good, don’t only show all your qualification. Win me a Nobel prize and see. You should wander why still no Singaporean win any of this prize.

     Refuse to make yourself too fatigue to endanger the patient doesn’t mean we don’t work hard. People still don’t understand that… I don’t think Warren Buffet work as hard as you…

     If you think
     work hard and get more call and fatigue = achievement and success
     more qualification= better person then can show off

     Many people will just laugh and you.

     I believe we can have life and be a good doctor. Take the time to gain experience and not shorten the learning curve and work until become a dead fish to endanger yourself and your patient.

293. 
     tostarwars Says:
     November 21st, 2009 at 12:17 pm

     hahahahha …..
     mr chew –
     “if you hate medicine that much, then give it up
     dont do calls. resign.
     you can always go and become a GP tomorrow. ”

     you sound very arrogant and it sounds that you have a chip on your shoulder – yessssssssss
     . By the way, one doesn’t need to be a specialist to be on Singapore Tattler. Dr Georgia Lee has done well if not better than you – and does it piss you off ;P ? HAHAHAHA.

     By the way, you have failed to mention about your joint infection rates in the last 20 years; you have only mentioned the last 10 years.

     And so why aren’t you setting up a private practice at The Mayo Clinic since you are so good? Hahahah … cannot make it there is it?

294. 
     angrydoc Says:
     November 21st, 2009 at 3:23 pm

     Its seem experience and status is more important for starwar. Climbing to the top is so important that he forget about the first principle of medicine- ‘do no harm ‘.

     Don’t tell me that you will advice people to drive more to be more experience so reduce MVA. Get enough sleep and better road infrastructure and better car with good safety features are probably more important. Fatigue and drive (or operate/write prescription) are just going to kill you and others. So if you are driving (working in) a lousy car which run at 60km/hr (hospital admin sys) and you want to be safer and do yr work more efficiently, then you better change a new car which is safer (change the admin sys).

     ‘Do no harm’ also should be extended to be respectful for junior and colleague. I don’t think he respect others either. Just show off.. Show off the way Mayo clinic practice N year ago probably and ask people to follow…

     That is the problem to have a medical doctor to be the director… Doctor should be medical director only, not MANAGING DIRECTOR… without the management knowledge and QUALIFICATION to manage an organization….(some will say, experience enough already maaa…) then you will see more and more hosp admin (who is doc) talk like this. Go and read something about organization behavior not orhto text book when you want to talk to a group of people…

295. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 12:11 am

     to starwars,

     like i said before. It was a good god damn years eons ago when you were a houseofficer.

     You may have done more, but unfortunately, i think you have not really progressed much in terms of mentality and attitude over the “years” of training which you so proudly acclaim.

     Why do i say so? Your arrogance speaks for itself.

     Secondly, your ignorance in the current state of affairs also speaks for itself. Like i said earlier, gone are the days when patients just do their doctors’ bidding. Your method of crude, brute training by seeing more cases, doing more even though you are fatigued, making errors along the way and fortunately no one notices or complains against you, DOES NOT WORK TODAY.

     Who says i’m out to be a surgeon? What i want to do in medicine is none of your business, in case you are personal. I thought consultants and maybe middle-age adults like yourself should show much more maturity in a forum and in a discussion.

     The right attitude to learning in medicine is to see one, do one and to teach one. And of course, in the process, learn. You just do calls like a robot, you are fatigued, let’s see how are you going to “see one, do one and teach one” when you are zombied cos of chronic fatigue.

296. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 am

     to starwars:

     where i stand compared to my peers was never an issue. There was no need at all to compare anything, from grades, clinical ability etc. Why was there a need to compare? Do you gain anything from it? Other than stress or the occasional self-inflation of your ego?

     In case you didn’t know, in life, as long as you are happy, anything goes.

     You can spend your whole life working up the ladder, feeling stressed about hospital politics, comparing how many ops/calls you’ve done compared to your fellow colleagues etc, and like what others have said here, at the end of the day, you’ll be the subject of laughter of the peers you’ve “beaten”.

297. 
     lawyer Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 6:42 pm

     obviously Realisticstudent is not aiming to be a specialist like starwars. He isn’t cut out for it. I suspect it’s the same person as that dempsey that keeps quoting Georgia Lee, and who did so again under the new moniker tostarwars. And please, Lee doesn’t make as much as what the ENT, cardiology and orthopaedic and plastic surgery surgeons make. If you all envy Lee’s life so much, believing that she makes as much money as specialists (she does not) through a short-cut without having to specialise, by all means go ahead. Let’s see what happens and where you end up. I agree whole-heartedly with Dr Chew here.

     And hor, please don’t be naive. The aesthetic medicine scene here is so crowded. I see new names popping up every week in a magazine, with a new doc sucking the balls of the media hoping to get their name to appear. It’s so saturated now, we can imagine it would get 10 times worse in 5 years time, and 20 times in 10 years. Do you honestly think the Singapore market is as mature as the aesthetic market in first world countries like the US? dream on.

     And no need to keep citing Georgia Lee lah.

     p/s: Ermm btw the people appearing in Tatler are nowhere even the 1st tier rich in Singapore. The real rich folks in Singapore, the people with a solid reputation due to their profession, family business and the old money do not appear in Tatler. Even some lameass dental surgeon can appear in these society mags nowadays, and everyone knows its because some of them buy ad space. You need to grow up.

298. 
     lawyer Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 6:44 pm

     And dempsey, when you can’t even spell Tatler right, you will never appear in it.

299. 
     tolawyer Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

     sounds like a deluded fool who is here to make a mockery of himself.
     Who cares who dempsey is. You seem to be so hung up by her.

     Everybody knows that Georgia makes more money than some of those specialists out there. No wonder there are so many pathetic jealous fellow doctors out there who see red when her name is mentioned .

     if you call yourself a lawyer (i suspect that u are just faking it) then you r not even fit to sweep the floors of The Supreme Court! . I suspect that you haven’t got the intellectual capacity to even perform that.

300. 
     angrydoc Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 pm

     2 issues here.

     1) Lawyer not fit to give his comment here. he/she might be second name for starwar…

     2) Starwar said:’if you hate medicine that much, then give it up dont do calls. resign. you can always go and become a GP tomorrow’.

     so hate medicine or loser should be GP?

     it seem there is discrimination here.

     Someone can just report it to relevant GP organisation.

     I think Webmater should say something here. Starwar clearly owe all GPs a a big apologize.

301. 
     prof Says:
     November 22nd, 2009 at 10:07 pm

     It seems that young drs nowadays have no repect for their elders

     An irony for rude juniors claiming that their seniors are rude to them.

     It is a sad fact that lots of unsuitable people are admitted into medicine. Many junior drs are choosing lifestyles careers instead of specialties which require them to be on call.

     When it is time for me to retire (in the near future), I wonder who will take care of me?

302. 
     adiemuso Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 9:57 am

     to all who believe hardwork is not neccessary

     CNN Money article on Warren Buffett

     and btw warren buffett works ver very hard for his money. the hours that he put in in scrutinising the reports, figures and research is mind boggling. top guys are perfectionist.

     its a zero sum game, i believe barring good luck n inheritance, between hardwork n money.

303. 
     rosmah Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 9:59 am

     “Prof” you had mentioned “It is a sad fact that lots of unsuitable people are admitted into medicine. Many junior drs are choosing lifestyles careers instead of specialties which require them to be on call. ”

     lifestyle careers? r u implicating the hard working GPs who are serving the poor at the Polyclinics?

     If your answer if yes, that means you are downplaying the important role of some of your renowed colleagues like Prof Goh Lee Gan.

     From the way you write, you do not sound like a real ‘prof’.
     Respectable professors like Prof Goh Lee Gan and Prof Chee YC do not dish disparaging remarks like you.

304. 
     sgdr Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 10:15 am

     Dear rosmah,
     I think prof is referring to lifestyle specialty that trainees have to copay to enter. (Opthalmo, ENT, Derm, Plastic Surgery)

     Polyclinic posting is never popular with bonded mo until recently. The reason is that non trainees mo will become service mos when residency starts next yr.

     Polyclinc posting is a hardship posting in the past but now it is becoming popular not because it is a slack posting but other hospital postings (except derm, ent and eye)are worse and require u to be on call.

     Let’s hope hosp admin manages to recruit more drs in future to Singapore. With UK, Australia shutting their doors to asian drs, Singapore will benefit from their losses!

305. 
     lawyer Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 pm

     tolawyer, pls lah, stop making a fool of yourself here dempsey!

     If you think that anyone who embarrasses you by exposing what a dumb idiot you are must be starwars, i think your ‘intellectual ability’ is so shameful, its best you quit so that you won’t get to ‘treat’ any of the countrymen resulting in death and disaster.

     Your idea of someone who has arrived is by appearing in the media, which goes to show what a fool you are. you probably think those Fly entertainment artistes and mediacorp starlets are damn rich and earn more money than surgeons, perm secs and AOs. i think such a big fool like you didn’t deserve to get into med school. Wow I didn’t know its so easy to get into med school when people of such ‘intellectual standards’ also can make it.

     Anyone who isn’t a bumpkin and is actually clued in on the high society here knows about how only third rate wannabes try their darnest to get into the low-class society magazines here while the truly rich like the Kwees, the Ngs and the Khoos do not deign to ever appear and make a fool of themselves. Even some freakin loser can buy an ad and get the yearly invites to the low class society balls that only losers aspire to go hahaah! And we know how many of such dental surgery outfits there are in Singapore.

     Only such a try-hard wannabe and aspirant like you don’t know such things, yet have to cheek and gall to make a disgrace of yourself in a public space.

306. 
     lawyer Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 12:41 pm

     and realisticstudent, no need to go on making a fool of yourself like dempsey here (but i must say she’s a bigger disgrace) by repeating ad nauseam the same line over and over when it has been addressed and you have failed to address it properly.

     Its either you’re intentionally evading or you have such a poor sense of logic that you fail to see it. Your continual harping on the same point= fatigue -> mistakes

     starwars has said that fatigue is the only cause of mistakes. In fact, lack of practice and not following protocol are already two other factors he can easily pull out of his hat. Yet you keep on harping the same point claiming that patients these days are different and may not listen to their doctors subserviently when they make mistakes. Its back to the same point! if you had more practice, you decrease the odds of mistakes.

     You have failed to convince anyone that all mistakes made are attributed in a justifiable manner to fatigue, and you have failed to convince also that there is some other issue here other than your own aversion to hard work and paying your dues.

307. 
     lawyer Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm

     The fact that you can’t even spell the name of the low class magazine that those of us who have truly arrived spit on, Tatler correctly, makes dempsey aka tostarwars and tolawyer, the biggest fool of this forum. Has anyone ever seen the top earners, the CEO of Keppel, Capitaland, Temasek, the ministers, the top surgeons making a big of themselves..hahahahah

     Tatler and prestige, home of the aspirants, the SME towkays and owners of little small high-fashion boutiques and standalone jewellery shop hahahahahaha. What a twit.

308. 
     tolawyer Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm

     “lawyer” aka mutated dempsey – whatever this twit wants to call himself

     hahaha .. sounds like someone was missing when brains were being distributed *a big hug for our “lawyer”* – we all feel sorry for him

     He is just an insecure fella sprouting nonsense on this forum – and we all suspect that he is a mutated form of dempsey

     my advice to you is to go back to prep school/ primary one to serve your time. At least it will make you a little more agile in the intellectual sense, than the (literal) handicaps that we find among the peasants.

309. 
     lawyer Says:
     November 23rd, 2009 at 8:31 pm

     errm you’re Dempsey. The jig is up.

     Shameful.

     p/s: finally learnt to spell Tatler? hahahahaha

310. 
     PA Says:
     November 24th, 2009 at 5:44 am

     Dear starwars, I wonder if you can help me answer the following questions;

     * what is the salary range for nuclear medicine technologist in Singapore? Is it in high demand?

     * what abt the salary range for surgical physician assistant in Singapore? I don’t see many job openings for SPAs in Singapore. Over here (USA), 75% of the PAs make abt $75K to $100K a year (USD). I wonder how much I can expect to make if I return to Singapore for good.

     Surgical Physician Assistant

     * assisting in surgery (1st or 2nd assist);
     * taking patient histories;
     * performing physical examinations;
     * inserting and removing various catheters and devices; and
     * performing wound care.

     Thanks.

311. 
     children Says:
     November 24th, 2009 at 10:15 am

     I am a child and i need lots of love and care…

312. 
     tolawyer Says:
     November 25th, 2009 at 7:43 am

     “errm you’re Dempsey. The jig is up.
     Shameful.
     p/s: finally learnt to spell Tatler? hahahahaha”

     looks like someone is Dempsey himself trying to put up a smoke screen here

     hahahahah … TATTTTTLER ….
     or whatever
     i can’t be bothered to spell that correctly.

     Anyway, you are the one who is hung up as you are not featured in there or even Cleo! (we know that you don’t have that X factor)
     You should see Kakakkk Georgia to have her to give you a good botox .. oops i am not sure if that will make you look any more gorgeous .. maybe Uncle Woffles or Uncle Martin can chip in to help out

     For all we know you are the bogus lawyer lurking around in this forum.
     You sound like a cleaner who was rejected by a law firm!
     never mind lah … you enjoy your role plays .. go and pray pray okkkkkkkk heheheheh

313. 
     Kevin Says:
     November 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

     Hey Lawyer,

     Sorry to poke my nose in .. you just pushed the spoiler into this interesting conversation ..

     If you are a real lawyer, you should know that such third class cussing means you only show your own upbringing.

     PS: I am not supporting or opposing anybody, I am just disgusted with this kind of name calling ..

314. 
     aspiring surgeon Says:
     November 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

     dear starwars:
     may i humbly find out how much an average private orthopaedic surgeon is able to get per annum?

315. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     November 28th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

     To lawyer:

     One thing i can say for sure is this. Some ppl think that being a specialist is everything.

     What i can say is this. medicine is an occupation which has ample opportunities for everyone.

     That being said, if the only thing you can think about is being a specialist and that being the be all and end all, i’d say, you have a miserable tunnel-track vision, and i view your poor life in dismay.

     Do continue to run the rat race with the tunnel-track vision.

     P.S: no point trying to speculate whether i’m to specialise in future or not. i can’t believe that ppl in this comment page who are supposed to be well-achieved doctors are still acting like spoilt brats without a tad bit of maturity in a discussion/debate.

316. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     November 28th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

     to lawyer,

     re: post 306.

     “and realisticstudent, no need to go on making a fool of yourself like dempsey here (but i must say she’s a bigger disgrace) by repeating ad nauseam the same line over and over when it has been addressed and you have failed to address it properly.”

     It hasn’t been addressed. Pardon me for my “incompetence” but with your “intellectual abilities”, pls point out how the main issue i’ve been raising ad nausem has been addressed properly. All i see are diversions to the issue i’ve been mentioning.

     “Its either you’re intentionally evading or you have such a poor sense of logic that you fail to see it. Your continual harping on the same point= fatigue -> mistakes”

     Again, let me reply ad nausem. I continue to harp on it cos it hasn’t been addressed. Some ppl would rather the fatigue continue with the 10000hour principle, or work-to-death principle. I wonder how such paradoxical concepts are a recipe for training and learning.

     “starwars has said that fatigue is the only cause of mistakes. In fact, lack of practice and not following protocol are already two other factors he can easily pull out of his hat. Yet you keep on harping the same point claiming that patients these days are different and may not listen to their doctors subserviently when they make mistakes. Its back to the same point! if you had more practice, you decrease the odds of mistakes.”

     You need more practice yes. But not when you are fatigued and putting patients’ lives at risk. You practice when you are of sound mind and body physique, so that you can make precise and accurate medical judgement, and learn accordingly. Let me give you a simpler analogy, just in case a person like you on ivory tower fails to see the ground issues. A pile of dog shit is in front of you, you’d continue to step on it each time you come across one if you

     1) Don’t know it is a pile of dog shit
     2) Aren’t aware it is dog shit cos of decreased concentration/attention/awareness due to fatigue
     3) Aren’t aware of the consequences of stepping on a pile of dog shit

     “You have failed to convince anyone that all mistakes made are attributed in a justifiable manner to fatigue, and you have failed to convince also that there is some other issue here other than your own aversion to hard work and paying your dues.”

     YOU HAVE FAILED TO SAY THAT I HAVE FAILED.

     Thank you and have a good day.

     

317. 
     PA Says:
     December 1st, 2009 at 1:24 am

     Guys, ever heard of Physician Assistants? That’s how the healthcare system in the US takes care of its doctors — by assigning Physician Assistants to do work they are trained for, to assist doctors so that doctors don’t have to work so many hours each day, so that they have time for themselves and loved ones too.

     Hosp Admin and Hosp CEO failed to see that they need to hire Physician Assistants bec

     1. they’re expected salary are not as high as doctors but they can do work that doctors dont need to be doing. And they are licensed to prescribe drugs, not all though.

     2. They are trained in the medical curricular, unlike Nurses, so they are a good fit for doctors to work with. By the way, Nurses do their own thing, they helped out doctors when they can of course but a PA’s job is to solely assist the doctor he/she was assigned to. 1 PA can be assigned to 2 doctors too, if that helps in keeping the healthcare cost low.

     I can’t believe no one in this forum even mentioned PA as a solution for Hosp Admin or Hosp CEO to consider regarding their staff management issues.

     Now, all I wanted to know, is how much do PAs get paid in Singapore. It’s a new profession I believe in Singapore, maybe Singapore has never even hired a PA before! And maybe they should start hiring PAs so that all these poor doctors can do a better job for their patients?

     Read this about the PA profession;

     Link to CNN Money

     And read the comments from PAs who worked in the US, how they have helped doctors and why they go into this profession, besides the good pay compared to nurses.

     Wake up, guys, find a solution… My suggested solution maybe unacceptable to some but at least it is a suggestion.

     So, anyone else have a better solution to this shortage of doctors issues in Singapore? Or do you have a solution for Hosp admin and Hosp CEO to sit down and think — how they can stop making doctors work for so many hours while trying to keep their cost low?

318. 
     no Says:
     December 1st, 2009 at 8:16 pm

     I can’t believe what a total deluded fool this dempsey/to lawyer is. If there was anyone more desperately stupid and thick than she, it’d have to be watered.

319. 
     tolawyer aka no Says:
     December 2nd, 2009 at 10:24 am

     You are just like zillions of deranged fools who enjoy posting endless comments that don’t add any values to the discussion, and simply try to wear others out. Unless you have something new to say, please don’t post/repeat the same thing over and over again.

     Find something better to do.

320. 
     nerrad Says:
     December 4th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

     Hi

     I’m an aspiring medical student. I’d like to humbly ask a question to many of you experienced doctors/public health administrators. Would foreign trained doctors be disadvantaged when it comes to the selection for BST? Thank you.

321. 
     to noneed Says:
     December 4th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

     I don’t think so.

     No one regards or thinks much of local trained anyone, including doctors.

322. 
     sgdr Says:
     December 4th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

     BST??
     You should be talking about medical residency
     No more BST in future!

323. 
     nerrad Says:
     December 6th, 2009 at 1:00 am

     I know that’s the policy for certain specialties for locally trained doctors ( like doctors would be attached to specialists instead of doing their usual housemanship ), but I don’t think it’s specified if it’s extended to foreign trained doctors.. or have they ? correct me if im wrong

324. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     December 14th, 2009 at 1:21 am

     wow…this forum is indeed very colourful!! hahahaha so many opinions…which is great indeed.

     singapore at this time does not employ PA’s. at least not yet.
     but then, who knows this may change in the future.

     as for average pay for ortho surgeons in pte practise i am not sure.
     all i know that its very variable and we should no talk about pples salaries without actual figures. speculating on salaries will certainly generate a lot of comments which may all be untrue.

     anyhow, i dont think that we should continue with all this name calling etc etc.

     and everyone cussing at each other.

     live and let live.
     if you dont agree with someone elses opinion, fine. just state your points and try to back them up. cursing that person only demeans yourself.

     so lets try to exercise a bit more tact ok?

     after all, this forum is a place for us to air our views.
     there is enough stress to handle on a daily basis already!!

     lets not discuss any further this topic of fatigue and calls etc etc. its here to stay and that fact wont change. OK? some like to do calls, some dont. I for a fact hated calls, and i still hate them!! i can think of a gadzillion things to do at 3 am in the morning rather than be truding around the hospitals.
     eg : sleep, reading, sleep, tv, sleep, out for drinks, sleep, supper, sleep, talking cock with frens, sleep…u get the picture!!

     and the foreign doctors who have joined us from overseas are here to stay. they are now part of the medical fraternity so lets just welcome them with open arms rather than cursing at them as well.

     lets discuss on:

     1. pros and cons of the medical residency? will it benefit the doctors? will there be enough exposure? or will the young doctors be forced to specialise way too early?

     2. can singapore really make it as a medical tourist destination? if so why?..if not why? do we really have what it takes?

     3. is our health care really that good? i think it has been ranked 6th in the world? anyone can check it up and confirm that? what constitutes good health care? just looking at infant mortality rates and MMR?

     4. what does it take to make a good doctor? how is one judged as a good doctor?

     these my friends, are a few of the questions we should be discussing about. okie?

     anyone care to comment on any of the above topics?

     star-was. hahahhaa

325. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     December 15th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

     well, whatever the case, yes i agree that the talk about over fatigue and all should end.

     BUT it should be noted that fatigue in doctors is a VERY important danger hazard cos it just puts more lives at stake.

     As to whether the new residency programme will prove any benefit, only time will tell.

     However, I, for one, am a little skeptical of it. The programme seems alright so far based on its tenets and principles. However, it’s the people who’s bringing this programme that is questionable. We have already seen in this forum some generation gap among the older and younger newer doctors. We can’t have a new programme with an old mentality.

     Times change and people have to change with the times.

326. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 12:04 am

     i am all for change
     provided that

     1. the younger doctors get the exposure first instead of being forced to decide early whether or not they wish to specialise.

     i regret at times that i did not do enough postings from the outset.
     ie : i never had the chance to do formal ent or eye postings as an MO to really see if i would like ent or eye.

     now with the residency program, i wonder if they are specialising too early?

     dont you think that a bit more exposure would be better?

     starwars

327. 
     PA Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 5:39 am

     Thanks, starwars for the reply on PA. That’s what I thought. I hope in future, say 4yrs fr now, they will start into recruiting PAs to help doctors do more important things for patients. Even if they don’t, oh well, there’s alot of PA jobs here in the US but I would love to return to Singapore for good in the next 5yrs or so. *sigh*

328. 
     MSG Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

     Hi, i am currently doing my o level and is planning to go into a JC. I had been living in singapore for about 3 years( I am a foreign student). I really want to become a doctor in singapore and the only way i could think of is only by going into a junior college. However, i am still not sure what subject combination should i take for my A level in order to get into the medical school in singapore… I need your suggestions anyway.. Thanks…

329. 
     2MSG Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

     triple science and maths. go to the top JCs – raffles or hwa chong.

330. 
     ITE Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

     wahlau….now the trend is not to go to JC or even poly la….now trend is to go to ITE and emerge as an entrepreneur! people who go JC and then university are so dead and common…

331. 
     MSG Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

     Top JC?? that’s going to be very competitive anyway.. is coming from a Top Jc will really matter to go into the medical school in singapore??? i thought, the only thing that matter is only A LEVEL result….anyway, thanks for the response.. is it true that in order to get into the med school in singapore, all of my subject results for A level should all be in “A”s and must be bloody high??

332. 
     2MSG Says:
     December 16th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

     if you’re afraid of competition, then don’t be a doctor. to get in, you must at least do well in all your subjects and pass an interview to assess your suitability.

333. 
     MSG Says:
     December 17th, 2009 at 8:59 am

     thank you so much for the information… It’s really useful..

334. 
     ITE Says:
     December 17th, 2009 at 6:23 pm

     still talking about JC? come on la…i study ITE but sitll earning an average of $15-20k a month now cheyyyy

335. 
     MSG Says:
     December 17th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

     Wow.that’s good! but i dont think that by going into ITE, i will be able to achieve my dreams..

336. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     December 18th, 2009 at 5:45 am

     do you still need triple science and maths?
     my time yes.
     but i heard that there have since been a lot of changes

     why dont you check up the web site for medical school entry on the NUS web site.

     and now, you can even gain entry doing IB, etc etc.

     there is certainly more than one way to get into medicine.

     but the interview is very important.

     cos by the time the candidates are short listed, all of them are usually top scorers ususally.
     most of the interviewers( my class mates now in NUS) keep reiterating how difficult it is to segregate the applicants.

     so they need to have that added extra.

     ie : they also look at your ECA, your level of participation in other activities, how else you have demonstrated your interest in medicine etc etc.

     starwars

337. 
     ITE Says:
     December 18th, 2009 at 11:12 am

     MSG: why u wanna be a doctor when u can earn alot more being a businessman

338. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     December 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

     who said it has anything to do with money?
     its a very rewarding occupation. at least for me

     starwars

339. 
     ITE Says:
     December 19th, 2009 at 11:07 am

     rewarding my foot la. everything in this word boils down to $. if u want rewarding occupation, might as well go work in charity org or proverty stricken countries

340. 
     rr Says:
     December 20th, 2009 at 1:54 am

     how long does the recruitment process for a doctor will take after being interviewd by the hospital?

341. 
     MSG Says:
     December 20th, 2009 at 8:25 am

     ITE: the only thing that i know is that being a doctor is my dream since i was a kid. I don’t really care about money. I just want to help people and take huge responsibility taking care of people. I don’t want to go into business course just for the sake of earning a lot of money and end up regretting about my dreams..

342. 
     ITE Says:
     December 20th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

     MSG: cool then can u gimme all the money u earn as a doctor and u just work and get satisfaction and realize ur dream?

343. 
     MSG Says:
     December 20th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

     ITE: LOL?? I did not say that i don’t need money. I mean that I don’t really care how much money i will earn as long as it’s enough for me to live. BuT anyway, i still have a long way to go to become a doctor..

344. 
     starwars Says:
     December 20th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

     should take a few weeks at least.

     why ? which hospital did you interview at?
     and for what position?

     starwars

345. 
     Wikiman Says:
     December 30th, 2009 at 10:18 am

     Unless you’re a nobel prize winner or big shot, they’d require you know at 2 languanges. Chinese, malay, or tamil are important for the second language.

346. 
     PL Says:
     January 10th, 2010 at 9:49 pm

     Hmm.. Just spent a good hour reading all the past post (nothing to do on a Sunday night.)

     Re: Realistic Student.

     Aye… Your 12 cases of patients that went to HD and ICU… in my humble opinion… is both your fault and the SN fault.

     First dose antibiotics are not supposed to be given by nurses. It is supposed to be given by Drs due to possibility of anaphylatic reaction. So obviously, you as a student fail to pick up how work processes are carried out in the IP Settings.

     First dose anti diuretics. Did you ever check that the anti diuretics that you ordered are ward stock medication? I highly doubt IV anti diuretics are ward stock medication. If it is not a ward stock, you got to wait for the pharmacy to send up the new drug. By the time the drug comes up, your patient already went into sepsis?

     Again. Ignorance of processes.

     But I felt that the SN in charge should inform you re: this issue. Perhaps the SN was busy, thinking you know the protocol. Perhaps she was just plain lazy.

     Don’t get me wrong. Everybody was new before. I just feel that everybody should not blame one another when things go wrong.

     Just ask oneself. When things go wrong, who is the one that suffers? Apart from the ego bruise that we suffer, the patient is the one that receives the full extent of damage. Everything else is just collateral damage.

     The physician pledge that you took reminded you to “make the health of my (your) patient my (your) first consideration”.

     The nurses pledge that we took reminded us to “provide a competent standard of care for the sick”

     So stop bickering about whose fault is it that resulted in the patient going to ICU/HD.

347. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     January 11th, 2010 at 10:19 pm

     To PL:

     I didn’t mention anything about first dose. Maybe i didn’t made myself clear. I did gave the first dose of those medications. However, subsequent adminstrations of the medications were not adhered.

     And this is despite me reminding the nurse physically, SMSing the nurse-in-charge, ordering the meds etc and telling her to make sure her colleagues in the next shift know and all.

     Whatever the case, i have done all humanly possible stuff to remind on my part.

     My case has been brought to the nursing department in that hospital, and a warning was served to the nurse in charge of the patient from the top. Speaks pretty much who fault it was isn’t it? We should count ourselves lucky that the patient’s family members did not lodge a complaint against the hospital.

348. 
     prof Says:
     January 14th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

     I think we should not say all these things in public.
     We should support nurses and not reprimand them in public.
     To write all these things in public is simply undermining patient’s trust in Singapore medical system and I hope that admin can delete all sensitive information lest it be used to sue the hospital

     Regards.
     Realisticstudent: u have been warned!

349. 
     hitechradio Says:
     January 15th, 2010 at 1:38 am

     Hi.
     I am a radiologist from India, completed FRCR(UK) 3 yrs ago and presently working as a faculty in one of the best teaching hospitals.
     Is pay of 8000-9000 (singapore) dollars good enough to live with wife and kid?
     how s the career growth?
     Please reply. i need to decide fast.

350. 
     medrecruit Says:
     January 15th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

     Singapore taxes are low so it is more than enough to live with wife and kid.
     U be able to get a comfortable lifestyle

     If u want more, we can help u negotiate more.
     Pls visit our website at http://www.latitudes-group.com/

     regards
     Recruitment Consultant

351. 
     starwars8888 Says:
     January 15th, 2010 at 9:46 pm

     realistic student :

     what on earth are you doing?
     do you want to get sued? or in trouble with smc? and with the nursing board?
     this is absolute madness discussing such cases on a public domain. and blaming the nurses?

     if anyone on smc finds out who you are, you will be in serious trouble.

     you better delete all your previous posts.

     starwars

352. 
     not doc Says:
     January 16th, 2010 at 12:01 am

     if realistic-student telling the truth, what is wrong with that? do you mean that such incidents should be covered up even when exposed? how many such incidents were swept under the carpet?

     and do you mean that smc will punish whistle blowers? shouldn’t smc uncover the truth and help rectify things that are not right?

353. 
     insider Says:
     January 16th, 2010 at 9:39 am

     Pls note that this forum is being monitored closely.
     Appropriate action will be taken soon.
     Regards

354. 
     observer Says:
     January 16th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

     do u know that the whole world is reading your posts? how they feel abt going to singapore for medical treatment. this forum is for folks to ask abt salary in singapore as a doctor. what a joke!

     that being said, maybe i dont want to work in singapore as a doctor plus the salary in singapore fro what i read in this thread, is still so much lower than what doctors get in the US and yet worked so many hours a day as if the doctor doesn’t have a life of his own.

     to top it all, you doctors who are working in singapore and making the rest of the doctors who are not even involved in this discussion look like they are working in the wrong country, be it local or overseas trained.

     you all make all doctors, who have been through so many years of studies and residency time, sound uncivilized, uneducated and acting like morons.

     keep to yourself if you have something to say or opinions, if its not abt doctor’s salary in singapore. spare the space here for those who came to this forum to ask abt salaries!

355. 
     To Starwar8888 Says:
     January 17th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

     This is only a forum where ppls raise their point of view. I have no time to read through what realistic student has posted.

     Why some ppls who do not dare to raise and highlight the truth out is because of ppls like u around that use ‘law’ to threaten. If you only like to hear bias ‘good’ comment, this forum is meanlingless

356. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     January 17th, 2010 at 8:26 pm

     to prof:

     firstly, there has been no breach in privacy or patient confidentialty in what i’ve written so far here in this tag board. I have not disclosed any patient identifiers nor have i even disclosed which hospital it is in.

     And to everyone who’s “shocked” of the account that i’ve just raised, i’ll just say the following:

     “Welcome to the real world”

357. 
     Prof Says:
     January 20th, 2010 at 9:44 am

     U still dont get it, do u?
     U have undermined the public confidence in the Singapore public health care system
     I sincerely hope u stop posting such misleading incident that are taken out of context.
     Dont let yr years of training be wasted.

     This is your final warning!

358. 
     middleclass Says:
     January 20th, 2010 at 10:59 am

     http://www.flayme.com/troll/

359. 
     public Says:
     January 20th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

     dear all,

     I think i will more worry with people like prof in healthcare system. Try to block flow of information, freedom of speech and probably hidding real peoblem of healthcare system from general public. This really undermine confidence of public.

360. 
     Kevin Says:
     January 20th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

     To Public : Washing dirty laundry in public is the one that cause concern to the public ..

     I am not a med person, but worked with enough, and have enough relatives, to know that there is no 100% perfect medical system. Things go wrong and the training and technological and scientific and clinical advances are to reduce, but never can mistakes be eliminated.

     To draw an analogy, if you know the amount of near crashes, in flights, and if pilots were so openly mud-slinging, nobody will ever fly. I have been up front, and from the back, what looks like a normal landing in cross wind landing is near crashes, and more often the pilots will cross themselves after landing in worse weather, and nobody at the back knows, so it is ’safe’. Now if pilots reveal every ‘near crash’ landing, how would you feel ?

     I am sure SMC has their channels and doctors like RealisticStudent can voice them there, and SMC does not silence such concerns, and, instead will work on resolving. If you know the number of doctors being censured by SMC, you will know what I mean. And meantime, if you know a 100% perfect healthcare system, do let me know .. I am looking for one in this Planet.

     Professionals don’t worry those about other professionals passing judgements. It is the ‘general public’ who are more than often mis-informed, and quick to draw conclusions, who are cause for concern …

     PS: one of my distant relation is a doctor in a hospital in New York, and he was saying that on an average, their is atleast one or two wrong foot being amputated, or wrong breast being removed, and more than enough patients being mis-diagnosed, and more often gun-shot victims bleeding to death when that could be been avoided. But, when we look up to the west, it is all hunky-dory there right ?

     Again – Please don’t wash dirty laundry in public

     [Above is my personal comments, and not a reflection of anybody's policies, and neither am I siding anybody, or connected to any authority]

361. 
     Kevin Says:
     January 20th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

     Realistic Student: not stepping on your toes, but do you always have this ‘holier than though’ attitude ?

362. 
     Prof Says:
     January 20th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

     Kevin is absolutely right
     I suspect realistic student is a troll who is trying to bait doctors to attack him/her and gain sympathy.
     Sorry I was too worked up and fell for his/her trap.
     Let’s focus on the forum topic which is salaries of doctors in Singapore.
     As a general rule, our pay here may be lower but taxes are low too so it is definitely attractive to relocate to Singapore.

363. 
     poordoc Says:
     January 21st, 2010 at 12:02 pm

     I like to work in Singapore as I find it worth progressing a career.
     The reason is that SG treats people more or less equally depending upon meritocracy.Of course, a country will favour its own nationals first, that’s nature.
     On the other hand,not all the men are the same, there still is some component of SG nationals who look ill to foreigner forgetting that all are just drops in an ocean.
     Regarding salary in SG, it’s lucrative in the sense that the tax systems are good and the quality of life
     is international-standard.Of course, SG being the best safety place in Asia is a big plus to all.

364. 
     poorcitizen Says:
     January 21st, 2010 at 1:05 pm

     >a country will favour its own nationals first, that’s nature.

     unfortunately, it’s not true in Singapore. on the whole, foreigners and permanent residents get more and better benefits than citizens.

     you should come and take advantage of the lax immigration policies before the authorities change their mind to please citizens (election is coming).

365. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     January 21st, 2010 at 8:59 pm

     to kevin:

     where is the “holier than thou” attitude in the words i write? In case you have overlooked due to your overwhelmed emotion, what i have written is just what i have experienced serving in the healthcare sector for awhile. You yourself have also concurred with my findings in the earlier post you wrote.

     The fact is this. There are things which are unseen, unheard, and swept under the carpet. Errors are made daily, which aren’t reported as they aren’t major enough to make it into the headlines, nor are they serious enough to get the annual auditor’s attention.

     I cited those examples as to what are some of the current fallacies in the current healthcare system locally, and what can be improved. Yet some here, by virtue of their seniority, choose for old ways to persist hoping that the errors in the old system will fade away itself.

     I’m dumbfounded. How are medical errors going to be reduced when the same risk factors predisposing them are still present? (i.e, tired doctors, long hours/calls etc)

     Secondly, it is not just doctors who need change. But the whole healthcare and allied health sectors which need a change. recently, i’m sure you have read the KK hospital incident where the pharmacist programmed the infusion pump for a patient’s chemotherapy regime properly resulting in a few days dosage given all in 3 hours. This just shows that ancillary healthcare staff, nurses, whatever and whomever, needs to upgrade, to progress etc.

     My example was just to illustrate that nurses have to be more responsible in their job, and more training should be done so that they can function properly and not endanger our patients’ lives just like how the near misses occurred in my scenario.

     It’s really no use hiring more foreign doctors when the root of problems aren’t nipped in the butt isn’t it?

366. 
     bystander Says:
     January 21st, 2010 at 10:10 pm

     r-student, i’m on your side. people like mohh and prof and even starwars are a shame of the healthcare community. who are these old farts to ask people to shut up? because they’re old or because they are senior? or because they practise “asian values”, or because our political leaders set a bad example for them to shut people up?

     r-student, just remember not to do the same when you become a senior practitioner yourself.

367. 
     public Says:
     January 21st, 2010 at 10:21 pm

     R-S, i am on your side too. People, let face the real world and the new generation.

368. 
     Kevin Says:
     January 22nd, 2010 at 10:19 am

     Realistic Student: I feel you just doing a troll, as if the Medical Professionals need serious re-training ..

     My main concern was your serious intention to wash dirty laundry in public, or venting your views on a public forum, where, while it may evoke discussion, has the higher probability of questioning the integrity of your profession.

     And, the more louder you complain, atleast in my eyes, it shows that you are an attention seeker, or feel you know so much that you can pass judgement on others, including ‘nurses who need re-training’ – to quote your words.

     Instead of just bleating that the medical system is in need of serious changes, and that you know so much, as a student, so much so that people with years of hard earned experience are being questioned by your superious knowledge, why don’t you do something ? Write a whitepaper, and seek assistance from Doctors and others, and circulate it and work on it ? Maybe you will get an award or something that will fulfill you ego.

     Just tell me something: Have you ever killed a patient ? Or are you the re-incarnation of God himself, that you shall never commit a folly ?

     You can ask the forum admins to remove my comments, but I still stand by my view that – you are hell bent on washing dirty laundry in public, and you are somebody who will always have the last word in any discussions.

     PS: There is a saying, ‘take care of the nurses and be nice to them, because they are the ones who stop doctors from killing you’

369. 
     middleclass Says:
     January 22nd, 2010 at 11:54 am

     Kevin: i think there’s enough shame to go all around.
     While i see that there are some genuine passionate posts that crossed the lines probably because the authors are vending their real frustrations at work.
     However there are also a few internet trolls that just post asinine, insulting and threatening nonsense.
     You can tell by imagining that all these conversations took place in a room and place the group of adults having a good discussion and the screaming imbeciles in the corner.
     Hearing what’s being said but also listening to how it’s being said.
     Internet trolls enjoy bringing everyone to their level because they are unable to think and converse as mature adults would.
     End of the day no matter how clever or successful they think they are with their lies and deceptions.
     They still have to look at themselves in the mirrors everyday and wonder what the heck went wrong in their lives.
     They may think in their twisted little world that they can fool everyone but ultimately they cannot fool themselves and their own pathetic lives.
     Lastly I can only ask that the adults write as if they are speaking face to face to the real person in the conversation.
     When we can all do that the trolls will be exposed and have no other choice but to go away.

370. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     January 22nd, 2010 at 3:41 pm

     To Kevin:

     Like i’ve already said. My intention was pretty clear, to point out that there are flaws in the current system, which should be remediated first before any talk of other progress.

     What dirty linen is there to wash in public, or any intention to spike malice within the medical fraternity if what i said is a true event? You yourself have cited incidents in the states where medical errors have happened and i similarly mentioned mine just a little earlier. You on the other hand, seem to have some hidden agenda of covering truth and seem to have failed to understand the crux of this issue.

     There is a current trend in singapore where the public blames doctors for every single god damn error which happens to them, without even considering the fact that the healthcare system does not consists of doctors alone. I have pointed, with my own similar experience, and the chemo incident at KK that EVERYONE in the healthcare sector need to work together, to progress together so as to further the cause of providing better patient care. Nurses, allied health doctors, pharmacists. Any weak link in the chain is going to cost morbidity and mortality to the lives of our patients and that is what i’m pointing out. EVERYONE needs re-training and continuing medical education. Not just doctors or professionals. I have pointed out that our ancillarly staff in the healthcare system has not meet world standards yet as such a things like failure to adhere to drug administration can still occur.

     Lastly, i would surmise that you seem more like the troll in your comments instead of myself.

     Also, your “solution” of writing a whitepaper is a no-brainer. Ppl like myself are ordinary citizens. Try tabling something to the ministry and see the amount of red tape you have to cross before your lines on a piece of paper ever get across to the top person. If you’d like to suggest something, pls do with something which is achievable yourself, instead of shoving the impossible to another person.

371. 
     Michael Says:
     January 22nd, 2010 at 4:21 pm

     RSL forget it .. you do sound like the thousands of ‘new age’ kids who believe the world must change, and they know more than others.

     You can hang yourself, for suggesting I have a hidden agenda. I am not a doctor, nor am I even distantly connection the health system here, nor do I get paid anybody to counter your ‘valuable’ and ‘intelligent’ stuff. Get a grip man.

     I am here, because of my own interest, and find out one post where I threatened you or anybody, or threw my weight around, unlike your silly harping.

     As for you accusing me of washing american laundry .. well, can I quote the medical system in .. say, Timbuktu, to make you happy ?

     And for your countering that red tape will shut your opinion out, that is called GOvernannce. Maybe you should become a member of Junior Chamber, or Rotary Club, and learn the democratic way of making change, not your arrogant two headed accusations, and repeated justification of inducing fear on the medical system here.

     There are systems in place, and you have to work your way in. Seniors and experienced people exist in any industry, and they are not anti-change, unlike a couple of decades ago. And a young horn like you claim to know better than people who have worked their heart and soul.

     Just tell me one thing: have you ever had a patient die under your watch ? If you did, did you feel apathy or sympathy ? Or maybe you the God’s gift to the world, to be totally flawless.

     PS: don’t bother to reply. You are getting boring and senseless with your stubborn attitude.

372. 
     Michael Says:
     January 22nd, 2010 at 4:25 pm

     Oh, I forgot, let me remind you. It is because of doctors with the ‘holier than though’ attitude that the public is getting scared and accusing the system of having failed.

     You must applaude the MOH here for publicly revealing the censured doctors, instead of ’see no evil’ attitude in most other Asian countries, and doctors are assumed to be flawless and it is the fault of God or just say that the dead persons’ time was up

373. 
     prof Says:
     January 22nd, 2010 at 8:13 pm

     Well said Michael
     I must admit to not screening medical school applicants properly resulting in students like RSL sprouting nonsense in this forum instead of studying hard like what the result of medical students are doing.

     There is no perfect system and I do hope the public will not lose the trust in our excellent medical system and foreign drs will join us to serve the people of Singapore.

374. 
     Enough of senseless censuring Says:
     January 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 am

     @Realisticstudent

     Thanks for bringing up this issue. I think you have driven the point across to many many ppl who have been on this site. It takes courage to do so, and I applaud you. Just know that for every prof and starwars here, there are plenty of ppl like me who support your cause and quietly hoping for some changes that will further improve what is already a good medical system.

     Kudos to the admin for not senselessly censuring comments just because ppl like prof and starwars put up inane requests. I always enjoy an open discussion and absolutely abhor the exact attitude displayed by these ppl.

375. 
     poordoc Says:
     January 23rd, 2010 at 9:14 am

     East and West will never have the same values with regard to relationships like doctor-patient, student-teacher, and boss -employee.People born in East including me would be rather meek than those form West.So things like Do-what-I -say attitute may be ramphant,but on the other hand,the respect to seniors in every profession especially in medicine ( mind you there’s Hippocratic Oath stating that “I would regard those who teach me medicine as my parents “) is a matter of life saving .Honestly, I love it.

     People may know in most of the modern developed world, there are events where no one would touch to help a car accident victim unless the poor victimised had the evidence of health insurance.
     While in East countries, this is less likely.

     I am just pointing out some differences , with my 2 cent knowledge , among health care between East and West.

     I fully agree the comments that there is no 100% perfect health care system on earth.That said, one shall remember a famous quotation by the late American President John F Kennedy ( the West President ) that ” Ask not what your country can do for you,but what you can do for your country “.We shall go hand-in-hand with other medical fraternity for the better health care in a certain country while not blaming every single pitfall.

     I am aware and convinced that not a single real medical professional would have intention to harm intentionally or for whatever reason alike.Those outside the circle will pay for thier deed.

     I am not advocating anybody or any organization here, but being a medical doctor born in a resource constraint country, I am more than aware of the situations stated in the former comments, but I am still looking from the bright side.Otherwise, those doctors like me would be feeling like ” If it rained porridge,I wouldn’t have a bowl!”.

376. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     January 23rd, 2010 at 10:03 pm

     To Michael:

     Tell me what accusations have i made. Stubborn attitude? I think such comments suit more for people like yourself.

     While i take value in the experience of senior doctors, i think there are flaws in their views too. Ppl like you blindlessly think that old, senior equates to good, and that is where you are wrong. Such is your one-sidedness which shows in your arguments (if there is any in what you write.)

     The democratic way of making change is not something is achievable by everyone. If not, EVERYONE along the street would make it into parliament.

     P.S: I hope you can shut your bulltrap instead of making senseless comments. To hell with your accusations of others being holier than thou when you are being so yourself. Walk the talk, instead of running your mouth, dude.

377. 
     Realisticstudent Says:
     January 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 pm

     To prof:

     i don’t think i’ve said anything which is of nonsense. My examples were quoted from fact, and it is YOU who seemed to be ill-informed that medical errors are made when healthcare staff are overworked. Go do a search on pubmed and see how many studies have concurred on such findings and you’ll see for yourself that i’m not lying.

378. 
     wi Says:
     January 24th, 2010 at 1:03 am

     Realisticstudent – i agree with you about the mental fatigue (i have experienced it regularly, myself being a clinician in this nation for over 10 years) and i am sure there are many who think so too, including docs in this forum.

     it certainly does not need a genius to figure out that working while mentally exhausted affects our judgement and therefore compromises the safety of our patients. period.
     those who do not think so should really go for a psychiatric evaluation.
     just attend a surgical morbidity/mortality audit round…it’ll open most people’s eyes to the public healthcare system. but, to put this issue in a different perspective (even though this is no consolation to patients whatsoever), this happens too in uk, where i have worked.

     however, i feel whatever we write here will not change the situation in the near future (which is why i will not comment after this post) and there will always be resistance by people to make fundamental changes to a flawed system that they themselves are a product of. an uphill battle for you but i do wish you all the best. as for me, i have already given up.

379. 
     antirs Says:
     January 24th, 2010 at 10:51 am

     I am not a dr but the way u talk u sound like u know it all.
     Be respectful to yr seniors and maybe one day u rise up and effect change
     Yr rudness and arrogence will get u nowhere!

380. 
     respect Says:
     January 24th, 2010 at 11:03 am

     respect is earned. it is passe to blindly respect your seniors or leaders. you don’t stand up for your right, you’ll only suffer in silence if the so called seniors are incapable and selfish, or worse, evil. hitler was also well respected, but see what great atrocities he created. extreme examples aside, before you talked about rudeness and arrogance of juniors, you should also see how rude and arrogant the seniors in this forum are. they set truly bad examples.

381. 
     antirs Says:
     January 24th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

     Dear respect,
     Are u rs clone?
     Look at all the posts rs made, u think he/she is respecting nurses, his seniors or even other forumers.

     Maybe RS should look himself/herself in the mirror and reflect on his/her behaviour in the forum.
     Even Dempsey already appologise for her rude and misleading remarks!

382. 
     masada Says:
     January 25th, 2010 at 10:17 am

     for doctors who are interested in working in australia, u must read this link

     http://www.ochrerecruitment.com.au/working-in-australia.html

     NO Australian medical council exams is needed if you have obtained your primary qualification in New zealand/US/ UK

     ) Doctors with Masters of Family Medicine from the
     National University of Singapore are eligible to apply to
     sit the FRACGP without the required minimum of 12 months of
     GP experience from Australia. To enter this program,
     you must first register an expression of interest ro receive
     an application from. Once you have passed the initial
     screening by submitting all your documents with the application form, the RACGP will contact you forr afitness of intended practice post’ interview.
     The purpose of this interview is to assess your fitness topractice in your intended post. the interview:

     > > will take up to 2 hours
     > > will be conducted face to face in Australia
     > > panel will have 3 members who will ask you to review a
     > > number of patient scenarios and respond to questions
     > > fee is $AUD !,500 (GST free). In the case of
     > > cancellation a withdrawal fee will apply
     > > is a prerequisite to enrolling into the RACGP
     > > College Examination and the Certificate of General Practice

     paywise – it is well known that some country hospitals do pay GPs up to A$1500 (new south wales rate) to A$1800 (in Queensland) for GPs who run the local district hospital emergency departments (working hours from 0800-1800 hrs – will pay for call backs of up to A$90 per hour – minimum 2 hour call backs)

383. 
     masada Says:
     January 28th, 2010 at 6:27 am

     RACGP Specialist Pathway – Good news for IMGs who want to work in Australia
     The Royal Australian College of General Practitioners has announced that from Monday 1 February 2010 the college will formally take enrolments for the RACGP Specialist Pathway. The RACGP Specialist Pathway is a new assessment process for doctors who do not have current Australian medical registration but have recognised general practice qualifications from overseas. The new program provides a pathway for international medical graduates (IMGs) to obtain RACGP Fellowship, taking into consideration their previous training in general practice. The RACGP is now accepting eligible applications for the Specialist Pathway from the following three categories: Fully Comparable Doctors (Category 1) and Partially Comparable Doctors (Categories 2 and 3).
     Eligibility criteria for the categories can be obtained form the RACGP website at http://www.racgp.org.au/overseastraineddoctors
     An overview of the RACGP Specialist Pathway and a frequently asked questions fact sheet are available from this site. For specific questions please contact 1800 626 901 or assessment@racgp.org.au

384. 
     Issues for foreign doctors to think about Says:
     February 3rd, 2010 at 5:54 pm

     Wow, I only just caught up with this forum. Firstly, I think that this should be a discussion forum and aggression, name-calling etc has no place.

     There is a lot of truth in all that slave of medicine and dempsey said about working conditions for the junior doctors in Singapore. Kudos to them for speaking up. And yes, sleep deprivation has link to impaired concentration, no one can credibly dispute that.

     Singapore has been on a recruitment drive to recruit foreign doctors for an extremely long time, yet they are still very short of doctors, especially doctors they are hoping to target (who received their medical education from first world countries). When something is such a hard sell, you have to wonder why. You don’t see Cambridge or Oxford going overseas on recruitment drives, do you?

     Actually, I think the issue here is not the salary. The overall take home salary (ie, after taxes) are comparable to what a junior doctor (HO, MO, registrar) with similar experience would earn in Australia. But, a junior doctor in Australia works much less hours, and when you break down to hourly pay, the doctors in Singapore earn much less. Besides, essentials like houses and cars are far cheaper in Australia so your standard of living is much much better than in Singapore.

     I think the issue is about working conditions and respect. The vast majority of the junior doctors working in Singapore are Singapore graduates bonded to the system (because of their NUS study bond). Like it or not, they have to stay because most of them cannot afford the very large sum they have to pay back to break the bond. When one is bonded, they lose bargaining power. Like it or not, they have to accept whatever conditions get imposed to them. And also because of the fact that they are paid by the month not by the hour, they are forced to put in a lot of extra hours. I know hospitals which have daily meetings that start at 7am and MO’s have to attend. And for MO’s to have to come back alone every Sunday for routine ward rounds, that’s totally uncalled for, I think. I remember a posting I did where I did not get a single day off for 2 months. Yup, I worked 60days in a row. As someone said, even maids get a compuslory day off.

     And since these are the set working conditions in Singapore, the foreign grads also have to work under the same conditions.

     I think if the seniors make us feel appreciated and try to acknowledge the hardship that the juniors go through, it does go a long way. Rather than think “I’ve been through it so you must go through it too”. It may not actually change the conditions, but it makes us feel better about it. Many people are not driven by money, but by job satisfaction.

     In terms of trainee positions, I can’t say there is a bias against foreign grads. However, if no one knows you, you’re less likely to be selected for a job than another doctor who have worked here and is known to the seniors. It’s human nature. Even if you are on the selection panel, you’re more likely to pick someone you know, than someone you don’t know isn’t it?

     For foreign grads who come back to Singapore, there are also hurdles like the fact that you have to form new friendship, you don’t have anyone to advise you re which postings not to choose, what to look out for etc, because you don’t know anyone.

     There is another issue – the SMC. Even though they state on their website that Singaporeans who are foreign grads can apply for full registration after two years, in reality there are a lot of people who, for no apparent good reason, are not given their full registration after two years (MO’s whose performance have been consistently graded good, never made any clinical mistakes, never had complaints made against them!)… and the first indicator of a “poor” performance was when full registration is rejected after two years. The best thing is, they don’t give you a reason why full registration is rejected! Your SMC assessment reports are not shared with you. It is likely a ploy to keep foreign grads trapped in the public system, because the foreign grads have no study bond. So foreign grad Singaporeans, be very aware! You may want to rethink your decision to come back if you think you can get full registration after two years! The actual fact is that you’re likely to be trapped in stifling working conditions for longer than you think!

     The bottom line is, if you graduated from a first world country like UK, Australia, USA, you’re really MUCH better off staying put, because the working conditions and living conditions, quality of life (for yourself and your family) are far better in these countries. I can’t say the same for doctors who currently come from the third world countries, because living conditions are better in Singapore compared to those third world countries and they do stand to gain by coming to Singapore.

     Just my opinion, of course!

385. 
     Issues for foreign doctors to think about Says:
     February 4th, 2010 at 6:06 am

     As for foreign consultants who want to work in Singapore, the reality is that your hands will be severely tied with the conditional registration – which stipulates where you can work, how many hours you must work etc. You can forget about flexibility or locum work. You have to start all over again, and if you really think about it, you’re probably better off spending those few years building your career in where you are right now, and starting over.

     As for junior doctors who are thinking of working in Singapore, just know that many many foreign grads have come back to work in Singapore, then left again when they realised what they really got themselves into. If someone borrowed money from loansharks and are now subjected to their harrassments, why should you come along and be subjected to the same harrassment? Totally unnecessary.

386. 
     prof Says:
     February 4th, 2010 at 11:20 am

     What a whole lot of bullshit!

     The only reason why junior doctors have to work long hours is because there is not enough junior doctors around.
     Will discouraging foreign graduates to come to Singapore help or worsen the manpower shortage?

     SMC is transparant and your accusation against them is unfounded. I hope you retract your accusation or action will be taken against you.
     I am still considering whether to lodge a formal complaint against you with SMC.

     Isnt it obvious why you are not granted full registration if you continue to sprout nonsense in this forum?

     Most foreign graduates under me are hardworking and they have moved on to become specialists. 50% of specialists in Singapore are foreigners and which other countries practice meritocracy like Singapore?

     U are entitled to your opinion but pls exercise responsibility in your posting or actions will be taken against you.

387. 
     admin Says:
     February 4th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

     Dear “prof”, may I know specifically what action will be taken, against who, and for what reason?

     And can you please stop using expletives?

     As the admin of this site, I do not mind heated comments posted here, but I just do not like the idea of someone issuing threats.

     I’m not sure if you are a real Prof or Doctor, but if you are, do you also use expletives and threats at work or at home? This behaviour is very unbecoming of a doctor.

     For now, I’ll just assume you’re a troll.

     Also, refer to my exchange with hospadmin, whom I think have some things in common with you, if you know what I mean.

388. 
     prof Says:
     February 4th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

     Dear admin,
     You have allowed someone to defame Singapore Medical Council and undermine the Singapore Medical System.
     I do hope that you consult your lawyer soon. It is pointless to argue with people who dont see the point.

     Regards

     http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?actno=REVED-75&doctitle=DEFAMATION%20ACT&date=latest&method=part&sl=1

     Unintentional defamation.
     7. —(1) A person who has published words alleged to be defamatory of another person may, if he claims that the words were published by him innocently in relation to that other person, make an offer of amends under this section; and in any such case —

     (a) if the offer is accepted by the party aggrieved and is duly performed, no proceedings for libel or slander shall be taken or continued by that party against the person making the offer in respect of the publication in question (but without prejudice to any cause of action against any other person jointly responsible for that publication);

     (b) if the offer is not accepted by the party aggrieved, then, except as otherwise provided by this section, it shall be a defence, in any proceedings by him for libel or slander against the person making the offer in respect of the publication in question, to prove that the words complained of were published by the defendant or were published by the defendant innocently in relation to the plaintiff and that the offer was made as soon as practicable after the defendant received notice that they were or might be defamatory of the plaintiff, and has not been withdrawn.

     (2) An offer of amends under this section must be expressed to be made for the purposes of this section, and must be accompanied by an affidavit specifying the facts relied upon by the person making it to show that the words in question were published by him innocently in relation to the party aggrieved; and for the purposes of a defence under subsection (1) (b) no evidence, other than evidence of facts specified in the affidavit, shall be admissible on behalf of that person to prove that the words were so published.

     (3) An offer of amends under this section shall be understood to mean an offer —

     (a) in any case, to publish or join in the publication of a suitable correction of the words complained of, and a sufficient apology to the party aggrieved in respect of those words;

     (b) where copies of a document or record containing the said words have been distributed by or with the knowledge of the person making the offer, to take such steps as are reasonably practicable on his part for notifying persons to whom copies have been so distributed that the words are alleged to be defamatory of the party aggrieved.

     (4) Where an offer of amends under this section is accepted by the party aggrieved —

     (a) any question as to the steps to be taken in fulfilment of the offer as so accepted shall in default of agreement between the parties be referred to and determined by the High Court, whose decision shall be final;

     (b) the power of the court to make orders as to costs in proceedings by the party aggrieved against the person making the offer in respect of the publication in question, or in proceedings in respect of the offer under paragraph (a), shall include power to order the payment by the person making the offer to the party aggrieved of costs on an indemnity basis and any expenses reasonably incurred or to be incurred by that party in consequence of the publication in question;

     and if no such proceedings as aforesaid are taken, the High Court may, upon application made by the party aggrieved, make any such order for the payment of such costs and expenses as aforesaid as could be made in such proceedings.

     (5) For the purposes of this section, words shall be treated as published by one person (referred to in this subsection as the publisher) innocently in relation to another person if and only if the following conditions are satisfied:

     (a) that the publisher did not intend to publish them of and concerning that other person, and did not know of circumstances by virtue of which they might be understood to refer to him; or

     (b) that the words were not defamatory on the face of them, and the publisher did not know of circumstances by virtue of which they might be understood to be defamatory of that other person;

     and in either case that the publisher exercised all reasonable care in relation to the publication; and any reference in this subsection to the publisher shall be construed as including a reference to any servant or agent of his who was concerned with the contents of the publication.

     (6) Subsection (1) (b) shall not apply in relation to the publication by any person of words of which he is not the author unless he proves that the words were written by the author without malice.

389. 
     admin Says:
     February 4th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

     If you are not a troll, send me an email by clicking on the “Contact Us” link at the bottom of the page. I’ll respond to you.

390. 
     Issues for foreign doctors to think about Says:
     February 4th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

     There were no statements in my posts which were made in a definitive sense, they are merely my own opinions based on my own observations, be it opinions about SMC, about the working conditions, or the foreign grads who have come and left. Of course, I could very well be very wrong!

     However, I trust that readers of this forum are intelligent, educated people and will do their own careful research before coming to their own conclusions. They will not blindly believe what is written by one person, and by no means be swayed by my opinions if their research proves otherwise. Different opinions are ingredients for a stimulating discussion, it helps to develop lateral thinking, and should be encouraged if Singapore is to advance and prosper, right? Cheers!

391. 
     Vote for SGP instead of SIN for Singapore Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

     this is getting hilarious…

392. 
     Vote for SGP instead of SIN for Singapore Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

     no… more like ridiculous.

     aren’t we moving into the era of ‘freedom of speech’?
     as long as the comments are not racist nor pointed at anyone in particular, it’s perfectly legal (read recent case of facebook racist comments? that’s different story.)

     this Prof guy, for all we know, doesn’t even use real name as is seemingly a troll, as he doesn’t even know what to do before giving out threats about whatever ‘actions’ that may be taken nor the guts to tell who he actually is.

     It is simply for the reason of giving reasonable opinions that ANY forums exist.

     If Prof is really a medical Prof, I feel sad for my friends in medical school here though. Seriously saddened.

     It’s not hilarious, but rather ridiculous

393. 
     doctor Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

     Hi,

     I am currently working in Malaysia. I have 7 years experience in clinical setting (including HO training ). I got my MRCP(UK) and M.Med(S’pore). Can I join AST(cardiology) in SIngapore ? and how long it takes to become a consultant ?

     What is my post now if I work in Singapore with the above degrees ?

     Thank you in advance

394. 
     mohh Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

     Hi doctor
     We thank you for your interest in coming to work in Singapore as an AST Cardiology and would like to invite you to KL.

     http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/malaysia_career_info_session.html

     Date: 27 Feb 4pm
     Venue: Meeting Room 401
     Kuala Lumpur Convention Centre
     Kuala Lumpur City Centre
     50088 Kuala Lumpur

     There will be opportunities available for interviews during our visits.

     Interested applicants are encouraged to submit their applications via email to: physician@mohh.com.sg with:

     full personal particulars/CVs
     contact number/email address (important)
     educational and professional qualifications
     career history
     present & expected salary and
     name of 2 professional referees

395. 
     Kevin Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

     Issues on foreign doctor, and vote for sgp ..

     I think the prof’s threats were directed at somebody else ..

     take time, and read through ..

396. 
     depends Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 8:43 pm

     There is no such thing as freedom of speech in Singapore. Not even in the US, as Americans are very litigious. And most definitely not in Singapore, where the government doesn’t subscribe to the notion in the manner that the US constitution believes, and where Singaporeans are becoming increasingly litigious, based of what my lawyer friends tell me.

     And listen up in your business law classes please. Framing your words as your personal opinion ‘only’ does not protect you from litigation of libel, defamation or prosecution from sedition anywhere in the world.

     This is the most common myth held by normally unschooled and childish people.

     I recall a fat female blogger here who was threatened with a lawsuit, xiasuay, also believed in the same myth and tried to defame her victim the second time by repeatedly ending her words with “just my opinion”. LOL. Very comical and low-class.

397. 
     depends Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

     Litigation is not a means and should not be seen as an obstruction to human rights pursuits, IF you’re smart enough to have big picture view.

     Just as you think, THINK being the operative word, that you have the ‘right’ to say what you wish (you don’t), the rest of society has the right to defend their reputation if anyone else feels that what has been said about him/her/anything is untrue and has affected his reputation.

     The constitution is not meant to uphold any one person, but tries its best to serve the greater good of the whole society.

398. 
     kadima Says:
     February 5th, 2010 at 9:09 pm

     to all doctors here who are interested to practice in australia please see this link

     http://www.amc.org.au/index.php/img

     doctors who have received their basic degree from the UK/Ireland need NOT take the Australian Medical Council exams

     AMC exams are held in Singapore too! NUS grads do score very well in AMC exams and are very highly regarded in Australian medical circles.

399. 
     Oh dear Says:
     February 6th, 2010 at 11:35 am

     Oh dear. I hope that the statements/threats made by hospadmin/Prof (whom we now know is the same person) are that of his own, and are not made in the capacity of a representative of MOHH.

     His behaviour not only fails to inspire any confidence, it generates fear and hesitation in anyone who is thinking of working in Singapore.

     If his director in MOHH finds out about this, he will probably be subject to disciplinary action himself.

400. 
     voiceoftruth Says:
     February 6th, 2010 at 7:45 pm

     kadima, who are you kidding?

     If NUS grads are so regarded like you claim, that you even added a “very” (LOL), why aren’t they exempt from the AMC exams like British grads?!

     I’ve had local grads of the professional courses who say that they totally disregard their alma maters when it comes to accreditation of machines that they use in their trade. They purchase the machines directly from overseas supplies and overseas universities (in UK, Europe and US), and apply for accreditation to the overseas universities.

     When I asked them why don’t they ever consult or consult their alma mater, they said that the people staffing and studying in their alma mater do not have an idea about what’s going on in the industry and are utterly backwards, and that its only after graduating that they learnt that all they were taught were quote “old stuff that are completely out of date” unquote.

     It was then that I understood why local universities are so hopeless in R&D and achieved nothing in that front.

401. 
     kadima Says:
     February 8th, 2010 at 9:31 am

     Doctors who can pass the MRCP exams/MBBS exams recently will have no difficulties passing the AMC exams. There was this report which showed that NUS grads do have a high pass rate when they are attempting the AMC exams.

     south african/european grads have to sit for the AMC exams too

     to doctors who are interested in sitting for the Australian Medical Council exams which are held regularlyl in Singapore:

     AMC launches support for exam candidates
     The Australian Medical Council (AMC) has launched some new initiatives to support International Medical Graduates (IMGs) preparing for Australia’s medical screening exam. The AMC Handbook of Multiple Choice Questions (MCQs) is a major publication designed to assist IMGs prepare for the AMC’s MCQ examination. It contains almost 600 multiple choice questions drawn from the AMC examination banks. The handbook covers all disciplines and clinical categories and contains a complete multidisciplinary 150 question MCQ paper. To purchase the book, go to https://store.amc.org.au
     The AMC has also launched a new online trial examination, which provides prospective MCQ candidates with a responsive and up-to-date exam experience. The new examination links to the AMC Handbook of MCQs and contains 50 questions in the format of the AMC MCQ. For more information on the exam, go to http://www.amc.org.au/index.php/img/exam/mcq/trial-examination

402. 
     eretz Says:
     February 9th, 2010 at 10:56 am

     Australia: English test for migration revamp to favour doctors, nurses and teachers

     for doctors/nurses/teachers

     http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/02/09/australia-english-test-for-migration-revamp-to-favour-doctors-nurses-and-teachers/

403. 
     regarded Says:
     February 11th, 2010 at 8:44 pm

     Having a high pass rate doesn’t justify “very regarded”.

     Very regarded means people see you so up, no need to take the test, just like how graduates of British and Irish medical colleges are exempted. That is “very regarded”.

     High pass rates just means most of the grads can pass the test. This is just simple logic.

404. 
     regarded Says:
     February 11th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

     And if you need to compare South Africa to save the day, we know that the situation is very bad. Europe also consists of developing countries like Russia and other Eastern/Southern european states (Slovakia, Czech) that aren’t exactly what people consider to be first-world.

405. 
     Pieces Says:
     February 18th, 2010 at 11:04 am

     Hi all, I am new to this website but spent the last 2.5 hours reading most of the comments. Very informative and relished going through some of the more heated debates.

     Anyway, my agenda are really to find out the salary and working conditions of an ophthalmic registrar (service or AST) in Singapore. I have been asked for my salary expectation by the NUH.

     I am a second year registrar in ophthalmology in the UK and planned to returned to South East Asia for personally reasons. My salary after conversion is circa S$10K pcm before tax. (Could have been more but the British pound has plummeted thanks to the #*@%# bankers….)

     I’ll be grateful for any insights.

406. 
     juniordoc Says:
     February 18th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

     Hi there,
     I am a foreign medical graduate now on my way to finish my MRCP (PACES).
     As I am interestedd in working here,I’d be grateful if someone in this forum could kindly share the information on if I shall have a chance to get into a specialty training.
     And my next bubble is the possible salary scale for a newcomer like me.

407. 
     hi Says:
     February 19th, 2010 at 9:05 am

     to pieces
     Hospadmin posted this in the past

     HO pay 2600
     MO pay 3500
     Reg pay 6000

     So u can quote this loh

408. 
     kevinchu Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 3:53 am

     The HO pay of 2600 is before on call and housing allowances or after?
     Is it the average salary of housemen in both Nhg and Singhealth?

     Im a foreign medical graduate and curious

409. 
     sgnurse Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

     Hi dr,
     HO pay of $2,600 is before on call and housing allowance.
     Now it is under MOHH.
     U single or moving with family?

410. 
     kevinchu Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

     I’m single. Will there be lesser allowances for me?

411. 
     sgnurse Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

     Oh single is good
     u can email me at sgnurse@gmail.com.
     I can tell u more.

412. 
     kevinchu Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

     Btw, are the allowances for oncall 240 for HOs as well? And how many calls are there in average in a month?
     What are the housing allowances like? I read somewhere that it’s around 700. Is it true?

413. 
     kevinchu Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

     Hmm. Sgnurse. My email client says that ur email doesnt exist.

414. 
     anilbn Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

     hi all,

     I would like to consider the option of doing my medical postgraduation in singapore..i have mbbs degree from AFMC, which is recognised by singapore..i request kind information in this regard as to what is the procedure to get into post graduation residency in singapore..i am interested to specialise in paediatrics..also is there fees for this or any scholarships are available?…

415. 
     anilbn Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

     hi all,

     I would like to consider the option of doing my medical postgraduation in singapore..i have mbbs degree from AFMC, which is recognised by singapore..i request kind information in this regard as to what is the procedure to get into post graduation residency in singapore..i am interested to specialise in paediatrics..also is there fees for this or any scholarships are available?…

416. 
     juniordoc Says:
     February 20th, 2010 at 8:13 pm

     Hi there,
     Could someone kindly share an information about the specialist training opportunities for a foreign medical graduate after joining the public service there.If so,shall I know the timeframe into training pool from the start of a clinical service?
     Next thing is that, being aware of a new medical education system in S’pore like residency, is it only meant for the locals? Can the foreign doctors have a chance to join that somehow?
     When it comes to matter of salary,can a person with family decently earn a living while on the way to training?

     I believe S’pore is the best place in Asia for foreign medical grads who would be treated equally with regards to merit.

417. 
     mohh Says:
     February 21st, 2010 at 1:26 am

     Hi all
     We thank you for your interest in working in Singapore
     Come to our website to find out more about working life in Singapore.

     http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/index.html

418. 
     anilbn Says:
     February 21st, 2010 at 1:32 am

     are foreign medical graduates eligible for the residency program? like me from India with medical degree from a college recognised in singapore…what is the procedure ?

419. 
     sgdr Says:
     February 21st, 2010 at 7:31 am

     Yes lah
     Singapore believes in meritocracy.
     All junior doctors are eligible to apply residency.
     http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/residency/index.html
     This year program close already, need to wait next year.
     Also have old system but it is last year already
     Anyway, welcome to Singapore.
     I think u send email to ask MOHH better

420. 
     observer Says:
     February 21st, 2010 at 12:16 pm

     note that mohh and hospadmin are likely the same person, and the latter have promised not to participate in this forum and not to advertise here after having a spat with people who have different views. just read through the comments above, especially those from hospadmin, prof and starwars.

     if you come to work here, expect to face more of these people, in real life.

421. 
     juniordr Says:
     February 21st, 2010 at 1:09 pm

     Come to think of it,
     mohh=hospadmin=prof=starwars

     These administrators are a disgrace to Singapore so stop advertising for foreign drs to work in Singapore.
     It is already so competitive in Singapore and we should protect our medical care system from cheap labour elsewhere.
     Allowing medisave to be used overseas will depress the salaries of private specialists and deter public specialists from leaving.

     This means less specialist jobs for junior doctors in future and I can bet that pay will stagnate like the GPs.

     This is bad for Singapore doctors so we should petition the health minister to stop recruiting foreign doctors!

422. 
     whattodo Says:
     February 21st, 2010 at 8:54 pm

     what to do? even our health minister is foreign born. just shut up and bear with it. or emigrate and be a foreign talent elsewhere. this country is hopeless. citizens are second class. foreigners are first class. uniquely singapore. thanks to our genius leaders. vote wisely.

423. 
     laughing doc Says:
     February 23rd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

     thinking about emigrations?
     US president is of a Black origin..
     UK Royal Family is a cluster of the descendents from Germans.
     What More?? Browse on web…
     So it’s no point to think about the ethnic,religion,origin or where-abouts of a person on earth as the world is now a Global Village.
     People migrate for the better place and job for a decent living as far as the professionals are concerned.
     One should aware that every professional immigrant in SG is contributing the country’s income and wellbeing ,while they are content with the salary earned.This is by no means called “Cheap Labour”.
     Do not ever belittle them!Otherwise emigrants from the island state to the western countries shall face the same chaper in their life story!!!

424. 
     AAA Says:
     March 1st, 2010 at 1:13 am

     doctor’s life is tough. but need to bear with it

425. 
     sgnurse Says:
     March 1st, 2010 at 9:19 am

     doc life tough but make so much money
     we nurse work equally hard but pay is low!
     Life’s not fair, must quickly grab one doctor to be husband then life will improve and can go holiday with him!

426. 
     howto Says:
     March 1st, 2010 at 9:46 am

     how to go holiday when both are so busy?

427. 
     whatajoke Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 9:04 am

     laughing dr wrote in 423:One should aware that every professional immigrant in SG is contributing the country’s income and wellbeing ,while they are content with the salary earned.This is by no means called “Cheap Labour”.

     so why r doctors from Non traditional source nations paid lesser than singaporean drs? please explain

     why aren’t we recruiting more doctors from Japan and South Korea, UK?

428. 
     asa Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 11:16 am

     how much does a pediatrician make?
     what about a

429. 
     to asa Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 11:48 am

     stop asking how much they make, if u wanna be rich don’t be a doctor. they really dun make as much as lawyers, property agents, businessmen etc etc etc…

430. 
     disagree Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 pm

     are u sure doctor make less than lawyer or property agent
     Dr. Ng Eng Hen was apparently making $400K a month before he join politics.

     How many lawyers or property agents make that much money.

431. 
     surgeon Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 5:31 pm

     Specialised surgeon – $27,977
     Advocate and solicitor – $11,147

     Dont be red eyed
     Surgeons are the best paid in Singapore cause we spend a long time acquiring our skills and we can charge a premium because of that.

     We earn double that of lawyers. This is no bullshit cause it is published data.

     Dont be a troll and create problem!

432. 
     jack Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 8:15 pm

     isn’t it inaccurate to compare a specialised surgeon’s salary with a lawyer’s salary? one can become a fully qualified lawyer between the ages of 23 to 26 (depending on gender and place of study). it is not possible to be a specialised surgeon at this age. it is therefore perhaps more apt to compare doctors and lawyers in general.

     if we compare the amounts earned by both professions in the same age group, i doubt you would reach the same conclusion.

433. 
     .a. Says:
     March 2nd, 2010 at 9:45 pm

     actually if you look at the other thread with the lawyers, “legalhr” pointed out that a lawyer with 4 years experience will easily get 110-180k depending on bonus.
     MO pay according to above poster is 3500.

     of course if you compare the superstars in each profession there are top surgeons and top lawyers all earning way more than the average lawyer/ GP can ever hope to make.

434. 
     lawstudent Says:
     March 4th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

     Law firms hike salaries, slice bonuses
     Starting pay at top outfits hits $5,200 a month as battle for talent hots up

     http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,375152,00.html

     Hey your data is old.
     Now starting pay of lawyers is $5200 compared to $8400 ($2400+6000 bond )for houseman
     We are slowly catching up pay of doctors but our school fees are lower and 1 year shorter and also we get more in the end.

435. 
     ofcourse Says:
     March 4th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

     but doctors are more respected. remember those lawyer jokes?

436. 
     kadima Says:
     March 5th, 2010 at 9:23 am

     Australian Immigration Visa Options for doctors and nurses

     http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medical-practitioners/visa-options-doctors.htm
     http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medical-practitioners/nurses.htm
     http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medical-practitioners/medical-practitioners/

437. 
     mcbing Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 6:10 am

     Hi! Sorry … new here … I was wondering about the payscales for Singapore docs especially physician consultants … I just cannot find any published payscales! Can someone shed some light on this?

     I understand that in Singapore there are specialties difficult to recruit into … can I know which ones they are?

     Does that mean the remuneration will be higher?

     Sorry … soo many questions …

438. 
     Scary Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 9:05 am

     Is there any freedom of speech in Singapore? I cannot imagine my self working in such organization/place.

     In the US, you can say whatever you want. Please go to scutwork.com, to see what people say about every teaching hospital in the US. No “actions” were taken by the hospital, faculty, or government. Every person should have freedom to speak, in it reflects quality of life in where you live.

     I respect admin’s responds to the threat.

439. 
     Normal Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 9:52 am

     There’s a freedom of speech in Singapore. You are free to say something nice about the authorities. In fact the more flowery your speech, the more likely it is that you’ll have a good life here.

     Seriously though, freedom of speech is overrated. If you can say whatever you want but no mechanism exists to correct underlying problems, you are still back at square one.

     What’s lacking in this world is not freedom of speech but people with true courage.

440. 
     freedom Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 10:59 am

     We know the dangers of too much freedom, but we are talking about the appalling lack of freedom here.

     Even if one is giving constructive criticism, he gets shot down.

     Just look at the pathetic state of the newspapers here – none of the writers ever write any article even hinting at criticizing government policies. They all sing the same tune day in and day out, singing praises ad nauseam, though once in a dark blue moon they will publish forum letters talking negatively about govt policies (perhaps AFTER getting approvals from the top).

441. 
     Normal Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

     I think it’s just a fact of life in Asia. Human rights, freedom of speech, etc is just simply a western concept, and given the mentality of most Asians, I am not convinced that democracy is the best system either. Either way, Asia has always followed one rule: those with money and power win, full stop. And truthfully, it’s the case everywhere even in the so called United States. I lived there for 10 years, so I think I would know.

442. 
     Kevin Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

     Re: freedom speech, I’d rather live in a country with less public speaking rights – meaning, mindlessly criticising the government, the road, the cat, the dog, the neighbor .. than to live in a country where you have great freedom, and also the freedom to get shot for no reason, robbed and raped because of ‘temporary insanity’ and also drugs and such are sort of constitutionally enshrined as basic rights.

     Compared to freedom of speech in – Pyongyong, Tehran and .. maybe Kinshasha, Singapore is much much much better, and you don’t get shot for speaking your mind, while compared to the Developed Western World, has one of the safest place for waking up and heading out without the fear of a 9 mm pointed at your face for a couple of $ robbery ..

     I agree with Normal – Freedom of speech is over-rated and expounded by the democracies who can’t guarantee a safe place to live – take for example India – I saw a policeman get beat up because he arrested a politico’s son for running a red light.

     And, in another country, a lot of guys sitting and critisizing the government and none of them bothering about exercising their voting rights to bring in change, and then cursing every mother of son for their own miseries ..

     Life is not perfect, and Singapore is my first choice for safe living ..

443. 
     freedom Says:
     March 11th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

     Singapore is a good place for foreigners.

444. 
     Scary Says:
     March 12th, 2010 at 12:06 am

     I can deal with “a little less of freedom of speech”

     I am confused about MO, registrar, specialist/consultant. I read the explanation on earlier post.

     If I am a US or UK trained physician (Internist), when I start my carrier in Spore, what would I become? What if I finish my Cardiology fellowship?

     Thanks

445. 
     middleclass Says:
     March 12th, 2010 at 9:31 am

     “But we either believe in democracy or we not. If we do, then, we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from the any democratic processes, other than by the ordinary law of the land, should be allowed… If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then, they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then, no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at nought.”
     - Lee Kuan Yew as an opposition leader, April 27, 1955

446. 
     to mcbing Says:
     March 12th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

     (to mcbing)
     i believe physician consultants (the internal med people, not the cardio/ gastro people) should be getting 9-10k thereabouts. add in 3 mth bonus annual pay package around 150k.

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