Doctors’ pay

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Doctors’ pay

May 26th, 2007

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If you haven’t noticed, doctors rank very well in the top 100 jobs mentioned previously. Specialised surgeons (“specialist” doctors who perform surgeries) ranked number 1 with a 75th-percentile income of $22,821, while GPs came in 4th with $14,653.

These are only the 75th-percentile salaries. We can only speculate that at higher percentiles, doctors make much more.

Recall that Manpower Minister Dr Ng Eng Hen once said “You’re getting a bargain for the ministers you get… I worked half as much and earn(ed) five times more when I was in the private sector.” (Channelnewsasia, 9 September 2003)

Dr Ng was a consultant surgeon in private practice before he joined politics.

Even “part-time” general practitioners make a very comfortable living.

Locums are doctors who substitute temporarily for other doctors (see Wordnet definition). They are those whom you see when your family physician goes on a holiday.

The market rate for locums’ pay is $60 to $70 an hour. And it is not uncommon for a locum to get up to $700 per day.

But you ask: Do they get stand-in jobs all the time? The answer is yes. Lots of full-time doctors in private clinics and hospitals frequently need locums to cover them.

By the way, doctors are one of the most respected professions in Singapore. They deserve to be paid well.

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931 Responses to “Doctors’ pay”


  1. Income of GP Doctors | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore Says:

    [...] to be a doctor, work hard and aim to be specialists who can earn much much more than GPs (see my post on doctors’ [...]


  2. neuro Says:

    what does 75th percentile income mean??


  3. admin Says:

    neuro, it means your pay is higher than 75% of the surveyed population.


  4. lin Says:

    I’d like to ask…Do polytechnic graduates have a higher chance of becoming a specialist if the carry on to uni?


  5. admin Says:

    lin, I’m not sure if poly grads can get into NUS med. But let’s assume some of them can. Do they have a higher chance? I’d say no. What they have is a fair chance like everybody else.


  6. lin Says:

    Um…Are there other options for fresh poly biomed graduates?i.e.med sch overseas…if there is can you give examples of med school that accepts poly grads


  7. shah Says:

    hi there..can you please tell me how much is salary of Medical registrar in singapore hospitals??thanks


  8. admin Says:

    shah, I’m not sure about that. Maybe $8k basic?


  9. claudia Says:

    What is the estimated monthly salary for a average JC teacher and a uni lecturer?


  10. visitor Says:

    dr ng is obviously spouting nonsense, 5 times the pay? so doctors earn millions a year?


  11. Dude Says:

    Shah, registrars get pretty crap pay. NHG quoted me something like $8,000 for an associate consultant. Apparently though the pay rises quite rapidly when you become a consultant then senior consultant, although I suppose by then you can go to the dark side and do private practice.

    Admin, in your post, you mention that GPs get $14,000. The table actually says “General Physician” which has a different implication to “General Practitioner” to people in the medical field. Can you clarify which it actually is? I’m wondering if I should bother coming back to Singapore to work.


  12. doraman Says:

    good day.can anyone enlighten me on how much a Medical Officer can expect to get for basic salary and after allowance?


  13. tanya Says:

    MO starting pay fresh after housemanship is around 3500, when i first started. each yearly pay raise dependent on performance, maybe 100 to 300.


  14. Ara Says:

    hey.. can anyone tell me the basic salary for medical technologist in singapore, with just a diploma?


  15. ghostrecon Says:

    you said (it is not uncommon for a locum to get up to $700 per day.)

    sorry dude ,, only 4 locums per months are allowed

    hahahah


  16. observer Says:

    A specialist doctor getting 5000 SGD a month is good, medium or bad pay?


  17. Anonymous Says:

    Frankly I think $60k p.a. is bad pay, at least for the level of skill (not to mention the risk too) expected from doctors. It doesn’t make sense to me that you can hire 5 specialists for the price of 1 investment banker, when doctors are supposed to save lives (and IB’ers only make ours more miserable). Seriously, the world is screwed up.


  18. observer Says:

    Thanks anonymous. How much does a medical suprintendent or director of a hospital get in govt / pvt hospital or healthcare facility? what is the tax rate at $60 K pa?


  19. observer Says:

    1. What is the average salary for a doctor with a diploma in hospital management in a hospital/healthcare facility in Singapore?

    2. Are there any openings for Aviation Medical Examiner? If so, what salary range can be expected?


  20. pali Says:

    I am a specialist Psychiatrists from UK. I have also completed Higher specialist training here in UK. My current salary in terms of pounds is somehwere around £70K per annum ( Take home £4000 a month). I was about to apply for a Consultant Job In singapore and there were asking me how much salary do I expect. Can somebody guide me please


  21. dorachan Says:

    pali pls contact me at [email protected] to discuss in details.


  22. Michael Says:

    Hi, for a qualified Gynae, having completed specialisation and 4 years of post specialisation experience in Philippines, what is the average pay expected ? I am trying find a job for my Fiance’ here.


  23. mathew k Says:

    I am a general physician(doctor) with english degree is interested to work as registrar in medicine . with 20 years experiance. what will the salary I get. living expence. accomodation cost ect?


  24. michelle lee Says:

    Can you please tell me how much a Consultant Physician would expect to be paid at NUS (before tax). Does it make a difference if one has a PhD? Many thanks!


  25. medical administrator Says:

    MO earn $3500-5000
    Reg $5000-7000
    Associate Consultant $7000-9000
    Consultatant $9000 up

    So it depends on how many years experience you have.
    Generally doctors are very well paid in Singapore and so do consider the move to Singapore.
    We also have one of the lowest personal income tax rates in the world.


  26. Michael Says:

    Dear Medical Administrator,

    thanks for the reply.

    I was just wondering what is the expected salary scale, for a OB-GYNEA ? And what is the current demand for such specialist ?

    I am trying to ease my fiance’s transition here.

    Thanks a lot, and appreciate your earlier posting as well.

    Cheers


  27. medical administrator Says:

    Demand not very great for ob-gyn but she can apply thru mohh, singhealth or nhg.

    link


  28. Michael Says:

    Thanks a lot, MA.

    I will follow up on that, I was looking at the Virgen Milagrosa University of Philippines, and it seems not in the list. Similarly, there are no listed universities of Philippines in the List.

    I will anyway, expedite directly and see.

    Greatly Appreciate your assistance and advice.

    Thanks, and Cheers


  29. roger Says:

    dear all
    can i find out what is expected salary for Orthopaedics registrar / assoc con / consultant in the restructured hospitals?
    does it depend more on the operations performed?
    thanks for all the help


  30. Civil Servant Says:

    Orthopedics pay a lot of money.
    Reg get 6k+
    A/c 8k+
    Consultant 10k+

    For A/C and Con, the more surgery u do, the more u get paid. That’s why long waiting list to specialise in Orthopedics.


  31. roger Says:

    @civil servant: thanks alot for the info. was initially under the impression that majority of their pay is based on surgeries. cheers!


  32. Praveen Says:

    Sir,
    I was wondering how much experience do u require before working as Consultant in Anaesthesia? I have 6 years experience in Anaesthesia out of which 4 years is in Ireland in top hospitals

    Thanks,
    Praveen


  33. Civil Servant Says:

    For an applicant who wishes to practise as a specialist in Singapore, he must first obtain specialist accreditation from the Specialists Accreditation Board (SAB). The application form for specialist accreditation may be downloaded from the website: http://www.hpp.moh.gov.sg/SAB/SAB_H....

    Upon obtaining a Specialist Accreditation certificate from the SAB, the doctor is required to register his name in the Register of Specialists with the Singapore Medical Council before he is allowed to practise as a specialist in his field of specialty. The application form for specialist registration may be downloaded from the website under ‘Download Forms’. A one-time fee of SGD$500 is applicable for specialist registration.

    Doctors applying for specialist registration must register at least 1 registrable postgraduate qualification into the Register for Medical Practitioners. Please refer to FAQs on Medical Registration for details on the procedure for application for registration of registrable post-graduate qualifications.


  34. dr.dharamvir Says:

    what will be the pay scale for an mbbs doctor with 7yrs exp in singapore general hospital adn will i get a housing allowance


  35. hospadmin Says:

    Well MO can get 3.5k to 6k so if u no post grad qualification, then should be around there.
    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ca...


  36. salmonela Says:

    Hi,

    I am medical officer with 6 years of working experience both in hospital and district clinic setting and now working in an private hospital in Malaysia and with undergrade degree recognized by Singapore gov.

    I have part 1 FRCR in clinical oncology (UK) and now preparing for my final fellowship exam. I will obtain my MBA degree next year and will consider to work in Singapore for further training.

    can someone guide me

    1. I will work as registrar or M.O. in Singapore?
    2. Does MBA give me any advantage in term of job position and salary?

    Thank so much in advance.

    salmonela


  37. sg doc Says:

    First, what is your current pay in ringgit?


  38. hosp admin Says:

    Hi we thank you for your interest in considering a career in Singapore. As you may have found out by now, Singapore believes in meritocracy and will treat all doctors equally (whether they are locally trained or not)

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ca...

    1. Registrar
    Registrars are experienced doctors with a recognised postgraduate qualification who have completed the Basic Specialist Training (BST). They are primarily responsible for the overall supervision and day-to-day running of the wards, including patient care. In addition, they will supervise and guide House Officers and Medical Officers.

    There are 2 types of Registrars namely Advanced Specialist Training (AST) Registrar and Service Registrar.

    AST Registrars are doctors who have completed BST and have been appointed by the Joint Committee for Specialist Training (JCST) as Advanced Specialist Trainee to undergo advanced specialist training in one of the 35 advanced specialties.

    Service Registrars are doctors who have completed BST who possess a postgraduate degree recognised by the JCST for Advanced Specialist Training, but have been unsuccessful in their AST application or are waiting for a confirmed AST post. These doctors will have to be assessed to be ready and competent to perform the duties & responsibilities of a Registrar before being appointed as Service Registrar.

    Eligibility Criteria To be eligible for the Registrar position, applicants must satisfy the following conditions:

    must possess a postgraduate medical degree that is recognised by JCST for entry into Advanced Specialist Training
    must be granted medical registration by the Singapore Medical Council (SMC)
    must be granted an Employment Pass to work in Singapore (applicable to non-Singaporean/ non- Singapore PR)
    must possess the relevant years of experience (retrospective recognition of training received overseas on a case-by-case basis)

    So if you fulfill this, you will be appointed a registrar.

    Interested applicants can send their applications to:

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : [email protected]

    2. MBA may help you in your career advancement if you decide to switch into hospital administration like me.

    Regards


  39. rams Says:

    hi i am a house officer in madras medical college, india. i want to know about the opportunities and salaries in singapore for a doctor freshly graduated from india, and other eligibility requirements. can anyone guide me please.. thank you


  40. hosp admin Says:

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/11537094...

    Hi you can check whether your school in India is recognised or not.

    1. All-India Institute of Medical Sciences
    2. Christian Medical College, Vellore
    3. Armed Forces Medical College, Maharashtra University of Health Sciences
    4. Maulana Azad Medical College, Delhi University
    5. Jawaharlal Institute of Postgraduate Medical Education & Research, Pondicherry University
    6. Lady Hardinge Medical College (New Delhi), University of Delhi
    7. Grant Medical College (Mumbai), Maharashtra University of Health Sciences
    8. St. John’s Medical College (Bangalore), Rajiv Gandhi University of Health Sciences
    9. Madras Medical College (Chennai), Tamil Nadu Dr.M.G.R. Medical University

    HO pay 2600
    MO pay 3500
    Reg pay 6000

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ca...


  41. salmonela Says:

    Dear all,

    Thank Hosp Admin and Sig doc

    I am earning RM 6-7k per month

    I am still confuse whether i am able to work as AST registrar in Singapore or not with my current qualification in the field of radiation oncology??

    Do i need to write in or submit my resume to MOH (S) for them to evaluate first???

    The salary offered still important consideration for me. I am expected to have sponsorship from local hospital for my final fellowship exam with short term attachment in UK and good remunaration when i come back to Malaysia. However, Singapore would offer me with good training and hand on experience.

    The MBA is for my future use, not interested to be hospital admin. I don’t think MOH will take this into consideration in term of the salary they are going to offer. Will they??

    Hope somebody can guide me..

    Thank and warmest regard

    salmonela


  42. sg doc Says:

    Do not confuse MOHH with MOH. MOHH is a commercial entity that supposedly serves as an agent. I suggest you write in directly to a restructured hospital of your choice. They do hire quite a fair number of foreign doctors. If you go through an agent, ask exactly what they do and their rates. If I were you, I prefer to be in full control.


  43. Michael Says:

    Hi Sg Doc

    I was getting the impression that MOHH Holdings is the holdings company for the two hospital clusters, Singhealth and National Healthcare group, and not per-se a Recruiting agency.

    Maybe somebody can clarify.

    My fiance is hoping to get here in September, and with her Gynae specialisation, any advice would be helpful

    Thanks


  44. sg doc Says:

    Sorry, I have been out of touch. After reading it’s website’s About page, I agree MOHH is indeed a holding company with major national objectives and not a recruitment agency as I had claimed. Still, there’s no harm writing in to a hospital of your choice, whether it be a private one or a government-linked one, unless you are very sure MOHH’s list of healthcare groups (incl the polyclinics) are sufficient for you.


  45. Salmonela Says:

    Thank Hosp Admin, I think i got the answer already after went through the Academic and Medicine website.

    Thank again

    Salmonela


  46. Michael Says:

    noted sg doc.

    I intend to get her to personally apply, once she is here. I was advised to go to Government hospitals, as the government hospitals generally speed up the SMC approval process.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers

    Michael


  47. AK Says:

    Hi
    What is the current pay scale for Registrars in Singapore? since I have 2 years post membership experience, would I be able to demand year 2 registrar or year 3 position from my employer?
    AK


  48. AK2 Says:

    hosp admin posted above the following:
    HO pay 2600
    MO pay 3500
    Reg pay 6000

    I suppose Registrar doctors earn around S$70-80k per annum. Isn’t this low compared to other industries?

    Can I say that non-specialist doctors can only earn a max of about $100k, while the sky’s the limit for specialists?


  49. salmonela Says:

    Hi dear all,

    My friend’s husband just come back from singapore, he used to work as registrar there for few months. His salary is above SGD 7500… Anyone can verify this??

    Salmonela


  50. AK Says:

    Thanks AK2/hosp admin


  51. hosp admin Says:

    Well $6000 is basic starting pay. Those who completed NS will get more.

    There is still bonuses and night call allowance.
    Night call is $240 per weekday and $340 for weekends.

    So reaching 7500 is no problem as some disciplines have more than 5 calls a month.


  52. samulla Says:

    hi ..can i know if i can get a job in singapore,,,i m postgraduate diploma in aneasthesiology with 2yrs experience….i woul like to know wat wiill be salary &the post &the procedure to apply…
    thanks


  53. anaesthesia mo Says:

    how much does an anaesthesia registrar earn monthly? consultant level? as compared to a family physician?


  54. MO Says:

    ENT salary?


  55. bt Says:

    ENT in private practice must be earning millions. Business Times 2 weeks ago featured the HUGE house of one ENT surgeon. It’s really HUGE.


  56. ENT millionaire Says:

    Yup
    ENT can earn a lot but difficult to get in and must co pay for training.
    Average pay for specialised surgeon can reach 20k a month.


  57. bobby Says:

    only 20k? Thats what a telemarketer makes! Haha… 200k would be nicer… Matches the pay of a riskless minister…


  58. Hebron Says:

    Hi,

    How does one progress from Associate consultant post to Consultant post? Is there a time duration or any exit exams to clear?


  59. Hakka Says:

    Thanks for the info all.

    Practised in Singapore for a few years, on cusp of final examinations for AST entry. I confirm salary scale for NSmen is in range of S$5K-6K. AST pay is fairly consistent across specialities at S8K or so including allowances and academic/research flexi bonus. Understood in Radiology and Ortho surgery, Associate Consultant pay averaged S$10-12K including reasonable added for surgeries/procedures etc.

    For the tax rate and compared to other professions, S’pore doctors make good money. Averaged out vs. other occupations in other countries, S’pore doctors are doing pretty good. Exceptions would be the US and possibly UK where their payscale is significantly higher. But much much better than India, Continental Europe etc. I hear from friends.

    Bobby, if you want to make money, go into front office banking. My friend has 3 years experience in proprietary trading and makes over a million a year. And even then, he is in a company that doesn’t pay that well compared to private hedge funds and investment banks. I left medicine to go to London for a banking job and work about 50-60 hours a week monday-friday only and AFTER tax, make equal to S$22,000/- per month with only 2 years of banking experience. I won’t have as long a career as I would in medicine and will likely get retrenched or burned out within 10 years or so but my salary is starter pay and with 5 years experience, I will hit at least S$500K without the long hours and stress of medicine. And learning the ropes, I can then invest this money wisely. At the end, I think my friends who stayed in medicine will make just as much as me by retirement but I will get to retire earlier :-)


  60. to hakka Says:

    @hakka:
    wow that’s great info, thanks for sharing!
    it’s posts like this with definite firm figures that can help people make choices about future careers.
    cheers


  61. math k Says:

    what will be the tax if one get 7000 sg$ per month


  62. . Says:

    tax is around 5k.

    but u need to put in your reliefs.

    use this website:
    http://www.iras.gov.sg/Tax%20Calcul...


  63. Michael Says:

    did you try to mean, 5% ??

    The first 20K is tax free, and there are reliefs, and depending upon marital status, there are a lot of benefits.


  64. SK Says:

    How much do consultant radiologists make in Singapore per annum ?


  65. maheenda Says:

    I AM A DOCTOR FROM SRILANKA HAVING MBBS, DIP. IN FAMILY MEDICINE, POST GRAD. DIP. IN COUNCELLING PSYCHOLOGY & PSYCHOSOCIAL WORK ( ALL FROM UNI. OF COLOMBO ). CURRENTLY, IN A STATE TEACHING HOSPITAL AS A MO FOR 12 YEARS AND PART TIME GP ( 48 HOURS A WEEK )FOR > 10 YEARS. WILL I HAVE AN OPPOTUNITY AS A GP IN SIGAPORE ?


  66. Michael Says:

    Maheenda,

    off-hand, I remember University of Colombo is a pre-approved University.

    Approach the hospitals.


  67. Salmonela Says:

    I am fully qualified to work in Singapore. Sent several e mail to singhealth and respective hospital 1 month ago. Till now still no response. Can anyone comment on this?? Is it normal to wait for so long?? From what i know, the respective department is currently short of people.


  68. naina Says:

    Hi, I am USA trained internal medicine physician with fellowhip training as well in a medical subspeciality which I just finished in June.I had to move to Singapore for personal reasons and I am trying to look for a job here.From what I understand I can only get jobs as an associate consultant here. It sounds like a second fellowship/training to me which I am not too excited about considering I already finished one.Any idea what it entails and how long is the duration?Thanks!!!Any info is appreciated.


  69. MOHH Says:

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/&#...

    Associate Consultants and Consultants are Specialists who have completed Basic & Advanced Specialist Training. Besides being responsible for patient care, Consultants are senior doctors who are expected to provide leadership to all levels of staff, including teaching and training.
    Eligibility Criteria To be eligible for the Associate Consultant/Consultant position, applicants must satisfy the following conditions:

    must be accredited as a Specialist by the Specialist Accreditation Board, Ministry of Health
    must be granted medical registration by the Singapore Medical Council (SMC)
    must be granted an Employment Pass to work in Singapore (applicable to non-Singaporean/ non-Singapore PR)
    must possess the relevant years of experience


  70. specialist surgeon Says:

    from the above discussion it seems that specialist surgeons earn above s$ 10k plus additional remuneration depending on the surgeries they do.the question in my mind is how much more do they go to. i am a specialist surgeon with more than 10 years of experience. taking into consideration the incentives what should be the salary expectatiuons and whats the level of taxation and whats the take home?


  71. mohh Says:

    Specialised surgeon – $27,977

    a lot more depending on how many surgery you do and how many years of experience you have

    income tax is also lower than most countries so take home pay is about 80% for top earners (after 20% tax)

    Join us
    we need foreign talents to contribute to our economy and make singapore the Asia Medical Hub.

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ca...


  72. specialised surgeon Says:

    a lot more than s$27k is how much more mohh can u give me an approximate figure. i have a frcs degree from uk which i guess should be acceptable in singapore.


  73. mohh Says:

    Sorry not convenient to post here.
    Can you email my director instead.
    We provide base salary and bonuses depending on performance.

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : [email protected]


  74. a lot more Says:

    It’s A LOT MORE. As mentioned by our minister (read article at top), he made more as a surgeon than as a minister. A minister in Singapore makes S$2-3 million a year. Go figure.


  75. on the ground Says:

    I would advise foreign doctors to check out blogs like angrydoc and gigomole for frank criticism on how working as a doctor is like. If you could be attached for a few weeks, would b even better, rather than move over, and get cultural shock.


  76. Wil Says:

    Could someone please tell me what is the expected salary for a child and adolescent psychiatrist in singapore. I’m going to finish my training in uk in a year time and I have also got a postgraduate diploma in child law.


  77. mohh Says:

    10K++ depending on experience
    Working in Singapore is a wonderful experience

    Eg http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/dr...
    Opportunities for Career and Personal Development
    I came to work in the Department of Emergency Medicine at the National University Hospital, Singapore back in 1994. What attracted me to this place was because I like a strong and able government and, having worked in the UK, USA and a third world country, that was a refreshing change.

    Another reason was to take my career up to the next level. I had a wealth of clinical and teaching experience but my path to an administrative role (i.e. running an emergency department) was blocked due to a lack of opportunities. I decided to move to Singapore and was offered the opportunity to head the department at the hospital. I would like to advise foreign medical graduates who are interested to work in Singapore to pick a field that is less staffed such as biomedical sciences, cardiothoracic surgery and neurology. This way, they can make a greater contribution to the development of these specialties and gain satisfaction from being true pioneers of their respective fields in Singapore.

    However, prospective applicants should know that they would be required to put in the effort and work hard in order to be able to succeed. Those who do would be to reap the rewards and be provided with ample opportunities for career and personal development. They will also be able to broaden their knowledge and gain experience in the handling many unique diseases and conditions.

    by Prof Peter G Manning, Senior Consultant
    Department of Emergency Medicine

    Registration:
    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/11537094...

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : [email protected]


  78. PAEDIATRICS Says:

    Hi,
    Really informative forum,Thanx to u all.
    I am a Pediatrician with MRCPCH and I am in touch with one of the Govt hospitals.I am offered a post of MO for the first year to be followed by promotion to Registrar latter on.I want to know the Slaries and real chance of stepping up to the AST?Will appreicate any advice.


  79. polyclinic patient Says:

    sounds like you’ll be working in a polyclinic. we need more talented foreign doctors as there aren’t enough local ones due to the unforeseen boom in imported population. welcome!


  80. PAEDIATRICS Says:

    HI
    Thanks for the suggestion.No indeed it is a Hospital job.I wan’t advice regading work culture, and Salaries,housing and other allowances and also AST .


  81. hospadmin Says:

    For paeds
    In public sector, only National University Hospital and KK Hospital

    work culture: Paed well respected in Singapore, chance to go private and earn more money

    Salaries: MO salary (3500-5000)exclude bonus
    foreigners get housing allowance
    Since you have MRCPCH,u can negotiate for 500 more per month (postgrad qualification)

    AST competitive and they are thinking of making it seamless i.e like us residency programme.
    Current system is like uk system
    This is to cater to Duke-NUS medical graduates who are graduating next yr.

    Contact my director for further details
    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : [email protected]

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ca...


  82. salmonela Says:

    Dear all,

    I just gone through the process of resume submission and interview by HOD for position of registrar. The whole process took me more than 2 months.

    My senior from Malaysia and most of my friend who work in Sg faced the same problem before. I took their advice to email the HOD before they noticed my application and ask me for interview. HR from respective hospital just don’t know the whereabout of my submission summited 1.5 months ago. Get no respond from Singhealth also..

    A bit disappointment with pubic healthcare system in Sg.

    Still doubtfully that, Sg healthcare system is flexible enough to absorb people like me who have the qualification to jump the queue of local candidate for AST program.

    salmonela


  83. hosp admin Says:

    Sorry for your bad experience

    You will be pleased to note that there is now centralisation of medical manpower recruitment.
    This is done via Ministry of Health Holdings.

    Singapore believes in meritocracy and foreign graduates will not be discriminated against as they are considered as foreign talents.

    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    83 Clemenceau Avenue #15-03
    UE Square, Singapore 239920

    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : [email protected]


  84. hosp admin Says:

    I hope this helps.

    Jobs available from Singhealth
    http://sg.dimension.jobsdb.com/care...

    Jobs available from NHG
    http://sg.dimension.jobsdb.com/care...

    Why Doctors work in Singapore?

    Jobs in Singapore
    Of last year new jobs, nearly half went to foreigners who make up almost a third of Singapore’s work force. Government is said to be taking steps to encourage its migrant workers to stay at their jobs, including the “foreign talents” who are highly educated and skilled expats from the overseas countries. The Singapore government is gathering more talents in its expanded Healthcare Industry. That means more Doctors and Specialists.

    Moving to Singapore
    If you live about 30 minutes away from the center of the city, you can get a three bedroom condominium for $1,300 to $3,000 a month or a room for $400 to $750 a month in the same area. Your children can have access to excellent education facilities at both local and international schools up to the university level. You will find that purchasing and maintaining your own car is quite expensive. The alternative is an efficient and cheap public transport system that covers the whole of Singapore, or to take taxis (quite cheap) and rent a car for special occasions.

    Salaries and Benefits in Singapore
    An accountant can earn an average of US$60,000 while a financial analyst can earn almost US$79,000 a year. A doctor/specialist can earn up USD 350,000 or more a year. Singapore has a five½ workday and 44-hour workweek. Employees receive a fourteen to twenty one day vacation leave for the first year of service and two-three weeks leave and paid sick leave. Salaries of expats are usually competitive especially with an additional package of transportation, housing, education, entertainment and child care allowances plus partial subsidies for dental and medical insurance.

    Local Taxes in Singapore
    Foreign workers who have a work visa or employment permit are usually taxed. Singapore taxes are rather low compared to taxes in Europe and the US. Income tax is about 12-15% and value added tax is about 5%. In fact, personal income tax rates are among the lowest in the world. A foreigner is classified as a tax resident when he has lived in Singapore for 183 days in a year or for three years running.

    Jobs in High Demand in Singapore
    Medical Professionals (Doctors)
    Salaries can go as high as US$350,000 or more a year for Medical Professionals such as Doctors.

    Immigration and Visa Issues in Singapore
    You need a Professional Visit Pass if you are going to take part in a conference or seminar You need a Work Permit or Employment pass if you are going to stay longer and work in Singapore. You can get a pass for professionals and highly skilled workers; or a pass for middle level workers such as technicians; or a work permit for unskilled and semi-skilled workers including domestic help.

    Skilled professionals can obtain permanent residency status and even citizenship.


  85. salmonela Says:

    Is this is the case, the respective hospital should eliminate the option in their website to accept online application for doctor.

    They just unable to handle it.

    salmonela


  86. hosp admin Says:

    well we centralise employment to help in recruitment but there is still a problem of allocation so there is still a need for some overlap.

    Just apply thru mohh which is an organisation dedicated to recruit medical manpower but also apply to the hospital you are interested in so that we can then allocate you to the hospital.


  87. salmonela Says:

    For your info, this is not a separate incident. My friend email the HOD directly to get interview after waited for few months. Only those people who engaged through the recruitment team from Sg to Malaysia gone through the process smoothly.

    There is might be problem with the channel of recruitment or the information/massage delivered.


  88. ft Says:

    Let’s just say that not everybody in Singapore believes in meritocracy.
    There are those who are suspicious of foreign talents and think they steal jobs rather than create jobs


  89. PAEDIATRICS Says:

    HI.
    Thanx again to all of u.It is really interesting forum and really informative.I am thinking to make it as my home page.If some one can answer:
    -Regarding cost of living and educational expances.
    -Take home salary.
    -Citizenship criteria.


  90. angmo doctor Says:

    Q1
    http://www.xpatxperience.com/making...

    Q2
    Depends on qualification and years of experience
    Paed should be $10,000 – $15,000 per month which
    is very high in Singapore.

    Q3.
    http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pag...
    Eligibility

    The following categories of foreigners are eligible to apply for permanent residence:

    (a) Spouse and unmarried children (below 21 years old) of a Singapore Citizen
    (SC)/SingaporePermanent Resident (SPR)
    (b) Aged parents of a SC
    (c) P, Q or S work pass holders
    (d) Investors/Entrepreneurs

    Foreigners residing overseas who are interested to study, work and live in Singapore may apply for in-principle approval for permanent residence by submitting an application through SMC Management Consultants Pte Ltd in Singapore provided they satisfy certain guidelines.


  91. Slave of medicine Says:

    I think most of you have been masked from the reality. I’m a foreign grad and came to singapore as a MO. I totally aware of the issue of overworked and underpaid!!

    Well, probably this article above is true if u are working for private sector, or a specialist. But in general, the medical sector in singapore is like a field of slavery. How many percent of us actually made it through to become a registrar/consultant? even if u made it, how many of u can get into the private sector?

    Why concern on the total amount that you earn p.a? why not look at how many hours you work per week and count your pay per hour?? Believe it or not, our pay per hour is probably lesser than a nurses’ pay per hour.

    How many of you who want to do medicine, full of enthusiasm, thinking that u might make big money out of medicine actually and realise how hard a medical doctor has to work? perhaps a lot of us are/were just way too naive…

    Do you know what is on call? do you know how long does a call last for? and how much do u get out of a call??
    The definition of ON CALL:
    Start working from 7am – 5pm (your daily working hours), then continue from 5pm – 7am the next day (ON CALL); subsequently continue to work like any other day from 7am – 12pm…then you can go home if your colleague is around to cover your daily routine. Please count the number of hours that u have to work non-stop. You think you can take a nap at night when u are ON CALL? forget it!! And working for 30++ hours will give you how much in return??? SGD 110-130 (for HO) and SGD 240-340 (for MO)

    Do you think this is physiological? Do you think this is safe for patients or your own health?
    Do you think with a basic salary + call pay (taxable) that gives u SGD about 3800-4500 per month (before tax) is worth you spending millions to get the medical degree and work like a donkey for the next 10-20 years? How long do you have to work in order to pay back the amount that you’ve spent on your degree??

    If you want to work as a doctor but VERY concern about your pay and increment, i suppose you are not suitable to be in the medical profession. Ask around and find out what is it like to be a doctor before you get yourself into the puddle of mud. If you ask me how many medical doctors actually regret of being a doctor.. i would say more than 80% of us DO regret of being one… not becoz the pay is low. Our welfare and wellbeing is just being ignored by the authority. Doctor is a very nobel profession, however it is also a very inhumane profession that will cause us more harm than good… we are human after all, we are not an immortal.. Even a domestic servant will get to have their meals, toilet breaks and adequate rest on a daily basis!! these are basic human needs!! So what are we??? we are slaves!!!!!


  92. Salmonela Says:

    Wow, impressive comment!!!

    I share the same concern. I am a bit hesitating of going to Sg partially due to the same factor. I met my friends who work as registrar in Sg one month ago and i found them more depress and not like before. They complained of over work round the clock and even during weekend.

    I think my field suppose to be nice one but i heard that most of the doctors in the particular department work until 8-9pm at night, and they consider it normal… so …. i think my condition here is much more comfortable.

    salmonela


  93. hospadmin Says:

    To slave of medicine,
    I think yr view is biased. You can choose a posting without call like polyclinic, accident and emergency, medical admin, health promotion board.

    Since u are a foreign graduate, u can quit the public sector and work under supervision of a senior gp in the private gp sector like Raffles Medical Group, Parkway or Healthway.

    Majority of our doctors are hardworking and work long hours to care for our subsidised patients. Unless you wish healthcare expenditure to increase, pay of doctors will have to be kept low
    and those who are more interested in money rather than helping the poor and needy patients can work in the public hospitals

    Working conditions of doctors are far from ideal and we are trying our best to recruit doctors to help take care of the aging population. Please dont forget that you were hired to ease the workload on local doctors.

    To salmonela
    The situation is improving as we are hiring more doctors to cover the shortfall. Most of the time, doctors stay behind to take care of their patients and they dont usually claim overtime meaning they feel morally obliged to take care of the poor and needy patients.

    If you are concerned about the workload, should uou not then come over to Singapore to ease the workload of your friends and if possible bring more friends along to make life better?
    Compared to our neighbours, we pay much more and offer equal opportunity to foreign talents to become specialists unlike most countries who favour their citizens.

    Singapore is a meritocratic society and talented foreign talents are valued highly and are given equal opportunity to excel instead of being discriminated against like in UK, US or Australia.

    I hope you are not affected by the biased view of slave of medicine. We reserve the right to discipline him/her should he/she continue to deter our efforts to recruit top foreign doctors to Singapore


  94. Salmonela Says:

    Don’t take this personal ok. I am only referring to my friends’ experience. I am influenced by them mainly.

    I thought my country spending on healthcare in term on GDP is way below WHO recommendation and now i know it is almost the same case in Sg.

    I always think why Sg lacks of human resources in healthcare. I still finding the answer. Is that because Singaporean doesn’t like to become doctor due to poor working condition (like some of them in this forum said work in bank better), the recent fast growing health tourism, or not enough placement in medical school?

    If it is because the first 2 points, slave of medicine has his point to ventilate his dissatisfaction.

    I as a doctor, i don’t expect to become a millionaire with my profession. I can achieve that if i decided to overwork till i die. I believe in seeing patient without looking at profit but focus on what i can make a change to their life.

    We have life outside hospital. I just want work life balance.

    Salmonela


  95. civilservant Says:

    Sg lack human resource in healthcare cause many drs quit to join the private sector.
    There is actually sufficent drs in the private sector which is why I say medical school selection is not perfect and not all drs will stay in the public sector earning less and working more.

    Hopefully more drs will think like our minister Dr Ng who worked twice as much now as a minister earning only 1/5 of his previous salary in the private sector. Money is not everything and we do need dedicated drs to work in the public sector for the poor and needy.

    By flooding the private sector with gps and specialists, this will help in public sector retaining doctors and improve working conditions of doctors in Singapore.


  96. PAEDIATRICS Says:

    Hi
    What is the usual duration of time taken by MOHH to send an offer letter ?
    Any other tips to know before planning a relocation to this beutiful country?


  97. Slave of medicine Says:

    Yeah hospadmin, my comment may be biased. Look who is biased. Talking about foreign and local doctors. I did not mention if I am a singaporean, unless you stratified foreign and local by their degree itself. And cant belive that you actually encourage people to go private where you are supposed to recruit people and help the LOCAL doctors. Aren’t everyone supposed to be treated equally? What if i’m a singaporean but graduated overseas? am i supposed to be treated as a foreign doctor?

    Anyway, have you actually worked in the clinical setting before? or even watch how all the doctors work in the hospital? This comment is not only from foreign grad like me, even the LOCAL grads are unhappy about the current situation. Be it local or foreign, we are here to serve your country and hope for a better change.

    Do you honestly DO NOT agree that we are being exploited to work >30 hours non-stop and underpaid? We work almost 6.5 to 7 days per week without being paid for the weekend? Do you get a day off every week?? even Maids have a compulsary day off, isn’t it true??

    Let’s compare your own pay to your workload and working hours then. Do you think you work as hard as any doctors that work under the government sector? Do you want to count your pay/hour to ours? There is a virtual “rule” that says that we cant work for more than X hours per week? But does anyone care? If you are under the MOHH, have u actually care of how long we work? is it safe for a human being to work long hours, and this person is handling people’s life? you may become a patient one day, will be feel safe to be taken care of by someone that has been working long hours without any rest? do you think that person’s judgment will still be sound? you think about it..

    Probably you are one of them that recruit ppl from overseas to relieve the workload of the local doctors, but has anything been changed? you have recruited hundreds of foreign grads, singaporeans and non-singaporeans. However, all of us still work as hard..so what and where is the change? You mentioned that the cost has to be kept low, but the hours remain the same..so the GOOD change is increase the quantity of doctor, remain/cut your budget but the workload remains?

    Everyone realise that the private sector is offering good money and good hours.
    But not everyone would like to go there because we do want to serve the poor and help those who are in need. But do you think we need to sacrifice so much and live an unhealthy lifestyle just becoz we are SUPPOSED to commit our life to medicine and not expecting anything for return.
    HONESTLY, a lot of us do want to retain in the government sector and we are not expecting to earn big money and live in luxury. All we want is to work safely, and live a slightly more balance life. We don’t even mind doing calls if we can go post-call at 8am! that is definitely possible if the someone can help to make a change! The only reason why the call hours are not being changed for the past few decades is merely becoz the seniors used to work twice as hard as us and all of them survived. So we should and shall not complain of working long hours. But the amount of nurses and doctors was way lesser back then. It make sense why they had to work so hard. But why is that still happening now?

    We are not working in a third world country, things should be changed.. Hospadmin, I believe I’m not the only one that have mentioned about this. As this problem has been existing for decades… Do ask yourself if all the statements above are true to a certain extend before you comment that this is biased. As you’ll have your biased opinion from admin point of view too.
    Most of the doctors are still dedicated to serve the public; also agree that money is not everything. However dedication and enthusiasm may burn out one day when one has to work so hard that ones health and family is being neglected. We are just a human being after all..


  98. hospadmin Says:

    Dear slave of medicine,
    I do hope you stop painting a biased view of Singapore hospital life or actions may be taken against you.

    Firstly, encouraging greedy doctors to go private help ensure that those remaining in the public sector work for love of their patients rather than for money. They will tend to complain less and lower morale of the doctors in the public sector.

    Flooding the private sector with doctors also help in increasing competition and lower healthcare costs. Look at cost of lasik.

    Polyclinic doctors do not work >30 hours non stop so you have a choice not to choose hospital postings that are less family friendly.
    Long working hours help to reduce cost of manpower.
    Why hire 2 doctors when 1 doctor can do the same job for less? Then again, you will be pleased to note that we are actively hiring doctors from Australia, India, UK, Taiwan, Malaysia. Workload will be decreased but this recruitment drive is difficult enough without your biased comments about work in Singapore.

    I think that you should speak to MOHH asap and request to transfer to a family friendly posting like polyclinic, health promotion board as you have shown to be totally burnt out as evidence by your biased view.


  99. Salmonela Says:

    HI,

    If private doctors should classified as greedy then the whole world should be classified as such excluding doctors from public hospital. I am in private. I just don’t agree with the way gov treated me.

    It look scary that hospadmin would like to take action against slave of medicine. where is the freedoom of speech here. You can provide neccesary data and statistic to prove him/her wrong, but taking action will just scare people away.


  100. hospadmin Says:

    To salmonela:

    I am not calling private doctors greedy but asking those in the public sector who wants more money to join the private sector instead.
    If wanting more money for doing the same work is not greedy, what is?

    Taking action means that people will not post biased view of working in Singapore. As employees of public hospitals, they must not mislead the public and should not comment on their work in public hospitals.

    I hope this clarifies our stand.


  101. localdr Says:

    I seriously think hospadmin is living in his/her ivory tower.
    Stop recruiting foreign drs to flood the medical community. This will lower the salaries of local doctors and force them to switch to other lucrative fields.
    I have many seniors doing medical aesthetics instead of GP work.

    Slave of medicine is an example of a lousy foreign doctor. Stop making a fool of yourself. Your degree is recognised elsewhere so leave if you are not happy. U think u are hero but u are just a nus reject.

    Recruiting doctors like slave of medicine just lower the morale of existing local doctors who work so hard but are forced to fight on equal terms with foreign doctors for limited traineeship.

    Singapore should be for Singaporean only. Stop recruiting foreign doctors and depressing our local wages.


  102. admin Says:

    Dear hospadmin,

    On September 15th, 2009 at 1:26 am, you said the following to “slave of medicine”:
    “I do hope you stop painting a biased view of Singapore hospital life or actions may be taken against you.”

    Can you explain what “actions” will be taken against him/her? Why the threat?

    I’m the admin of this site. I encourage constructive and civilized discussions here. Even heated personal arguments are fine. But threatening others is just too much.

    There are OB markers here, and threatening others is definitely a no-no.

    I have allowed you to advertise your MOHH recruitment service for free, so the least you could do is to abide by the rules here.

    Now, I need you to retract your threat and apologize to “slave of medicine” or actions will be taken against you.


  103. hospadmin Says:

    Dear admin
    I apologise for my threats to slave of medicine.
    However, we do have strict rules for employees making biased comments to the public.

    Please kindly delete all my previous posts.
    I will not longer participate in this forum or advertise for foreign drs to come to Singapore.

    Thanks


  104. middleclass Says:

    localdr: Singapore exists only because of global trade. We have open door policy for foreign talents that keeps us competitive. Our wages have been depressed across the board for all blue and white collars workers. Why should doctors be exempted from this?
    I’m not trying to be funny but rather am interested to hear your opinion on this.


  105. localdr Says:

    If wages for doctors continue to fall, we will not be able to attract top students to join medicine.
    If wages are low in Singapore, how do we attract our children who are trained overseas to return?

    Our medical degree is also recognised only in Singapore and we cant migrate easily unlike other professionals which are more mobile so we should protect local doctors and not let foreign doctors come to Singapore to practise.


  106. middleclass Says:

    localdr: thanks for sharing. i can certainly understand given that i’m in IT and faces the same challenges too. actually there are very few professions in Singapore that don’t faces depressed wages. even the dish washing aunties faces competitions for their jobs. only point i don’t share is that anyone else is more mobile than doctors. we’re all in the same boat.


  107. localdr Says:

    Anyway it is a good thing that hospadmin is kicked out from the forum.
    It is people like him/her that cause our salaries to fall.
    We should ban all recruitment of foreign doctors in Singapore and protect the salaries of local doctors!


  108. middleclass Says:

    localdr: i’m not sure if that would be a good solution. we’ll also need to ban all recruitment of foreign talents in all other sectors. otherwise who will be your patients who can afford the high salaries of all the local doctors?


  109. Wil Says:

    Calm down people.

    Of course, some people want to come to singapore because of the attractive salary.

    However, some people (like myself)want to come to singapore because of its non-racism image.
    These recent comments certainly make me think twice about coming to singapore as i orginally thought most singaporean are friendly (at least that’s the impression i got from my singaporean friends).

    I can understand the frustration of foreign doctors taking up all the good posts from local doctors. It happens everywhere. However, on the other hand, by recruiting foreign doctors it helps the country to save money as training costs money! Wouldn’t it be a good thing for a foreign country to train a doctor for you and you don’t have to pay a penny (dollar in singapore terms)?!

    Therefore, it is not the foreign doctors’ fault for coming over, as at the end of the day you guys do need more doctors. It sounds like it is the local system fault of not supporting the local doctors.

    Calm down people. Lots of people reading this forum. It’s not just about who’s got who’s job. Do not ruin the image of such a beautiful place like singapore.


  110. richdoc Says:

    dear admin, hospadmin made threats TWICE, once in #93 and another time in #98.

    while others are just stating their points of view- obviously biased for some but definitely fair comments in a discussion forum- hospadmin is the one who’s scaring away the foreign docs! and now we know the true colors of sg bureaucrats. :)


  111. richdoc Says:

    further, all docs judge for yourselves- if life is really good, people would be singing praises and hospadmin wouldn’t have to copy and paste feel-good stories here. hail internet freedom!


  112. Slave of medicine Says:

    Perhaps I have been assumed to be a greedy lousy foreign doctor that wants more money but less work. Well, if fighting for a better work life balance to improve the quality of life of all public doctors is wrong, I will apologise for my honest opinion. Again i clarify myself, I DO NOT WANT A PAY RISE, but a SLIGHTLY more reasonable working hours. Eg.Shift work may be a solution to this problem. However, the statement “Why hire 2 doctors when 1 doctor can do the same job for less?”, have answered the question why we are still working as hard. Well, hoping to go post call by 8(after working for 25hours)is too much?? and get myself labelled as a lazy greedy doctor? really?? is my suggestion really that unreasonable?

    It is a fact that FOREIGN grads are not welcome in singapore. Whether or not you are a singaporean, it doesnt matter. As long as you are a NUS reject or non-NUS grad, you are considered as a foreign doctor. I think that is very sad. Unfortunately, a lot of the LOCAL grads will have to do calls every other day or every 3 days without foreign grads. But not many people have realised that.

    If making a little change like shortening call hours for 4-5 hours can retain a few more people to stay in public hospital, the workload in the public hospital will be significantly reduced in a long run, and less complain will arise. Isnt that a better solution than asking people to go private??! or do postings like GP, public health, or admin work??

    Sadly, not a lot of people are open to this idea. I guess there is no point fighting for our rights anymore, as feedback will easily be taken as threats.


  113. starwars Says:

    why all this fight and quarrelling on the net? i am a local specialist. a tried and tested product of the entire singapore system. i dont regret one moment of it and i would do it all again!!

    i used to do 15 calls a month as a registrar. no off days. used to sleep on the operating table cos i was too tired to go back to my call room. it was part of my surgical training. i used to be so tired and wondered why i did it. now i dont regret one moment of it. why? cos it gave me the amount of experience which the current junior surgeons will never ever have. at this time, if i see a case, i dont even have to think of what to do. its so natural to me now. all because of the hours which i put it. its just like training for a marathon.
    no one forces it on you, no one forces you to do it.

    i trained in the US as well, and you think we work hard? no way. those guys in the top hospitals are mad…. they will do anything to rise to the top.

    if you want to play the game, then you got to play by the rules. if you want to win, then you got to put in the miles. otherwise, dont even start cos you wont even see the finish line.

    if you want to be the best of the best, THEN YOU GOT TO PUT IN THE HOURS. other wise, dont even think of starting cos you will NOT MAKE IT to the top of the top. period. there is not short cut in surgery or in medicine or in any other career for that matter. law, business, you name it. its all about hard work.

    so why all the moping and crying?
    i left cos i had all the experience i required. i left cos the govt service could not offer me what i wanted to do. and how i wanted to grow and offer the level of service which i can offer now that i am in private practise. simple. money was not the objective. of cos, if you offer a level of service and quality which the govt service cannot offer, people will naturally come to you. simple. as in any other business. service, quality, efficiency and good results and attention to details. its the same age old formula that will never change. not now. not ever.

    i employ surgeons now to work for me. i have practises in many of the private hospitals.
    i only handpick the best of the best and pay them very well. cos they too have put in the miles and they have risen to the top of their profession.
    do the same if you want to rise to the top. otherwise, dont even come into the fraternity.

    if you are good, you will always room at the top of your profession no matter where you are. there will always be room at the top for the best.

    so why worry about foreign competetition?

    we need to renew our talent. if our locals cant make it or dont want to do it, then lets open our doors to the rest of the world. let us take the best of the best and let them offer their skills in this tiny country. whatever their profession. singapores only talent lies in its people. what resources do we have? if our locals dont want to work hard for it, then there are thousands of people all around the world who would give an arm and a leg to come here to work.

    just like the foreign chinese or indian students. look at them. they work so hard. they are so very competetitive. group all the best indians professionals from around the world and you will have a place that is better than the whole of harvard put together.

    you think our competetition is within singapore?
    no way. its with the rest of the world.

    lets stop this bickering and focus on the real deal.

    you got to work hard, and be focussed.
    aim to be the best of the best. in what ever you do.
    live by a code :

    1. do not put off what you can do today till tomorrow.
    2. if you want to do anything, then do the best you can or don’t do it at all
    3. dont bluff yourself

    my 2 cents worth


  114. adiemuso Says:

    starwars,

    fully agree. folks in another thread speak about big $$ in front office positions in financial sectors. but $$ comes at a price. u need to sweat, suffer and exchange your own personal time and freedom for each and every ounce of Gold. nothing is free. noone is entitled to anything. being through the rigours of law school or med school does not give u any rights to riches.
    hate to say this but we can see lotsa such dreamers around us. smart but not realistic.
    look at our foreign talent friends, some are really workhorses, working 20hrs a day, some are slackers, however end of the day its only the cream that stays.


  115. starwars Says:

    yes sir adiemuso. i agree. if its easy and can make big bucks quick quick , tell me. i also want that job!!
    if you want it bad enough, u will do anything for it.
    if you cant cut it, sorry, there will tons of others who are willing and who can. life sucks…i know..but thats the way of the world.
    so any takers to do surgery? hehehe. welcome to the real world of medicine..not what you see on tv. they only show the glamour guts and glory. not the toil sweat tears and pain to get there.

    my 2 cents worth

    so everyone stop moping. and start working hard. and dont focus on the money. cos if you do, it will pass you by. but focus on the job..and the money will come in. tons of it.


  116. PAEDIATRICS Says:

    Hi,Friends,There were some heated arguments in last weeks post’s.But I feel the congluding reamaks are beyound doubt very positive and constructive.This profession is for those who have a passion for patients or else…
    No body respsonded to my Q…How much time MOHH needs to send an offer after interview?
    Good luck to all.


  117. starwars Says:

    hi paediatrics.

    my wife is a specialist paediatrician and neonatologist in private practise.

    so i know quite a bit about the training and the employment prospects in singapore.

    the best way to enter into singapore : do neonatology.
    that is the biggest demand in singapore.

    there are quite a few general paediatricians in singapore and as such, the demand is not there.
    however, the major demand is for neonatologists and that is the fastest way to land a job in singapore. provided you have the necessary training.

    starwars


  118. roger Says:

    quote:
    from hospadmin:
    I do hope you stop painting a biased view of Singapore hospital life or actions may be taken against you.

    Firstly, encouraging greedy doctors to go private help ensure that those remaining in the public sector work for love of their patients rather than for money. They will tend to complain less and lower morale of the doctors in the public sector.

    Flooding the private sector with doctors also help in increasing competition and lower healthcare costs. Look at cost of lasik.

    Polyclinic doctors do not work >30 hours non stop so you have a choice not to choose hospital postings that are less family friendly.
    Long working hours help to reduce cost of manpower.
    Why hire 2 doctors when 1 doctor can do the same job for less? Then again, you will be pleased to note that we are actively hiring doctors from Australia, India, UK, Taiwan, Malaysia. Workload will be decreased but this recruitment drive is difficult enough without your biased comments about work in Singapore. ”

    probably one of the stupidest, most bigoted and overly self-righteous posts i’ve read this year on ANY forum.


  119. regor Says:

    Dear Roger
    I dont think hospadmin is stupid, bigoted or self righteous.

    He is telling those who complain to leave the public sector. As a subsidised patient, do you want to see caring dr who work for the love of their parents or do you want to see doctors like slave of medicine who complain about low pay, long working hours, unfair treatment of foreign doctors?

    I dont know about you but I prefer good and caring doctors who care less for money than for the well being of their patients.
    I hope hospadmin screen the foreign doctors and not bring in mecenary doctors who are here for the money of Singaporean.


  120. callsarecrazy Says:

    Dear regor

    What slave of medicine is saying is that shifts in excess of 30 hrs are dangerous for patients!

    I think everyone must realise that its a patient safety hazard which hospital administrators need to be cognizant of.

    Long call hours without sleep are a health hazard to the drs themselves and a hazard to patient safety too.

    If MOHH doesnt care about the well being of their drs in their employment, then please at least spare a thought for the patients who’ll be treated by overworked, tired out drs.

    People like slave of medicine voice out their frustration because they want to see change in a system that is grieviously wrong and has failed both drs and patients alike.

    hospadmin’s reply and unwarranted threats were utterly disappointing. I certainly hope that that’s not the attitude of most of our hospital administrators.

    Administrators should come to the hospitals and sit through calls with the drs. Maybe after that they will be more matured in their opinions. Bland threats to a hardworking dr asking for change on an internet forum does not serve his purpose of recruiting more drs in anyway either!

    And I don’t think administrators are in any position to label our doctors as greedy. If a doctor earns a respectable pay, that’s because he’s earned it over the years.

    I agree that hospadmin’s post was probably one of the stupidest, most bigoted and overly self-righteous posts i’ve read this year on ANY forum

    callsarecrazy


  121. regor Says:

    hi callsarecrazy,
    if you read the posts carefully, you realise that things flare up only after slave of medicine gave an inaccurate protrayal of hospital life in Singapore to discourage foreign doctors to work in Singapore.

    I have friends who are doctors who work in MOH, polyclinic and they all dont seem to work for more than 8 hours. They still have a life outside medicine so I seriously doubt that slave of medicine is making a fair comment.

    It is likely that he is afraid of better foreign doctors coming to Singapore to work and he has to work harder or his contract will not be renewed. Let us welcome foreign doctors to Singapore to improve our healthcare system and not be so negative like slave of medicine!


  122. really? Says:

    starwars who’s a specialist already said the long hours are necessary. and we’re talking about doctors working in real hospitals. polyclinics and MOH (??!!) are not hospitals.


  123. callsarecrazy Says:

    regor

    I’m a singaporean doctor and I’m all for whoever can come in to help us with the crippling workload in our hospitals.

    Yea i know people who work in offices/ivory towers probably need not go on call but that’s a mere handful. Polyclinic doctors too are but a small group of doctors. Most polyclinic doctors still end up being rotated back to the hospitals after their stint there.

    The crux of the matter is that the majority of doctors contracted with MOHH still work in the hospitals and many of us still go on calls.

    And hospital calls in excess of 30 hours are crazy! Why do we have to live through this? Why do we have to subject our patients to such danger?

    Can you honestly say just how what fraction of MOHH doctors really work 5.5 day weeks and 44 h workweeks?

    I think that’s an inaccurate claim on hospadmin’s part. And being inaccurate isn’t fair comment either!

    With administrators like hospadmin, its little wonder good people are leaving public practice. I don’t agree that everyone who leaves for public practice is greedy. On the contrary, the private realm has some of our best and brightest clinicians, surgeons, many of whom have been great teachers. When good people, they bring with them their expertise and wealth of clinical knowledge. Some of my best teachers in medical school have left for private practice, and these were some of the most caring doctors and role models I’ve come across. ANd I resent anyone labelling them as greedy.

    Hospadmin should realise that sometimes people leave not just because their life and pay sucks here, but also because of all the administrative red tape, stifling but stupid policies and just the whole load of crap that hospital admin inundate us with.

    I think MOHH could do with fewer administrators like hospadmin. Someone ought to fire that fella!

    To all foreigners who are contemplating coming to Singapore. Come. Learn to connect with Singaporeans, our patients, our doctors. try to slowly pick up some of our everyday language and understand a bit of our culture. Singaporeans may not be the friendliest people in town, but most will open up to you if u prove to be sincere and equal partners in work. Learn things fast and get up to speed quickly. Do not come however if u’re expecting a red carpet welcome or that life will always be a bed of roses.


  124. starwars8888 Says:

    hospadmin is a typical adminstrator guys. thats the reason why many of us leave. they think that doctors work for the admin in the hospitals. not realising that if i dont work, they DONT get paid. if you think that is bad? get a load of this. all wines given to us in the hospital had to be given to the admin. who would keep the wines and open it on official occasions! for themselves to drink. hahaha. all gifts beyond 50dollars had to be declared. all of that is fine by me. to avoid corruption etc. But the good stuff like wines etc must be given to the admin and not to the dept? can you believe that?

    further more, in the hospitals, it was not how much work you did. it was how often you participated in events, who you carry etc etc. fine. that all is omnipresent in coporate culture. but in surgery? if i am a good surgeon and have tons of patients, shouldn’t we be given acknowledgement? OH NO! that would never happen. why? cos we did not carry the right person in the admin etc etc.

    and they had the aduacity to threaten me upon leaving that it would be difficult to survive in pte practise!! hahaha…biggest joke of the century. ng heng hean was more than right in his comments.

    so to all the govt docs here who are struggling with daily work…
    1. dont fret. CARE FOR YOUR PATIENTS.
    2. stay focussed.your objective is to get the right training and knowledge to treat your patients. first and only objective.
    3. dont get involved in politics.
    4. work very hard. get as much training as you can…ie: do MORE calls.
    5. Hone your medical skills.
    5. hone your communication skills.
    6. treat your patients to the best of your ability.
    7. never be afraid to admit you dont know and ask for help from anyone….both from juniors as well as seniors! cos more heads are better than one.

    and if you get fed up…there is the whole world of pte practise for you. and believe me : you will be outrageously happy!!

    so dont fret with the calls…and get cracking!!!

    and once u are trained : give me a call. i need to employ the best trained doctors around! ie : not just those who have the medical skills but those who can communicate with their patients, and most of all to have the compassion to care for their patients. sounds jaded i know but its the tried and tested receipe for guaranteed success in anything that you do. trust me. i have walked that road and am still walking that road.

    have a great weekend!!

    have a great weekend!


  125. hospceo Says:

    Hi all drs
    U all must learn to work with us administrators cause we are the clockmaker while all of you are merely timekeeper.
    Dont understand right?
    With more foreign doctors coming to replace all of you local doctors, we will no longer be held to ransom by all of you greedy and lazy doctors.

    Hospitals are run by administrators and not by DOCTORS! So shut up and work and stop bullying my junior administrators who we are grooming to become the next ceo and stop threatening them.

    This will be my first and only post!


  126. callsarecrazy Says:

    hospceo:

    hey listen up.. you may in the habit of shutting ur fellow administrators..

    BUT U CAN NEVER SHUT US DRs UP

    MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD INVITE UR BOSS UP TO THIS FORUM

    AND PERHAPS AFTER THAT U TOO WILL LEARN TO SHUT UP


  127. callsarecrazy Says:

    it turns out that hospceo / hospadmin / regor may very well be the same person!

    hey dude.. shut up and apologise already!


  128. bigshot Says:

    i apologise on behalf of all administrators who offended anyone here. anonymity is a 2-edged sword. on 1 hand it allows people to provide honest feedback without fear of repercussions. on the other hand it gives other people with an agenda to destroy the benefits of anonymous feedback by turning civilised discussions into heated exchanges filled with childish threats. we should all learn to grow up and deal with our differences.


  129. peacetoall Says:

    Dear all,
    Let’s make peace not war in this forum.
    Btw, this forum is about doctor’s pay and not doctor’s working conditions.
    Can we keep to the facts, no more name calling and childish posting?


  130. ORL Doc Says:

    Hi
    interesting posting…. same concerns here in the US…. but getting back to the point of the forum, do any of you know of opportunities for an Otolaryngologist/Head & Neck surgeon in Singapore ? i have been practising in the US for over 3years and have done all my training and board certification here, but want to move back to be closer to family. Thanks


  131. wavelength Says:

    http://www.wave.com.au/singapore-me...

    Salary, Income Tax and Benefits

    Although the actual salaries paid, if converted to another currency, appear low, the “take home” pay is a considerably different story (especially at the higher end of earnings) because Singapore has one of the lowest taxation systems in the world. The maximum income tax bracket is 20% and on the first SING$300,000 you would only pay approximately $40,000 in tax (or 12.5%).

    Hospitals rarely provide indicative salary levels or scales and salaries are very much based on the Doctors experience and career history. As a rough guide, in Singapore dollars, a newly qualified Consultant can expect to earn $200,000 whilst an experienced Physician can earn over $400,000 (paying only $59,000 in tax, or 15%) and an experienced specialty Surgeon over $500,000 (paying only approximately $80,000 in tax, or 16% ).

    Typically Hospitals in Singapore offer between a 1-3 year renewable employment contract.

    You will generally find Hospitals will also pay annual bonuses, both guaranteed and variable, and offer housing allowances, some relocation costs (flights). Other employment benefits will usually include: Childcare facilities, Competitive leave benefits, Family friendly practices, Flexi-work arrangements, Medical dental and group term life insurance benefits and Subsidised health screening programmes.

    upload your resume at

    http://www.wave.com.au/applicationf...


  132. Dr. BIKASH SUBEDI Says:

    I have completed my mbbs from ustc, bangladesh in 2002 and recently i have completed my MD(Cardiolgy)from BSMMU, Bangladesh in july 2009. I am highly interested to work in singapore as specialist. What post shall get there and what facilities will be provided and what amount of salary i will be paid accoedingly? How shall i apply for the job there? please tell me the total procedure of application


  133. starwars8888 Says:

    hi there. yes i totally agree. lets stop all this name calling. what ever we say or do, it wont make a difference. the winds of change have hit the shores of singapore and it will be here to stay.

    doctors will still continue to leave and the cycle will carry on. new ones will join and those that are happy being in service, will stay and those that are looking for autonomy will leave.

    there will be a break point eventually. when there are too many doctors in pte practise such that the system cannot support any more, then this will stem the efflux. and those that are unhappy in service will either quit, give up medicine or emigrate to other countries (only to realise that this sort of nonsense is present all over the world!!)

    there was a paucity of doctors leaving for pte practise for a long time until about 2003 till 2007 when a lot of doctors decided to leave.

    but the hosp admin pple are right. as long as they flood the system, and there are way too many doctors, in that way, the efflux of doctors to pte practise will cease.

    however, from a doctors perspective is this good? well, too many doctors means that the overall quality of training goes down significantly. in order to get the necessary training and exposure,the younger doctors will most likely have to take a longer time to get their experience. the problem i forsee is this : in order to stimulate the system flow, the certification process may become easier ( yes you heard me right) easier.

    surgery takes a long time to learn and master. you cannot become a surgeon over night. it takes at least 10yrs to be able to operated competently and safely. even then, for some it may not be enough.

    so only time will tell which direction we are headed.

    but if you ask me: are there enough doctors in singapore. YES of cos. its just the distribution. many of the pte practise doctors have all the knowledge and practise to teach the juniors. its all about distribution. we dont have enough doctors at the junior levels to do the scut work. thats the problem. the system is becoming too top heavy.

    but having said that, I dont have the solution to these problems!
    other than work hard and be happy!!

    que sera sera.


  134. wavelength Says:

    Hi Dr BIKASH SUBEDI
    I am sorry to inform you that your primary medical degree is not recognised in Singapore.
    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/11537094...

    Your specialist degree is also not recognised in Singapore.
    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlo...

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ca...
    You may be able to get temporary registration in speciality of need.

    Regards


  135. CrazyWisdom Says:

    Hi everybody
    I’m an orthopedic surgeon got my basic medical degree (MBBch) from Egypt 1997, also Master in Orthopedic Surgery from Egypt also 2004, and then MRCS (England) 2008. I am much interested in coming and work in Singapore as I believe it has the best overseas medical system all over the world after the traditional known Us and UK medical systems, in addition to ppl’s lovely friendly attitude .
    Please can any one advise me about
    1) the best way to apply, what will be my position,
    2) expected salary, and
    3)how long it will take if I got a short listed mail till I really start work
    As all these will be of real concern regarding how I will arrange my time schedule, please urgent reply needed.
    Hope everybody will enjoy their weekend.:)


  136. aussiedoc Says:

    Hi, I’m a palliative physician with australian medical degree (MBBS) plus FRACP and FAChPM and grad.dip pall med and three years experience as consultant…. what do you think I could expect to earn in singapore? thanks…..


  137. sgnurse Says:

    Hi I am a nurse working in sg
    drs earn a lot in Singapore compared to us nurses
    I dare say u get at least 10k Singapore dollars

    Hope to see u in Singapore soon.
    Btw, are u married?


  138. amazed Says:

    Oh dear, I wonder why on earth a nurse would give such comment. Perhaps you are working in a private hospital or you are just a very junior nurse that has no idea what is going on the hospital or how hard is a doctor’s life. Are you looking for a partner from this forum? you’ve come to the wrong place!
    Get back to work and do your research! We do not get 10K per month.
    WAKE UP and stop hunting for doctors!


  139. nurse2 Says:

    it’s more like 20k rite? i see so many young docs driving bmw and other big cars. don’t tell me they are living beyond their means because they don’t look so. and to be brutally honest, especially in an anonymous way, almost all nurses who are single secretly hope to hook a doc at their workplace, consciously or unconciously. :)


  140. old doc Says:

    my wife was a nurse too :( anyway, not all doctors earn 10k and above and 20k is almost impossible unless you are top of the field or specialized in certain fields. Nowadays, many people are driving BMWs even when they are earning only 4-5k.


  141. aussiedoc Says:

    well i did not actually give away my gender…. and yes I am married LOL


  142. bmw Says:

    4-5k can drive bmw!? no wonder youngsters these days can’t pay the high COVs. :) i have a different ‘bmw’ – bus, mrt and walking. :D


  143. IT Professional 2 Says:

    bmw, I love your definition


  144. bmw Says:

    i just want to be different from the yuppie youngsters these days. they like to build debt. i like to build assets (i’m a shareholder of smrt). :)


  145. sgnurse3 Says:

    Hey amazed,
    You have anything against nurses?
    We are free to date doctors and obviously doctors earn a lot more than us.

    Specialised surgeons (”specialist” doctors who perform surgeries) ranked number 1 with a 75th-percentile income of $22,821, while GPs came in 4th with $14,653.

    Please refrain from making rude comments especially against nurses who work very hard in Singapore!


  146. old doc Says:

    sgnurse: those high earners that you have mentioned are mainly specialists and not doctors. I think what we meant here are the average GPs. Some GPs might earn more (like the reported $14,653) but from what i know, the avg is below $10k or barely around the $10k mark. There are so many GPs around, how can you expect all of them to earn that much. :)


  147. starwars Says:

    to the palliative doc australia : you will be certiain of a job in singapore. palliative medicine is still growing in singapore and you will surely be able to get a job. salary will be commensurate with qualifications as well as with experience. i suggest that you enquire with MOHH as well as with SMC. look up their web sites.

    sg nurse : haha you are most rite. there are lots of nurses who want to hook a doctor. its not also cos of the money. i guess its that feeling that marrying a doctor gives them that security that someone will take care of them .at least, that is what all my nurses tell me. this is not from me guys : that statement is from my nurses who i have worked with and am working with. and the feeling is also mutual with many doctors. after all, if you work with someone day in and day out, feelings are sure to develop. lots of my doc frens married nurses whom they worked with. and nurse work really really hard in singapore. i think all nurses should be given a medal!! and lots more pay!

    old doc : yes. many of my GP frens are saying that its not easy out there nowdays. running a GP practise is not like what it used to be. as such, many have gone away from being traditional cough and colds and are into aesthetic medicine like botox fillers and the like. so those who are doing esthetic medicine tend to earn a lot more than those who are the traditionalists.

    starwars


  148. CrazyWisdom Says:

    Hi everybody
    I’m an orthopedic surgeon got my basic medical degree (MBBch) from Egypt 1997, also Master in Orthopedic Surgery from Egypt also 2004, and then MRCS (England) 2008. I am much interested in coming and work in Singapore as I believe it has the best overseas medical system all over the world after the traditional known Us and UK medical systems, in addition to ppl’s lovely friendly attitude .
    Please can any one advise me about
    1) the best way to apply, what will be my position,
    2) expected salary, and
    3)how long it will take if I got a short listed mail till I really start work
    As all these will be of real concern regarding how I will arrange my time schedule, please urgent reply needed.
    Hope everybody will enjoy their weekend.:)


  149. JooJooBars Says:

    Hi,

    Anyone knows what is the average annual pay for a consultant psychiatrist, private and non-private, in Singapore?


  150. jojobee Says:

    i have met a lot of UK trained (Singaporean and malaysian ones) doctors who are heading down to work in Australia as UK /Irish grads are now exempted from taking The Australian Medical Council exams. There is now a scheme known as ‘Competent Authority’ for UK/Amercian/Canandian grads and this means that they are exempted from sitting for AMC Exams

    i have asked some of them why they are not heading back to sgp. the reasons are obvious. The poor working conditions plus the difficulties of getting FULL SMC REGISTRATION is a real drawback.perhaps SMC could make it easier for singaporeans to work their way towards full registration instead of throwing up so many hurdles.

    it is easy for UK trained drs to get full registration in australia now … :)


  151. jojobee Says:

    As we speak, a lot of UK/Irish trained (Singaporean and malaysian ones) doctors are heading down to work in Australia as UK /Irish grads are now exempted from taking The Australian Medical Council exams.
    ‘Competent Authority’ scheme is open to r UK/Amercian/Canandian grads and this means that they are exempted from sitting for AMC Exams

    i have asked some of them why they are not heading back to sgp. the reasons are obvious. The poor working conditions plus the difficulties of getting FULL SMC REGISTRATION is a real drawback.perhaps SMC could make it easier for singaporeans to work their way towards full registration instead of throwing up so many hurdles.

    it is easy for UK trained drs to get full registration in australia now … :)


  152. Michael Says:

    My 2 cents, driven by a strong coffee ..

    As for Medical Council registration .. I guess it is something to do with ‘job security’ for the Resident Doctors, where they curtail ‘foreign Talent’ and ‘overseas graduates’ by making things strict. The word “difficult” is a bit taboo ..

    Comparatively, most of the other countries have woken up and made it easier for expat doctors to practice, as long as their qualifications are in order or they perform supervised duty for 2 years or so. Even though, when a foreign trained doctor screws up, the ‘natives’ are up in arms blaming it on the poor training of the overseas trained doctor ..

    Take Malaysia – even Malaysians, who study in Malaysia, under the twinning arrangements had a tough time getting Malaysian Medical Council approval, even though they are Malaysians, and studied in a Approved Educational Institution ..

    it is Partly for this reason, some time ago, there was a report that a lot of Filipino Doctors are taking up nursing, as nursing has less of such constraints, when it comes to working in different countries. .

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/health/...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...

    http://www.gmanews.tv/story/111895/...

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...

    [I am not a doctor, and the above is just an observant comment ... ]


  153. jojobee Says:

    attention UK/Irish/NZ trained doctors:
    competent authority pathway in oz = NO need to sit for barrier exams to eventually gain UNconditional registration in Australia

    see this link: http://www.nswmb.org.au/index.pl?pa...


  154. low cost-low tech Says:

    medicine & law are some of the last bastions of elitist protectionism in sgp.


  155. Michael Says:

    low cost-tech. It is not just SG, most countries are of the same mentality.

    There was another recent article that said the GPs in UK have expressed that their quality of life improved once the NHS allowed ‘foreign’ doctors to standby on weekends… And the same doctors complain of poor medical care by the foreign doctors.


  156. low cost-low tech Says:

    other countries know to take care of their citizens. does SG ?


  157. low life Says:

    In SG, foreigners and PRs are first class. Citizens are second class. Nsmen are the lowest life form (tongue in cheek). :)


  158. Michael Says:

    Taking care of Citizens ?

    while it is drifting off, my take on the comment of SG taking care of the citizens, atleast, when it comes to Doctors and Lawyers and the like, the Government or the respective councils seem to be taking care of Singaporeans who graduated in Singapore !! That also adds a bit of foreigners who graduated.


  159. dempsey Says:

    I am a junior MOs working in one of the hospitals here. am a NUS grad.
    Clocking more than 10 hours per day is no joke excluding on calls. Plus putting up with ungrateful patients, demanding supervisors/seniors doesn’t make it any easier
    The working environment here is getting very unsafe. Patients lives are at risk.

    The workload here is just getting unrealistic.
    How do I spend more time with my family? Hahahahhah!!!!! What a joke
    To the doctors who are returning from overseas – good luck guys.
    I always advise doctors who are returning from overseas to stay overseas and if they want to return to Singapore, better come back after you have obtained your higher qualifications or else you will be bullied like nobody’s business.

    Medical admins here are not very sympathetic to the plight of the junior staff here.

    Will definitely sit for USMLE or AMC soon!!!

    Slave of medicine/callsarecrazy (post123) says it all


  160. kha Says:

    I would like to inquire on eligibility and requirements for a foreign medical graduate to work / practice in Singapore w/ the ff information:

    - Graduated in Philippines – The Far Eastern University – Dr. Nicanor Reyes Medical Foundation or FEU-NRMF Institute of Medicine
    - Licensed Physician under Republic of the Philippines Professional Regulation Commision (PRC) – August 2009

    Looking forward to hearing from you soon.


  161. dempsey Says:

    kha – i am not sure if you have read the above postings.
    do consider it very carefully before you make an decision :)
    also you better enquire if your passport or your salary is going to be impounded by your employing hospital if you are going home for holidays.

    not sure about drs .. but i do know that the foreign nurses have complained that their passports / 1month salary has been witheld if they were to go away on hoiday

    :)


  162. starwars Says:

    why always complaining about the calls? its an necessary evil. we all knew about it when we opted for medicine. so deal with it. its only a short time of your life. you got to do it. cos only when you are on calls are you forced to make decisions. otherwise you will be hand held all the way. and believe me, i have seen many docs being hand held for way too long and when it comes to the crunch, they just cant cut it. and then they run into problems. so grit your teeth and bear with it.


  163. angrymo Says:

    Starwars is right.
    Dont be a whiner
    Calls are needed so that hospitals can survive. Without calls, the system will collapse.

    If it makes you feel better, residency will start next year and our juniors will have more protected time to learn so blame yourself from being born too early.

    Hope my life improves when residency programme kicks in!


  164. dempsey Says:

    there are people in this forum who expect the juniors to be slaves of the UNsustainable system.

    there is nothing wrong with being on calls. But being overworked and not having enough rest is the real problem

    NOT enough rest (working continously for more than 24 hours) = greater chances of creating errors.
    I would like starwars and angrymo to comment if this is true or false.
    We are humans, not machines.

    no wonder, there are a certain group of singaporeans who are trained overseas in UK/NZ/Oz are not opting to come back as juniors.

    It is true that when one comes back as a junior dr, he/she gets trampled all over. It is better for them to start off at least as an associate consultatnt/registrar
    Foreign doctors who view this tread will make the decision themselves.

    meanwhile I will continue to be a SLAVE slogging away while the hosp admins are having their long tea breaks/ enjoying their nice aircon offices/collecting fat salaries! ;) .
    Hey maybe i should get a career in medical administration instead ;) . seems that these administrators are having a better lifestyle than the clinicians.
    ;)


  165. angrymo Says:

    Well if we survive, why cant you?
    Maybe you should quit medicine and become a medical administrator if you envy their lifestyles so much.

    If you cant take the heat, leave the kitchen and stop whining.


  166. Poor patient Says:

    hello angrymo,

    This is not the issue of ‘you can survive then why other can’t’.

    Its about patient’s safety. Why you guy still don’t understand…….


  167. wonder Says:

    I agree with starwars and angmo. What’s wrong with this spoilt person? You’re free to leave the profession.


  168. Third time and no reply, please help Says:

    Hi everybody
    I’m an orthopedic surgeon got my basic medical degree (MBBch) from Egypt 1997, also Master in Orthopedic Surgery from Egypt also 2004, and then MRCS (England) 2008. I am much interested in coming and work in Singapore as I believe it has the best overseas medical system all over the world after the traditional known Us and UK medical systems, in addition to ppl’s lovely friendly attitude .
    Please can any one advise me about
    1) the best way to apply, what will be my position,
    2) expected salary, and
    3)how long it will take if I got a short listed mail till I really start work
    As all these will be of real concern regarding how I will arrange my time schedule, please urgent reply needed.


  169. wonder Says:

    How long does it take for a typical local medicine grad to go from MO to registrar? Thanks. Cos the pay for MO is really very low man.


  170. angrymo Says:

    Apply residency lah
    5 yrs become specialist!


  171. pseudonym Says:

    to egyptian doc: write to hospadmin. they’re desperate to replace ungrateful always-complaining local mo’s with talented foreign docs like yourself who appreciate our “best” medical system and “pple’s friendly attitude” here. wish you good luck and welcome to singapore in advance. btw, isn’t middle east a much better place with all the oil riches?


  172. dempsey Says:

    there is no guarantee that one will progress to become a specialist even if one is a MO trainnee.
    you are competing with many other medical officer trainees for a registrar’s job.
    singapore is a small place and opportunities are relatively limited, compared to bigger countries like US/Australia.

    hahahahah .. there are some deranged beings out there suggesting that some spoilt people should leave the profession if they can’t take the heat of the kitchen.

    i do look up to Dr Georgia Lee – the well known aesthetic dr in Holland road area!
    Aesthetic should be the way to go!!! ;)
    or hospital admin!

    the long calls are getting very UNsafe in terms of patient care (ie going for 24 hour without rest). i would like to hear from some of the guys here if going without sleep for more than 24 hours is providing the safest care for our patients? want to comment? please do not tell us to leave the kitchen! providing a SAFE solution, whereby our doctors are getting ENOUGH rest so that they can care for our patients should be the way to practice medicine.

    Anyway i am off to Dempsey road tonight to have drinks! want to join in? good place to do a bitof PR for aesthetics! ;)


  173. low cost-low tech Says:

    pls go to Dempsey, have your good rest & drink & give SGP patients your good care !!


  174. yespmed Says:

    Dear Dempsey
    The new residency program ensures that one become a specialist after 5-6 years. There is no more housemanship and of course hours will be limited too.
    Can you stop scaring the general public with your fear about patient safety?
    There is now protected time for learning and rest so just do your job and stop posting in the public.


  175. dempsey Says:

    yespmed: of course who hasn’t heard of the new residency programme.
    “The new residency program ensures that one become a specialist after 5-6 years.”
    WOW! does it mean that a registrar or consultant job is guaranteed?
    right now at this moment, u and i can count how many orthopedic MO seniors/other MO trainees are still waiting for their registrar/AC jobs!
    no names will be named- and i am sure you know who these fellas are.

    Does it mean that everybody who sit and pass their FRCS exams/FRCP exams (in whatever specialty) (and make NO fatal errors during those 5 years) will become a registrar/Associate consultant/consultant in 5 -6 years ? please answer this bit of my question
    No use promising young drs trainee ships while jobs are not guaranteed


  176. dempsey Says:

    plus there are days when some of us juniors can’t even take post calls

    safety issue – studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
    see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...
    let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr ;) – i would like my detractors to answer this question for once

    so far nobody has made a direct reply to this statement “i would like to hear from some of the guys here if going without sleep for more than 24 hours is providing the safest care for our patients” – let’s hear from the floor! ;)


  177. Poor patient Says:

    Thank Dempsey, you get my full support..

    yespmed please answer the questions.


  178. low cost-low tech Says:

    yes, let’s go for another round of drinks at Dempsey & give SGP patients the safest care!


  179. curious Says:

    angrymo, starwars and dempsey,

    what is the % of MOs who eventually make registrar and what is the % of MOs that make consultant (specialist)?

    For those that make it, how long does it take to go from completion of housemanship to registrar?

    Thanks


  180. angrymo Says:

    With new residency system, all residents will become specialists unless they choose to drop out.
    Residency is 5 years and there is no more housemanship.


  181. dempsey Says:

    angrymo- we have all seen MOH H’s website regarding the new residency system.
    Time will tell if all residents will become specialist (and my definition is specialist with the right to private practice, ie fellas who have gone through ADVANCED TRAINING)

    you mentioned “all residents will become specialists unless they choose to drop out”
    then my question is: why are there so many MO trainees still lurking around in General Surgery and Orthopedics in any hospitals when they have passed the exams? why are they not promoted to registrars and ACs?

    so if they are specialist, does it mean that they have a right to private practice?
    The new residency system has not addressed these issues, ie the time frame to private practice

    curious in post 179″what is the % of MOs who eventually make registrar and what is the % of MOs that make consultant (specialist)?
    For those that make it, how long does it take to go from completion of housemanship to registrar?”
    This is something hospadmin has to answer.

    I do not have the data, but a quick look into each department’s list of MOs and MOTs will tell us that there are many MO trainee hopefuls who are waiting for their registrar and advanced trainee jobs.

    No use promising young doctors trainee jobs when the ADVANCED TRAINEE jobs are NOT GUARANTEED (say if someone is A SAFE DOCTOR)
    my 2 cents worth


  182. civilservant Says:

    Dont be greedy drs!
    Why go to private when you can stay in public hospitals taking care of poor Singaporeans?
    The new scheme is to ensure more specialists so even if they leave public hospitals to earn money from private patients, the sheer number of trained specialists will ensure that healthcare in Singapore will remain affordable.

    You must play the right note to get promoted just like in the civil service. Doctors are known to be more arrogant and dont spend enough time playing golf and buying gifts for their bosses and the hospital administrators.
    How to get promoted if you lack EQ?

    Take care of your bosses and hospital administrators and the path will be clear!

    “No use promising young doctors trainee jobs when the ADVANCED TRAINEE jobs are NOT GUARANTEED”

    This is such a rubbish statement.
    There is only one CEO, one Prime Minister and one head of department.
    Those who read about organistation behaviour knows that limiting top jobs to selected few is one way of motivating junior employees to work hard and aim at the top.

    If we promise everyone they will be promoted, obviously they will be less motivated and become lazy.
    FYI, we are not communists and winners take all lah.

    All my yrs of bootlicking, I am not even in the elite admin service so just do your job and stop questioning us the adminstrators!


  183. dempsey Says:

    civil servant – or shall bootlicker if you like to be known as that.

    “All my yrs of bootlicking, I am not even in the elite admin service so just do your job and stop questioning us the adminstrators”

    well we need to question you administrators to ensure that policies dished out by you is FAIR.
    get it.
    you administrators are only enjoying yourself in the nice air con offices.

    we doctors are greedy? hahah .. what a joke Mr Administrator.
    asking for better working conditions, ie having more protected rest .. is that greedy?

    We are expected to function the next day after a long busy night call and expected to go on with a morning ward round attending to changes.

    safety issue – studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
    see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...
    let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like CIVL SERVANT to answer this question for once – which you will not have the guts to answer

    greedy – is it greedy to ask for more rest?
    is it greedy to ask for better working conditions?

    my 2 cents worth


  184. dempsey Says:

    top grade civil servants like you expect doctors AND nurses to produce gold when you only pay peanuts …
    please lahhhhh … u should get down from your ivory towers (and get paid more than S$150 k per annum) and experience what it is like to be on call.

    and stop all your ‘greedy’ name callings as i have not even spoken about pay/renumerations/money in the first place. i am only asking for better working conditions


  185. civilservant Says:

    This is getting personal!

    Same pay less work = lazy
    Same pay more work = hardworking

    Btw I am not top grade civil servant and I sure dont get as much pay as you doctors.
    I am just giving advice on how to get promoted in the real world.

    This is ridiculous, getting scolded for being helpful. Doctors like dempsey sure have low EQ and I am not suprised that he is bypassed for promotion.

    Continue questioning the administration and get yourself blacklisted for all I care.


  186. dempsey Says:

    civil servant (hey Mr speaker Sir – ‘civil servant’ here calls itself a bootlicker! -see post 182

    “Continue questioning the administration and get yourself blacklisted for all I care.”
    of course you do not care for you are the highly paid high and mighty civil servant who doesn’t care about us lowly mortals, ie junior doctors and nurses.

    “Btw I am not top grade civil servant and I sure dont get as much pay as you doctors.”
    liar liar pants on fire.
    You are comparing yourself with the top grade Dr like Dr Woffles Wu or the top grade Opthalmologist at SNEC lah – hahahah .. no wonder lah. top notch civil servants or admins like you are drawing at least S$150 000-200k per year – and the figures are out there on the government websites – so please no lies ok

    I am sure you get paid more than us (doctors AND nurses) – so please no lying my dear bootlicker (that is what you called yourself – see your post 182)

    i did not even mention what my gender is so you have dropped your conclusions too quickly, bootlicking civil servant

    hey civil servant, you have failed to answer this query:
    studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
    see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...
    let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like CIVL SERVANT to answer this question for once


  187. Poor patient Says:

    Dear civilservant,

    If you think you send your grandmother to be operated by a doctor who just post call for 24 hours is a sound and wise decision…. then i will think that you have real high EQ or even IO.


  188. civilservant Says:

    Not all civil servants get high pay.
    As a matter of fact, we did not get any midyear bonus this year despite working very hard to get Singapore out of a recession.

    I am just a farmer in the civil servant so my pay is nothing to show off in public. Anyway, I got to my current position because I was obedient to my boss and never questioned his judgement.

    I also have doctor friends who worked all their lives in the public hospirals who are complaining that junior doctors are not as selfless and hardworking as them in the past.

    These are some of their quotes

    “In those days when I was a houseman, I worked longer hours than you with half your pay and I have never complained even once!”

    “You should be thankful to be serving your housemanship in Singapore instead of Kuala Lumpur or Kuching!”

    “Nowadays the load is so light compared to the past and you guys (and girls) still whine so much!”

    Perhaps there may be an error in the selection of medical students such that they have no respect for their seniors and elders.

    Go whine and get blacklisted as if I care.
    If you are a female dr, then you should know how to use your gender as an advantage unless you lack you know what.


  189. dempsey Says:

    hey civil servant
    you mentioned in post 182 “All my yrs of bootlicking, I am not even in the elite admin service so just do your job and stop questioning us the adminstrators”

    civil servants like you make MORE per hour, compared to us lowly junior drs and nurses – so stop deluding yourself, calling yourself a farmer when you are a arrogant pen pusher. You are the typical administrator whose speech is ridden with arrogance.
    I bet you make S$150-200K or more per year;
    You mentioned that you earn less than doctors – well you are referring to the likes of Dr Woffles Wu/Dr Georgia Lee/Top SNEC opthalmologist then.

    Most of us junior doctors and nurses are getting paid less than what you are getting and please do not go around this forum name calling us as ‘greedy’ (see your posting in 182) when we are only asking for BETTER working conditions and I have not brought in the pay issue in all my post.

    you in your arrogant postings mentioned
    “These are some of their quotes
    “In those days when I was a houseman, I worked longer hours than you with half your pay and I have never complained even once!”
    “You should be thankful to be serving your housemanship in Singapore instead of Kuala Lumpur or Kuching!”

    Does it mean that we are always going to be stuck in the Victorian ages?
    societies need to advance. all health care providers deserve not to be sleep deprived when they are looking after their patients.
    Even SQ pilots have their fair share of rest when they have completed a long shift.

    civil servants / boot lickers (that is what you called yourself in post 182) only sit in their air con office enjoying long tea and lunch breaks while you expect us health care providers (junior drs and nurses) to sweat it out without recognition of our hard work, calling us LAZY and GREEDY.
    We hardly get much rest after a 30 hour call and you as a highly paid $150k per annum admin refuse to address this issue.

    You have failed to answer my query “studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
    see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...
    let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr – i would like CIVL SERVANT to answer this question for once

    deep down in your conscience, you know the answer and good luck if your loved one is going to be operated/taken care of by a dr who has just done a 30 hour shift – nobody in their right mind in this forum will have any sympathy for you


  190. sgdr Says:

    To dempsey
    It is unbecoming of a doctor to talk like that.
    Why so bitter?
    Why join medicine when all you care about is yourself and not the patient you serve?
    I think you should get married if you are still single and quit medicine so that you don’t lower the morale of your hardworking colleagues.

    To civil servant
    I appologise on behalf on dempsey. It seems that she is all burnt out and is sprouting nonsense. Please don’t take it on us doctors and dont pursue the matter anymore.


  191. adiemuso Says:

    this is a joke.

    wake up please. this is the real world. if you are not happy with your current situation. quit.

    the door is wide open.

    if not, grind hard, work towards the top. and when you are there, for all the altruism that you have been espousing, change the conditions such that its “safe” and bridge the pay difference between admin n common docs.

    otherwise, we take it that you are venting your frustrations at work here.


  192. gloater Says:

    Dempsey, that civil servant here is just a farmer. Not the elites in civil service and can you not start getting all excited over nothing? duh.. As a doctor, i’m sure chances are, you came from a ‘toppish’ JC. How many SAFOS, SPFOS and OMS are there a year? Not many. The ones you knew from school, are about already 50% of the ones in your year. And yes there are few of them.

    You’re behaving in a thoroughly obnoxious and unbecoming manner for a ‘doctor’. This is one of the many reasons why I will never consider sending my kids to NUS to end up like that, the inferior education there aside. Farmer school produces farmers like you, even doctors also farmer and farmer like behaviour and attitude.

    That’s why I’ve set up a fund to finance my children to Harvard and Cambridge.

    The geniuses and young billionaires who invented Microsoft, Yahoo, Paypal, Ebay and Facebook, myspace, etc all came up with them while they were students in Harvard, Stanford, etc. None of the farmers in any of the local ‘universities’ has ever done anything remarkable ever in their lives. The only thing they can do is repeat stuff, due to the limited intellectual capacity.

    You are proof of why local university graduates are losers.


  193. DrSociety Says:

    sgdr,gloater, adiemuso: Dr Dempsey has opened up a pandora’s box ; civil servant attempts to to spar with her and bad mouth her in this forum which is a knee jerk reaction (naturally) , this proves that what she is saying is far from being fake and the truth always hurts.

    Dr Dempsey – spot on. Bingo. you have hit indeed hit the bulls eye.

    Dr Dempsey had brought up issues of lack of rest after a 30 hour shift and she is naturally worried that a doctor with insufficient rest is at risk of mismanaging patients and I do totally agree with her (just like poor patient in 187)

    Is this bullocks from Dr Dempsey – no :) .

    Dr Dempsey I salute you for your courage to bring up these unsavoury practices here in this forum and i am glad that in this day and age, we have a medium to hear all view points. keep the post rolling fellas.


  194. farmgoat Says:

    You need to set a “fund” to finance a top education for your kids? Way to go man, but chances are you are a farmer yourself, and there’s high probability your elitist kids in future will be ashamed to be associated with you and your farmer mentality and your (undeserving) superiority complex.


  195. Are GLCs Better Paymasters Than MNCs? | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore Says:

    [...] some doctors and administrators are having a friendly debate, I would like to bring your attention to another interesting [...]


  196. funny Says:

    Different Civil Servant lah


  197. rashid Says:

    I think as a dr with just 7 years xperience, i totally understood what dempsey was trying to say. When you are doing night calls attending to some 30-40 NEW cases alone in the night, sooner or later you will feel that your soul belongs to the hospital and that you’re a slave of that hospital, added to that are angry relatives who have waited a long time in the A/E and some more for you to come to the bedside to clerk the patients. It can just push you to the limit. What you want to see is only daylight and it does not stop there, the morning shift senior drs may sometimes call and scold you for not doing certain things. After all that you still have to work another 6-7 hours. But that’s all in the past for me. I’m now a locum GP working whenever I want and whoever I want. So advice – if you dont want to climb that ladder- get out and be a locum – people appreciate you more !


  198. prof Says:

    I agree with Rashid.
    If you can not take the training, leave the profession.
    There are many people waiting to take over you.
    In my time, we work much harder for less and my position today does not come easily.

    We do need to filter out unsuitable drs like dempsey in future.
    She must have lied to get into medical school.


  199. dempsey Says:

    Can anybody here enlighten me if this statement is false: studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
    see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...
    let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr. Now Prof/Sgdr/adeiuso – what are your answers? True or false

    Times have changed professor. You cannot expect health care providers, ie the lowly junior doctors and nurses to be your machines.
    You cannot expect someone who is worn out to be operating on your beloved ones and not make any errors – as simple as that.
    We need to be in line with the health care practices of the developed nations – as we aim to be a medical hub in the region.
    So why are we striving for SAFE working practices for our junior doctors?
    Even a SQ pilot is mandated to have sufficient rest after a long haul flight!

    When the civil servant here is doing all the name callings, ie “GREEDY”, some medicos here choose to sell out the interest of their fellow juniors and I have not even spoken out about pay matters/renumerations.

    Where abouts in my posts have I mentioned that I am not putting my patients’ interest ahead of myself? WHERE? Please point out to me.
    Have I said anything unethical?
    In the US/Australia/UK, no junior doctors are allowed to work beyond a 12 hour shift and why are we not adopting these practices like them? – and we aim to be a medical hub ! hahahah .. what a joke …


  200. Poor patient Says:

    I think most medical student who enter medical school with good intention to serve the community and care for patient.

    But like most doctor in this region will enventually end up to become the slave of healthcare system run by hosp admin.

    It is not fair for you to say this, prof. Doctor never promise to sell their soul to the system. If you provide good and safe working environment to doctor, they will take care of your patient because i believe this is what they want to do.

    But if you provide the crap environment. Then sorry la, everyone will protest. Don’t talk about those day. Last time, i believe only few of your friends will earn more than you and gain more respect from the society. But now, most of our friends become banker and engineer, can they have easy life, earn more than you, marry and wife happy. People compare, prof and don’t just live in past. Everyone have family and so with doctor..

    If hosp admin really study organisation behavior he should have know that punishment of employees will just reduce employee job satisfaction thus reduce morale and job performance. Studies show that motivation work much better than punishment.. But now, all of doctor who read the writting from Hosp admin and civil servant will get depress and angry, i believe..


  201. sgdr Says:

    Actually I think hosp admin is very nice and is proactive in helping to reduce manpower shortage in Singapore.
    It is my fellow doctors that are too negative about recruiting foreign doctors to Singapore as they are afraid they compete with them for traineeship position.

    What civil servant said is true also to a large extent as EQ is very impt to get selected as a trainees. I only managed to get traineeship by doing what my boss ask me to do without questioning.
    I doubt Dempsey will ever be a trainee from the way she rebut Prof who I assume to be a senior doctor in Singapore.

    Life is getting better as a doctor in Singapore because of MOHH relentless recruitment of foreign doctors. Last I heard, they flew to UK, Australia, India and even Taiwan to get good doctors to join us.

    Let us welcome these foreign doctors so that our local doctors will not need to work so hard and be burnt out like dempsey, slave of medicine.


  202. dempsey Says:

    sgdr and prof
    i notice that you choose to avoid answering this question: studies have shown that anybody is prone to make mistakes after being sleep deprived.
    see link and let the readers make their own informed decision
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...
    let me know if this is written by a QUACK dr. Now Prof/Sgd – what are your answers? True or false

    deep down in your conscience, you know the obvious answer.

    me not getting traineeship! hahaha …. i will never give away my demographics ;) .. no matter how much u try to provoke me.

    i have never even brought up the issue of foreign doctors so please do not TWIST my words here on this forum.

    but i have to stress that I always put my patients’ interest first! and a sleepy head doctor will never be able to manage his/her patients well, compared to a fresh headed doctor.
    I do not understand why some elements here get upset when I bring up the better working conditions/better hours/ STRIVE FOR BETTER PATIENT Care issues in this forum. The issue of renumerations/payment has never been brought up by me here

    you, civil servant, prof should go and reflect what poor patient had said in post 200.

    i will be having drinks and dinner at my usual haunt at Dempsey tonight at ???? restaurant/cafe ;)

    plus there are people here on this forum who agree with me (non doctors included)
    and by the way, I did not profess to be Dr Bootlicker/please everybody …

    me burnt out???? huh? someone obviously has forgotten his haloperidol! ;)


  203. low cost-low tech Says:

    engineers are even more overworked & underpaid than dempsey, maybe same for civil servant too.


  204. Poor patient Says:

    ya i think we can agree that hosp admin is very nice in doing his job and helping to reduce manpower shortage. But his mentality (not what he is doing probably) of treating doctor just likes a piece of machine is terrible.

    In corporate, executive and managers is treated like human being and employer respect that everyone has life and family. I think hosp admin need to do more for lifesaver like doctor. If doctor fail and patient life endangered, Hosp admin should be blame. However most of the time who will get sued and blame, you think yourself. Only the front line people will understand I believe.

    In operational management, more than 80% of error is from the system. System fail then people fail. so i think more think have to be done to people who design and run the system.

    frontline people… agree with me???


  205. Poor patient Says:

    So hospital admin should just do your job and recruite more doctor… don’t come and blame doctor again and agian.


  206. prof Says:

    Dear dempsey
    You think you are so smart quoting from 1 paper done in US and expect us to change our system because of that 1 paper?

    Do YOU know what is internal and external validity.
    http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content...

    Go read the original paper.
    It has been more difficult to prove that sleep deprivation impairs clinical performance. Most, but not all, studies show impaired performance of clinically relevant, although artificial, tasks.

    Many of these studies have had serious methodologic flaws.

    If I have taken you for the final MBBS, I will definitely have fail you for being so rude and arrogant.

    Pls see psy if you have some problem coping in the system. Stop making a fool of yourself in this public forum

    Regards


  207. sgdr Says:

    Well said Prof
    Dempsey must have committed some medical error and is trying to use lack of sleep as an excuse.

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,2757...
    SIX cups of coffee – that’s the State Government antidote to sleep-deprived doctors killing and harming their patients in a haze of exhaustion

    U want shorter hours, you must be prepared to train longer.
    Only know how to whine.
    Wonder whether you are a real doctor or someone who is pretending to be one.

    Maybe it is a mistake to allow more females to enter medical school. Medicine requires life long committment and is not a part time job for tai tai!


  208. Gerald Says:

    Since we’re on the topic of overworked doctors (and very far off topic regarding salaries ;-) , check out this article in this month’s SMA News:
    12 Angry People
    http://news.sma.org.sg/4109/Angry.pdf
    It’s funny, in a sad,too-close-to-the-heart sort of way…

    I think the topic of long working hours has been well-covered in both the popular press and the medical journals. A medline search should turn up numerous articles. The overall evidence supports the view that overworked doctors make more mistakes.

    It is also worth nothing, that Europe has, as of 1 Aug 09, imposed a 48 hour per week limit on junior doctors working hours. (Ref: European Working Time Directive).


  209. Renter Says:

    I am not a doctor but AS A PATIENT I would prefer my doctor to be fresh and not suffer from any sleep deprivation. From what sgdr is saying it appears that 6 cups of coffee is the antidote to tiredness, etc. In fact it sounds like it can replace sleep!! Perhaps Dempsey sounds a bit whiny but you sounded like a slave driver too: work, work, work, if the patient dies due to our mistakes, we’ll just hide it and life goes on!! That seems to be the attitude of hospital admins/senior doctors nowadays


  210. sgdr Says:

    To renter

    That is a serious accusation that you are making against us. We dont cover up medical mistakes and errant doctors/nurses/allied staff are punished.

    6 cups of coffee is suggested by Queensland government and not by me.
    I am just pointing out that long training hours are not unique to Singapore only and it is needed so that junior doctors can be properly trained.

    Nowadays, we have to arrange teaching sessions in the morning and lunch time as junior doctor are nowhere to be seen after office hours. Last time, we stayed till 10 pm everyday. Now, junior doctor expect overtime pay if we ask them to stay beyond office hours.
    Worse still, they drive bigger and better cars than their seniors. Wonder where their money come from and I do agree that doctors are mainly from rich family and are acting like spoilt brat.


  211. don't need sleep Says:

    Docs, learn from this man who’s not slept in 34 years.

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/This...

    From the employer’s perpective, this is the ideal employee: the one who never sleeps. Eventually, s/he doesn’t even pee or poop. Well, Thai Ngoc, a 64-year-old Vietnamese man, does pee and poop, but does not sleep. He is famous for being awake for 33 years or 11,700 nights, as informed by the Vietnamese news organization Thanh Nien.

    At the moment, Ngoc does not display any apparent health effect (of course, except for the fact that he cannot sleep). The most amazing fact is that the man’s brain seems not to be affected by his condition, and the individual is mentally normal and carries 100kg of pig feed down a 4km road. “I don’t know whether the insomnia has impacted my health or not. But I’m still healthy and can farm normally like others,” said Ngoc.

    “My husband used to sleep well, but these days, even liquor cannot put him down. When Ngoc went to Da Nang for a medical examination, doctors gave him a clean bill of health, except a minor decline in liver function.” explained his wife.

    Ngoc currently has his 5ha farm at the foot of a mountain and he is busy farming and taking care of pigs and chickens all day long. He lives with his six children at their house in Que Trung. The sleepless nights allow Ngoc to do extra farm work or guard his farm at night against thieves. “I used three months of sleepless nights to dig two large ponds to raise fish.”, said Ngoc.

    His condition installed following a bout of fever experienced by Ngoc in 1973. Still, in April, 2007, Ngoc reported that he was starting to feel grumpy due to the lack of sleep. This condition is extremely odd as animal experiments showed that they die sooner of sleep deprivation than they do from lack of food, as sleep is an imperative metabolic need.

    During sleep, the body enters in a predominantly anabolic phase, when it develops, grows, heals and builds muscle; the immune system is at its peak (that’s why, when we’re ill, we wake up without the cold). While sleeping, many organs, and especially the brain, re-fuel (in the case of the brain with glucose).

    Now, many substances (including hormones) reach the peak of their secretion, the nervous synapses are rebuilt, and the long-term memories are strengthened. The growth hormone (somatotrope) acts only during the night, determining the growth of young people. Only during the sleep do the tissues assimilate proteins and fat (so, avoid eating fat-rich food before a good night’s sleep!).


  212. DrSociety Says:

    there are different view points in this forum and there is no need to belittle anyone.

    Sgdr had quoted the queensland government’s directive, but this directive has not been approved at the Federal level in Canberra.
    I do suggest that you refer to the Australian Medical Association link
    http://www.ama.com.au/node/4051 and read Judge Richards findings before the Queensland Health Tribunal.


  213. drguru Says:

    this is Singapore, not Australia. we do things differently here, as we always do. we believe in elitism and gungho-ism. welfare and well-being are low in our list. now get back to work.


  214. DrSociety Says:

    Elitism – wow, that means we have to start churning out more cosmetic surgeons/aesthetic drs who grace the pages of Tattler Magazine! yes yes yes -


  215. drguru Says:

    Yep, money talks. Copied from above:

    Manpower Minister Dr Ng Eng Hen once said “You’re getting a bargain for the ministers you get… I worked half as much and earn(ed) five times more when I was in the private sector.” (Channelnewsasia, 9 September 2003)


  216. Kippot Says:

    what a colourful thread.


  217. Kevin Says:

    Dempsey,

    I think if all doctors are overworked and makes mistakes, then there should be a lot of accidental deaths reported. Also, if the effect is not immediate death but longer term ill health, you would also expect that there’s some effect to the overall lifespan of Singaporeans, which does not seem to be the case. The sad fact is neither of these lend weight to your arguments.

    If we assume the study to be true about making more mistakes with less sleep, then it must mean that the mistake has little noticeable ill-effect to the patients.


  218. underworked dr Says:

    it’s typical human nature not to take preemptive measures until something goes wrong, like the commando torture incident. so going by your logic, there’s nothing wrong at all and maybe the hosps should work the drs even harder to make it more value for money for the patients, more profitable for the hosps and better reputation for sg as a medical hub! work ‘em harder. yee haw!


  219. don Says:

    Dempsey and everyone esle

    relax lar…i understand ur frustration..but you dont need to fight till the end..everyone loses u get what i mean?

    i understand ur problem lar, but whining does not solve the problem. as some of them have said, if u cant take it, drop out and be a GP. or move to another country. no one force u to stay in sg for advance training, its ur own decision.

    in my opinion, its really the work culture in sg. even if ur a lawyer, or accoutnant, or any other professional, you need to undergo intense training to fulfill obligations to the profession you are serving. we are talking about human lives here..medicine is all about gainng exposure through variety of cases. i understand the long debated problems of snr doc farking young docs and the overworked culture, but seeing it from another angle, u get to train well and learn alot. as they say, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.

    i understand your frustration, there are many problems, not only in healthcare, but in sg society in general. lawyers work past midnight to meet deadlines, doctors work 30 hours shift.its crazy i know but this is sg for you. the bottom ladder is always the steepest and the toughest..but the rewards are there for you to reap should you overcome it and become a specialist one day.

    jiayou..


  220. Kippot Says:

    keep them rolling


  221. Kippot Says:

    It is great to hear a variety of view points from the floor.
    as what Don has said above, the bottom ladder is always the steepest and toughest.
    If you are not happy with the system here, you should consider a move overseas for your Advanced Training. I am not sure what your status is now.
    as what someone has said above, you must be from a top local JC.

    If you are smart enough to get into NUS, you would also possess enough intellectual capacity to sit for USMLE/Australian Medical Council Exams/GMC exams. I do personally know of a number of NUS grads who have passed the Australian Medical Council exams and they have never looked back. So the ball lies in your court Dr Dempsey – go and sit for the AMC exams and proof it to us!


  222. Kippot Says:

    There are a number of Singaporean and Malaysian Doctors who have fitted quite well in the Australian medical system and some of them are filthy (sic) rich from their medical practice and investments.
    The typical salary range for a salaried hospital CMO (career medical officer which is equivalent to the Singaporean resident physician) is around A$250, 000 per year (you will prob end up with A$180 000 after tax or S$224k based on today’s exchange rates). A GP in a busy practice here in suburban sydney can easy make around A$ 300, 0000 a year whereas a general physician can make around A$500-700k.
    Getting into ‘hot’ specialities in Australia can be tough (eg Eye/ENT/Skin). Be prepared to suck up to your supervisors as what sg dr has done!

    a doctor who works 30 hours straight is literally walking away with toto money! :P (some CMO jobs will pay A$120 per hour)

    But if you don’t mind doing physician training (you don’t need to sit for AMC exams if you intend to do physician training) you can easily walk into a job now!
    Queensland State – lots of jobs there. Singaporean doctors are very well regarded in Australia – thanks to Singapore’s excellent brandname


  223. kev Says:

    why does everybody get so upset when one chabo here just brings up the subject of being overworked!
    no need to get so irritable lah. life goes on.

    foreign talent bagus ok …… hey we should get FT to do sg dr , prof and dr dempsey’s job! wow, that means prof and dr dempsey in 10 years time will cakap like Foreign talent huh


  224. angrymo Says:

    Hey kev
    Why are you so against foreign drs?
    We leave our family and come to Singapore to take care of Singaporean patients who are ungrateful and spoilt.

    We are treated like second class doctors in Singapore and we have to work harder just to be equal to a local graduate.

    Our pay is about the same and we are also given conditional registration only.

    When we were recruited, we were promised the sky but in reality we were given hell.

    Stop criticizing us or soon there will be no foreign drs doing shit work in a and e and nursing home.

    Meritocracy my foot!


  225. sgdr Says:

    foreign dr bagus …. jagan main main (don’t pray pray).

    mereka doktor asing bagus! without me, dr dempsey , dr prof, dr sgdr all takuttttt!!!!

    aiyohhhhhhhhhhhh .. relax brother abang!


  226. yeah Says:

    farmgoat, yeah of course chances are I’m a farmer to since there are so many of these NUS/NTU/SMU farmers running loose in society compared to the elites.

    It must hurt and sting your farmer sensibilities that given the low odds of getting a PSC scholarship, so many farmers out there would shelf their intentions of landed properties and subject themselves to a life of austerity, if it means their children can attend Yale, Cambridge, Stanford and MIT and be free from the mental and intellectual deprivation thats been wrought on the like of you farmers.


  227. kambingsop Says:

    aiyoh … farmer kaya you know! farmers are not peasants lah.

    yeah why don’t you get your children to attend Towner special school – veli veli hao3 you know!!! good for your children …. hey i think your kids are attending it, if i didn’t get it wrong
    yeah! yeah ! yeah!


  228. IT Says:

    to prof, a court order or MOH can track down the identity of Dempsey through salary.sg easily. Who cares about demographic?


  229. Ivy Says:

    hahaha when is farmer ever not peasant?! farmer here needs to brush up her english. Yeah it must hurt lah. so many people look down on you. even farmers don’t want their kids to be farmers hahhaahah!


  230. yeah Says:

    Slave to medicine aka dempsey said this “Whether or not you are a singaporean, it doesnt matter. As long as you are a NUS reject or non-NUS grad, you are considered as a foreign doctor.”

    She is deluded. Does she really think that a Cambridge medicine grad would deign to go to NUS? Wake up la. 90% of the medicine students I know back in JC aspired to go to top UK medicine schools like Cambridge and Imperial. Many turned down NUS med places and forced their parents to send them to Cambridge and Imperial. Those who ENDED UP in NUS went there begrudgingly and reluctantly, only because it is cheap.


  231. Realisticstudent Says:

    I’m a current final year student in nus med. Having just experienced a student internship posting where we shadow and mirror houseofficers in their work, i have to agree that working long hours, doing the calls are indeed hazardous.

    Doctors need to be fresh at all times to be able to harvest the all needed cognition they have in their brains to think, decide and treat their patients. Many times during night calls i have experienced so far, i find myself whoozing off into automatic robot mode, where i ask standard questions in history taking and fill up the clerking sheet like a robot. I try my best, however, to tailor to the needs of each and every patient that i see.

    I’m sure those who work in the field of medicine have their altruism in them. However, it is difficult to harnest that altruism when you have 36 patients every night, and you being the frontline lone fella who’s gotta deal with the investigations, contacting your seniors, dealing with angry and worried relatives, and rendering first dose of medications all at the same time. it doesn’t help too that sometimes, you don’t get enough support from other staff like the nurses at times. I just finished my student internship from hospital X. I have recalled over 12 cases where i’ve ordered my first dose antibiotics and first dose antidiuretics to be given and nurses did not proceed to giving these doses beside me calling and telling them personally countless of times. 3 of these patients went into high dependency wards, 2 went into ICU cos they went into HBS sepsis and fluid overload cos these medications weren’t served!

    Hospital adminstrators and those who aren’t in medicine have got to that there’s a difference in being a doctor, treating patients and working in a organization. We want to treat patients, but i’m sure most of us won’t want to work in an organization who doesn’t take care of its staff well. Altruism doesn’t feed your stomach. It’s meals and rice which does. If you don’t pay your docs enough, most of them eventually will leave the public sector. Some docs however, are able to live with just altruism alone. DON’T expect ALL to be the same, cos we are just human and everyone has different thresholds.

    Secondly, every one, including docs, bankers, lawyers, whatever have life goals. You don’t label them as ‘greedy’ whenever one leaves into private practice. docs are humans and are just exposed to the whole spectrum of diseases that others can get in their lifetime. Surgeons who stand in the operating theatre more than 10 hours a day will definitely soon have OA of knees, hips and spinal probs. Some of them leave cos of health problems. Others want more family time. We are just human. Are you to say that these ppl who left for the private sector to want just a bit of what humanity has for them to be greedy?

    Finally, if you need ppl to be slaves in your medical organization, pls do tell that to the prospective students who come across you during your interviews every year for med school. We want to treat our patients, properly, safely and dearly. Not be slaves in the system.


  232. homework Says:

    dear Realisticstudent, you mean you didn’t know about the hardships at the time you joined medicine? you didn’t do your homework!


  233. Realisticstudent Says:

    well it’s not that i didn’t do my homework. i did and i expected. Like my moniker, lets be realistic. i can safely say all of us didn’t sign up to be slaves in a healthcare organization. We want to be doctors, we want to help patients, we want to fulfill our altruistic ideals to a certain extent. We sign up to work in a sector, where allied health professionals are supposed to cooperate, but sad to say, i have yet to see much cooperation. Nurses do their own things, ppl do their own things. No wonder so many ppl complain about public hospitals. Do you see complains about service in the private hospitals?

    Who benefits at the end of the day if we are overworked? Patients? My illustration has already proven that they don’t.

    if you think being in HD or ICU is no joke. Let’s see you next time admitted in these wards and let’s see how much hospital bills you can chalk up with just a couple of days stay.


  234. sgnurse Says:

    What a rude student accusing us nurses of not doing our work!
    You think we so free to play facebook game like the NUH nurse during office hours.
    You are just a bloody student and you are already showing the arogance of a bloody doctor.
    Please give us our due respect and stop blaming us for not giving medicine.
    The nurses involved may be busy with other patients.
    Go give yr own medicines if you are so smart.

    Please be more humble next time as nurses save your asses.


  235. dempsey Says:

    Dear Admin/Editor
    I am sorry for causing grief to people here on this forum and I wish to apologise to you, them and everybody here, ie prof and others. I was naturally upset when others were taunting and insulting me.
    I wish to withdraw from this forum and please delete my previous postings. I would want to get on with my life and have nothing to do with this forum anymore.
    Regards
    D


  236. civilservant Says:

    Dear Dempsey
    I accept your appology and wish you well in your future career.
    Please be assured that we will not take your behaviour in the forum during your posting assessment as long as you dont sprout nonsense in future.

    Regards


  237. sgdr Says:

    Hi admin,
    can you please delete Dempsey posting so that she does not damage the reputation of Singapore healthcare system anymore.

    May I suggest that certain “unsuitable” postings not be posted in the public so that salary.sg does not get into trouble with the law.


  238. to sgdr Says:

    i’m not admin, but can you kindly elaborate what’s wrong with the stuff Dempsey wrote? is it slanderous or untruthful or both? is it illegal to share her own experiences and her opinions in a public forum? how does her comment “damage” the reputation of our healthcare system? don’t forget that she’s not the only one who faces the problem she highlighted.

    is it right to shut people up and hint about threats when you do not agree with what they say?

    what if dempsey wrote to the ST Forum? will that make her claims hold more weight?

    finally, why would salary.sg get into trouble with the law? it’s doing a good public service to bring to light so much valuable information!


  239. sgdr Says:

    http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_vers...

    Under the offical Secret Act, public servants should not speak to the public unless permission given by their superior.


  240. to sgdr Says:

    have you been given permission by your superior? :)


  241. to sgdr Says:

    ok, seriously, you cite the fear-inducing Official Secrets Act, which says “… If any person having in his possession or control any secret official code word, countersign or password, or any photograph, drawing, plan, model, article, note, document or information…”

    Do you mean that doctors lacking sleep is an official state secret?! What crap…

    And after reading the boring OSA from top to bottom, I couldn’t find any clause that says anything close to what you claim: “public servants should not speak to the public unless permission given by their superior”.

    Are you trying to mislead and induce fear, or should I brush up on my law and legalese interpretation?

    We as a society already have more than our fair share of mindless and spineless citizens who are forever fearful of speaking up. We are brought up in a culture of being bullied into a corner and keeping mum about injustice and unfair treatment. I surely hope our children don’t grow up to be like us. How about you, sgdr?


  242. Realisticstudent Says:

    to sgnurse:

    Darn you are right. In the end, after all that i’ve experienced, when my patients went into HD and ICU, i made sure not to trust the nurses to follow the orders in the IMR.

    And yes, from that incident onwards, i administered the drugs myself.

    All this just speaks for itself. We don’t get enough support from the ground staff. Your reply, in all it’s hostility and whatever malicious intent you are trying to put forth, just shows that nurses aren’t that cooperative with other healthcare workers. Especially in that hospital X.


  243. starwars Says:

    hahah..all you people screaming your heads off about working so hard etc etc…why???
    if you want to make it to the top, you got to put in the hours. i have said this before and i will say it again.
    there is no free lunch.

    so what if you are tired? if you screw up, you think the law courts will forgive you? you think the patients you forgive you?
    you think the MDU will side you for “being tired?” do you really think that they care at all?

    its part and parcel of becoming a specialist. and this happens everywhere, lawyer, engineer, banker eetc etc.

    if you want it bad enough, you will do what it takes. and i have done it and i wanted it bad enough. at this point, no one is forcing anyone to work like this. if you dont want to, just leave. go elsewhere. no big deal.

    you think MOH really cares if so many surgeons leave for private practise? of cos not. just will just employ more.

    so what is my point :

    1. if you want it bad enough, you will do what it takes.
    2. there are tons of pple out there willing to take your place…and MOH will gladly employ them
    3. dont focus on the money first….thats the way it is. the only focus as a junior MO is to get the training which you require. and only MAYBE, you will be able to rise up the ladder.

    is this fair? of cos not. but then, who ever said life was fair?

    why can i say all of this? cos i have gone thru it. from medical student to houseman, to MO, MOS, Rregistrar, AC, C and finally to private practise specialist. life was always fighting to get to the top.

    at the end of this, all i can say is that no one really cares if you suffer hardships or not. cos if you cant take it, leave. tons of others will take your place.

    did i suffer? of cos i did.
    all pple see now is the glamour the glory fame and money…no one saw the toils, the sweat the tears the pain….the years of humiliation,. being grabbed by the collar and being shouted at : ” you obviously dont know what the hell you are doing!” or being told in front of the entire audience : you are talking rubbish…..etc etc etc. i can go on and go.

    or the 15 calls a month…
    doing the 3 day 2 night camp in hospital. staying in hospital on saturday morning and going home on ly on monday night at 11pm.

    sigh..those were the days. i was having nightmares for about 2 years even after completing some of my postings.. scary…dunno if i can really go through all of that again.

    anyhow : all you guys stop complaining and starting working. if you have to do tons of calls, so be it. it adds to your training. so that you will be forced to make decisions on your own. as a doctor, you will have to make the call. and unless you go through years and years of training, you will not not cut it.

    and if you dont like it, then leave. there will be tons of others who will take your place. so if yyou want it, fight for it. no one will give it to you. dont expect it, and no one deserves it.

    ok ….time to go for surgery…..
    this guy from overseas fractured his
    1. nasal bone
    2. 4th to 7th ribs with lung contusion, and fat embolism
    3. comminuted right humerus
    4. comminuted left humerus
    5. scapula wing fracture
    6. left radius and ulna
    7. sacral alar fractures
    8. pubic rami fractures
    9. right femur mid shaft
    10. left femur (segmental)

    hahah..all in days work. why can i handle all of this now? cos i used to do it as a registrar in the restructured hospitals…so handling his case nnow? ….no big deal…i used to do such cases last time…operate for 20hrs non stop. madness, but if i didnt, i certainly cant do it now..certainly not in pte practise.

    so everyone quit complaining..and go and do your calls. and if you get well trained, look me up. i need very well trained surgeons to replace me and take over my practise.

    starwars


  244. starwars Says:

    also: please dont say anything about nurses!!
    they are the ones who saved my skin countless number of times. they are the ones, who can make your life easy or make it difficult. they are the ones who taught me as a junior doctor what to do. the nurses nowdays are not of yesterday. they are well trained, intelligent and have a whole lot of responsibilities. many of them function as medical officers in private practise…except for the dispensing of medications, they do a whole lot.

    so the junior MO;s here : lets have respect for the nurses ok? we need them as much as they need us.


  245. nypstudent Says:

    Well said starwars

    I am a nursing student in NYP and I feel like docs often talk down to my seniors in the hospitals.

    This is undesireable as nurses are now highly educated and have degrees as well as masters. We are as educated if not more educated that junior doctors that just pass out from medical school.

    We have more ward experiences and often speak to families when doctors are skiving in the MO’s room or taking prolonged lunch breaks.

    I hope docs dont treat as as their maids and treat us as their equals. In general female doctors treat nurses badly but some male doctors are very nice to us and often treat us with good food.

    I think the females are jealous of us as generally we are better looking and more considerate compared to them. Obviously we make better wives compared to them.


  246. nurse2 Says:

    dear nypstudent, well said. wish you all the best in your nursing career.


  247. insider Says:

    The Official Secrets Act (OSA) only applies to information that are considered secret, or classified.

    Besides the OSA, there is an official blanket rule disallowing ALL public and civil servants (those in the know will know the difference between the two) from speaking in a public space on government policies concerning them or otherwise, whether OR NOT they identify themselves (it’s worse if they do), on an UNOFFICIAL capacity.

    Which means the only time a public or civil servant is allowed to speak in public space on government policies is when he or she is speaking in his or her approved official capacity


  248. to insider Says:

    dear insider, is it a criminal offence to violate that blanket rule? or is it a clause in the employment contract?

    how about those teachers who wrote to the newspapers? i know sometimes they wrote under the guise of their relatives and spouses.

    and worse, how about those teachers who blog about everything including their worklife, personal life and commentary on government policies.

    so now we know, thou shalt not criticize or even speak about government policies.

    sigh, how are we going to teach our children to be thinking adults? hmm… “son, i’m going to teach you about critical thinking, BUT never talk about this, about that, blah blah blah, oh, i think it’s better for you not to think at all!” :)


  249. Realisticstudent Says:

    To starwars:

    Firstly, it is time to advance. Gone are the days where we can put up with your 15 calls per month etc. Your attitude speaks very well of the old generation. “if it’s on your plate, just suck it up. Can’t suck it, suck thumb lah!” that’s the kind of top-down approach you are implying in your message.

    The population in singapore has became more demanding. Patients come to you with their googled stuff from the net. Does that happen to you in the past? More and more court cases against med docs. DEFINITELY more than your generation. And you still want the docs today to put up with crazy calls, putting their careers and their patients’ lives on the line?

    You mentioned about the traumatic experience. Why was there a need to go thru that? is that the ONLY way where you can gain clinical acumen? If you think that’s the only way, i feel sad for you cos the only thing you’ve gained so far from all your experience is tunnel-vision, narrow-mindedness and rigidity. Ppl leave the public sector not just for fame and money. They want to lead their own lifestyle, they want work-life balance, they want more time to spend with their families. They want more time to watch their kids grow. You may or may not have a family. If you have, start counting the number of hours you have spent with your kids per year. If you don’t, has grandma/mum got older without you even knowing?

    What kind of docs do singaporeans want ultimately? Docs who can communicate well with them, who know their culture well or an overseas doc who speaks in an accent, who knows no dialect? I’ve done my student internship programme, i’ve seen foreign docs struggle with communication problems. I’ve got patients who only wanted to talk to me instead of my houseofficer from sri lanka who speaks in a heavy indian accent and who doesn’t know chinese culture.


  250. Realisticstudent Says:

    to nypstudent:

    i think you should rewrite your statements. MOs skiving in the MO room? We write our discharge summaries, and do our orders on the computer system mind you.

    STOMP has written that NUH nurses do facebook while working. I wonder whether any of your statements actually hold water.

    Secondly, about breaks. Every now and then in the wards, i hear nurses talking about taking breaks. Some sit on the table tops on the nursing counter chit-chatting, while my O2 sats was not even taken for my patient who’s desaturating.

    If you want to criticise and think so highly of your occupation, i think you should pull up your socks and look at your peers first before you point fingers at others. I’ve illustrated clearly in my previous posts how nurses forgot to administer medicines even when we ordered them.

    if you can’t even carry out your occupation competently, why do you even deserve your job or your nursing diploma for that matter?


  251. starwars Says:

    to realistic student :

    time to advance? well well. lots of things change.but training doesnt. it takes time and u got to put in the hours.

    dont tell me about this older generation please. i am not that old. but old enough to know that u need to put in the hours. if you cant, dont. no one is forcing you to.

    what to do ? it was a traumatic experience then for me. i guess many wont have to go throught that now. but many dont get that kind of training.

    as for me? i dont regret a moment of it looking back.
    and i would give the same advice to the current group of medical officers and registrars.

    for your info: i employ surgeons/and MO’s to work for me in private practise in mt e.

    starwars


  252. starwars Says:

    you know why there are more and more cases against docs? lack of practise and lack of communication.

    thats the major reason.

    do more calls.
    get more training.


  253. To to insider Says:

    quote “dear insider, is it a criminal offence to violate that blanket rule? or is it a clause in the employment contract?”

    Its not a criminal offence. It is a policy within the civil service for all public servants (armed forces and police) and civil servants (civilian public servants). Do you mean something is only enforced when it is a ‘criminal offence’? i can assure you it’s not.

    quote “how about those teachers who wrote to the newspapers? i know sometimes they wrote under the guise of their relatives and spouses.”

    oh, thanks for the tip. If they are shrewd enough to do that, then i guess they can’t be caught. even if caught, they can’t be held accountable since they bothered to ‘cover their backside’. Good job! did I say there’s no way around it? I said there is a policy in place. and that is a FACT.

    and worse, how about those teachers who blog about everything including their worklife, personal life and commentary on government policies.

    quote “so now we know, thou shalt not criticize or even speak about government policies.”

    This applies to only public and civil servants. Are YOU one? you seem to be showing your horse leg. Let me guess. You must be Dempsey! Lol!

    quote “sigh, how are we going to teach our children to be thinking adults? hmm… “son, i’m going to teach you about critical thinking, BUT never talk about this, about that, blah blah blah, oh, i think it’s better for you not to think at all!” :)

    If you’re stupid, it’s easy for you to arrive to, or should I say, jump to the above conclusion. Kneejerk reaction without the possession of critical thinking (due to limited mental abilities) always leads to that, so I’m not surprised.

    There is a reason for everything, including your failings.

    For the smarter folks here who have the brains to think critically beyond that of a plant unlike Ms To Insider aka Dempsey, the policy is set imperatively to prevent public and civil servants from using any public space such as the media and the internet, to propagate their personal work-agenda. This is especially imperative, given that these public and civil servants may pretend to discuss issues that have social references.

    Yes there are the odd few like too-free teachers caught blogging about their students’ English errors caught on STOMP. And they have been dealt with. Just because sins or crimes have been committed doesn’t make the commandments disappear. Are you stupid or what?

    The establishment believes and encourages all employees involved to raise issues they have with their superiors on matters relating to their work. This is ONLY fair.

    Let me assure all that not only the civil service has this policy. So do many private companies. I have known private sector giants that have sacked or brought to task employees who aired their ‘grouses’, coloured with additives and emotions that such mediums typically encourage. Others were plain slander and libel done in the guise of airing ‘grouses’. Some of them were genuine complaints but aired in an unprofessional and coloured manner that Internet commonly brings out. Others were done with ulterior motives and for personal gain. Some were done to discredit former employers that gave them the sack.

    You sound terribly ignorant, almost lacking in intellect, and like you don’t know a single thing about corporate life or the ways of the world. The only way you’re excused is if you were still in school. But alas, you’re actually a graduate, from med school no less. This is what happens when people get inferior education.


  254. sgnurse Says:

    Hey realisticstudent
    What have you got against nurses?
    Did some nurse dump you for someone better.

    Keep your mouth shut and stop badmouthing nurses okay.We work very hard and are underpaid in Singapore.

    I know of doctors who switch off their hps during night call and are uncontactable. Their seniors have to work harder so these lazy doctors can sleep in their call rooms.

    Not only are you rude to nurses in Singapore, you are even rude to your senior doctor (starwars).
    You know why there are so many complaints against doctors like you?
    Cause you think u so smart and know it all, no respect for your fellow colleagues and even nurses . I wonder how you were accepted into medical school!


  255. mybuttisjohn Says:

    I find it hard to believe there’s actually a nurse who thinks that another nurse dumped a junior doc. All the nurses ever do are try their best to date and claw a doctor. But nowadays doctors have wised up. Indeed quite a big number used to marry nurses, esp before the cap on female med students was lifted but now most marry female docs.


  256. siticinta Says:

    One cannot help but to feel sorry for people here who claim that they are in a big private and public practice corporation employing specialist drs/junior doctors/nurses and yet holding such intolerant views on this thread.
    We all won’t deny that such people do hold grandiose delusions. Maybe they are just a nobody in real life and only by coming onto this salary forum, they can assume a avatar insulting others/sprouting nonsense/promoting their beliefs which a lot of readers find distasteful.
    Calling NUS grads farmers is something unacceptable.
    This should be a forum where people are not intimidated or bullied. So what if they email from overseas or from internet café? LOL

    To those people who are unhappy with their working conditions – either put up with it and SHUT UP or seek greener pastures. Have you thought of packing up your bags and head to UK/US/NZ/Australia? It is fairly easy to get into Oz/NZ currently as a dr or a nurse plus NUS grads are very well regarded in these places. Employers will at anytime take in NUS grads to say a Subcontinent grad.


  257. uhappy Says:

    Then let’s all go UK/US/NZ/Australia! Leave this place to the talented newcomers who will rebuild another great city for other newcomers who will replace them eventually.


  258. singaporean Says:

    Hey Singapore is a better place to live in.
    UK/US/NZ/Australia dont treat PRs as well as Singapore.
    Stay in Singapore better.


  259. low cost-low tech Says:

    stay in sgp as PR ??


  260. singaporean Says:

    Its not just NUS grads, but all local grads who are farmers. It’s common knowledge, that they are farmers. Many of the farmers themselves know actually. Don’t you know that by now? How ignorant, you must be one of the farmers.

    So lame to say you’re superior than Indian grads in Australia and to think Singapore’s favourite pastime is to claim it’s a developed country (which it isn’t) when India’s Indian Institute of Technology is more regarded and recognised and rated way better by Financial Times than any of Singapore’s mickey mouse, lao pok ‘universities’ that are really of the standard of UK’s polytechnics.

    In any case, few people outside Singapore know of NUS’s existence, and the few who do don’t give a damn.


  261. singaporean Says:

    and siticinta, who cares if you think that anyone is holding “grandiose delusions”? If someone didn’t have something and isn’t something and said he did and is, it always makes him feel worse I think. Can you imagine, if I was a farmer like you, and I actually proclaim not to be? Wouldn’t that make me feel worse? I’m sure it soothes your ego better than we didn’t have and is not, just like YOU, so knock yourself out! Probably helps you sleep better at night.


  262. asmara Says:

    wow, it seem that this forum is getting heated up again over NUS grads versus grads from certain nations.

    sounds like someone from Terra Australis is giving a lecture on this forum telling us about the red dot’s mickey mouse institutions! hoorayyy

    what’s wrong with farmers? in Australia/NZ farmers in certain areas (with adequate rain) are rich. In Australia, farmers are not peasants. some ignorant people on this thread still has a notion whereby farmers = peasants.
    sounds like there are people who are not well travelled and are stuck in their lao pok world.


  263. singaporean Says:

    The word isn’t used literally, but figuratively so no need to tell me how well-to-do farmers in NZ are and how many oxens they have. Perhaps these farmer lao pok universities should send their enrolled students back to primary school for some foundation course before they start year 1 of their cheap, low quality intellectual experience.


  264. peasant Says:

    er… i thought peasants are better than farmers. in singapore, all citizens are farmers cos the foreigners rule over them! hahaha…


  265. Realisticstudent Says:

    to starwars:

    more calls does not equate to more training. You don’t learn when you are fatigued. You don’t learn when you are in robotic mode, clerking, and ordering investigations in auto mode when you are tired.

    i suppose after experiencing years of fatigue, you fail to understand this point.

    We need to put in hours. Quality hours. Not hours when you are brain dead.


  266. Realisticstudent Says:

    to sgnurse:

    nurses work 8 hour shifts. I’m pretty sure if you count the per-hour rate, nurses earn more than house officers.


  267. to peasant Says:

    errrm no, not us. Have you ever thought that only YOU FEEL you are at the mercy of foreigners? Please don’t drag all Singaporeans into your insecurities and psychological issues of unworthiness. Its all fine and great that you have the inferiority complex towards foreigners. I don’t and all my peers say the same. In fact, we look down on some of them! Save the inferiority complex for yourself only ok? Haha

    And errm farmer is the same as peasant. Both terms are used figuratively and they mean the same. In Singapore, farmer was first used because 9 out of 10 farmers do not know what peasant means or do not come in contact with the word ‘peasant’ often.

    I find it absolutely hilarious that some deluded NUS med students can think Aussie med grads from Melbourne Uni and ANU would deign to consider their lao pok farmer school that’s good at nothing but boasting to the world that it’s “world-class” and “top-ranked” on nothing but lies.

    The lies have been exposed by temasekreview.com


  268. to peasant Says:

    btw, on a sidenote to the NUS farmer who says that he thinks “all foreigners rule over citizens”, do you happen to know the citizenship of your rulers? hahah oh my freaking gawd


  269. Slave of Medicine Says:

    WOW!!I have missed all the actions!!
    Thanks to Dempsey for having the courage to fight for your rights and voice out your honest opinions. I have stopped visiting this forum for a while. Didn’t expect that people out there are assuming that both of us are of the same person!! just because we have the courage to express our anger and concerns. PErhaps they were hoping that I will not visit this forum again, coz I’ve been giving bias opinions to other people, and scaring the foreign docs away…haha.. you all are adults, and well educated. U can always ask your friends for an honest opinion too!!

    Well, we shall stop fighting! coz this is not a place that practice democracy, they dun take feedback, and doctors are meant to work like a dog! If you don’t, u are considered as a lazy, low EQ, useless and a money sucker! They are not solving the problems. They will try to solve the problems by forcing people to privatE? admin? locum? GP? or ask us to change our profession! Well done, continue to do that..i’m sure there will be enough doctors to sustain the workload in the HOSPITALS in the future.

    This medical system is going from bad to worse..it will be worse when residency programme take place. If you genuinely want to attract foreign talents into the medical system, please be transparent and honest to us! and not to publish false information on the net, all of the foreign grads are being masked from the truth!

    PEOPLE OUT THERE!! please find out about the residency programme before u come over!! don’t be cheated like anyone of us!!
    you will be overworked, >80 hours a week, have to cover the “residents” to suck up all the crappy jobs, because they have protected time to study!??? and they only see limited amount of cases (apparently 5 cases per day?) in a day in order to give them a better training???!!

    Talking about equal opportunity? yeah rite.. that is soooo not true!
    Duke’s students = they will be a resident by default?? = first class?

    BSTs = trainees that are not getting protected time to STUDY, and have to suck up all the work that will be left behind by the residents = second class

    Non-trainess = suck up the jobs that are left behind by all of the above. If you are applying into the STRUCTURED residency programme, u will have to start with R1, which is equivalent to the housemanship. Despite of how many yrs u’ve been working as a MO = third class

    Good luck to the new system, good luck to those people whom had been cheated into the system, Good luck to people that refused to take feedback seriously, and lastly good luck to all the poor patients out there…

    Admin people; continue to make our life miserable
    goverment servants; continue to imagine that we are more well paid and not overworked
    Private surgeons; continue to work in private and attract more talents from the public. They deserve to have a better work life
    Public doctors; continue to be a slave until u are willing to stop the slavery and fight for your own rights!!!
    Nurses; it’s not wrong to aim high, or aim to marry a rich doctor.. we must be ambitious at all times. BUT not all doctors are rich..

    THE END


  270. peasant Says:

    i’m saying that in general, foreigners (PRs and non-PRs) have it better than most singaporeans, thanks to our government’s super friendly foreign “talent” policies (hey, minister shanmugam just said it’s ok to criticize policies… is he referring to newspapers or citizens?).

    so friendly that even inferior “talent” like zhang yuan yuan managed to get her PR in a mere 2 months. that makes all of us super talents and geniuses, but what use is that?


  271. peasant Says:

    “BUT not all doctors are rich”

    haha, how true. aim for the senior consultants.


  272. starwars Says:

    realistic student :

    nah..you wont make it eventually. that much i can say.
    dont try to specialise..it will be too demoralising for you.


  273. starwars Says:

    slave of medicine:

    yes. i just have 2 ortho surgeons planning to work for me in private practise. they are well trained and have done tons of cases….

    but i am concered about this residency programs. i think that seeing a few cases is just not enough.
    you need to see a wide variety of cases.

    i am going to voice my concerns to satku and at council and the SMA


  274. siticinta Says:

    there are bigoted people out there who pass their judgement so quickly on others. it is sad that they are living in their own little world and they think that specialising is everything!

    just look at our dear Dr Georgia Lee at TLC; is she is a specialist?
    we all know that she makes more money than some of the intolerant people out here on this forum and no doubts they are jealous of her. nobody has even mentioned her in this forum.
    One doens’t need to specialise in medicine to be on Tattler.

    with the Duke graduates – i am not surprised that many of them will end up in the US after the 4 year bond. Plus, they will be prepared to sit for USMLE. Should do a survey and see how many of them will stay behind in sgp after say 10 years. Only time will tell


  275. Realisticstudent Says:

    to starwars:

    whether i make it or not is not the problem. You are taking the discussion to a personal level.

    The point i was putting across was quite clear. You need time to learn, you need to be in the right situation to learn. I don’t see how seeing many many patients can aid in learning when you don’t even have time to reflect and think thru what you have seen due to the huge case load.


  276. low cost-low tech Says:

    let’s go for 1 round at dempsey to help reflect & think thru. cheers !!!


  277. mediator Says:

    let’s not be antagonistic.

    senior doctors, try to recall what you were thinking when you were still junior MOs- i’m sure you were idealistic and had lots of good suggestions but maybe didn’t have the chance or platform to voice them out.

    junior doctors, listen to the valuable advice from your seniors. they have a wealth of experience, only waiting to be shared with you.

    administrators, listen to all sides with an open mind and try to explain your position persuasively but respectfully.

    foreign doctors, maybe you can also talk a bit on the medical system in your country, whether you like it or think it can be improved.

    life’s already stressful enough. be nice and may we have a fruitful discussion here. cheers.


  278. to zyy Says:

    peasant, have you ever stopped to wonder that you blame your government for welcoming foreigners to take up citizenship here, because of your inability to think, rationalise, your own low IQ, and your intellectual limitations?

    have you ever stopped to wonder that its your own weakness and failings that prevent you from understanding what your government sees?

    I have spoken to Singaporeans, who could see what they see, and who understand. I guess not all people are created equally. In terms of intellect. We all knew that right from the start.

    Are you replacing yourselves? How old are you? late 20s? 30s? 40?

    How many of your friends your age, say use your secondary school batch of friends in your circle as a guide, how many are married? Out of these, how many have children? How many have more than one kid? How many have more than 2?

    I asked some Singaporean friends in their late 20s to early and mid 30s (28-35). All of them replied that less than half are married, and out of whom, more than half are childless, and the ones with kids only have 1 to 2.

    Lets use the ‘best’ case scenario of 2 kids. 2 kids from 2 adult parents. 2 over 2. When the 2 adults die (father and mother), the 2 kids ‘take over’ the population. WHEN A MARRIED COUPLE HERE, SINGAPOREAN OR OTHERWISE HAVE TWO CHILDREN, THEY ARE ONLY REPLACING THEMSELVES. THEY ARE NOT EVEN MULTIPLYING THE POPULATION! THEY ARE JUST BARELY REPLACING IT!

    When 2 adults have 1 kid, they are NOT REPLACING IT. 2 for 1. If this was an investment product, it has a 100% depreciation rate.

    When 2 adults have NO kid, it’s a 200% depreciation loss maker.

    Now do you understand the gravity of the situation for you guys? Come 25 to 30 years when the current batch of baby boomers (now in late 40s and 50s) are in their 70s and 80s, the most efficient workforce in their 20s to 30s (who would be babies now) would barely be 20% of the seniors. H0w are the young going to support the seniors? How will it done? The whole country will collapse. Income tax will probably be about 80% (like in UK and US’s 50% to 70% now). The GDP will barely be enough to cover 10% of the healthcare costs and more social problems caused by 10 elderly persons to 0.5 productive person below aged 40. Your government gives out PR status ‘easily’ (in your opinion), even to people like Zhang Yuan Yuan to some foreigners, so that they would be more inclined to take up citizenship and make the place their home long-term. The foreigners’ offsprings would also have Singapore citizenship and considered natives. The Chinese are especially preferred because they contribute to the racial balance here. I notice the Singaporean Chinese citizens do not have many children, or more choosy about spouses compared to the minority races. I think that was an issue that greatly troubled your government. YOu can connect the dots yourself, if you know your history. I won’t spell anything out.

    Population not replacing themselves is not a uniquely Singapore. Almost all developed countries have battled this problem in the last 10 years. In other words, it’s a problem that commonly afflicts developed economies, whereas third world countries can’t seem to be able to control their population from making more babies. France, Japan, UK, South Korea, Australia and most of the other developed economies of the EU have a population replacement problem.

    The only developed country that have coped well with it and even beat it successfully is the US, one of the most immigrant-friendly country in the world. It was only through migrants that it was able to keep his population multiplied and sustain the future of the country.

    In 2006, the US just saw its population cross the 300 millionth mark, the main driver of which, stated by the US government and economists are new migrants, and the children of naturalized migrants.

    “The United States’ total fertility rate is 2.1, which means that, on average, each woman gives birth to 2.1 children throughout her life. The total fertility rate of 2.1. means a stable no-growth population overall. However, immigration plays a huge impact on the growing U.S. population. Overall the United States population is growing at 0.9% a year as of 2007.”

    “Of the 117 million people added to the population during this period due to the effect of new immigration, 67 million will be the immigrants themselves and 50 million will be their U.S.-born children or grandchildren.”

    http://geography.about.com/od/obtai...

    The US’s 200 millionth citizen, Bobby Woo aka Robert Woo Jr was born in Atlanta, Georgia in 1967, was a Chinese baby of migrants.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/robe...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert....

    http://www.asianweek.com/2009/09/16...

    So maybe you gripe about your government because you’re too stupid for them. No wonder so many foreigners leave messages I see all the time online after they left SG like “Singapore, good government. Stupid people.”

    Based on my interactions with native Singaporeans educated here, I feel that most of them are quite to very dumb, unable to think critically, on top of having poor English. They simply don’t have the ability to rationalise. I wonder whether it’s caused by the universities here.

    There are a few brilliant SIngaporeans I’ve met, who’ve had good education. I think the wheat is separated from the chaff right from the start. Your ruler LKY was right about genetics.


  279. How is life as a doctor in Singapore? - Salary.sg Forums Says:

    [...] you read the comments at: Doctors’ pay | Salary.sg – Your Salary in Singapore and Income of GP Doctors | Salary.sg – Your Salary in Singapore [...]


  280. starwars Says:

    hahah…what was i thinking when i was truding around the hospitals at 4 am in the morning?
    and operating for days on end? i was cursing of cos!!!
    i told myself..what on earth am i doing? why are these pple torturing me??? why am i doing this??

    only when i became a consultant, then did i see the light. all those years…
    they were all a necessary evil.

    i am concerned now that with the new residency programs, it will not be enough practise for the younger surgeons. basically the more you see, the more you do, the better you become.

    there is NO such thing as a text book case in medicine. there is a wide wide variation.

    so to all the junior doctors out there : believe me..i was cursing more than you. complaining more than you and being paid a whole lot less than you!!!

    but then…looking back now..i still say it was a necessary evil.
    tired, hot, frustrated…..angry…it all paid off eventually.

    so please do the same all the younger doctors here.
    cos at the end of the day….YOU WILL BE THE ONES WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF ME!!!

    SO FOR HEAVENS SAKES, PLEASE STOP WHINING AND GO AND DO THE CALLS.

    and dont screw up when its your turn to treat me when i get old!!!


  281. michael Says:

    Starwars – well said .. though I am not a doctor, the same applies for any profession that needs passion and dedication.

    I’d rather be a pig than a chicken.

    Cheers

    PS: how do I reach you ??


  282. starwars Says:

    thanks for agreeing with me michael.

    actually that is the biggest fear many of us consultants have now.
    cos its the younger doctors now who will eventually treat us when we get old.
    so they need to get as much experience as possible.
    after all, who is going to do our knee replacements? hip replacements? cardiac bypass? stenting etc etc?

    go and practise practise and practise.

    and then when i get old, i will look for those with the best hands and experience.

    i dont want some joker who scored only distinctions in medicine/and surgery but did not get the necessary hands on experience!!


  283. kincaid Says:

    starwars – are you able to provide us the figures of rate of MRSA joint infections in your joint replacements?

    I do agree that practice makes perfect.

    Would you feel safe if you were being operated by a junior registrar, say you are a public patient?


  284. poordoc Says:

    people migrate in search of better life in their life time, and as a result, there comes problems and improvements together.
    what we need, in my mind’s eye, is individual rational thinking for a destination.
    if you feel like it, do it.
    or if not, don’t do it.
    no need to argue personally diverting pointing fingers to others whenever one finds pitfalls throughout the endeavour of migration.


  285. rosmah Says:

    the issue of fatigue amongst hospital staff, ie drs and nurses and other allied health workers have been brought out in this forum even before the KK saga

    http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/1...

    recalcitrant fools here in this forum refuse to acknowledge that fatigue is a big stumbling block to making appropriate decisions in patient care.
    they will just shoot down and do all the name callings of their opponents like cry spoilt babies


  286. Realisticstudent Says:

    Some ppl would just blindly bite the bullet. Singapore, or should i say, most developed countries have come to a stage where patients, with their greater power and autonomy, have became more demanding as well. Gone are the days where they are just going to listen to their doctors and do their bidding.

    Service quality is more and more expected from the healthcare sector. Chronic fatigue due to excessive calls, long work hours (the “necessary evil”, as someone else above put it) will eventually lead to negligence of some sort.

    I don’t see how come it is so difficult to understand that lack of sleep and recuperation makes one less able to concentrate in his job. And studies have also proven that lack of sleep decreases one’s immune system. So ultimately, docs who work for hours on end are putting their patients at risk not just due to potential medical negligence secondary to their tiredness, but also from an increase risk in spreading infections cos of their decreased immunity.


  287. starwars Says:

    MRSA for my joint infections?
    zero for the past 10 years.

    getting operated on by a junior registrar? no thanks.
    infections rates have been proven to be highest in the places with the lowest numbers of joint replacements. its in all the major orthopaedic journals in the world.
    and they also tend to be highest in the most junior surgeons.

    but having said that, i too was once a registrar .
    i didnt become good over night.
    no one does.
    i guess malcolm gladwells book outliers and the 10,000 hours principle is true.

    chronic fatigue? as if i dont know about it.
    but it wont change…at least not for now. the calls will be here to stay.

    but i know which direction we are headed.

    we are moving to the direction of the US and UK.
    there will be a whole lot more surgeons, and insufficient hands on practise.

    the question is, : what is the right balance?
    i dont know.
    but the 10,000 hour principle is certainly required to get the right amount of practise.

    and how does one reach the 10,000 hour principle?

    you are right : DOING MORE CALLS.

    see? its the chicken and egg scenario.
    argue all you want.

    its the truth. practise makes perfect.
    and that you cant change.

    but i have said it many times before ; do i like calls? of cos not! are you crazy?
    but how does one get good?
    u got to put in the hours.

    simple.
    if you are tired? sleep. take short naps. dont have to make decisions immediately. learn to manage your time.
    see the case later.
    operate later.
    learn to live on a few hours sleep. 4-5 hrs is enough for most pple.
    can always sleep another time.

    at least that is how i did it.

    if you dont like the calls, simple. quit.
    no one is forcing anyone to do it. and no one will think ill of you if you do.

    its a free society.
    you can come and go as you choose.

    if you think we work hard?
    no way compared to those at the Mayo clinic.
    those guys are crazy.
    they start ward rounds at 4 30am.
    and revision total hips at 10pm at night. and they say if you dont like it or cant take it, simple, you can always quit.
    there are tons of others who will fill the position in a heart beat.

    and lets stop all this name calling.
    and to each his own.

    i have done it.
    i am not forcing anyone else here to do it right?
    so why get angry with some of us who disagree?
    this is an open forum. why all the name calling?

    we all have a right to agree or disagree.
    there will be some who will agree with me and others who wont.

    so be it.
    everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    i think i have said my 2 cents worth about calls and fatigue.


  288. adiemuso Says:

    starwars,

    i applaud you and those doctors of similar attitude.

    think you have to cut these distractions here now.

    its not worth playing the harp to the cow.


  289. 777 Says:

    I applaud starwars too. he makes the most sense. I share his fear that it is the current batch of ‘junior’ doctors who may become surgeons, and who may operate on me.

    Yikes!


  290. Realisticstudent Says:

    well like i said earlier, gone are the days where patients will just listen to their doctors. Working long hours may have worked in the past, cos patients don’t complain as much. I’m pretty sure that with so much fatigue, there were medical errors and these errors didn’t really surface cos no one complained nor did anything about it.

    Taking a nap, managing time? I simply don’t see how a houseofficer has that much time to manage. perhaps, if you didn’t know since it was a good god damn many years ago since you last did the job of a houseofficer, there are many changes to do, and it has to be done within the day. Hell, most of the time, one can’t even go for a post-call. And is that healthy? for both patient and doctor? I certainly don’t think so.

    More importantly, medical education, the learning etc shouldn’t be built upon a foundation where we put our patients at risk cos we doctors are tired when we work and learn cos of the long hours.

    One of the main aims of new residency programme is to curb “overworked” doctors who not only do they not learn much cos of fatigue, they make errors while working.

    Look at the many lawsuits that NUH is already facing. Do we want the medical scene in singapore to head towards the way of the states where so much lawsuits take place? I don’t think so.

    The best step to protect such a situation is to ensure a system where doctors can not only learn, but are able to get enough rest so as to provide the best care for their patients.


  291. starwars Says:

    realistic student :

    if you hate medicine that much, then give it up
    dont do calls. resign.
    you can always go and become a GP tomorrow.

    cos if you really hate it that much, then resign.
    no one is putting a gun to your head.

    and as for the errors, its not always due to fatigue. some certainly are. but a lot are due to o lack of practise or breach in protocol.

    you speak as though i was never a house officer before.

    comeon, i was in medicine way before you. have seen a whole lot more and done a whole lot more even before you started.

    so pls dont preach to others. especially to me.

    this forum is for us to air our views.
    so i have aired mine.

    if you really hate medicine so much, then quit.
    quit quit quit.

    cos i really cant imagine having a surgeon like yourself treating the singapore population in the future.

    that i can say for a fact.

    the difference in everyones career is simply :

    knowledge, skills, attitude and practise.

    you may have the knowledge and the skills..but if you lack the attitude and the practise, how on earth can you make it in medicine?
    let alone in any industry?

    i am sure that all the comments we have made in the past few months are not just pertaining to medicine.
    this is a requirement in every single professsion and job.

    we all start from the bottom and work our way to the top.
    you mean to say that the lawyers too dont work as hard as we do?
    comeon…dont be naive. they too have dead lines and the most junior ones are perpetually in a state of chronic fatigue. as are the bankers, the brokers the accountants etc etc.
    medicine is no different. we all need to work very hard, irrespective of the profession.

    what ultimately makes the difference between having a successful or unsuccessful career is the KSAP.

    mark my words.
    come back to forum in 3 to 5 years and tell me where you stand compared to your peers.
    and prove me wrong.

    Dr. Jeffrey Chew
    MBBS(Singapore) FRCS(Glasgow)
    FRCS(Edinburgh)M.Med(Surgery)(Singapore)
    FICS(USA) FAMS(Orthopaedics)(Singapore)
    Mayo Alumnus(Mayo Clinic)(USA)

    Managing Director
    Centre for Orthopaedic Group of Companies

    Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeon
    Joint Replacement Specialist and Sports Surgeon

    Centre for Orthopaedics and Hip and Knee Surgery
    Centre for Sports and Shoulder and Elbow Surgery
    Centre for Spine and Orthopaedic Surgery

    Mount Elizabeth Medical Centre
    Gleneagles Medical Centre
    East Shore Medical Centre


  292. angrydoc Says:

    Dear realistic student:

    Don’t give up. You are the future doctor. We share the same feeling.

    Starwars is just showing the arrogant of typical surgeon and think he is boss of Singaporean and call all who don’t agree with him to quit.

    Starwars if you are so good, don’t only show all your qualification. Win me a Nobel prize and see. You should wander why still no Singaporean win any of this prize.

    Refuse to make yourself too fatigue to endanger the patient doesn’t mean we don’t work hard. People still don’t understand that… I don’t think Warren Buffet work as hard as you…

    If you think
    work hard and get more call and fatigue = achievement and success
    more qualification= better person then can show off

    Many people will just laugh and you.

    I believe we can have life and be a good doctor. Take the time to gain experience and not shorten the learning curve and work until become a dead fish to endanger yourself and your patient.


  293. tostarwars Says:

    hahahahha …..
    mr chew –
    “if you hate medicine that much, then give it up
    dont do calls. resign.
    you can always go and become a GP tomorrow. ”

    you sound very arrogant and it sounds that you have a chip on your shoulder – yessssssssss
    . By the way, one doesn’t need to be a specialist to be on Singapore Tattler. Dr Georgia Lee has done well if not better than you – and does it piss you off ;P ? HAHAHAHA.

    By the way, you have failed to mention about your joint infection rates in the last 20 years; you have only mentioned the last 10 years.

    And so why aren’t you setting up a private practice at The Mayo Clinic since you are so good? Hahahah … cannot make it there is it? ;)


  294. angrydoc Says:

    Its seem experience and status is more important for starwar. Climbing to the top is so important that he forget about the first principle of medicine- ‘do no harm ‘.

    Don’t tell me that you will advice people to drive more to be more experience so reduce MVA. Get enough sleep and better road infrastructure and better car with good safety features are probably more important. Fatigue and drive (or operate/write prescription) are just going to kill you and others. So if you are driving (working in) a lousy car which run at 60km/hr (hospital admin sys) and you want to be safer and do yr work more efficiently, then you better change a new car which is safer (change the admin sys).

    ‘Do no harm’ also should be extended to be respectful for junior and colleague. I don’t think he respect others either. Just show off.. Show off the way Mayo clinic practice N year ago probably and ask people to follow…

    That is the problem to have a medical doctor to be the director… Doctor should be medical director only, not MANAGING DIRECTOR… without the management knowledge and QUALIFICATION to manage an organization….(some will say, experience enough already maaa…) then you will see more and more hosp admin (who is doc) talk like this. Go and read something about organization behavior not orhto text book when you want to talk to a group of people…


  295. Realisticstudent Says:

    to starwars,

    like i said before. It was a good god damn years eons ago when you were a houseofficer.

    You may have done more, but unfortunately, i think you have not really progressed much in terms of mentality and attitude over the “years” of training which you so proudly acclaim.

    Why do i say so? Your arrogance speaks for itself.

    Secondly, your ignorance in the current state of affairs also speaks for itself. Like i said earlier, gone are the days when patients just do their doctors’ bidding. Your method of crude, brute training by seeing more cases, doing more even though you are fatigued, making errors along the way and fortunately no one notices or complains against you, DOES NOT WORK TODAY.

    Who says i’m out to be a surgeon? What i want to do in medicine is none of your business, in case you are personal. I thought consultants and maybe middle-age adults like yourself should show much more maturity in a forum and in a discussion.

    The right attitude to learning in medicine is to see one, do one and to teach one. And of course, in the process, learn. You just do calls like a robot, you are fatigued, let’s see how are you going to “see one, do one and teach one” when you are zombied cos of chronic fatigue.


  296. Realisticstudent Says:

    to starwars:

    where i stand compared to my peers was never an issue. There was no need at all to compare anything, from grades, clinical ability etc. Why was there a need to compare? Do you gain anything from it? Other than stress or the occasional self-inflation of your ego?

    In case you didn’t know, in life, as long as you are happy, anything goes.

    You can spend your whole life working up the ladder, feeling stressed about hospital politics, comparing how many ops/calls you’ve done compared to your fellow colleagues etc, and like what others have said here, at the end of the day, you’ll be the subject of laughter of the peers you’ve “beaten”.


  297. lawyer Says:

    obviously Realisticstudent is not aiming to be a specialist like starwars. He isn’t cut out for it. I suspect it’s the same person as that dempsey that keeps quoting Georgia Lee, and who did so again under the new moniker tostarwars. And please, Lee doesn’t make as much as what the ENT, cardiology and orthopaedic and plastic surgery surgeons make. If you all envy Lee’s life so much, believing that she makes as much money as specialists (she does not) through a short-cut without having to specialise, by all means go ahead. Let’s see what happens and where you end up. I agree whole-heartedly with Dr Chew here.

    And hor, please don’t be naive. The aesthetic medicine scene here is so crowded. I see new names popping up every week in a magazine, with a new doc sucking the balls of the media hoping to get their name to appear. It’s so saturated now, we can imagine it would get 10 times worse in 5 years time, and 20 times in 10 years. Do you honestly think the Singapore market is as mature as the aesthetic market in first world countries like the US? dream on.

    And no need to keep citing Georgia Lee lah.

    p/s: Ermm btw the people appearing in Tatler are nowhere even the 1st tier rich in Singapore. The real rich folks in Singapore, the people with a solid reputation due to their profession, family business and the old money do not appear in Tatler. Even some lameass dental surgeon can appear in these society mags nowadays, and everyone knows its because some of them buy ad space. You need to grow up.


  298. lawyer Says:

    And dempsey, when you can’t even spell Tatler right, you will never appear in it.


  299. tolawyer Says:

    sounds like a deluded fool who is here to make a mockery of himself.
    Who cares who dempsey is. You seem to be so hung up by her.

    Everybody knows that Georgia makes more money than some of those specialists out there. No wonder there are so many pathetic jealous fellow doctors out there who see red when her name is mentioned ;) .

    if you call yourself a lawyer (i suspect that u are just faking it) then you r not even fit to sweep the floors of The Supreme Court! ;) . I suspect that you haven’t got the intellectual capacity to even perform that.


  300. angrydoc Says:

    2 issues here.

    1) Lawyer not fit to give his comment here. he/she might be second name for starwar…

    2) Starwar said:’if you hate medicine that much, then give it up dont do calls. resign. you can always go and become a GP tomorrow’.

    so hate medicine or loser should be GP?

    it seem there is discrimination here.

    Someone can just report it to relevant GP organisation.

    I think Webmater should say something here. Starwar clearly owe all GPs a a big apologize.


  301. prof Says:

    It seems that young drs nowadays have no repect for their elders

    An irony for rude juniors claiming that their seniors are rude to them.

    It is a sad fact that lots of unsuitable people are admitted into medicine. Many junior drs are choosing lifestyles careers instead of specialties which require them to be on call.

    When it is time for me to retire (in the near future), I wonder who will take care of me?


  302. adiemuso Says:

    to all who believe hardwork is not neccessary

    CNN Money article on Warren Buffett

    and btw warren buffett works ver very hard for his money. the hours that he put in in scrutinising the reports, figures and research is mind boggling. top guys are perfectionist.

    its a zero sum game, i believe barring good luck n inheritance, between hardwork n money.


  303. rosmah Says:

    “Prof” you had mentioned “It is a sad fact that lots of unsuitable people are admitted into medicine. Many junior drs are choosing lifestyles careers instead of specialties which require them to be on call. ”

    lifestyle careers? r u implicating the hard working GPs who are serving the poor at the Polyclinics?

    If your answer if yes, that means you are downplaying the important role of some of your renowed colleagues like Prof Goh Lee Gan.

    From the way you write, you do not sound like a real ‘prof’.
    Respectable professors like Prof Goh Lee Gan and Prof Chee YC do not dish disparaging remarks like you.


  304. sgdr Says:

    Dear rosmah,
    I think prof is referring to lifestyle specialty that trainees have to copay to enter. (Opthalmo, ENT, Derm, Plastic Surgery)

    Polyclinic posting is never popular with bonded mo until recently. The reason is that non trainees mo will become service mos when residency starts next yr.

    Polyclinc posting is a hardship posting in the past but now it is becoming popular not because it is a slack posting but other hospital postings (except derm, ent and eye)are worse and require u to be on call.

    Let’s hope hosp admin manages to recruit more drs in future to Singapore. With UK, Australia shutting their doors to asian drs, Singapore will benefit from their losses!


  305. lawyer Says:

    tolawyer, pls lah, stop making a fool of yourself here dempsey!

    If you think that anyone who embarrasses you by exposing what a dumb idiot you are must be starwars, i think your ‘intellectual ability’ is so shameful, its best you quit so that you won’t get to ‘treat’ any of the countrymen resulting in death and disaster.

    Your idea of someone who has arrived is by appearing in the media, which goes to show what a fool you are. you probably think those Fly entertainment artistes and mediacorp starlets are damn rich and earn more money than surgeons, perm secs and AOs. i think such a big fool like you didn’t deserve to get into med school. Wow I didn’t know its so easy to get into med school when people of such ‘intellectual standards’ also can make it.

    Anyone who isn’t a bumpkin and is actually clued in on the high society here knows about how only third rate wannabes try their darnest to get into the low-class society magazines here while the truly rich like the Kwees, the Ngs and the Khoos do not deign to ever appear and make a fool of themselves. Even some freakin loser can buy an ad and get the yearly invites to the low class society balls that only losers aspire to go hahaah! And we know how many of such dental surgery outfits there are in Singapore.

    Only such a try-hard wannabe and aspirant like you don’t know such things, yet have to cheek and gall to make a disgrace of yourself in a public space.


  306. lawyer Says:

    and realisticstudent, no need to go on making a fool of yourself like dempsey here (but i must say she’s a bigger disgrace) by repeating ad nauseam the same line over and over when it has been addressed and you have failed to address it properly.

    Its either you’re intentionally evading or you have such a poor sense of logic that you fail to see it. Your continual harping on the same point= fatigue -> mistakes

    starwars has said that fatigue is the only cause of mistakes. In fact, lack of practice and not following protocol are already two other factors he can easily pull out of his hat. Yet you keep on harping the same point claiming that patients these days are different and may not listen to their doctors subserviently when they make mistakes. Its back to the same point! if you had more practice, you decrease the odds of mistakes.

    You have failed to convince anyone that all mistakes made are attributed in a justifiable manner to fatigue, and you have failed to convince also that there is some other issue here other than your own aversion to hard work and paying your dues.


  307. lawyer Says:

    The fact that you can’t even spell the name of the low class magazine that those of us who have truly arrived spit on, Tatler correctly, makes dempsey aka tostarwars and tolawyer, the biggest fool of this forum. Has anyone ever seen the top earners, the CEO of Keppel, Capitaland, Temasek, the ministers, the top surgeons making a big of themselves..hahahahah

    Tatler and prestige, home of the aspirants, the SME towkays and owners of little small high-fashion boutiques and standalone jewellery shop hahahahahaha. What a twit.


  308. tolawyer Says:

    “lawyer” aka mutated dempsey – whatever this twit wants to call himself

    hahaha .. sounds like someone was missing when brains were being distributed *a big hug for our “lawyer”* – we all feel sorry for him

    He is just an insecure fella sprouting nonsense on this forum – and we all suspect that he is a mutated form of dempsey

    my advice to you is to go back to prep school/ primary one to serve your time. At least it will make you a little more agile in the intellectual sense, than the (literal) handicaps that we find among the peasants.


  309. lawyer Says:

    errm you’re Dempsey. The jig is up.

    Shameful.

    p/s: finally learnt to spell Tatler? hahahahaha


  310. PA Says:

    Dear starwars, I wonder if you can help me answer the following questions;

    * what is the salary range for nuclear medicine technologist in Singapore? Is it in high demand?

    * what abt the salary range for surgical physician assistant in Singapore? I don’t see many job openings for SPAs in Singapore. Over here (USA), 75% of the PAs make abt $75K to $100K a year (USD). I wonder how much I can expect to make if I return to Singapore for good.

    Surgical Physician Assistant

    * assisting in surgery (1st or 2nd assist);
    * taking patient histories;
    * performing physical examinations;
    * inserting and removing various catheters and devices; and
    * performing wound care.

    Thanks.


  311. children Says:

    I am a child and i need lots of love and care…


  312. tolawyer Says:

    “errm you’re Dempsey. The jig is up.
    Shameful.
    p/s: finally learnt to spell Tatler? hahahahaha”

    looks like someone is Dempsey himself trying to put up a smoke screen here

    hahahahah … TATTTTTLER ….
    or whatever
    i can’t be bothered to spell that correctly.

    Anyway, you are the one who is hung up as you are not featured in there or even Cleo! (we know that you don’t have that X factor)
    You should see Kakakkk Georgia to have her to give you a good botox ;) .. oops i am not sure if that will make you look any more gorgeous .. maybe Uncle Woffles or Uncle Martin can chip in to help out :P

    For all we know you are the bogus lawyer lurking around in this forum.
    You sound like a cleaner who was rejected by a law firm!
    never mind lah … you enjoy your role plays .. go and pray pray okkkkkkkk heheheheh


  313. Kevin Says:

    Hey Lawyer,

    Sorry to poke my nose in .. you just pushed the spoiler into this interesting conversation ..

    If you are a real lawyer, you should know that such third class cussing means you only show your own upbringing.

    PS: I am not supporting or opposing anybody, I am just disgusted with this kind of name calling ..


  314. aspiring surgeon Says:

    dear starwars:
    may i humbly find out how much an average private orthopaedic surgeon is able to get per annum?


  315. Realisticstudent Says:

    To lawyer:

    One thing i can say for sure is this. Some ppl think that being a specialist is everything.

    What i can say is this. medicine is an occupation which has ample opportunities for everyone.

    That being said, if the only thing you can think about is being a specialist and that being the be all and end all, i’d say, you have a miserable tunnel-track vision, and i view your poor life in dismay.

    Do continue to run the rat race with the tunnel-track vision.

    P.S: no point trying to speculate whether i’m to specialise in future or not. i can’t believe that ppl in this comment page who are supposed to be well-achieved doctors are still acting like spoilt brats without a tad bit of maturity in a discussion/debate.


  316. Realisticstudent Says:

    to lawyer,

    re: post 306.

    “and realisticstudent, no need to go on making a fool of yourself like dempsey here (but i must say she’s a bigger disgrace) by repeating ad nauseam the same line over and over when it has been addressed and you have failed to address it properly.”

    It hasn’t been addressed. Pardon me for my “incompetence” but with your “intellectual abilities”, pls point out how the main issue i’ve been raising ad nausem has been addressed properly. All i see are diversions to the issue i’ve been mentioning.

    “Its either you’re intentionally evading or you have such a poor sense of logic that you fail to see it. Your continual harping on the same point= fatigue -> mistakes”

    Again, let me reply ad nausem. I continue to harp on it cos it hasn’t been addressed. Some ppl would rather the fatigue continue with the 10000hour principle, or work-to-death principle. I wonder how such paradoxical concepts are a recipe for training and learning.

    “starwars has said that fatigue is the only cause of mistakes. In fact, lack of practice and not following protocol are already two other factors he can easily pull out of his hat. Yet you keep on harping the same point claiming that patients these days are different and may not listen to their doctors subserviently when they make mistakes. Its back to the same point! if you had more practice, you decrease the odds of mistakes.”

    You need more practice yes. But not when you are fatigued and putting patients’ lives at risk. You practice when you are of sound mind and body physique, so that you can make precise and accurate medical judgement, and learn accordingly. Let me give you a simpler analogy, just in case a person like you on ivory tower fails to see the ground issues. A pile of dog shit is in front of you, you’d continue to step on it each time you come across one if you

    1) Don’t know it is a pile of dog shit
    2) Aren’t aware it is dog shit cos of decreased concentration/attention/awareness due to fatigue
    3) Aren’t aware of the consequences of stepping on a pile of dog shit

    “You have failed to convince anyone that all mistakes made are attributed in a justifiable manner to fatigue, and you have failed to convince also that there is some other issue here other than your own aversion to hard work and paying your dues.”

    YOU HAVE FAILED TO SAY THAT I HAVE FAILED.

    Thank you and have a good day.

    :)


  317. PA Says:

    Guys, ever heard of Physician Assistants? That’s how the healthcare system in the US takes care of its doctors — by assigning Physician Assistants to do work they are trained for, to assist doctors so that doctors don’t have to work so many hours each day, so that they have time for themselves and loved ones too.

    Hosp Admin and Hosp CEO failed to see that they need to hire Physician Assistants bec

    1. they’re expected salary are not as high as doctors but they can do work that doctors dont need to be doing. And they are licensed to prescribe drugs, not all though.

    2. They are trained in the medical curricular, unlike Nurses, so they are a good fit for doctors to work with. By the way, Nurses do their own thing, they helped out doctors when they can of course but a PA’s job is to solely assist the doctor he/she was assigned to. 1 PA can be assigned to 2 doctors too, if that helps in keeping the healthcare cost low.

    I can’t believe no one in this forum even mentioned PA as a solution for Hosp Admin or Hosp CEO to consider regarding their staff management issues.

    Now, all I wanted to know, is how much do PAs get paid in Singapore. It’s a new profession I believe in Singapore, maybe Singapore has never even hired a PA before! And maybe they should start hiring PAs so that all these poor doctors can do a better job for their patients?

    Read this about the PA profession;

    Link to CNN Money

    And read the comments from PAs who worked in the US, how they have helped doctors and why they go into this profession, besides the good pay compared to nurses.

    Wake up, guys, find a solution… My suggested solution maybe unacceptable to some but at least it is a suggestion.

    So, anyone else have a better solution to this shortage of doctors issues in Singapore? Or do you have a solution for Hosp admin and Hosp CEO to sit down and think — how they can stop making doctors work for so many hours while trying to keep their cost low?


  318. no Says:

    I can’t believe what a total deluded fool this dempsey/to lawyer is. If there was anyone more desperately stupid and thick than she, it’d have to be watered.


  319. tolawyer aka no Says:

    You are just like zillions of deranged fools who enjoy posting endless comments that don’t add any values to the discussion, and simply try to wear others out. Unless you have something new to say, please don’t post/repeat the same thing over and over again.

    Find something better to do.


  320. nerrad Says:

    Hi

    I’m an aspiring medical student. I’d like to humbly ask a question to many of you experienced doctors/public health administrators. Would foreign trained doctors be disadvantaged when it comes to the selection for BST? Thank you.


  321. to noneed Says:

    I don’t think so.

    No one regards or thinks much of local trained anyone, including doctors.


  322. sgdr Says:

    BST??
    You should be talking about medical residency
    No more BST in future!


  323. nerrad Says:

    I know that’s the policy for certain specialties for locally trained doctors ( like doctors would be attached to specialists instead of doing their usual housemanship ), but I don’t think it’s specified if it’s extended to foreign trained doctors.. or have they ? correct me if im wrong :)


  324. starwars8888 Says:

    wow…this forum is indeed very colourful!! hahahaha so many opinions…which is great indeed.

    singapore at this time does not employ PA’s. at least not yet.
    but then, who knows this may change in the future.

    as for average pay for ortho surgeons in pte practise i am not sure.
    all i know that its very variable and we should no talk about pples salaries without actual figures. speculating on salaries will certainly generate a lot of comments which may all be untrue.

    anyhow, i dont think that we should continue with all this name calling etc etc.

    and everyone cussing at each other.

    live and let live.
    if you dont agree with someone elses opinion, fine. just state your points and try to back them up. cursing that person only demeans yourself.

    so lets try to exercise a bit more tact ok?

    after all, this forum is a place for us to air our views.
    there is enough stress to handle on a daily basis already!!

    lets not discuss any further this topic of fatigue and calls etc etc. its here to stay and that fact wont change. OK? some like to do calls, some dont. I for a fact hated calls, and i still hate them!! i can think of a gadzillion things to do at 3 am in the morning rather than be truding around the hospitals.
    eg : sleep, reading, sleep, tv, sleep, out for drinks, sleep, supper, sleep, talking cock with frens, sleep…u get the picture!!

    and the foreign doctors who have joined us from overseas are here to stay. they are now part of the medical fraternity so lets just welcome them with open arms rather than cursing at them as well.

    lets discuss on:

    1. pros and cons of the medical residency? will it benefit the doctors? will there be enough exposure? or will the young doctors be forced to specialise way too early?

    2. can singapore really make it as a medical tourist destination? if so why?..if not why? do we really have what it takes?

    3. is our health care really that good? i think it has been ranked 6th in the world? anyone can check it up and confirm that? what constitutes good health care? just looking at infant mortality rates and MMR?

    4. what does it take to make a good doctor? how is one judged as a good doctor?

    these my friends, are a few of the questions we should be discussing about. okie?

    anyone care to comment on any of the above topics?

    star-was. hahahhaa


  325. Realisticstudent Says:

    well, whatever the case, yes i agree that the talk about over fatigue and all should end.

    BUT it should be noted that fatigue in doctors is a VERY important danger hazard cos it just puts more lives at stake.

    As to whether the new residency programme will prove any benefit, only time will tell.

    However, I, for one, am a little skeptical of it. The programme seems alright so far based on its tenets and principles. However, it’s the people who’s bringing this programme that is questionable. We have already seen in this forum some generation gap among the older and younger newer doctors. We can’t have a new programme with an old mentality.

    Times change and people have to change with the times.


  326. starwars8888 Says:

    i am all for change
    provided that

    1. the younger doctors get the exposure first instead of being forced to decide early whether or not they wish to specialise.

    i regret at times that i did not do enough postings from the outset.
    ie : i never had the chance to do formal ent or eye postings as an MO to really see if i would like ent or eye.

    now with the residency program, i wonder if they are specialising too early?

    dont you think that a bit more exposure would be better?

    starwars


  327. PA Says:

    Thanks, starwars for the reply on PA. That’s what I thought. I hope in future, say 4yrs fr now, they will start into recruiting PAs to help doctors do more important things for patients. Even if they don’t, oh well, there’s alot of PA jobs here in the US but I would love to return to Singapore for good in the next 5yrs or so. *sigh*


  328. MSG Says:

    Hi, i am currently doing my o level and is planning to go into a JC. I had been living in singapore for about 3 years( I am a foreign student). I really want to become a doctor in singapore and the only way i could think of is only by going into a junior college. However, i am still not sure what subject combination should i take for my A level in order to get into the medical school in singapore… I need your suggestions anyway.. Thanks… :D


  329. 2MSG Says:

    triple science and maths. go to the top JCs – raffles or hwa chong.


  330. ITE Says:

    wahlau….now the trend is not to go to JC or even poly la….now trend is to go to ITE and emerge as an entrepreneur! people who go JC and then university are so dead and common…


  331. MSG Says:

    Top JC?? that’s going to be very competitive anyway.. is coming from a Top Jc will really matter to go into the medical school in singapore??? i thought, the only thing that matter is only A LEVEL result….anyway, thanks for the response.. is it true that in order to get into the med school in singapore, all of my subject results for A level should all be in “A”s and must be bloody high??


  332. 2MSG Says:

    if you’re afraid of competition, then don’t be a doctor. to get in, you must at least do well in all your subjects and pass an interview to assess your suitability.


  333. MSG Says:

    thank you so much for the information… It’s really useful.. :D


  334. ITE Says:

    still talking about JC? come on la…i study ITE but sitll earning an average of $15-20k a month now cheyyyy


  335. MSG Says:

    Wow.that’s good! but i dont think that by going into ITE, i will be able to achieve my dreams.. :(


  336. starwars8888 Says:

    do you still need triple science and maths?
    my time yes.
    but i heard that there have since been a lot of changes

    why dont you check up the web site for medical school entry on the NUS web site.

    and now, you can even gain entry doing IB, etc etc.

    there is certainly more than one way to get into medicine.

    but the interview is very important.

    cos by the time the candidates are short listed, all of them are usually top scorers ususally.
    most of the interviewers( my class mates now in NUS) keep reiterating how difficult it is to segregate the applicants.

    so they need to have that added extra.

    ie : they also look at your ECA, your level of participation in other activities, how else you have demonstrated your interest in medicine etc etc.

    starwars


  337. ITE Says:

    MSG: why u wanna be a doctor when u can earn alot more being a businessman


  338. starwars8888 Says:

    who said it has anything to do with money?
    its a very rewarding occupation. at least for me

    starwars


  339. ITE Says:

    rewarding my foot la. everything in this word boils down to $. if u want rewarding occupation, might as well go work in charity org or proverty stricken countries


  340. rr Says:

    how long does the recruitment process for a doctor will take after being interviewd by the hospital?


  341. MSG Says:

    ITE: the only thing that i know is that being a doctor is my dream since i was a kid. I don’t really care about money. I just want to help people and take huge responsibility taking care of people. I don’t want to go into business course just for the sake of earning a lot of money and end up regretting about my dreams.. :D


  342. ITE Says:

    MSG: cool then can u gimme all the money u earn as a doctor and u just work and get satisfaction and realize ur dream? :)


  343. MSG Says:

    ITE: LOL?? I did not say that i don’t need money. I mean that I don’t really care how much money i will earn as long as it’s enough for me to live. BuT anyway, i still have a long way to go to become a doctor.. :)


  344. starwars Says:

    should take a few weeks at least.

    why ? which hospital did you interview at?
    and for what position?

    starwars


  345. Wikiman Says:

    Unless you’re a nobel prize winner or big shot, they’d require you know at 2 languanges. Chinese, malay, or tamil are important for the second language.


  346. PL Says:

    Hmm.. Just spent a good hour reading all the past post (nothing to do on a Sunday night.)

    Re: Realistic Student.

    Aye… Your 12 cases of patients that went to HD and ICU… in my humble opinion… is both your fault and the SN fault.

    First dose antibiotics are not supposed to be given by nurses. It is supposed to be given by Drs due to possibility of anaphylatic reaction. So obviously, you as a student fail to pick up how work processes are carried out in the IP Settings.

    First dose anti diuretics. Did you ever check that the anti diuretics that you ordered are ward stock medication? I highly doubt IV anti diuretics are ward stock medication. If it is not a ward stock, you got to wait for the pharmacy to send up the new drug. By the time the drug comes up, your patient already went into sepsis?

    Again. Ignorance of processes.

    But I felt that the SN in charge should inform you re: this issue. Perhaps the SN was busy, thinking you know the protocol. Perhaps she was just plain lazy.

    Don’t get me wrong. Everybody was new before. I just feel that everybody should not blame one another when things go wrong.

    Just ask oneself. When things go wrong, who is the one that suffers? Apart from the ego bruise that we suffer, the patient is the one that receives the full extent of damage. Everything else is just collateral damage.

    The physician pledge that you took reminded you to “make the health of my (your) patient my (your) first consideration”.

    The nurses pledge that we took reminded us to “provide a competent standard of care for the sick”

    So stop bickering about whose fault is it that resulted in the patient going to ICU/HD.


  347. Realisticstudent Says:

    To PL:

    I didn’t mention anything about first dose. Maybe i didn’t made myself clear. I did gave the first dose of those medications. However, subsequent adminstrations of the medications were not adhered.

    And this is despite me reminding the nurse physically, SMSing the nurse-in-charge, ordering the meds etc and telling her to make sure her colleagues in the next shift know and all.

    Whatever the case, i have done all humanly possible stuff to remind on my part.

    My case has been brought to the nursing department in that hospital, and a warning was served to the nurse in charge of the patient from the top. Speaks pretty much who fault it was isn’t it? We should count ourselves lucky that the patient’s family members did not lodge a complaint against the hospital.


  348. prof Says:

    I think we should not say all these things in public.
    We should support nurses and not reprimand them in public.
    To write all these things in public is simply undermining patient’s trust in Singapore medical system and I hope that admin can delete all sensitive information lest it be used to sue the hospital

    Regards.
    Realisticstudent: u have been warned!


  349. hitechradio Says:

    Hi.
    I am a radiologist from India, completed FRCR(UK) 3 yrs ago and presently working as a faculty in one of the best teaching hospitals.
    Is pay of 8000-9000 (singapore) dollars good enough to live with wife and kid?
    how s the career growth?
    Please reply. i need to decide fast.


  350. medrecruit Says:

    Singapore taxes are low so it is more than enough to live with wife and kid.
    U be able to get a comfortable lifestyle

    If u want more, we can help u negotiate more.
    Pls visit our website at http://www.latitudes-group.com/

    regards
    Recruitment Consultant


  351. starwars8888 Says:

    realistic student :

    what on earth are you doing?
    do you want to get sued? or in trouble with smc? and with the nursing board?
    this is absolute madness discussing such cases on a public domain. and blaming the nurses?

    if anyone on smc finds out who you are, you will be in serious trouble.

    you better delete all your previous posts.

    starwars


  352. not doc Says:

    if realistic-student telling the truth, what is wrong with that? do you mean that such incidents should be covered up even when exposed? how many such incidents were swept under the carpet?

    and do you mean that smc will punish whistle blowers? shouldn’t smc uncover the truth and help rectify things that are not right?


  353. insider Says:

    Pls note that this forum is being monitored closely.
    Appropriate action will be taken soon.
    Regards


  354. observer Says:

    do u know that the whole world is reading your posts? how they feel abt going to singapore for medical treatment. this forum is for folks to ask abt salary in singapore as a doctor. what a joke!

    that being said, maybe i dont want to work in singapore as a doctor plus the salary in singapore fro what i read in this thread, is still so much lower than what doctors get in the US and yet worked so many hours a day as if the doctor doesn’t have a life of his own.

    to top it all, you doctors who are working in singapore and making the rest of the doctors who are not even involved in this discussion look like they are working in the wrong country, be it local or overseas trained.

    you all make all doctors, who have been through so many years of studies and residency time, sound uncivilized, uneducated and acting like morons.

    keep to yourself if you have something to say or opinions, if its not abt doctor’s salary in singapore. spare the space here for those who came to this forum to ask abt salaries!


  355. To Starwar8888 Says:

    This is only a forum where ppls raise their point of view. I have no time to read through what realistic student has posted.

    Why some ppls who do not dare to raise and highlight the truth out is because of ppls like u around that use ‘law’ to threaten. If you only like to hear bias ‘good’ comment, this forum is meanlingless


  356. Realisticstudent Says:

    to prof:

    firstly, there has been no breach in privacy or patient confidentialty in what i’ve written so far here in this tag board. I have not disclosed any patient identifiers nor have i even disclosed which hospital it is in.

    And to everyone who’s “shocked” of the account that i’ve just raised, i’ll just say the following:

    “Welcome to the real world”


  357. Prof Says:

    U still dont get it, do u?
    U have undermined the public confidence in the Singapore public health care system
    I sincerely hope u stop posting such misleading incident that are taken out of context.
    Dont let yr years of training be wasted.

    This is your final warning!


  358. middleclass Says:

    http://www.flayme.com/troll/


  359. public Says:

    dear all,

    I think i will more worry with people like prof in healthcare system. Try to block flow of information, freedom of speech and probably hidding real peoblem of healthcare system from general public. This really undermine confidence of public.


  360. Kevin Says:

    To Public : Washing dirty laundry in public is the one that cause concern to the public ..

    I am not a med person, but worked with enough, and have enough relatives, to know that there is no 100% perfect medical system. Things go wrong and the training and technological and scientific and clinical advances are to reduce, but never can mistakes be eliminated.

    To draw an analogy, if you know the amount of near crashes, in flights, and if pilots were so openly mud-slinging, nobody will ever fly. I have been up front, and from the back, what looks like a normal landing in cross wind landing is near crashes, and more often the pilots will cross themselves after landing in worse weather, and nobody at the back knows, so it is ‘safe’. Now if pilots reveal every ‘near crash’ landing, how would you feel ?

    I am sure SMC has their channels and doctors like RealisticStudent can voice them there, and SMC does not silence such concerns, and, instead will work on resolving. If you know the number of doctors being censured by SMC, you will know what I mean. And meantime, if you know a 100% perfect healthcare system, do let me know .. I am looking for one in this Planet.

    Professionals don’t worry those about other professionals passing judgements. It is the ‘general public’ who are more than often mis-informed, and quick to draw conclusions, who are cause for concern …

    PS: one of my distant relation is a doctor in a hospital in New York, and he was saying that on an average, their is atleast one or two wrong foot being amputated, or wrong breast being removed, and more than enough patients being mis-diagnosed, and more often gun-shot victims bleeding to death when that could be been avoided. But, when we look up to the west, it is all hunky-dory there right ?

    Again – Please don’t wash dirty laundry in public

    [Above is my personal comments, and not a reflection of anybody's policies, and neither am I siding anybody, or connected to any authority]


  361. Kevin Says:

    Realistic Student: not stepping on your toes, but do you always have this ‘holier than though’ attitude ?


  362. Prof Says:

    Kevin is absolutely right
    I suspect realistic student is a troll who is trying to bait doctors to attack him/her and gain sympathy.
    Sorry I was too worked up and fell for his/her trap.
    Let’s focus on the forum topic which is salaries of doctors in Singapore.
    As a general rule, our pay here may be lower but taxes are low too so it is definitely attractive to relocate to Singapore.


  363. poordoc Says:

    I like to work in Singapore as I find it worth progressing a career.
    The reason is that SG treats people more or less equally depending upon meritocracy.Of course, a country will favour its own nationals first, that’s nature.
    On the other hand,not all the men are the same, there still is some component of SG nationals who look ill to foreigner forgetting that all are just drops in an ocean.
    Regarding salary in SG, it’s lucrative in the sense that the tax systems are good and the quality of life
    is international-standard.Of course, SG being the best safety place in Asia is a big plus to all.


  364. poorcitizen Says:

    >a country will favour its own nationals first, that’s nature.

    unfortunately, it’s not true in Singapore. on the whole, foreigners and permanent residents get more and better benefits than citizens.

    you should come and take advantage of the lax immigration policies before the authorities change their mind to please citizens (election is coming).


  365. Realisticstudent Says:

    to kevin:

    where is the “holier than thou” attitude in the words i write? In case you have overlooked due to your overwhelmed emotion, what i have written is just what i have experienced serving in the healthcare sector for awhile. You yourself have also concurred with my findings in the earlier post you wrote.

    The fact is this. There are things which are unseen, unheard, and swept under the carpet. Errors are made daily, which aren’t reported as they aren’t major enough to make it into the headlines, nor are they serious enough to get the annual auditor’s attention.

    I cited those examples as to what are some of the current fallacies in the current healthcare system locally, and what can be improved. Yet some here, by virtue of their seniority, choose for old ways to persist hoping that the errors in the old system will fade away itself.

    I’m dumbfounded. How are medical errors going to be reduced when the same risk factors predisposing them are still present? (i.e, tired doctors, long hours/calls etc)

    Secondly, it is not just doctors who need change. But the whole healthcare and allied health sectors which need a change. recently, i’m sure you have read the KK hospital incident where the pharmacist programmed the infusion pump for a patient’s chemotherapy regime properly resulting in a few days dosage given all in 3 hours. This just shows that ancillary healthcare staff, nurses, whatever and whomever, needs to upgrade, to progress etc.

    My example was just to illustrate that nurses have to be more responsible in their job, and more training should be done so that they can function properly and not endanger our patients’ lives just like how the near misses occurred in my scenario.

    It’s really no use hiring more foreign doctors when the root of problems aren’t nipped in the butt isn’t it?


  366. bystander Says:

    r-student, i’m on your side. people like mohh and prof and even starwars are a shame of the healthcare community. who are these old farts to ask people to shut up? because they’re old or because they are senior? or because they practise “asian values”, or because our political leaders set a bad example for them to shut people up?

    r-student, just remember not to do the same when you become a senior practitioner yourself.


  367. public Says:

    R-S, i am on your side too. People, let face the real world and the new generation.


  368. Kevin Says:

    Realistic Student: I feel you just doing a troll, as if the Medical Professionals need serious re-training ..

    My main concern was your serious intention to wash dirty laundry in public, or venting your views on a public forum, where, while it may evoke discussion, has the higher probability of questioning the integrity of your profession.

    And, the more louder you complain, atleast in my eyes, it shows that you are an attention seeker, or feel you know so much that you can pass judgement on others, including ‘nurses who need re-training’ – to quote your words.

    Instead of just bleating that the medical system is in need of serious changes, and that you know so much, as a student, so much so that people with years of hard earned experience are being questioned by your superious knowledge, why don’t you do something ? Write a whitepaper, and seek assistance from Doctors and others, and circulate it and work on it ? Maybe you will get an award or something that will fulfill you ego.

    Just tell me something: Have you ever killed a patient ? Or are you the re-incarnation of God himself, that you shall never commit a folly ?

    You can ask the forum admins to remove my comments, but I still stand by my view that – you are hell bent on washing dirty laundry in public, and you are somebody who will always have the last word in any discussions.

    PS: There is a saying, ‘take care of the nurses and be nice to them, because they are the ones who stop doctors from killing you’


  369. middleclass Says:

    Kevin: i think there’s enough shame to go all around.
    While i see that there are some genuine passionate posts that crossed the lines probably because the authors are vending their real frustrations at work.
    However there are also a few internet trolls that just post asinine, insulting and threatening nonsense.
    You can tell by imagining that all these conversations took place in a room and place the group of adults having a good discussion and the screaming imbeciles in the corner.
    Hearing what’s being said but also listening to how it’s being said.
    Internet trolls enjoy bringing everyone to their level because they are unable to think and converse as mature adults would.
    End of the day no matter how clever or successful they think they are with their lies and deceptions.
    They still have to look at themselves in the mirrors everyday and wonder what the heck went wrong in their lives.
    They may think in their twisted little world that they can fool everyone but ultimately they cannot fool themselves and their own pathetic lives.
    Lastly I can only ask that the adults write as if they are speaking face to face to the real person in the conversation.
    When we can all do that the trolls will be exposed and have no other choice but to go away.


  370. Realisticstudent Says:

    To Kevin:

    Like i’ve already said. My intention was pretty clear, to point out that there are flaws in the current system, which should be remediated first before any talk of other progress.

    What dirty linen is there to wash in public, or any intention to spike malice within the medical fraternity if what i said is a true event? You yourself have cited incidents in the states where medical errors have happened and i similarly mentioned mine just a little earlier. You on the other hand, seem to have some hidden agenda of covering truth and seem to have failed to understand the crux of this issue.

    There is a current trend in singapore where the public blames doctors for every single god damn error which happens to them, without even considering the fact that the healthcare system does not consists of doctors alone. I have pointed, with my own similar experience, and the chemo incident at KK that EVERYONE in the healthcare sector need to work together, to progress together so as to further the cause of providing better patient care. Nurses, allied health doctors, pharmacists. Any weak link in the chain is going to cost morbidity and mortality to the lives of our patients and that is what i’m pointing out. EVERYONE needs re-training and continuing medical education. Not just doctors or professionals. I have pointed out that our ancillarly staff in the healthcare system has not meet world standards yet as such a things like failure to adhere to drug administration can still occur.

    Lastly, i would surmise that you seem more like the troll in your comments instead of myself.

    Also, your “solution” of writing a whitepaper is a no-brainer. Ppl like myself are ordinary citizens. Try tabling something to the ministry and see the amount of red tape you have to cross before your lines on a piece of paper ever get across to the top person. If you’d like to suggest something, pls do with something which is achievable yourself, instead of shoving the impossible to another person.


  371. Michael Says:

    RSL forget it .. you do sound like the thousands of ‘new age’ kids who believe the world must change, and they know more than others.

    You can hang yourself, for suggesting I have a hidden agenda. I am not a doctor, nor am I even distantly connection the health system here, nor do I get paid anybody to counter your ‘valuable’ and ‘intelligent’ stuff. Get a grip man.

    I am here, because of my own interest, and find out one post where I threatened you or anybody, or threw my weight around, unlike your silly harping.

    As for you accusing me of washing american laundry .. well, can I quote the medical system in .. say, Timbuktu, to make you happy ?

    And for your countering that red tape will shut your opinion out, that is called GOvernannce. Maybe you should become a member of Junior Chamber, or Rotary Club, and learn the democratic way of making change, not your arrogant two headed accusations, and repeated justification of inducing fear on the medical system here.

    There are systems in place, and you have to work your way in. Seniors and experienced people exist in any industry, and they are not anti-change, unlike a couple of decades ago. And a young horn like you claim to know better than people who have worked their heart and soul.

    Just tell me one thing: have you ever had a patient die under your watch ? If you did, did you feel apathy or sympathy ? Or maybe you the God’s gift to the world, to be totally flawless.

    PS: don’t bother to reply. You are getting boring and senseless with your stubborn attitude.


  372. Michael Says:

    Oh, I forgot, let me remind you. It is because of doctors with the ‘holier than though’ attitude that the public is getting scared and accusing the system of having failed.

    You must applaude the MOH here for publicly revealing the censured doctors, instead of ‘see no evil’ attitude in most other Asian countries, and doctors are assumed to be flawless and it is the fault of God or just say that the dead persons’ time was up


  373. prof Says:

    Well said Michael
    I must admit to not screening medical school applicants properly resulting in students like RSL sprouting nonsense in this forum instead of studying hard like what the result of medical students are doing.

    There is no perfect system and I do hope the public will not lose the trust in our excellent medical system and foreign drs will join us to serve the people of Singapore.


  374. Enough of senseless censuring Says:

    @Realisticstudent

    Thanks for bringing up this issue. I think you have driven the point across to many many ppl who have been on this site. It takes courage to do so, and I applaud you. Just know that for every prof and starwars here, there are plenty of ppl like me who support your cause and quietly hoping for some changes that will further improve what is already a good medical system.

    Kudos to the admin for not senselessly censuring comments just because ppl like prof and starwars put up inane requests. I always enjoy an open discussion and absolutely abhor the exact attitude displayed by these ppl.


  375. poordoc Says:

    East and West will never have the same values with regard to relationships like doctor-patient, student-teacher, and boss -employee.People born in East including me would be rather meek than those form West.So things like Do-what-I -say attitute may be ramphant,but on the other hand,the respect to seniors in every profession especially in medicine ( mind you there’s Hippocratic Oath stating that “I would regard those who teach me medicine as my parents “) is a matter of life saving .Honestly, I love it.

    People may know in most of the modern developed world, there are events where no one would touch to help a car accident victim unless the poor victimised had the evidence of health insurance.
    While in East countries, this is less likely.

    I am just pointing out some differences , with my 2 cent knowledge , among health care between East and West.

    I fully agree the comments that there is no 100% perfect health care system on earth.That said, one shall remember a famous quotation by the late American President John F Kennedy ( the West President ) that ” Ask not what your country can do for you,but what you can do for your country “.We shall go hand-in-hand with other medical fraternity for the better health care in a certain country while not blaming every single pitfall.

    I am aware and convinced that not a single real medical professional would have intention to harm intentionally or for whatever reason alike.Those outside the circle will pay for thier deed.

    I am not advocating anybody or any organization here, but being a medical doctor born in a resource constraint country, I am more than aware of the situations stated in the former comments, but I am still looking from the bright side.Otherwise, those doctors like me would be feeling like ” If it rained porridge,I wouldn’t have a bowl!”.


  376. Realisticstudent Says:

    To Michael:

    Tell me what accusations have i made. Stubborn attitude? I think such comments suit more for people like yourself.

    While i take value in the experience of senior doctors, i think there are flaws in their views too. Ppl like you blindlessly think that old, senior equates to good, and that is where you are wrong. Such is your one-sidedness which shows in your arguments (if there is any in what you write.)

    The democratic way of making change is not something is achievable by everyone. If not, EVERYONE along the street would make it into parliament.

    P.S: I hope you can shut your bulltrap instead of making senseless comments. To hell with your accusations of others being holier than thou when you are being so yourself. Walk the talk, instead of running your mouth, dude.


  377. Realisticstudent Says:

    To prof:

    i don’t think i’ve said anything which is of nonsense. My examples were quoted from fact, and it is YOU who seemed to be ill-informed that medical errors are made when healthcare staff are overworked. Go do a search on pubmed and see how many studies have concurred on such findings and you’ll see for yourself that i’m not lying.


  378. wi Says:

    Realisticstudent – i agree with you about the mental fatigue (i have experienced it regularly, myself being a clinician in this nation for over 10 years) and i am sure there are many who think so too, including docs in this forum.

    it certainly does not need a genius to figure out that working while mentally exhausted affects our judgement and therefore compromises the safety of our patients. period.
    those who do not think so should really go for a psychiatric evaluation.
    just attend a surgical morbidity/mortality audit round…it’ll open most people’s eyes to the public healthcare system. but, to put this issue in a different perspective (even though this is no consolation to patients whatsoever), this happens too in uk, where i have worked.

    however, i feel whatever we write here will not change the situation in the near future (which is why i will not comment after this post) and there will always be resistance by people to make fundamental changes to a flawed system that they themselves are a product of. an uphill battle for you but i do wish you all the best. as for me, i have already given up.


  379. antirs Says:

    I am not a dr but the way u talk u sound like u know it all.
    Be respectful to yr seniors and maybe one day u rise up and effect change
    Yr rudness and arrogence will get u nowhere!


  380. respect Says:

    respect is earned. it is passe to blindly respect your seniors or leaders. you don’t stand up for your right, you’ll only suffer in silence if the so called seniors are incapable and selfish, or worse, evil. hitler was also well respected, but see what great atrocities he created. extreme examples aside, before you talked about rudeness and arrogance of juniors, you should also see how rude and arrogant the seniors in this forum are. they set truly bad examples.


  381. antirs Says:

    Dear respect,
    Are u rs clone?
    Look at all the posts rs made, u think he/she is respecting nurses, his seniors or even other forumers.

    Maybe RS should look himself/herself in the mirror and reflect on his/her behaviour in the forum.
    Even Dempsey already appologise for her rude and misleading remarks!


  382. masada Says:

    for doctors who are interested in working in australia, u must read this link

    http://www.ochrerecruitment.com.au/...

    NO Australian medical council exams is needed if you have obtained your primary qualification in New zealand/US/ UK

    ) Doctors with Masters of Family Medicine from the
    National University of Singapore are eligible to apply to
    sit the FRACGP without the required minimum of 12 months of
    GP experience from Australia. To enter this program,
    you must first register an expression of interest ro receive
    an application from. Once you have passed the initial
    screening by submitting all your documents with the application form, the RACGP will contact you forr afitness of intended practice post’ interview.
    The purpose of this interview is to assess your fitness topractice in your intended post. the interview:

    > > will take up to 2 hours
    > > will be conducted face to face in Australia
    > > panel will have 3 members who will ask you to review a
    > > number of patient scenarios and respond to questions
    > > fee is $AUD !,500 (GST free). In the case of
    > > cancellation a withdrawal fee will apply
    > > is a prerequisite to enrolling into the RACGP
    > > College Examination and the Certificate of General Practice

    paywise – it is well known that some country hospitals do pay GPs up to A$1500 (new south wales rate) to A$1800 (in Queensland) for GPs who run the local district hospital emergency departments (working hours from 0800-1800 hrs – will pay for call backs of up to A$90 per hour – minimum 2 hour call backs)


  383. masada Says:

    RACGP Specialist Pathway – Good news for IMGs who want to work in Australia
    The Royal Australian College of General Practitioners has announced that from Monday 1 February 2010 the college will formally take enrolments for the RACGP Specialist Pathway. The RACGP Specialist Pathway is a new assessment process for doctors who do not have current Australian medical registration but have recognised general practice qualifications from overseas. The new program provides a pathway for international medical graduates (IMGs) to obtain RACGP Fellowship, taking into consideration their previous training in general practice. The RACGP is now accepting eligible applications for the Specialist Pathway from the following three categories: Fully Comparable Doctors (Category 1) and Partially Comparable Doctors (Categories 2 and 3).
    Eligibility criteria for the categories can be obtained form the RACGP website at http://www.racgp.org.au/overseastra...
    An overview of the RACGP Specialist Pathway and a frequently asked questions fact sheet are available from this site. For specific questions please contact 1800 626 901 or [email protected]


  384. Issues for foreign doctors to think about Says:

    Wow, I only just caught up with this forum. Firstly, I think that this should be a discussion forum and aggression, name-calling etc has no place.

    There is a lot of truth in all that slave of medicine and dempsey said about working conditions for the junior doctors in Singapore. Kudos to them for speaking up. And yes, sleep deprivation has link to impaired concentration, no one can credibly dispute that.

    Singapore has been on a recruitment drive to recruit foreign doctors for an extremely long time, yet they are still very short of doctors, especially doctors they are hoping to target (who received their medical education from first world countries). When something is such a hard sell, you have to wonder why. You don’t see Cambridge or Oxford going overseas on recruitment drives, do you?

    Actually, I think the issue here is not the salary. The overall take home salary (ie, after taxes) are comparable to what a junior doctor (HO, MO, registrar) with similar experience would earn in Australia. But, a junior doctor in Australia works much less hours, and when you break down to hourly pay, the doctors in Singapore earn much less. Besides, essentials like houses and cars are far cheaper in Australia so your standard of living is much much better than in Singapore.

    I think the issue is about working conditions and respect. The vast majority of the junior doctors working in Singapore are Singapore graduates bonded to the system (because of their NUS study bond). Like it or not, they have to stay because most of them cannot afford the very large sum they have to pay back to break the bond. When one is bonded, they lose bargaining power. Like it or not, they have to accept whatever conditions get imposed to them. And also because of the fact that they are paid by the month not by the hour, they are forced to put in a lot of extra hours. I know hospitals which have daily meetings that start at 7am and MO’s have to attend. And for MO’s to have to come back alone every Sunday for routine ward rounds, that’s totally uncalled for, I think. I remember a posting I did where I did not get a single day off for 2 months. Yup, I worked 60days in a row. As someone said, even maids get a compuslory day off.

    And since these are the set working conditions in Singapore, the foreign grads also have to work under the same conditions.

    I think if the seniors make us feel appreciated and try to acknowledge the hardship that the juniors go through, it does go a long way. Rather than think “I’ve been through it so you must go through it too”. It may not actually change the conditions, but it makes us feel better about it. Many people are not driven by money, but by job satisfaction.

    In terms of trainee positions, I can’t say there is a bias against foreign grads. However, if no one knows you, you’re less likely to be selected for a job than another doctor who have worked here and is known to the seniors. It’s human nature. Even if you are on the selection panel, you’re more likely to pick someone you know, than someone you don’t know isn’t it?

    For foreign grads who come back to Singapore, there are also hurdles like the fact that you have to form new friendship, you don’t have anyone to advise you re which postings not to choose, what to look out for etc, because you don’t know anyone.

    There is another issue – the SMC. Even though they state on their website that Singaporeans who are foreign grads can apply for full registration after two years, in reality there are a lot of people who, for no apparent good reason, are not given their full registration after two years (MO’s whose performance have been consistently graded good, never made any clinical mistakes, never had complaints made against them!)… and the first indicator of a “poor” performance was when full registration is rejected after two years. The best thing is, they don’t give you a reason why full registration is rejected! Your SMC assessment reports are not shared with you. It is likely a ploy to keep foreign grads trapped in the public system, because the foreign grads have no study bond. So foreign grad Singaporeans, be very aware! You may want to rethink your decision to come back if you think you can get full registration after two years! The actual fact is that you’re likely to be trapped in stifling working conditions for longer than you think!

    The bottom line is, if you graduated from a first world country like UK, Australia, USA, you’re really MUCH better off staying put, because the working conditions and living conditions, quality of life (for yourself and your family) are far better in these countries. I can’t say the same for doctors who currently come from the third world countries, because living conditions are better in Singapore compared to those third world countries and they do stand to gain by coming to Singapore.

    Just my opinion, of course!


  385. Issues for foreign doctors to think about Says:

    As for foreign consultants who want to work in Singapore, the reality is that your hands will be severely tied with the conditional registration – which stipulates where you can work, how many hours you must work etc. You can forget about flexibility or locum work. You have to start all over again, and if you really think about it, you’re probably better off spending those few years building your career in where you are right now, and starting over.

    As for junior doctors who are thinking of working in Singapore, just know that many many foreign grads have come back to work in Singapore, then left again when they realised what they really got themselves into. If someone borrowed money from loansharks and are now subjected to their harrassments, why should you come along and be subjected to the same harrassment? Totally unnecessary.


  386. prof Says:

    What a whole lot of bullshit!

    The only reason why junior doctors have to work long hours is because there is not enough junior doctors around.
    Will discouraging foreign graduates to come to Singapore help or worsen the manpower shortage?

    SMC is transparant and your accusation against them is unfounded. I hope you retract your accusation or action will be taken against you.
    I am still considering whether to lodge a formal complaint against you with SMC.

    Isnt it obvious why you are not granted full registration if you continue to sprout nonsense in this forum?

    Most foreign graduates under me are hardworking and they have moved on to become specialists. 50% of specialists in Singapore are foreigners and which other countries practice meritocracy like Singapore?

    U are entitled to your opinion but pls exercise responsibility in your posting or actions will be taken against you.


  387. admin Says:

    Dear “prof”, may I know specifically what action will be taken, against who, and for what reason?

    And can you please stop using expletives?

    As the admin of this site, I do not mind heated comments posted here, but I just do not like the idea of someone issuing threats.

    I’m not sure if you are a real Prof or Doctor, but if you are, do you also use expletives and threats at work or at home? This behaviour is very unbecoming of a doctor.

    For now, I’ll just assume you’re a troll.

    Also, refer to my exchange with hospadmin, whom I think have some things in common with you, if you know what I mean.


  388. prof Says:

    Dear admin,
    You have allowed someone to defame Singapore Medical Council and undermine the Singapore Medical System.
    I do hope that you consult your lawyer soon. It is pointless to argue with people who dont see the point.

    Regards

    http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_vers...

    Unintentional defamation.
    7. —(1) A person who has published words alleged to be defamatory of another person may, if he claims that the words were published by him innocently in relation to that other person, make an offer of amends under this section; and in any such case —

    (a) if the offer is accepted by the party aggrieved and is duly performed, no proceedings for libel or slander shall be taken or continued by that party against the person making the offer in respect of the publication in question (but without prejudice to any cause of action against any other person jointly responsible for that publication);

    (b) if the offer is not accepted by the party aggrieved, then, except as otherwise provided by this section, it shall be a defence, in any proceedings by him for libel or slander against the person making the offer in respect of the publication in question, to prove that the words complained of were published by the defendant or were published by the defendant innocently in relation to the plaintiff and that the offer was made as soon as practicable after the defendant received notice that they were or might be defamatory of the plaintiff, and has not been withdrawn.

    (2) An offer of amends under this section must be expressed to be made for the purposes of this section, and must be accompanied by an affidavit specifying the facts relied upon by the person making it to show that the words in question were published by him innocently in relation to the party aggrieved; and for the purposes of a defence under subsection (1) (b) no evidence, other than evidence of facts specified in the affidavit, shall be admissible on behalf of that person to prove that the words were so published.

    (3) An offer of amends under this section shall be understood to mean an offer —

    (a) in any case, to publish or join in the publication of a suitable correction of the words complained of, and a sufficient apology to the party aggrieved in respect of those words;

    (b) where copies of a document or record containing the said words have been distributed by or with the knowledge of the person making the offer, to take such steps as are reasonably practicable on his part for notifying persons to whom copies have been so distributed that the words are alleged to be defamatory of the party aggrieved.

    (4) Where an offer of amends under this section is accepted by the party aggrieved —

    (a) any question as to the steps to be taken in fulfilment of the offer as so accepted shall in default of agreement between the parties be referred to and determined by the High Court, whose decision shall be final;

    (b) the power of the court to make orders as to costs in proceedings by the party aggrieved against the person making the offer in respect of the publication in question, or in proceedings in respect of the offer under paragraph (a), shall include power to order the payment by the person making the offer to the party aggrieved of costs on an indemnity basis and any expenses reasonably incurred or to be incurred by that party in consequence of the publication in question;

    and if no such proceedings as aforesaid are taken, the High Court may, upon application made by the party aggrieved, make any such order for the payment of such costs and expenses as aforesaid as could be made in such proceedings.

    (5) For the purposes of this section, words shall be treated as published by one person (referred to in this subsection as the publisher) innocently in relation to another person if and only if the following conditions are satisfied:

    (a) that the publisher did not intend to publish them of and concerning that other person, and did not know of circumstances by virtue of which they might be understood to refer to him; or

    (b) that the words were not defamatory on the face of them, and the publisher did not know of circumstances by virtue of which they might be understood to be defamatory of that other person;

    and in either case that the publisher exercised all reasonable care in relation to the publication; and any reference in this subsection to the publisher shall be construed as including a reference to any servant or agent of his who was concerned with the contents of the publication.

    (6) Subsection (1) (b) shall not apply in relation to the publication by any person of words of which he is not the author unless he proves that the words were written by the author without malice.


  389. admin Says:

    If you are not a troll, send me an email by clicking on the “Contact Us” link at the bottom of the page. I’ll respond to you.


  390. Issues for foreign doctors to think about Says:

    There were no statements in my posts which were made in a definitive sense, they are merely my own opinions based on my own observations, be it opinions about SMC, about the working conditions, or the foreign grads who have come and left. Of course, I could very well be very wrong!

    However, I trust that readers of this forum are intelligent, educated people and will do their own careful research before coming to their own conclusions. They will not blindly believe what is written by one person, and by no means be swayed by my opinions if their research proves otherwise. Different opinions are ingredients for a stimulating discussion, it helps to develop lateral thinking, and should be encouraged if Singapore is to advance and prosper, right? Cheers!


  391. Vote for SGP instead of SIN for Singapore Says:

    this is getting hilarious…


  392. Vote for SGP instead of SIN for Singapore Says:

    no… more like ridiculous.

    aren’t we moving into the era of ‘freedom of speech’?
    as long as the comments are not racist nor pointed at anyone in particular, it’s perfectly legal (read recent case of facebook racist comments? that’s different story.)

    this Prof guy, for all we know, doesn’t even use real name as is seemingly a troll, as he doesn’t even know what to do before giving out threats about whatever ‘actions’ that may be taken nor the guts to tell who he actually is.

    It is simply for the reason of giving reasonable opinions that ANY forums exist.

    If Prof is really a medical Prof, I feel sad for my friends in medical school here though. Seriously saddened.

    It’s not hilarious, but rather ridiculous


  393. doctor Says:

    Hi,

    I am currently working in Malaysia. I have 7 years experience in clinical setting (including HO training ). I got my MRCP(UK) and M.Med(S’pore). Can I join AST(cardiology) in SIngapore ? and how long it takes to become a consultant ?

    What is my post now if I work in Singapore with the above degrees ?

    Thank you in advance


  394. mohh Says:

    Hi doctor
    We thank you for your interest in coming to work in Singapore as an AST Cardiology and would like to invite you to KL.

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/ma...

    Date: 27 Feb 4pm
    Venue: Meeting Room 401
    Kuala Lumpur Convention Centre
    Kuala Lumpur City Centre
    50088 Kuala Lumpur

    There will be opportunities available for interviews during our visits.

    Interested applicants are encouraged to submit their applications via email to: [email protected] with:

    full personal particulars/CVs
    contact number/email address (important)
    educational and professional qualifications
    career history
    present & expected salary and
    name of 2 professional referees


  395. Kevin Says:

    Issues on foreign doctor, and vote for sgp ..

    I think the prof’s threats were directed at somebody else ..

    take time, and read through ..


  396. depends Says:

    There is no such thing as freedom of speech in Singapore. Not even in the US, as Americans are very litigious. And most definitely not in Singapore, where the government doesn’t subscribe to the notion in the manner that the US constitution believes, and where Singaporeans are becoming increasingly litigious, based of what my lawyer friends tell me.

    And listen up in your business law classes please. Framing your words as your personal opinion ‘only’ does not protect you from litigation of libel, defamation or prosecution from sedition anywhere in the world.

    This is the most common myth held by normally unschooled and childish people.

    I recall a fat female blogger here who was threatened with a lawsuit, xiasuay, also believed in the same myth and tried to defame her victim the second time by repeatedly ending her words with “just my opinion”. LOL. Very comical and low-class.


  397. depends Says:

    Litigation is not a means and should not be seen as an obstruction to human rights pursuits, IF you’re smart enough to have big picture view.

    Just as you think, THINK being the operative word, that you have the ‘right’ to say what you wish (you don’t), the rest of society has the right to defend their reputation if anyone else feels that what has been said about him/her/anything is untrue and has affected his reputation.

    The constitution is not meant to uphold any one person, but tries its best to serve the greater good of the whole society.


  398. kadima Says:

    to all doctors here who are interested to practice in australia please see this link

    http://www.amc.org.au/index.php/img

    doctors who have received their basic degree from the UK/Ireland need NOT take the Australian Medical Council exams

    AMC exams are held in Singapore too! NUS grads do score very well in AMC exams and are very highly regarded in Australian medical circles.


  399. Oh dear Says:

    Oh dear. I hope that the statements/threats made by hospadmin/Prof (whom we now know is the same person) are that of his own, and are not made in the capacity of a representative of MOHH.

    His behaviour not only fails to inspire any confidence, it generates fear and hesitation in anyone who is thinking of working in Singapore.

    If his director in MOHH finds out about this, he will probably be subject to disciplinary action himself.


  400. voiceoftruth Says:

    kadima, who are you kidding?

    If NUS grads are so regarded like you claim, that you even added a “very” (LOL), why aren’t they exempt from the AMC exams like British grads?!

    I’ve had local grads of the professional courses who say that they totally disregard their alma maters when it comes to accreditation of machines that they use in their trade. They purchase the machines directly from overseas supplies and overseas universities (in UK, Europe and US), and apply for accreditation to the overseas universities.

    When I asked them why don’t they ever consult or consult their alma mater, they said that the people staffing and studying in their alma mater do not have an idea about what’s going on in the industry and are utterly backwards, and that its only after graduating that they learnt that all they were taught were quote “old stuff that are completely out of date” unquote.

    It was then that I understood why local universities are so hopeless in R&D and achieved nothing in that front.


  401. kadima Says:

    Doctors who can pass the MRCP exams/MBBS exams recently will have no difficulties passing the AMC exams. There was this report which showed that NUS grads do have a high pass rate when they are attempting the AMC exams.

    south african/european grads have to sit for the AMC exams too

    to doctors who are interested in sitting for the Australian Medical Council exams which are held regularlyl in Singapore:

    AMC launches support for exam candidates
    The Australian Medical Council (AMC) has launched some new initiatives to support International Medical Graduates (IMGs) preparing for Australia’s medical screening exam. The AMC Handbook of Multiple Choice Questions (MCQs) is a major publication designed to assist IMGs prepare for the AMC’s MCQ examination. It contains almost 600 multiple choice questions drawn from the AMC examination banks. The handbook covers all disciplines and clinical categories and contains a complete multidisciplinary 150 question MCQ paper. To purchase the book, go to https://store.amc.org.au
    The AMC has also launched a new online trial examination, which provides prospective MCQ candidates with a responsive and up-to-date exam experience. The new examination links to the AMC Handbook of MCQs and contains 50 questions in the format of the AMC MCQ. For more information on the exam, go to http://www.amc.org.au/index.php/img...


  402. eretz Says:

    Australia: English test for migration revamp to favour doctors, nurses and teachers

    for doctors/nurses/teachers

    http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/0...


  403. regarded Says:

    Having a high pass rate doesn’t justify “very regarded”.

    Very regarded means people see you so up, no need to take the test, just like how graduates of British and Irish medical colleges are exempted. That is “very regarded”.

    High pass rates just means most of the grads can pass the test. This is just simple logic.


  404. regarded Says:

    And if you need to compare South Africa to save the day, we know that the situation is very bad. Europe also consists of developing countries like Russia and other Eastern/Southern european states (Slovakia, Czech) that aren’t exactly what people consider to be first-world.


  405. Pieces Says:

    Hi all, I am new to this website but spent the last 2.5 hours reading most of the comments. Very informative and relished going through some of the more heated debates.

    Anyway, my agenda are really to find out the salary and working conditions of an ophthalmic registrar (service or AST) in Singapore. I have been asked for my salary expectation by the NUH.

    I am a second year registrar in ophthalmology in the UK and planned to returned to South East Asia for personally reasons. My salary after conversion is circa S$10K pcm before tax. (Could have been more but the British pound has plummeted thanks to the #*@%# bankers….)

    I’ll be grateful for any insights.


  406. juniordoc Says:

    Hi there,
    I am a foreign medical graduate now on my way to finish my MRCP (PACES).
    As I am interestedd in working here,I’d be grateful if someone in this forum could kindly share the information on if I shall have a chance to get into a specialty training.
    And my next bubble is the possible salary scale for a newcomer like me.


  407. hi Says:

    to pieces
    Hospadmin posted this in the past

    HO pay 2600
    MO pay 3500
    Reg pay 6000

    So u can quote this loh


  408. kevinchu Says:

    The HO pay of 2600 is before on call and housing allowances or after?
    Is it the average salary of housemen in both Nhg and Singhealth?

    Im a foreign medical graduate and curious :)


  409. sgnurse Says:

    Hi dr,
    HO pay of $2,600 is before on call and housing allowance.
    Now it is under MOHH.
    U single or moving with family?


  410. kevinchu Says:

    I’m single. Will there be lesser allowances for me?


  411. sgnurse Says:

    Oh single is good
    u can email me at [email protected].
    I can tell u more.


  412. kevinchu Says:

    Btw, are the allowances for oncall 240 for HOs as well? And how many calls are there in average in a month?
    What are the housing allowances like? I read somewhere that it’s around 700. Is it true?


  413. kevinchu Says:

    Hmm. Sgnurse. My email client says that ur email doesnt exist.


  414. anilbn Says:

    hi all,

    I would like to consider the option of doing my medical postgraduation in singapore..i have mbbs degree from AFMC, which is recognised by singapore..i request kind information in this regard as to what is the procedure to get into post graduation residency in singapore..i am interested to specialise in paediatrics..also is there fees for this or any scholarships are available?…


  415. anilbn Says:

    hi all,

    I would like to consider the option of doing my medical postgraduation in singapore..i have mbbs degree from AFMC, which is recognised by singapore..i request kind information in this regard as to what is the procedure to get into post graduation residency in singapore..i am interested to specialise in paediatrics..also is there fees for this or any scholarships are available?…


  416. juniordoc Says:

    Hi there,
    Could someone kindly share an information about the specialist training opportunities for a foreign medical graduate after joining the public service there.If so,shall I know the timeframe into training pool from the start of a clinical service?
    Next thing is that, being aware of a new medical education system in S’pore like residency, is it only meant for the locals? Can the foreign doctors have a chance to join that somehow?
    When it comes to matter of salary,can a person with family decently earn a living while on the way to training?

    I believe S’pore is the best place in Asia for foreign medical grads who would be treated equally with regards to merit.


  417. mohh Says:

    Hi all
    We thank you for your interest in working in Singapore
    Come to our website to find out more about working life in Singapore.

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/in...


  418. anilbn Says:

    are foreign medical graduates eligible for the residency program? like me from India with medical degree from a college recognised in singapore…what is the procedure ?


  419. sgdr Says:

    Yes lah
    Singapore believes in meritocracy.
    All junior doctors are eligible to apply residency.
    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/re...
    This year program close already, need to wait next year.
    Also have old system but it is last year already
    Anyway, welcome to Singapore.
    I think u send email to ask MOHH better


  420. observer Says:

    note that mohh and hospadmin are likely the same person, and the latter have promised not to participate in this forum and not to advertise here after having a spat with people who have different views. just read through the comments above, especially those from hospadmin, prof and starwars.

    if you come to work here, expect to face more of these people, in real life.


  421. juniordr Says:

    Come to think of it,
    mohh=hospadmin=prof=starwars

    These administrators are a disgrace to Singapore so stop advertising for foreign drs to work in Singapore.
    It is already so competitive in Singapore and we should protect our medical care system from cheap labour elsewhere.
    Allowing medisave to be used overseas will depress the salaries of private specialists and deter public specialists from leaving.

    This means less specialist jobs for junior doctors in future and I can bet that pay will stagnate like the GPs.

    This is bad for Singapore doctors so we should petition the health minister to stop recruiting foreign doctors!


  422. whattodo Says:

    what to do? even our health minister is foreign born. just shut up and bear with it. or emigrate and be a foreign talent elsewhere. this country is hopeless. citizens are second class. foreigners are first class. uniquely singapore. thanks to our genius leaders. vote wisely.


  423. laughing doc Says:

    thinking about emigrations?
    US president is of a Black origin..
    UK Royal Family is a cluster of the descendents from Germans.
    What More?? Browse on web…
    So it’s no point to think about the ethnic,religion,origin or where-abouts of a person on earth as the world is now a Global Village.
    People migrate for the better place and job for a decent living as far as the professionals are concerned.
    One should aware that every professional immigrant in SG is contributing the country’s income and wellbeing ,while they are content with the salary earned.This is by no means called “Cheap Labour”.
    Do not ever belittle them!Otherwise emigrants from the island state to the western countries shall face the same chaper in their life story!!!


  424. AAA Says:

    doctor’s life is tough. but need to bear with it


  425. sgnurse Says:

    doc life tough but make so much money
    we nurse work equally hard but pay is low!
    Life’s not fair, must quickly grab one doctor to be husband then life will improve and can go holiday with him!


  426. howto Says:

    how to go holiday when both are so busy?


  427. whatajoke Says:

    laughing dr wrote in 423:One should aware that every professional immigrant in SG is contributing the country’s income and wellbeing ,while they are content with the salary earned.This is by no means called “Cheap Labour”.

    so why r doctors from Non traditional source nations paid lesser than singaporean drs? please explain

    why aren’t we recruiting more doctors from Japan and South Korea, UK?


  428. asa Says:

    how much does a pediatrician make?
    what about a


  429. to asa Says:

    stop asking how much they make, if u wanna be rich don’t be a doctor. they really dun make as much as lawyers, property agents, businessmen etc etc etc…


  430. disagree Says:

    are u sure doctor make less than lawyer or property agent
    Dr. Ng Eng Hen was apparently making $400K a month before he join politics.

    How many lawyers or property agents make that much money.


  431. surgeon Says:

    Specialised surgeon – $27,977
    Advocate and solicitor – $11,147

    Dont be red eyed
    Surgeons are the best paid in Singapore cause we spend a long time acquiring our skills and we can charge a premium because of that.

    We earn double that of lawyers. This is no bullshit cause it is published data.

    Dont be a troll and create problem!


  432. jack Says:

    isn’t it inaccurate to compare a specialised surgeon’s salary with a lawyer’s salary? one can become a fully qualified lawyer between the ages of 23 to 26 (depending on gender and place of study). it is not possible to be a specialised surgeon at this age. it is therefore perhaps more apt to compare doctors and lawyers in general.

    if we compare the amounts earned by both professions in the same age group, i doubt you would reach the same conclusion.


  433. .a. Says:

    actually if you look at the other thread with the lawyers, “legalhr” pointed out that a lawyer with 4 years experience will easily get 110-180k depending on bonus.
    MO pay according to above poster is 3500.

    of course if you compare the superstars in each profession there are top surgeons and top lawyers all earning way more than the average lawyer/ GP can ever hope to make.


  434. lawstudent Says:

    Law firms hike salaries, slice bonuses
    Starting pay at top outfits hits $5,200 a month as battle for talent hots up

    http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub...

    Hey your data is old.
    Now starting pay of lawyers is $5200 compared to $8400 ($2400+6000 bond )for houseman
    We are slowly catching up pay of doctors but our school fees are lower and 1 year shorter and also we get more in the end.


  435. ofcourse Says:

    but doctors are more respected. remember those lawyer jokes?


  436. kadima Says:

    Australian Immigration Visa Options for doctors and nurses

    http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medi...
    http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medi...
    http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medi...


  437. mcbing Says:

    Hi! Sorry … new here … I was wondering about the payscales for Singapore docs especially physician consultants … I just cannot find any published payscales! Can someone shed some light on this?

    I understand that in Singapore there are specialties difficult to recruit into … can I know which ones they are?

    Does that mean the remuneration will be higher?

    Sorry … soo many questions …


  438. Scary Says:

    Is there any freedom of speech in Singapore? I cannot imagine my self working in such organization/place.

    In the US, you can say whatever you want. Please go to scutwork.com, to see what people say about every teaching hospital in the US. No “actions” were taken by the hospital, faculty, or government. Every person should have freedom to speak, in it reflects quality of life in where you live.

    I respect admin’s responds to the threat.


  439. Normal Says:

    There’s a freedom of speech in Singapore. You are free to say something nice about the authorities. In fact the more flowery your speech, the more likely it is that you’ll have a good life here.

    Seriously though, freedom of speech is overrated. If you can say whatever you want but no mechanism exists to correct underlying problems, you are still back at square one.

    What’s lacking in this world is not freedom of speech but people with true courage.


  440. freedom Says:

    We know the dangers of too much freedom, but we are talking about the appalling lack of freedom here.

    Even if one is giving constructive criticism, he gets shot down.

    Just look at the pathetic state of the newspapers here – none of the writers ever write any article even hinting at criticizing government policies. They all sing the same tune day in and day out, singing praises ad nauseam, though once in a dark blue moon they will publish forum letters talking negatively about govt policies (perhaps AFTER getting approvals from the top).


  441. Normal Says:

    I think it’s just a fact of life in Asia. Human rights, freedom of speech, etc is just simply a western concept, and given the mentality of most Asians, I am not convinced that democracy is the best system either. Either way, Asia has always followed one rule: those with money and power win, full stop. And truthfully, it’s the case everywhere even in the so called United States. I lived there for 10 years, so I think I would know.


  442. Kevin Says:

    Re: freedom speech, I’d rather live in a country with less public speaking rights – meaning, mindlessly criticising the government, the road, the cat, the dog, the neighbor .. than to live in a country where you have great freedom, and also the freedom to get shot for no reason, robbed and raped because of ‘temporary insanity’ and also drugs and such are sort of constitutionally enshrined as basic rights.

    Compared to freedom of speech in – Pyongyong, Tehran and .. maybe Kinshasha, Singapore is much much much better, and you don’t get shot for speaking your mind, while compared to the Developed Western World, has one of the safest place for waking up and heading out without the fear of a 9 mm pointed at your face for a couple of $ robbery ..

    I agree with Normal – Freedom of speech is over-rated and expounded by the democracies who can’t guarantee a safe place to live – take for example India – I saw a policeman get beat up because he arrested a politico’s son for running a red light.

    And, in another country, a lot of guys sitting and critisizing the government and none of them bothering about exercising their voting rights to bring in change, and then cursing every mother of son for their own miseries ..

    Life is not perfect, and Singapore is my first choice for safe living ..


  443. freedom Says:

    Singapore is a good place for foreigners.


  444. Scary Says:

    I can deal with “a little less of freedom of speech” :)

    I am confused about MO, registrar, specialist/consultant. I read the explanation on earlier post.

    If I am a US or UK trained physician (Internist), when I start my carrier in Spore, what would I become? What if I finish my Cardiology fellowship?

    Thanks


  445. middleclass Says:

    “But we either believe in democracy or we not. If we do, then, we must say categorically, without qualification, that no restraint from the any democratic processes, other than by the ordinary law of the land, should be allowed… If you believe in democracy, you must believe in it unconditionally. If you believe that men should be free, then, they should have the right of free association, of free speech, of free publication. Then, no law should permit those democratic processes to be set at nought.”
    - Lee Kuan Yew as an opposition leader, April 27, 1955


  446. to mcbing Says:

    (to mcbing)
    i believe physician consultants (the internal med people, not the cardio/ gastro people) should be getting 9-10k thereabouts. add in 3 mth bonus annual pay package around 150k.


  447. mcbing Says:

    Thanx!
    I was just having a look and there is a website claiming that a Consultant in Singapore ie with sub-specialty training is earning >$18500 is that true?

    Sorry…for asking again…as I am considering of working in Singapore for a few years to see the world and need to make it worth my while leaving my job in the USA.

    I am considering HK as well… cos their salary is much higher than Singapore…

    the website is quite unique… need to scroll down …keen for your opinions!

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/18040421/...


  448. James Says:

    Can anyone tell me how much a consultant pathologist can make in singapore?


  449. danke Says:

    i was told that there are 3 clinic in town which caters to the angmoh expatriate clients and they pay well
    was told that their GP gets around $11k per month for a 5.5 day week, which is a lot higher than what some private clinics are paying their GPs. why is that so?

    is it easy to get a job with them? or do they only hire white skin caucasian or eurasian doctors?


  450. Wish Says:

    To all doctors hoping to come to Singapore, take everything you read with a pinch of salt. Speak to people who have come here to work and ask them how it’s like. Speak to those who have left after a year or two as well.

    The views here are clouded for better or worse by their own agendas. There are admin people who are on a recruitment drive who will threaten anyone who dares say anything negative about the system here. There are also the jaded tired few who with good intentions speak out against the hours and issues on safety, but seem to somewhat lack fortitude. Things are getting better, and you are not alone, so be strong!

    The admin of this site has done a good job in achieving some sort of balance whilst refusing to bow to petty threats.

    The policy of alleviating the workload in public healthcare by recruiting foreign talent is well intentioned but fundamentally flawed. The total pop of doctors in Singapore is adequate to meet the demands of the ageing pop. It’s simply the maldistribution that’s the problem. The private sector is saturated as it is, although of course you can be successful if you are exceptional. (although even the giants makes mistakes: I have followed up with some mistakes left by them in the public sector when their surgeon has moved on to private).

    Increasing the pool of doctors through recruitment drives help in the short term and is an easier solution when compared to a needed harsh review of what is wrong with our system in the workplace. The people who come here are not doing it to stay in the public health, although of course they won’t mind if they will be paid well and treated well. There are people in their home country whom they can serve if they so desire. Our foreign doctors come here for a better life. Unless they find a better life, they will leave. Usually they leave back to their home country because their conditional registration doesn’t allow them to go private. Of course they can always hire someone else what with our new trade agreements with India and china. But working this way doesn’t add value to the system as you don’t try to sieve out what’s wrong and rectify it. The goal is low cost public healthcare without a compromisie on quality. This is acheivable with their current strategy. your pay and happiness comes secondary to the common good. Unfortunately what they fail to see is that increasing pay, rectifying the problems that exist and in doing so, retaining doctors after the bond is over can be a better alternative, adds value and in the long run is more sustainable. The money that goes into recruitment drives can be better spent on welfare and performance bonuses. Foreign talent will come when they see their friends happy, contented and integrated into a warm welcoming and very cosmopolitan singapore.

    Maybe I should join admin :)

    again my foreign friends, speak to people who have been here before preferably, face to face. There are happy stories and sad ones. You’ll have a lot to prove vs local grads who hace made friends with and are known to the bosses,, but if you’re good, you’ll still make it.


  451. IndianDoc Says:

    Hi Guys,

    I am a medical grad with 5 years experience in various specialties following housemanship in India. My college is one of the few recognized by SMC. I had applied and am selected for recruitment by the MOHH. I have a few very pressing questions I need answered urgently to make a decision before I move to Singapore. Here goes:
    1. Is recruitment by MOHH the same as working under MOH? Does it both mean that I will be an employee under MOH? Do I have to pay anything to MOHH during the process of recruitment? Or, should I apply again through MOH.
    2. What would be my salary when I join there? They told me somewhere around $3500 + some benefits. I want to be sure of what gross sum I will get in hand following all tax deductions.
    3. How sure can I be to get into residency in Emergency Medicine or Medicine?
    4. Can I do my residency in Emergency Medicine and at the same time do my MCEM?
    5. How easy or difficult would it be for me to settle with my wife and kid in Singapore with my work schedule?
    6. Will I be able to continue working long-term in Singapore with my current status and what would be the pros and cons?

    I hope someone would answer to these queries that I have. It would help me greatly as I am very confused with the variety of responses seen in this discussion, particularly the ones initially.

    Would love to hear it right from people in the know. Thanks in advance.


  452. sgdr Says:

    Hi IndianDoc
    Welcome to Singapore
    Q1
    MOHH is the holding company of Singapore’s public healthcare assets so working in MOHH is like working under MOH just that you are not a civil servant.
    There is no need to pay anything to MOHH as it was structured for the common employment of junior doctors to ensure effective allocation and training of medical manpower.
    There is no need to apply again through MOH.
    Q2
    3500 is basic salary but there are bonuses (several months, on call allowances and meal allowances, medical benefits, dental benefits.

    Q3
    Residency is competitive so good luck on your application but as Singapore practices meritocracy, foreign doctors are not discriminated unlike in most other countries.

    Q4
    MCEM is optional for those doing residency.
    U can apply thru NUS.
    http://www.med.nus.edu.sg/dgms/#EM
    9 June 2010 and 8 Dec 2010.

    Q5
    cant comment as I am a local doctor but most of my colleagues are adapting well to Singapore.

    Q6
    There is a shortage of doctors in Singapore and working long term should not be a problem.

    Pros
    Meritocracy
    Good standard of living

    Cons
    Small country
    Residency recognised in Singapore only so do MCEM as a hedge in case you plan to migrate in future


  453. Self made Millionaire Says:

    Now i can judge for myself who are the bad people and who are the good ones.
    slave of medicine — good person
    admin — neutral,but sick of foreign talent
    hospadmin — devil or bad person
    i aspired to be a doctor since young however can’t excel academically,this maybe a blessing in disguise i’m now a millionaire.if i’m like you all,i think i am still in the rat race for a registrar…hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


  454. IndianDoc Says:

    Thanks sgdr for all the info. Was timely and answered almost all of my doubts.


  455. joffre Says:

    Any drs here with Australian/UK registration? There is a clinic in darwin australia desperatly looking for GPs and they are willing to pay
    A$10 000 PER WEEK (night shifts)

    Airfares from Singapore to Darwin – open to negotiation
    Drs who can handle polyclinic/TTSH A&E will find this job a piece of cake.
    They are willing to pay part of the airfare from Sgp to Darwin


  456. realistic doc Says:

    Appreciate to all the inputs as we happen to aware what is all about Singapore medical care system.

    In dire need of professionals, developed countries are in search of overseas talents,but sometimes it’s ironic that the workforce would somehow be least appreciated by many in terms of career conflicts.

    Anyway,it’s obvious that this blog is a lot more substantial to anybody including me(an Asian who’s thinking about trying for a professional identity while being aware of career suicide somewhere.)

    Two thumbs up for the good-willed contributors here as theirs envisioned us.

    *As I’m nobody in professional arena, it’s welcome for any bombarding criticism.


  457. med Says:

    I am a dermatologist practiced for 12 years in European country. Can I ask what salary should I expect for senior consultant/associate professor in a public hospital in Singapore? HOw soon can I I get formal registration? THank you very much for your input.


  458. manpower Says:

    Hi med

    MO earn $3500-5000
    Reg $5000-7000
    Associate Consultant $7000-9000
    Consultatant $9000 up

    The above is the base salary which does not include procedure and bonuses.
    Typically hospitals pay 3 months bonus (2 months + 13th month)

    U should quote yr previous salary when applying.

    The following website is for your reference
    http://www.geraldtan.com/premed/Doc...

    U will be given provisional registration assuming yr postgraduate qualification is recognised by singapore medical council

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlo...

    For specialist
    If u are Singaporean, 1 yr to get full registration
    If not, 2 yrs to get full registration

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/11537094...


  459. anilbn Says:

    hi all,
    i had previously posted a query here..have not got convincing reply till now…can somebody help me ?..regarding an Indian medical graduate (college recognized by singapore medical council) to study postraduation/residency in singapore leading to specialisation in a particular discipline..like for example a medical undergraduate wants to become a specialist in paediatrics ?…what are the chances..how long will it take..how is the fee structure like etc…this information will be very helpful…


  460. PedOrth Says:

    Hi all… I am an Orthopod from India and have completed my MS Orthop 3 months back. I want to apply for fellowship in NUH or KKH. The pay is 1500 SGD per month in NUH and 210 SGD per call in KKH. Whats ur opinion on the pay and the possibilty of making a bare living in Singapore and the possibility of getting the fellowship………….
    P.S. The duration of the course is one year……


  461. come Says:

    don’t worry about pay for now. just come. the people here are suckers for foreigners. they will embrace any non-citizen with open arms and lots of money. i’m here, so i know. trust me, the people here really suffer from serious xenophilia. the only other similar city i know is dubai, but in dubai, the citizens are godly creatures with loads of money and preferential treatment. whereas in singapore, the government and businesses strangely confer preferential godly treatment to foreigners. it’s totally weird, but it’s to my benefit, so i don’t really care.


  462. sgpatient Says:

    Yup
    Come and lower healthcare costs in Singapore.
    We can afford to die but not fall sick in Singapore.


  463. admin Says:

    See also the comments at:
    http://www.salary.sg/2010/graduate-...


  464. Jamie Says:

    Can anyone tell me how much a consultant radiologist make in public and private hospital in sg? How abt interventional radiologist?


  465. john Says:

    What does Singapore have in store for me? As I can see there are headhunters for foreign talent in this forum

    My qualifications are
    MBBS and MS Ortho from Universiti Malaya in Malaysia
    Spine Fellow from Hong Kong University

    I would like to know what positions are available to me?


  466. nothing Says:

    nothing. come back and ask again after the ruling party win the elections. the flood gates will open once again after they’ve got the mandate from the people to implement unpopular policies for the long-term benefit of the country.

    btw, why don’t you ask your country what’s in stall for you? how about for me? why doesn’t your country welcome foreigners as much as singapore does? why isn’t your country as desperate?


  467. wavelength Says:

    Hi John
    can visit our website for more details
    To date, we have helped many doctors find jobs in Singapore.
    Out of 600 new doctors in Singapore, 400 are foreigners so Singapore is very open to foreign trained doctors like Australia and New Zealand.

    It is free for doctors to choose our services and we can provided professional advice on how best to help you.

    http://www.wave.com.au/

    1. Registration
    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlo...

    1. Is your basic degree/specialist degree registrable?
    If not, it would be difficult to get a job in Singapore unless you are interested to work in certain specialties like a and e, geriatrics, neonatology.

    2. What is your expected pay?

    Although the actual salaries paid, if converted to another currency, appear low, the “take home” pay is a considerably different story (especially at the higher end of earnings) because Singapore has one of the lowest taxation systems in the world. The maximum income tax bracket is 20% and on the first SING$300,000 you would only pay approximately $40,000 in tax (or 12.5%).

    Hospitals rarely provide indicative salary levels or scales and salaries are very much based on the Doctors experience and career history.

    Typically Hospitals in Singapore offer between a 1-3 year renewable employment contract.

    You will generally find Hospitals will also pay annual bonuses, both guaranteed and variable, and offer housing allowances, some relocation costs (flights). Other employment benefits will usually include: Childcare facilities, Competitive leave benefits, Family friendly practices, Flexi-work arrangements, Medical dental and group term life insurance benefits and Subsidised health screening programmes.

    3. Jobs available
    http://www.wave.com.au/medical-jobs...

    Hope to hear from you soon.
    You will also get a referral fee if you refer your friends to us.

    Regards


  468. wavelength Says:

    Radiology Consultant – Singapore

    Competitive performance based pay & leave benefits
    1-3 year renewable contracts
    Family friendly practices

    THE JOB
    The hospital currently has a need for a Consultant in their Radiology department that provides a comprehensive range of diagnostic imaging within a number of subspecialties, including but not limited to:

    • Body imaging (gastrointestinal, hepatobiliary, genitourinary)
    • Head and neck imaging
    • Breast imaging
    • Interventional radiology
    • Musculoskeletal radiology
    • Uroradiology

    To apply for this position or to find out more information, feel free to contact me on the details below.

    Richard Taylor
    Phone: (02) 8353 9021
    E-mail: [email protected]
    Job reference: 19824


  469. john Says:

    Thank you very much nothing. I thought so too. Anyway just wanted to find out. Thanks for your input. Hope that you guys will get better working conditions and pay.


  470. john Says:

    When I found this forum i thought that it was a forum to ask about prospective employment in Singapore. I made a mistake not reading through all the posts. After scrutiny I find that this forum sounds very much like the letters to the editor in most Malaysian newspaper. Whenever an issue comes about, there is always some paasionate comments and arguments from the doctors. Granted there are differences in opinion between the young and the older generation. But remember that both serve the people regardless of race and nationality. I have been a doctor more than 10 years and I realize that my opinions have changed throughout the years.Early in your career you feel that you deserve better and in some way you feel mistreated . For doctors I think that this may be the universal truth. Later in your life after you have acquired more knowledge, skills and patience then you realize that there are two important reasons to be a doctor;
    1st is to serve and by serving it does not detract from you. 2nd is medicine is stimulutaing intellectually whether it is the scientific papers that you write or the fact that you learn more about human nature everyday.
    I have trained many young doctors and the challange is to not to kill their interest. It is difficult not no stifle their youth and energy and replace it with what we call discipline and respect. But again, we do not like people forcing their values and ideas upon us , so why should we do the same. It is easy to dismiss someone but to understand why someone acted in that particular manner needs patience and fact finding. Arguments are a loud senseless exchange of words which achieves nothing but discussion is a purposeful exchange of ideas. No doctor like to be treated as mercenaries and we should refrain from labelling our colleagues as greedy. If you think that something is wrong , educate and effect that change. Sometimes you have to fight for it but do it in a dignified manner.
    I remember visiting the SARS memorial in HK and I was touched by the fact that many young doctors died while serving their country. These people volunteered and lost their lives. Nobody forced them to work with SARS patients but they did. No matter how the world has changed and how well doctors are paid this is a noble profession. I see how prooud the HK people are of their doctors and rarely you will see anyone complain how too well paid they are; my opinion is because the medical community acted selflessly when called upon. Think about that.
    Do not be so quick to judge others.


  471. 400 foreign doctors Says:

    “Out of 600 new doctors in Singapore, 400 are foreigners.”

    hi wavelength, is the above data published anywhere?


  472. yepPublished Says:

    “Out of 600 new doctors in Singapore, 400 are foreigners.”

    ya published in the Journal of Newer Ways Frustrated Singaporeans Vent Out Their Anger of Foreigners :)


  473. politics Says:

    more foreign doctors are required because of the huge population increase.

    i have no qualms if the immigration policies benefit singaporeans, but are we getting a better living in terms of better infrastructure, higher salaries, less stressful working environments?

    NO! instead, we see escalating car and property prices, overloaded public transport, declining productivity, declining SALARIES, higher inflation, and we even get snubbed at by foreigners who say “your country needs us”!

    is it our fault?

    the only beneficiaries of our lax foreign immigration are: people whose salaries are tied to GDP growth (you know who you are) and the foreigners themselves. and maybe those who invest in stocks and properties (definitely not the majority). and maybe business owners who hire cheap foreign labour (yah, we hate washing dishes and cleaning tables, but what about those Giordano cashier jobs? we can definitely do these, yet we see foreigners taking up the jobs cos they are cheaper but not necessarily better).

    who suffer? the citizens, our NS boys (defending the foreigners! how funny is that), people who take the crammed public transport, young couples who need a roof, sick people who can’t speak english to the foreigner doctor at the polyclinic.

    i would rather go back to the days when GDP growth is slower, but our lives are much better off than now.


  474. frustrated Says:

    >Newer Ways Frustrated Singaporeans Vent Out Their Anger of Foreigners

    because we can’t protest outside parliament, so we can only vent our frustrations online to let them know our unhappiness, in case they naively assume singaporeans support the foreign trash policy because there are no protests outside parliament like the way someone claimed singaporeans support cpf cuts because there are no protests outside parliament.

    of course, the other way is to vote for the opposition in the coming elections. can they help? i’m damn willing to give them a chance lor.


  475. wavelength Says:

    https://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/parl...

    In the past 3 years, 1,246 foreign-trained doctors were recruited, while 685 graduated locally. Of the foreign-trained doctors, 176 are Singaporeans.

    Hi I am just a recruitment consultant so I am just doing my job.

    Regards


  476. frustrated Says:

    >I am just a recruitment consultant so I am just doing my job.

    ha ha… this is so funny. you sound apologetic and even afraid! anyway, no one’s blaming you.


  477. yamulke Says:

    Frustrated at the thought of being marginalised when you can’t get into the training position of your choice?
    Tired of empty promises of being accepted into an Advanced Trainee job – till the cows come home?
    Keen to be able to practice real medicine instead of being tied down in endless cough and cold medicine or being under pressure to do 5 minute consults?
    keen for a change in professional lifestyle?
    keen for a change in workplace environment where verbal abuse and bullying is not tolerated by the Health Minister and Hospital Administrations?

    doctors, nurses and other allied health professionals are desperately needed in australia now.
    The current Health Minister Roxon is pumping in a lot of money into health care positions.

    do check up this website from the Australian Government department of Health and Ageing for medical practitioners
    http://www.health.gov.au/internet/m...


  478. hkger Says:

    Doctors in SG really earn so little compared with HK:
    In HK, even a houseman can earn ~22000 HKD a month (which is about 5000 SGD)…can’t believe a MO in SG earn even less than that!
    for your information, a MO in HK earn about 50000-10000 per month
    Asso consultant: >100000 a month
    consultant: >130000


  479. yamulke Says:

    singaporean doctors are very well respected in Australia and they do clear the AMC exam with minimal hassles.
    Many rural towns or areas of need are crying out for doctors.
    Are they hated? geee .. there are too many health care jobs (for drs/nurses/physios) going around … people can literally cherry pick.

    drs who have just cleared their NUS MBBS exams/ FRCP exams will clear the Australian Medical Council exams with little difficulty


  480. i'm leaving Says:

    sounds good. i’m a singapore doctor here. i’m packing my bags.


  481. RNkak_wanindarwin Says:

    the typical demanding FON patient that is rampant in the hospitals here in singapore doesn’t exist in austarlia/nz.
    verbal violence is never tolerated in the health system over here in australia/nz. hospital security guards will be asked to remove the typical aggressive FON patient that we nurses face(i used to handle them for my dear junior doctor colleagues in sg).


  482. fellow Says:

    Can anyone update me regarding salary of clinical fellow in Singapore. It was stated to be $2000, but i think it is a bit too low as i actually can work at least as a medical officer or registrar (with my undergrad qualification registrable under Singapore medical council).

    Plan to take the clinical fellowship as i only plan for temporary working contract and gain more clinical exposure. The down side is, i heard the fellow will be expected to work like MO (to my surprise) and the wage is way too low for work scope of MO.

    Anyone have any suggestion ?


  483. Clinical fellow Says:

    To Fellow
    it depends in which institution and specialty u r going for, can u tell more so can advise?


  484. fellow Says:

    To clinical fellow,

    medical oncology. NCC.

    Thank


  485. farah Says:

    hi,
    My husband is an Associate Consultant Radiologist (MD,FRCR)working in a reputed Cancer hospital In India having over 10 yrs of experience.He has got an offer from NCC but for the post of service registrar and then has to go for 2 yrs of AST…is the offer worthwhile??what r the working conditions of registrar like??what shud be an appropriate salary for a decent living in singapore with only husband and wife?? can anyone plz help??
    thanks in advance


  486. doctor Says:

    tell us how much is the offer and we’ll tell you more.


  487. farah Says:

    The basic salary of a service registrar is around 5200 SGD besides there is 1000 SGD fixed specialist allowance and 1500 SGD as house allowance…the total makes it to around 7700 SGD per month…
    so is this package worthwhile? enough to live a decent lifestyle for a couple? any idea of the working hours of service registrar /AST..?? after 2 yrs of AST are there are any chances of becoming Associate Consultant?? there are so many queries..:)
    thanks


  488. doctor Says:

    it’s pretty decent, enough to lead a slightly above average life in singapore. chance of moving up is always there, perhaps a little higher than locals as this country embraces foreigners. foreigners are called “talent” here. locals are trash. our prime minister just said we need another 100,000 foreigners. we are desperate to have you come here and will treat you like royalty once you are here. we need you. we badly need you. come come.


  489. Chris Says:

    1500 SGD for housing is pretty little unless you don’t mind living in crappy old social housing called HDBs. Rental HDBs are pretty scarce and usually rented out to groups of foreign workers. Rents are the most expensive thing in Singapore and will easily set you back 2500 SGD to 3500 SGD…


  490. doctor Says:

    so, what you can do is to buy a HDB flat once you obtain PR status. some shrewd PRs buy a condo to live in and a HDB to rent out.

    http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/0...


  491. doctor's Dad Says:

    hey doctor:
    migrate to Aus , be a PR, and cash in life…it will reduce ur frustration


  492. But... Says:

    However, if you want to buy a resale HDB flat you will need at least 50000K SGD (COV) + 20% of the flat’s value in CASH!


  493. But... Says:

    Of course I meant: 50000 SGD or 50K SGD :)


  494. not Singaporean Says:

    I would agree that Au still better option. Life as doc is not easy in this country. All my friend told me that.


  495. tanvier Says:

    farah – just keep an open mind. ask foreign drs who are already working here regarding the terms and conditions here.
    please read this whole forum and analyse what other drs have written and see what the admin people have written.
    in this way, u can make a fair and inpartial judgement of what your partner is heading for.

    do talk to drs who are working in oz and nz, uk about their terms and conditions 2. don’t just blindly read what people have written here.


  496. farah Says:

    Thanks for the info…but regarding rental house if we will shell out around 2500-3500 SGD then wat will be left with us??? but in the above comment No.84 of hospadmin..its mentioned that we can get a 3 BHK condo for abt 1300-3000 SGD!!!!
    Have few dr.friends in Singapore will call them to know first hand info…
    my husband is keen to do AST in a cancer center as it will be helpful for him in the long run.
    i guess gng to UK is not an easy task as there is a long procedure to go thru and we also dnt hav enough info abt working in UK but if sumbody has it then it will be highly appreciable..
    thanks again..!


  497. nothing Says:

    wat will be left with you? do you want 3 meals at a hawker centre, food court or restaurant? be grateful that you got a job with decent pay. if your husband’s current job pays well, i bet you won’t even be thinking of moving here.

    or you can totally rent hospadmin’s apartment for 1300, so you can eat better.

    just come. nobody’s stopping you.

    and you should’ve called your dr friends first.


  498. Chris Says:

    A condo for 1300 SGD is not realistic, even if it is 30 min. by car from the city centre (basically this means on the other side of the island). Landlords have mortgages to pay and need at least 2500 SGD to break even…

    The most expensive things in Singapore are housing and cars (if you need one). However, taxes and other living expenses are low. Public transport is good and very cheap. I was earning more in Germany but paid a lot more taxes and social security contributions. I earn less in SG but have more cash at the end of the month and am able to save more over here.


  499. anilbn Says:

    Dear all,

    I have posted query twice in this forum but till now did not get any replies :( …my query is about medical specialisation/residency options in singapore..i have MBBS degree from a college in India recognised by singapore..now i want to do specialisation (Like MD or residency) in singapore..now what is the procedure for this?..some say that working as a MO for couple of yrs is necessary..after that how to enter a specialistation or residency..how long will it take to be a specialist?..how about the fees and scholarship options?…replies will be kindly helpfl…


  500. tanvier Says:

    farah- from what i have seen, the overseas trained doctors come here fall into a few groups

    group 1 – doctors who have obtained their higher qualifications from western countries and already hold senior posts in these places. they will be richly rewarded and they get fat cat salaries and housing allowances and their kids get to go to international schools- it is not hard to know who these people are as there are not many of them ;)

    group 2 – drs who do not have higher qualifications from western countries and they work like dogs and get paid humble salaries.
    they could have graduated from asian or western institutions, but it doesn’t matter. they are just foot soldiers.

    group 3 – drs who have just received a fellowship from western institutions- they will come in as registrars. they better make sure that they are not short changed.

    if you fall into group 2, i will suggest that you should go and do a higher fellowship overseas. coming to work in sgp as a junior is bed of roses – from what i have seen in the entries above.

    good luck.
    do ask drs who are working in sgp to confirm the facts – don’t just blindly read things written here. make your own judgement.


  501. poordoc Says:

    Like the post No 501.
    i’m humbled to find myself in group 2.
    Well,it is ironic that papers,certificates and documents are more important than people’s skill.

    My two cents.. even in a very open society with full rights and democratic principles, there will and has been such a thing as XENOPHOBIA.

    What A poor me being born in a third world country…
    LOL:)


  502. tanvier Says:

    i agree with 502 that no society can profess itself to be a utopia. there will always be such things as discrimination, poverty, xenophobia, discrimination against leser mortals etc ;)

    likewise, being discriminated by people of your own skin or your own countrymen stings big time.

    which 3rd world country r u in? ;)
    somewhere in afrika? asia? europe? ;)


  503. farah Says:

    post no. 498 “nothing” thrs nothing to be rude..atleast be polite with ladies!!
    thanks tanvier…yeah my husband has done FRCR (UK)he is an onco radiologist..reason for moving to singapore is that he loves this counrty for many reasons and doing AST in a cancer center will be beneficial for him in the long run..!!
    thanks
    cheers!!


  504. tanvier Says:

    farah – keep an open mind. before your husband signs his contract, do read it carefully. ensure that there are no unfair clauses in the event if he wants to quit if conditions are not favourable or if conditions are not fair.
    $7500 per month excluding rental expenses in 2010 singapore can leave you very little savings if you factor into the housing issue.
    one can live very comfortably on a monthly salary of S$7500 in new zealand or australia – with savings :) .

    isn’t your husband a radiation oncologist, not a ‘onco radiologist’? :P

    but i do suggest that he should keep an open mind about australia and nz as well. getting a job & a visa in new zealand is easy and many drs move on to australia afterwards.

    if your husband were to come to singapore without his FRCR (uk), he will definitely be a “foot soldier” – please read the above entries about the condition of junior drs above ;)


  505. tanvier Says:

    hatexeno – they are frustrated because they are discriminated by their own kind at work in their own homeland, and i don’t blame them.
    no point in hating lah …. let it be.
    everybody is entitled to their own opinions and i respect that.

    at the end of the day, people will make their own choices if they want to stay put or emigrate and it is entirely up to them. we have to respect their decisions.

    if they can get a better offer overseas where they can be easily paid > S$20k monthly post tax as a gp in rural australia (provided they are keen to do > 60 hrs per week – see above), why not!if they are after better working conditions, it is understandable and we should not belittle them.

    but if they choose to stay put here in sgp for whatever reason, it is entirely up to them. this is a free world. :)


  506. xeno2 Says:

    can’t you see that her husband is just a radiologist and not an oncologist? and “she” is probably the husband himself.

    tip to all foreigners: if it isn’t obvious yet, singapore is an extremely pro-foreigner country where you will be given priority consideration for top positions. male foreigners and PRs do not have to serve “national service” (up to 2 months a year) and that further gives you better standing as you have more time to outperform your citizen peers. citizens are brainwashed daily that foreign talent are desperately needed to keep the country going, so you’ll see lots of subservient citizens and even government servants (how apt is the term) at your beck and call. the xenophobic ones are but a minority.


  507. farah Says:

    tanvier- ya may be a radiation oncologist or onco- radiologist..I dnt hav much knowledge in this regard :) but he writes in his CV as onco radiologist..:) thanks for ur concern..
    xeno2- what do u mean by “she” is probably the husband himself….cant any wife discuss anything abt her husband..!!i cant be fake like others! and thats the reason why i hav written my real name here unlike others…is there no place of genuine people!! plz kindly think twice before commenting such things..
    cheers!!


  508. xeno2 Says:

    farah, my real name is xeno2.


  509. luv$$ Says:

    foreign talent ARE necessary, they rent my 2 condos and give me passive income of >10k per month. stop belittling their contributions.


  510. xeno2 Says:

    that’s because you are fortunate enough to be a landlord. there must be a balance in our immigration policies for both low wage foreign workers and high paid foreign talent. if we do not start voicing out our displeasure, your children may have their jobs taken away, or maybe become maids in other countries (to borrow what a wise old man said). or even worse, become maids in our own country, serving foreign masters.


  511. The Indian Says:

    @ Mr Xeno2. I appreciate your thoughts. But there is another interesting side of this issue. There is hot discussion among Indian politician and bureaucrats to BAN Indian doctors, scientist and other talented lots to leave India and serve other countries and contribute to other their progress, development, instead of serving the India. Indian government spend million and million of money to make one doctor or scientist but when they are fully trained and when it is time to serve India, they are picked by other countries like America, UK or even Singapore etc and used for their own development and improvement of healthcare. It is just like you plant a small mango sapling, care it, water it for years, and once it start fruiting some other take ownership of the mature plant and enjoy its mangoes. Doctors and scientist who leave India to work in other countries are the most talented one. Only not so good and less talented lots are left in India. So there are local Indian who want to prevent them from leaving India and serve here only and repay back the money and effort which Indian government gave them free. So they want to stop this “Brain Drain”.
    Having said that Indian believe Singaporeans are great people, with broad vision and we all regards for them. Long live Singaporeons and Indians


  512. tanvier Says:

    let’s face it, first rate indians doctors all go to US/UK/America/Australia. Those who come to Singapore are unfortunately unable to qualify for western visas (some temporarily) or strict western institutional medical requirements. I will leave it up to people in the forum to decide what ‘rate’ they are.
    But once they have passed their USMLE/Australian Medical Council exams, they will move on from Singapore. unless Singapore institutions are prepared to pay them say western rates – which is unlikely unless they are really outstanding in western countries (but if they are having it good say in the US, they won’t even give a second hoot about working in sgp)


  513. Dr. Lawrence Kindo Says:

    I disagree with the Indian comment that “Only not so good and less talented lots are left in India”. There are many of us here that are here for the people and not because we are less talented lot. I was selected to go to Singapore and the US but decided otherwise. I think we have some sincere doctors left in India, and generalizing the issue is demeaning. Do you mean to say that senior doctors in our top medical colleges who have shunned offers abroad are a less talented lot. I think that was a tongue in cheek comment that should be avoided.

    Hey Tanvier, your comment “first rate indians doctors all go to US/UK/America/Australia”, I am surprised that we are so archaic in our thoughts. Like I said to “The Indian”, this thought process needs to change. The truly first rate Indian doctors are those that choose to serve the country whatever the cost. I have my doubts if you two are Indians, and if at all, I feel you have plans abroad.

    Respect your country and at least sincere citizens that are the cause of India still having a decent face in the world today.


  514. The Indian Says:

    @ Mr Kindo…..We should not be jingoistic and chauvinistic. We should be truthful. If I admire Singaporean qualities u and we should not feel offended. Rather we should inculcate those qualities. One is brave if he can appreciate publicly others good quality and more brave if he can criticize his own weaknesses. Singaporeans are great because only criterion to climb up is Talent and only Talent, unlike ours where caste, OBC group, tribal lineage,NRI quotas,Political quotas,money, region, religion count much more than talent. This does not happen in Singapore. They dont have reservation or quota for local Singaporean. This is something you should admire. but it takes guts to do so. Instead, we should try to bring in this system in our culture so that true talent is not lost among quotas and reservations and they need not leave India for abroad for professional satisfaction. I dont become lesser Indian if I can appreciate a Singaporean.


  515. happydoc Says:

    Remember dr jayant patel. Australians are more wary of indian doctors so singapore is becoming the country of choice. Indians exp are better educated and more appreciate of medical staffs so working in sg is a dream come true.


  516. dr.pushpa Says:

    hi,
    i hv specialised in community medicine. i hv 4 years of teaching & research experience. i am from India , i would like to know if there is any part time job avaliable in singapore medical college


  517. Fresh GP Doctors Make $10k | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore Says:

    [...] Even locums make $70/hr. [...]


  518. Dr.Ashok Says:

    hi
    Thanks for all that information.I am Indian doctor. My basic qualification & post graduate qualification is obtained at medical school not listed in government.Will I be still able to apply for a specialist position in Singapore?Will I still be able to apply for landed permanent resident status ?
    Please clarify


  519. advicer Says:

    Ground situation for family of four to five ( 2 to 3 kids ):
    Rental: ( 2500 to 4000 SGD for 2 to three bedroom condo well outside CBD confines) HDB 1800 plus for 2 bedroom outside city confines.
    Car: 60000 SGD to 170000 SGD depending on your taste and this is for 10 yrs incl COE but exclusive road tax and insurance. Monthly shall be around 1500 SGD plus.
    Public transport: excellent coverage but pathetic during peak hrs i.e. office hours due to excessive crowding. If u r used to cars in home country, this might be the most difficult adjustment. Also, u will end up wasting much time in total.
    To add to ur woes: Taxi peak surcharge around 30 percent in peak hours and with current conditions if u r lucky u might get taxi after 30 mts of waiting. And yes 3 SGD extra for phone booking. And dont forget u still have to fight massive jams during peak hrs.
    Utilities and phone/ internet bills: 300-500 SGD
    Groceries etc 1500 to 2000 SGD per month.
    School fee: 400 to 600 SGD for foreigners/ kid.
    Full time maid : 650 SGD minimum and 150 to 200 maid expenditure over this.
    Part time maid 12 to 15 SGD per hour, e.g. 12 to 15 clothes ironed in 1 hour !

    Working hrs: Minimum 830 to 0600 and the one hr lunch is a formality for sure. Calls: min 1 per week ( starts at 8 in morning and runs till 1230 pm next day! Guaranteed to suck your marrow.)
    Stress level: High to Higher and over.
    Quality of work : Average to good.
    Research : encouraged ( if u have stamina left !)
    After office hrs: nobody will bother u unless u r on call duty.
    Racism: Not evident. People are usually helpful and reasonable, but don`t expect out of way help as you might have been used to in home country. But, in some hospitals you might get more number of calls and more weekend/ public holiday calls compared to locals. You do get paid for calls. Typically, for Medical officers ( MO ) 150 to 180 SGD and Registrars 240 to 260 SGD. This payment is pathetic if u consider that call starts at 6 pm, runs throughout the night and ends at 1230 pm next day. Total hrs on call=18 hrs, thus hrly rate for abnormal hrs of work : 10 for MO and 12 to 14 for reg. Sorry to say but u would be continuously working during these hrs and if lucky could get a staggered nap upto 4 hrs. And, average hrly paid for this out of hr, high stress, medicolegal liability work is less than what a maid ( called domestic helper here ) gets paid when she works during routine hrs!! But, you chose medicine to serve humanity ( in Singapore ). To pacify, you will get 7 SGD dinner allowance!

    Now balance and see whether its worth or not!


  520. Exploring options Says:

    Hi,

    Just offered a job as a psychiatrist for around 201000/year.

    Could some advise, would it be sufficient to live comfortably with family of four with some expectation towards savings.

    Thanks


  521. taw Says:

    do u know whats the salary of a fellow in SNEC?


  522. sydneymorningherald8nov10 Says:

    Give us a break, say exhausted doctors Kate Benson HEALTH
    November 8, 2010

    JUNIOR doctors are taking action against hospitals which force them to work more than 100 hours a week, putting patients’ lives at risk.

    The Health Services Union, which represents about 5500 interns, resident doctors and registrars across the state, is demanding NSW Health pays junior doctors more for on-call shifts and give them breaks between shifts – to put an end to doctors working up to 36 hours’ straight.

    Junior doctors are paid time and a half for the first two hours worked after a 10-hour shift, then double time for any hours after that. But once they have logged 24 hours in a row, the pay reverts to single time. They are paid an allowance of $13.10 for being on call for 24 hours.

    Advertisement: Story continues below ”But we’ve got doctors who work 24 or even 36 hours straight. They then go home and expect to get some sleep but that is interrupted by phone calls from the hospital and they they return for another long shift so any family or social life goes out the window,” said the union’s industrial services manager, Andrew Lillicrap. ”That has big implications for patients.”

    The union was pushing for 10-hour breaks between shifts, higher hourly rates for overtime and an hour’s pay for every phone call a doctor takes at home to advise on a patient, he said.

    The union’s general secretary, Michael Williamson, said 17 hours’ of wakefulness ”can create an equivalent impairment to having a blood alcohol level of 0.05”.

    ”And after 24 hours of wakefulness an equal impairment to a blood alcohol level of 0.1,” he said.

    The vice-president of the Australian Medical Association, Steve Hambleton, said changes to the NSW Medical Officers Award were long overdue. ”If these people were airline pilots their employers would be hauled over the coals, but somehow we expect doctors to be different to normal people. It’s time to bring this award into the 21st century – a junior doctor who mis-writes a drug chart because they are tired can put someone’s life at risk, and their own career is over. It’s not on,” Dr Hambleton said.

    A survey in 2006 by the AMA found 62 per cent of hospital doctors to be working unsafe hours. For those in surgical rounds, that rose to 85 per cent. The level of risk was determined by calculating total weekly hours, the amount of night work, the length of shifts, the extent of on-call commitments, access to breaks, and the long-term work pattern.

    One doctor, who did not want to be named, provided a diary of his week, which showed he had worked more than 106 hours over seven days and was on call for 77 hours.

    On some days, he had only fours hours between shifts to sleep, and that time was interrupted by taking phone calls from the hospital. For four consecutive nights last week he did not get home in time to see his three young children before they went to sleep and he often slept on the couch so his wife was not disturbed by his ringing phone when he was on call.

    ”More money for phone calls wouldn’t make much difference. I don’t do this for money, but it will make the hospitals stop and think before they ring for trivial matters. Some registrars get 20 to 30 calls a night.” He said he often fell asleep at the wheel on the way home and knew of one colleague who fell asleep on a patient while operating.


  523. moses Says:

    farah: have your husband made a move to singapore yet. Have u considered Malaysia? With his qualification he can apply for associate professor here.


  524. moses Says:

    In singapore, non resident pay flat tax rate of 15%, more than the local registrar.


  525. Hemant Says:

    Is maulana azad medical college,delhi,india recognised by the mohh????


  526. Exploring options Says:

    Hi,

    Just offered a job as a psychiatrist for around 201000/year.

    Could some advise, would it be sufficient to live comfortably with family of four with some expectation towards savings.

    Thanks


  527. Michael Says:

    Hemant: check the SMC website – they have published a list of recognised unis, and so does MOHH


  528. shabbaatshalom Says:

    exploring options – read the above and see what others have to say about the pay and working conditions.
    do speak to people who have worked in the local health care system and make your own judgement.

    S$200k per year is very comfortable for one person.
    but are your kids entitled to go to international school? some of the staff specialists here (no names mentioned) have clinched a good deal and their kids are entitled to international school fees allowances. do your home work carefully before you sign your name away.


  529. exploring options Says:

    Thanks shabbaatshalom:

    Job offered is 200k/ annum as a consultant Psychiatrist, including everything, with no other benefits. apart from medical cover for the family, 24 days annual leave.I am moving from UK and hold a british passport.

    Moving there with an expectation to save some money after living comfortably.

    1 kid 6yr old. looking to admit him into DPS school.

    Any comment would be helpful

    Thanks


  530. Depends Says:

    Depends on how you define ‘living comfortably’. My wife and I earn a combined 250k but we can’t comfortably afford a nice condo and a nice car. We stay in public housing, drive a Japanese MPV and our kids go to public schools.


  531. poor but surviving Says:

    @exploring options: how old are you and is your wife wokring?

    @Depends: woah, 250k per annum is very comforable. You guys are both in your 40s?


  532. exploring options Says:

    Thanks ‘Pxxx but surviving’

    House wife

    I am 37


  533. Depends Says:

    250k combined pay is nothing to shout about, though admittedly it is definitely more than many families. We are in our mid-30s and most of our friends – local grads, working professionals – also earn about the same or more. As I alluded to, if you lead a frugal asian lifestyle where saving for the rainy day is must and not a good-to-have (we save and invest more than 100k a year), you will find 250k can’t comfortably afford you a nice condo and a nice car. I am aware that many people with lesser pay lead a “nicer” life than I do. While I envy them at times, I know they are not saving and investing enough. They live for today whereas I save for tomorrow, but to each his own.


  534. farah Says:

    Hi
    @ moses…yeah we will moving to singapore in the first week of december…he has already accepted the offer of registrar then has to do AST which his HOD has promised to exempt it considering his experience…lets see…

    he will be getting around 7850SGD/month including the housing allowance…will it be sufficient for a couple to lead a decent lifestyle…:)

    Plz do help me in suggesting sum nice residential areas near MRT (pref.HDB)….

    Iam also planning to take up a job thr…I have done MSW & B.Ed…can anyone suggest me in this regard…shud I take up teaching job or social work? which wud be better thr? any help will be greatly appreciated…:)

    thanks


  535. Dr. Spandan Neogi Says:

    Qua: MBBS, PG Dip. Diabetology, Associate Fellow in Industrial Health
    Exp: 8 years
    How much to claim for a Senior House Officer’s OR other position ?

    Please suggest fruitfully. I have to apply soon or regret.


  536. 500k Says:

    ask for 500k a year. otherwise threaten you will not relocate.

    there are increasingly more diabetics in singapore. with all the very prosperous people crowding into this tiny island earning well and eating well, you will have many patients. your diabetology practice will do very well.


  537. Gasman Says:

    Dear All. Thanks for all the useful posts. Iam an anaesthetic consultant working in the United Kingdom. Iam looking at relocating to singapore. What would be a good starting pay for UK trained anaesthetic consultant. Do we need to negotiated the relocation expenses, school fees, medical insurance, etc?
    Thanks, Gasman


  538. to Depends Says:

    $250k per year for combined and mid 30s is not high at all, not even above average. Divided by 2 it’s only $120k at mid 30s? That’s actually below average in my circle.

    $400k to $600k combined for late 20s..I’d say is high. And I know a few Sg couples who fit into that profile. None are local grads and some are based overseas, in Dubai, HK, London.


  539. Gasman Says:

    exploring options,> which of the agencies did you use? for securing job in singapore.
    Gasman


  540. sm Says:

    from RACGP:http://www.racgp.org.au/media2010/4...

    The signing ceremony held at GP10 in Cairns between the RACGP and the College of Family Physicians Singapore (CFPS) demonstratedthe increased international recognition of the RACGP Fellowship.

    The signing ceremony recognised Fellowship of the College of Family Physicians Singapore (FCFPS) as equivalent to Fellowship of the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners (FRACGP). The CFPS joins the Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners, the College of Family Physicians of Canada, the Irish College of General Practitioners, the Hong Kong College of Family Physicians and the Academy of Family Physicians of Malaysia as another College, which offer FRACGP recognition.

    Both of our colleges have an established history in promoting and developing general practice as a profession in their countries and around the globe, and the RACGP is pleased to have made this important connection with the CFPS. We now look forward to acknowledging this historic agreement at the CFPS Convocation, to be held in Singapore in November.


  541. Andysarr3295 Says:

    Hi , what is the compensation for somebody with Board certification in Internal Medicine ,Pulmonary Disease ,Critical Care Medicine and Sleep Medicine ,Board certified also in transthoracic and transesophageal Echocardiography .All Boards and training acquired in the United States of America .Also Assistant Clinical Professsor in USA Medical School?


  542. advicer Says:

    Farah,
    the chances of AST exempt are very very rare unless your husband has lot of papers and is of international repute. I know of only one such person in whole Singapore! These exempt cases, are directly employed as a consultant.


  543. advicer Says:

    Farah,
    I really doubt that the HOD is capable of getting an exempt done and these could well be empty promises to launch you in to meet immediate manpower shortage and to be greeted with a sorry later for AST exempt.
    Do ask the HOD to give in writing about this issue , if he is authentic there should not be any problem giving in writing as he has PROMISED! I bet you will not get anything of this sort in writing.
    You can also search the JCST and SMC sites which clearly mentions about the rarity of AST exempt.


  544. advicer Says:

    Farah,
    To add, now onwards AST is going to be a seamless training that means you will be required to do five years of training in radiology out if which initial three years will be basic radiology training. Basic Radiology training means the three years of training after which one becomes eligible to sit radiology exams!
    Also, you will not be spending all of your time in cancer hospital , max will be six months and rest of your time will be spent in rotation in other hospitals.
    Remember, you will always be in conditional or temporary registration throughout.


  545. advicer Says:

    Farah,
    The salary mentioned is quite well for registrar position but you may find yourself in a hand to mouth situation after considering the expenses mentioned in my prior post. Also depends on number of kids.
    Do think carefully and enquire more before finally making a move. Bear in mind that if you cannot be exempted from AST and nor enrolled into AST, you can never become a consultant here and will be working as service reg throughout your stay in Singapore. But, the good thing is that you will brighten your chances to be consumed in handsomly paying and more progressive attitude other countries like Australia, New Zealand where you can gain a consultant position from the onset of your job .


  546. advicer Says:

    For rental and house search you can browse propertyguru site to get a feel of rentals.
    All the Best.


  547. Dr R S Kumar Says:

    What would be considered the best offer for Senior Consultant Anaesthetist and Intensivist with twenty years specialist experience. I mean the basic pay Thanks


  548. farah Says:

    Thanks advicer….
    :)


  549. drbrtsn Says:

    I’ve been reading through these comments with great interest as I am looking at Singapore as a very attractive place to live and work, for a variety of reasons. I am white, Anglo Saxon British born and trained and, quite frankly, don’t want to work in the UK because it is just so depressing! Life is about so many things, not just money and work. I have MRCOG and FRCOG but am a year short of general O&G training; I have worked as an IVF Consultant since 1986, first in the UK private sector, then in the Middle East (government hospital) from 2003 till now. Ideally, I’d like a job in O&G that will give me the recognised time to get recognition as a specialist but also give me continued work in IVF and Assisted Reproduction, where I have a lot of experience. Does anyone think that might be feasible in Singapore? I’m not that bothered about money, though of course I have bills to pay (an ex-wfe and a daughter in the UK!). Being single now, I’m pretty flexible, though, of course, I am 55 years young and there are those that might think I’m too old!


  550. donkiz Says:

    What is the salary of a orthopaedic surgeon under staff registrar scheme for foreign talent whose degree is not recog by SMC and JCST/SAB.


  551. doc Says:

    Depends on your years of experience

    AK2 Says:
    July 10th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
    hosp admin posted above the following:
    HO pay 2600
    MO pay 3500
    Reg pay 6000

    If you dont live in Singapore, still have housing allowance and call allowance. There is also AWS and bonus so it is great working in Singapore :)


  552. simhat Says:

    good news for UK/Irish/canadian/US trained doctors who are keen to work in australia – No more australian medical council exams are needed.Just need to be accessed via the Competent Authority Pathway.
    For more information, go to the Australian Medical Council website

    http://www.amc.org.au/index.php/img/ca

    all doctors are paid via award wages in the hospital system and so discrimination based on whereabouts you did your undergraduate training is irrelevant. No such thing as ‘traditional source’ versus ‘non traditional sources’


  553. Anjali Says:

    I have a MBBS degree from Armed forces medical college, Pune (india) and M.D. Physiology degree , also from AFMC, Pune. Both degrees are from Pune University and not from MUHS. Are they recognised in Singapore? I have a working experience of 20 years as ageneral practitioner but no teaching experience in Physiology except the three years of MD at AFMC. What all is to be done if I want to work in Singapore as a Locum Doctor(GP)? Can I get employment in any Medical college in Singapore? What all exams will I have to Qualify for the same? What is the monthly salary in Singapore dollars for GP Locum as well as physiology teacher in Singapore?


  554. Michael Says:

    @Anjali- write to SMC – http://www.smc.org.sg


  555. medrecruit Says:

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlo...

    Yup it is recognised :)

    http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/me...

    Interested applicants can send their applications to:
    Director
    Human Resources & Talent
    Development Division
    MOH Holdings Pte Ltd
    1 Maritime Square
    #11-25 HarbourFront Centre
    Singapore 099253
    Fax : (65) 6720 0980
    Email : [email protected]


  556. VIR Says:

    Hi
    My wife is a MBBS graduate from Sri Ramachandra medical college, Chennai, India. She has full registration with the General medical council in the United Kingdom( qualified to work in the UK ). She has not done any post graduate degree. Is it possible for her to apply for specialty training in Singapore?

    thanks


  557. Ya Says:

    Of course it’s possible. Singapore needs a lot more talented people from around the world. The natives simply suck and the excellent government knows, which is why it’s trying very hard to replace the natives with foreigners. Come quickly before the obedient natives wake up from their pampered slumber. I bet they won’t wake for the next 20 years.


  558. YaYa Says:

    Very obviously, Ya is a soreloser lol


  559. Papaya Says:

    He’s correct. The natives have bad genes. Case in point: all the top students in last year’s O level exams are foreign students.


  560. Michael Says:

    papaya – you mean the foreign students who come to Singapore because back home they can’t get such great educational facility ??? I rest my case :D


  561. Papaya Says:

    Yes, they’ve got better genes too. What they lack is opportunity. You rest your case.


  562. yaya papaya Says:

    Not surprising, the media here love to emphasize how “talented” the foreigners are. All part of the population and integration program.

    If we can read deeper, there are a lot more foreign students now, prob 20-30%.

    More importantly, the top singapore born students are all in the integrated program, Chinese High, RI, Nanyang girls, RGS. The best students don’t take O levels anymore.

    When A levels are out, percentage of foreign top students is likely to drop but they will still glamourize it anyway.


  563. Michael Says:

    papaya: you miss the point :)

    Singapore offers such facilities and is attractive to foreign students AS THEY CAN’T GET SUCH EXCELLENT STANDARDS BACK HOME THEY HAVE TO PAY THROUGH THEIR NOSE TO STUDY IN SINGAPORE ..

    Maybe you are on a one track mind and you can’t see my discourse .. No offense, If you are a doctor, I wonder how you will openly listen to other people’s arguements .. if you are not a doctor “THANK GOD”


  564. Papaya Says:

    Dr Michael, if you can’t tell, I’m one of those disillusioned cynics. And if you aren’t aware, many foreign students are here on SCHOLARSHIPS. The government dishes out free scholarships to them (I don’t know how many stay on to serve the mandatory 3 years and how many were caught not serving, but I am aware there are some who escaped unpunished and unannounced to the public), while natives here have to make do with “scholarships” that come with bonds or worse, “bursaries” that they have to fight tooth and nail for.

    If you had paid through your NOSE, I thank you on behalf of the natives here. But that also means you are well off to start with. Probably one of those who will say things like “get out of my elite uncaring face” kind of things.

    I’m not a doctor. You thank your god.


  565. WhatsThePoint Says:

    Whats the point of all this . Singapore has a few excellent students who are given scholarship. But the majority are not. Between this majority and the bright come the foreigners. These foreigners may or maynot be as good as the best in Singapore. Even if they are good, they mite be supported in Singapore but not necessarily at US/Europe universities which Singapore does for its own .

    The majority can do nothing but whine since they could not be in that elite bright locals. Also not, that these foreigners are not necessary the best in their country. India’s and China’s best still go to their top schools.

    Singapore needs talented people and hence they try to get from whatever source they can. Bigger countries dont have this problem. Either the majority is Unlucky and they just dont Get it.

    If ur considering good students as talents then how the the locals must be.


  566. WhatsThePoint Says:

    @Papaya

    Instead of complaining , why dont u look at the facts. I was a grad student on scholarship, so no loans and no bond.

    However, I hardly saw any Singaporean Grad students in NUS. Once they find jobs after undergrad, they dont want to study. Even though locals get higher scholarships.

    Later on, when they face competition from people with better experience or higher qualitifaction from India/China etc, they want protection.

    Is it only that govt showers scholarships on foreigners, or it bcus locals are truly unmotivated and not competitive enough.

    In fact this is a trend everywhere in developed countries. Locals take the EASIEST way out. They want lucrative n nice lives but they dont slog. While migrants SLOG. If locals SLOG, they will be better off than foreigners in their country.


  567. YaYa Says:

    Guys, why do we even care about what Ya or Payaya said? These guys are just sore and think that they are the best so lets ignore them. They can think or say whatever they want as long as it makes them happy. Shouldnt waste our precious time debating their nonsense.


  568. orange Says:

    nothing to say, just wanted to get a fruit in there.


  569. James Says:

    How much does a consultant radiologist/ interventional radiologist earn in average?


  570. ong lee ting Says:

    can i know seniors what is the salary for surgeon


  571. streats dr Says:

    wow … did u guys read yestrday’s streats ?? some doctors moonlight part time models outside.


  572. houseman Says:

    times are bad?


  573. ortho surgeon india Says:

    hi guys,
    great discussion going on here.
    i have a quary here. if some expert or knowledgable person can answer it i would be gratefull to him.
    i have recently got offer from one of the hospital from singapore as my college is from the recognised colleges by smc. but they said that they can offer me only junioe level job (not even registar). but surprisingly they are offering me s$8000 per month. from reading posts above i understsnd that if the position is of junior lvel than registar then my salary would have been somewhere around $3500. can someone explain it?
    also they have said that i will have to work in wards. i can go to OTs to see the surgeries but can not assist it. is it true? is really that hard and fast? i mean if i have good relation with my colleuges and HOD can they allow me to assist?
    also they said that they can not take me as registar as only MRCS holder is eligible for it. is it true?
    if i accept the offer i will be moving with my wife. she has basic medical degree which is not from recognised medical college by smc. can she work there as a GP or anything..just because she doesnt have to sit at home doing nothing?
    plz plz advise me about these things. i need to reply to their offer soon.
    thanks in advance.


  574. 8k too low Says:

    don’t you find 8k a little low? i think foreign doctors here deserve more, have a kind of “hardship allowance” because they have to go live in an unfamiliar environment. singapur need foreign doctors because most of their locals aren’t good enough to enter medical college or they are uninterested in saving lives. many of them are only interested in finance jobs, thinking it’s an easy way to make a lot of money.


  575. doracrates Says:

    ortho surgeon india
    how many years experience and what post grad qualification do you have?
    what is the official `post` that they offered you?I believe it is stated in your offer letter(ie.MO,senior MO,regsitrar,resident physician etc.)
    8k for single in late 20s is comfortable,but for a family ,I am doubtful.Does 8k include all the allowances?


  576. doracrates Says:

    Dear Drs,

    How much can a GP earn in Singapore?
    How much is the rate for locum?


  577. ortho surgeon india Says:

    @ doracrates and 8k too low,
    thank u very much for ur reply.
    I still to get offer letter but i suppose atleast on paper i will be MO. my qualification is DNB orthoapedics and I have 2yrs of post graduate experience of which one year of registrar and 1 yr of consultant experience. i also have done D’ortho (CPS) which is recognised by state medical council but not by MCI. if we count this post diploma experience then it is 5yrs.
    Yes, 8K includes all allowances.


  578. Zin Says:

    HI dude,pls let me know the role of GP with FRACGP and it’s pay in SG.


  579. sgdoc Says:

    http://www.salary.sg/2010/fresh-gp-...

    Gps can make 5 figure salary easily.
    Fresh drs can earn 10k so with FRACGP can earn much more.

    http://www.imc-healthcare.com/emplo...
    http://www.rafflesmedicalgroup.com/...
    http://www.healthwaymedical.com/con...


  580. kim Says:

    zin -to earn S$10k per month in sgp, be prepared to work 6 days (0800 hrs to 2000 hrs).
    if you choose to work in australia,u can hit that easily within 3.5 days (if you choose to work those punishing singapore hours), factoring SIPS/PIPS and doing GP management plans.
    u make the choice lah.


  581. specialist Says:

    or be a private specialist and charge a few 100k’s for surgeries, and more if your customer can afford it.


  582. Orthodoc Says:

    @ortho surgeon india
    dear sir,
    I have done CPS D.ORTHO after my mbbbs(muhs university).I would also like to work in singapore..can you guide me how n where to apply for such posts.
    and how much salary can i expect?
    thank you!


  583. Orthodoc Says:

    do we need give IELTS exam?..if yes how many bands are required?


  584. Michael Says:

    Orthodoc: Did you take time to read up the SMC site ??


  585. pampered Says:

    docs are so pampered nowadays


  586. ortho surgeon india Says:

    @ orthodoc
    please read up SMC site. it gives you lots of details. also plz read up SGH fellowship eligibility criteria.


  587. iloveworklifebalance Says:

    pampered in post 585: work life balance mah. drs, just like any other human beings deserve that.
    if you are not happy, go and see a witch dr to fix your problems .. ;)


  588. i want to be susan lim Says:

    i want to be susan lim !!


  589. Dr Khaw Bei Says:

    Based on the way Susan charge, other doctors will soon abuse the insurance plans and start charging exorbitant price and in turn create a spiral effect on the insurance premium. It’s time for the MOH to establish guidelines on Dr’s fees b4 things get out of hand since this nation does not have provide welfare benefit for its average income earners.


  590. Kao Boo Says:

    What’s wrong with charging high prices? This is a free market and we practise capitalism. Moreover it’s willing buyer willing seller. If ministers can get millions, doctors should also get millions. Lawyers, architects and engineers too. We all should start charging like Susan Lim. Let those who can afford it pay. Those who can’t, well, get out of my elite uncaring face.


  591. Bob Jacob Says:

    Looks Doctors pay is very less when compared to the cost of living in Singapore. MO SGD3500, out of 20% goes for CPF. On hand 2800. Its als taxable. Eventhough income tax is low, you my end pay aprox 200 per month. i.e net pay 2600 only. You will always have the anxiety to see the salary day, hoping that it would give some releif – but this axiety would never leave you as your salay would last only for a few days. Good Luck.


  592. poor singaporean Says:

    wow, so poor singaporeans earn so little


  593. changi Says:

    2 years ago I was offered a job as a MO by MOH.They offered me SGD 3500 +allowance.Last week when I was in a transit at Changi,I overheard a staff saying that even a Filipino earns SGD 2k working as a receptionist at the airport.Luckily I didn`t accept the offer.


  594. Fact Says:

    Of course foreigners make more. The government paints a picture that foreigners are badly needed to help grow the GDP pie and create jobs for the locals. Male citizens also have NS liabilities of up to a couple months a year, to the detriment of companies who hire them.

    Most citizens are cab drivers or cleaners in food courts. A minority exists in MNCs and they boast about their high pay in the forums here, painting a false picture that many citizens make 100k and more, when the likelihood is that PRs make up the bulk of high income earners here, else why didn’t the government break down income stats into citizens and PRs? Instead, almost all wage stats publicly available lump citizens and PRs together as ‘locals’. Give me the stats for citizens! And compare with PRs. I bet my last dollar that PRs make more money than citizens at all decile levels, especially the top deciles.


  595. aamir khan Says:

    hi,i am medical graduate from Aga khan university karachi,pakista.
    i want to apply for house officer post.
    so can any one please guide me in this regard.
    is there any particular month of the year where one can apply for house officer post?


  596. december Says:

    december will be a good month. everyone is relaxed and most will be on vacation.


  597. lost Says:

    Hi,this may not be the right forum but because there is an active discussion going on i would like to know if anyone has been asked by SMC to take up the nus yllsom exam as qualifying exam for recognition of foreign graduates.Can anyone give any feedback about these exams and if anyone is going to take this september?I have been trying to search for info but unable to get it…like format of the exam.books to read etc…hope someone can help.Thanks for posting out of topic.


  598. lost Says:

    oops typo…i meant sorry for posting out of topic


  599. Localdr Says:

    Hey just to let everyone know, I have seen a couple of local drs willing to pay about 90k/ year just to quit the mohh! Some have about 2-3 years of bond left so thats about 180-270k!

    Just imagine: would you work for a compay who’s working conditions are so “good” enough that people are willing to pay money just to leave earlier?

    Reasons cited are almost universally:
    Poor admin
    Poor pay
    Long hours

    *Of late there’s a new trend of: cannot get residency as possible reason for leaving… But that’s unsubstantiated… We see how that particular reason fairs as a possible push from public service….

    Go figure…


  600. pampered dr Says:

    think these docs are too overpaid … to pay to break bonds.


  601. Dr. Kishore Kumar Misra Says:

    Hello Sir,
    I am Dr. Kishore Kumar Misra,a medical officer with MBBS qualification with 23yrs of working experience, currently working in Ministry of health, Malaysia posted at department Orthopedic, Hospital Sultan Ismail, Johor Bahru. I am interested to work in Ministry of Health, Singapore but I came to know that the institute I passed out is not listed among the recognised institute in the Singapore medical council. I would like to know whether I can apply for job in singapore or not and whether I am eligible for medical officer job at the age of 50yrs or not.
    Waiting for your kind reply.

    Thanking you.

    With regards
    Dr. Kishore


  602. maria Says:

    HI
    I am a General practitioner in the United Kingdom,qualified a year ago.Unfortunately my Basic medical degree from India (mbbs) is not from a recognised university and neither is mrcgp from UK is recognised.I need to therefore do the Qualifying exam.
    1)can anyone explain a bit about the QE -is it a difficult exam with lot of focus on theory? is the viva aspect difficult?
    2)after QE,I will get conditional registration- what job will I do-registrar or MO ?will it be on the wards or as a GP(family practice)?
    will be grateful if someone can answer these queries please.


  603. Not doctor Says:

    (1) QE is quite easy if you have been practicing and keeping up.
    (2) You will most probably work in a polyclinic.


  604. sien Says:

    maria,

    Why not stay back in UK?Your income will be reduced substantially in Singapore.You should only go to Singapore if you can practise there as a consultant.Otherwise it is not worthwhile.


  605. pls come Says:

    Maria

    Pls come to singapore. The uk pound will only go down & taxation can only increase, while the reverse is true for singapore. Otherwise how can singapore cope to take care of the increase in population and foreign talents ?


  606. sien Says:

    MOs in Singapore bring home less than SGD4k/mth.That`s less then engineers and even insurances salesmen.go to Singapore only as a consultant when you can negotiate for a better deal.


  607. pls come Says:

    dont listen to sien gibberish. those are for freshie grad pay. Once you are in your second year, pay will be more and work gets better. in meantime, negotiate for the best deal, to come to singapore to take care of our very important local and foreign talents.


  608. lost Says:

    Hey Maria…i am also taking the QE….when are you taking it?From what i understand…its basically the final year exam of the local MBBS students.I believe if you get through the exam u join the local students in the HO/MO match…so u start as a house officer i.e internship for 1 yr then medical officer for one year…before your conditional registration is confirmed.Confirmation is dependent on reports by your supervisor and your collegues.You can find this info in the Singapore medical council website.


  609. anemon Says:

    I have read comments like world is a screwed up place because doctors (physicians) are paid less than an investment banker, reasoning that physicians saves lives and the investment banker does not. Well, world is not a fare place, we know that. Besides, it is difficult to compare the pays like that. For example, Physicians have much greater job security than an investment banker. In addition, yes the physicians are one of the 1st line people who intervene the patients but it is not them who saves lives. There are logistics, medicine (found by scientists), equipments (developed by engineers) etc which are necessary to save lives. Has anyone of you thank to the scientist who has discovered the medicine that saved your life, and who probably spent most of his life with a much lower pay than physicians, in an under appreciated job which required long years of education, working long hours in the lab? or You are the one who just thanks only to Physicians and Hospital staff? Think about it people.


  610. lost Says:

    HI maria…or anyone who is taking the qualifying examination pls contact at [email protected]…maybe we can share pointers for the exam…thanks


  611. jack Says:

    Dear friends

    I am 45 yrs old physician, NHS consultant in UK and has 5 years of experience as a consultant with FRCP etc etc in UK.
    I came to uk after completion of my postgraduate degree in india MD medicine in 1998 and then worked in different capacities and trained in medicine & subspeciality before acheiving CCT & then consultant post.
    I was hoping some of you would help me out with some of my queries !

    what is the correct salary to ask?
    what would be my level…ie consultant or senior consultant?


  612. to jack Says:

    what makes you consider moving from UK to SG? isn’t UK a much better place than SG?


  613. James Perumal Says:

    Hi Guys, what is the time process the hospitals take to shortlist you and contact you for a job? Iam working in UK ( Consultant Anaesthetist) and looking to get to singapore in the next 6 months.


  614. James Perumal Says:

    And what are the typical work hours and salary for a consultant? iam amazed that there is no info on this.


  615. J Says:

    Hi Jack, i think you are better off starting as a consultant and then moving to senior consultant level. i think typically you need to be a consultant for 5 yesrs before you can be in a senior level. in my understanding, ( hoping that you have a bullet proof CV), you are looking at 270-320k as a bare minimum. if you are offered senior consultant, you are laughing. ( easily 320+)…no hardcore data to back my statements. but that is the general impression i get speaking to the recruitment consultants… good luck… you better try and get a good deal….bcos be sure….you will be sucked out for every penny you are worth.. so have fun and good luck…by the way what is your specialisation. MRCP is an ocean.


  616. James Perumal Says:

    Hi Jack, i think you are better off starting as a consultant and then moving to senior consultant level. i think typically you need to be a consultant for 5 yesrs before you can be in a senior level. in my understanding, ( hoping that you have a bullet proof CV), you are looking at 270-320k as a bare minimum. if you are offered senior consultant, you are laughing. ( easily 320+)…no hardcore data to back my statements. but that is the general impression i get speaking to the recruitment consultants… good luck… you better try and get a good deal….bcos be sure….you will be worked out for every penny you are worth.. so have fun and good luck…by the way what is your specialisation. MRCP is an ocean.


  617. jack Says:

    thanks j/james
    My skype interview is over & sng and asked me what salary i expected ?
    My agent had said 250,000 was minimum.
    i didnt know what to say so i asked sng to quote me a salary based on my qlfications etc.
    I await to hear from them.
    Well i think ur figures are more realistic & makes sense.
    I will keep forum updated
    regards
    regards


  618. Michael Says:

    Hi Jack

    am just curious .. who is this ‘agent’ you refer to ?

    I never know that foreign doctors could reap in 250K PA ..

    Do enlighten us ..


  619. more Indian docs needed Says:

    because sg did not produce enough medicine grads in recent years due to poor planning at policy level. lots of smart students who aspire to be docs couldn’t get into NUS medicien due to quota restriction, so it’s not a lack of talent. meanwhile, indian docs should take full advantage of the opportunity.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum...


  620. jack Says:

    thanks michael,

    Agent = who introduced me to the hospital.

    i am not sure if mike read james`s note above.
    do u disagree with him?

    what sort of salary do consultants get in ur view?
    regards


  621. Michael Says:

    Hi Jack,

    I am still interested to find out the agent :)

    Salary – without full SMC approval, easily strike out one digit out of the Ks you have mentioned .. or even lesser ..

    That is from a few known people who secured conditional registration in Govt Hospital, and Not FRCS/MRCP

    Do look up the NHG / Singhealth websites ..


  622. jack Says:

    sorry michael

    I cant give agents name & yes i am FRCP working in the NHS, UK

    i am looking to relocate either to middleeast or singapore ie…closer to india

    regards


  623. randomguy Says:

    hi,

    may i know what is the approx. salary of a MO in Singapore, with bonuses and and other benefits? and what is the REAL working hours of an MO? Dempsey, slave of medicine and the others have not specified the supposedly horrible hours of an MO.

    thanks. :)


  624. James Perumal Says:

    Jack, or anyone else let me know, how long does it take to hear from the hospitals if they are interested or not? Its been a good 4 weeks and not heard from the hospitals or agencies.


  625. Michael Says:

    James: considering the high 6 figures you mentioned .. I am surprised that there was no contact ..

    As from what I know, those who are in the low 6 figure or end 5 figure get called within 2 to 3 weeks, and atleast an acknowledgement ..


  626. Isabelle Says:

    I am working as a pediatrician in US(MD,FAAP) after completing my residency there.I have 3 yrs experience after residency in US.I am planning to move to Singapore.What position should I look for and what salary I can expect.Also,if I could get some recruiters contact details,that would be great.


  627. Not doctor Says:

    Will be too low compared to US. Taxes are low here though.


  628. Why Says:

    Why would any US-trained doctor wanna come here? Unless it’s the for american hospital (what’s it called now?).


  629. mun yee Says:

    hello. If I’ve graduated and done my housemanship in malaysia. Is it possible for me to get a job in singapore?
    Approx how much will be the pay? And how’s the working condition and working hours?


  630. Bersih2.0 Says:

    mun yee,
    With all due respect,having completed only your housmanship,you are years away from being in a position to negotiate your pay.Only specialists,esp. surgical ones,have the privillage to negotiate.Others,esp. the junior doctors have no choice but to be slaves of the system.The only way out is to become a GP.
    Working condition is about the same in SIngapore as it is in Malaysia.The exchange rate maybe 2.4X but you end up paying more for rental,food etc.Also,if you are already used to driving your own car and cannot do without it,be prepared to suffer in Singapore unless you are ready to fork out more than RM100k for a second hand car.


  631. mun yee Says:

    Bersih2.0,

    I am just wondering if what was said earlier about being a slave and having a low pay is true. Also, I just want to get a rough estimation about the pay so that i will be able to support my own living expenses as well as my family’s.

    And also i would like to know most importantly, will i be able to get a job at singapore?? I don’t mind taking the public transport as i am very satisfied with the convenient way to travel around in Singapore.

    Are there any postgraduate program for medicine in Singapore?


  632. Bersih 2.0 Says:

    mun yee,

    Don`t worry,you will earn enough to be able to pay your bills.Junior MO pay starts from SGD 4k plus a little on call allowance(but remember on call rates come to SGD10/hr if you do the calculation).

    Whether you can come to Singapore or not depends on which uni you grad from.

    Be prepared to wwait for more than 2 years,if you are lucky then maybe you can secure a training post.

    Public transport can never be compared to your own wheels.You have to walk to and fro the station even on rainy days or under the scorching sun.Rooms adjacent to the stations are too expensive for low eaners like MO.Hours are wasted on waiting for the ride.During peak hours or wee hours the situation gets worse.

    Think about it…..


  633. mun yee Says:

    Bersih 2.0,
    seriously, transport is not a problem.

    Could u give some examples of unis that are recognized? What if the uni i’m studying is not recognized? Any alternatives?

    So meaning there are already enough doctors and will have to wait??


  634. sgdr Says:

    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlo...

    1. Faculty of Medicine, Universiti Malaya (Kuala
    Lumpur) Malaysia MB BS 2007

    2. Faculty of Medicine, Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur)
    Doktor Perubatan 2007

    http://www.asiaone.com/News/Educati...

    KUALA LUMPUR: Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia has reported the highest number of brain drain this year, with about 15 per cent of its top medical and health graduates leaving the country before completing their housemanship.

    They left for Singapore after receiving job offers that paid S$6,000 a month compared with RM3,000 (S$1,285) locally, UKM vice-chancellor Prof Tan Sri Dr Sharifah Hapsah Syed Hasan Shahabudin said yesterday.

    Starting pay for HO from Malaysia is $6000 :)


  635. Weird Says:

    am a UK citizen, a cardiothoracic trainee, with Full GMC registration and obviously my intercollegiate MRCS. My operative skills and training at year 3 training level is far superior to trainees from singapore who have completed their AST in singapore, as I have met many singapore post AST doctors in UK, and how we got to train them. I am quite appaled to the discrimination shown by the medical council of singapore to give UK doctors full registraion, when they already have full registraion in UK and their training standards are better than singapore consultants with 10-15yrs of surgical experience post qualification. I was thinking of doing my AST, if the same can be offered as a continuation of my UK training so I don’t waste years and post FRCS(CTh), can work towards my CCT and do a quick fellowship in Transplant and Heart failure surgery.
    Can anyone advice, as my perannum salary is £80,000(roughly SG$155,000), plus I can claim all my course expenses and travel for the same etc..,
    Can anyone who is aware of CT training in sg pls give me details. I feel this foreign tag quite discriminatory, which I have not experienced even in UK towards any foreign doctors although am British.


  636. commoner sgean Says:

    Stay in your country of origin please, Weird. You are not welcomed in Singapore. We have enough of FT doctors who are incompetent, deprive our young Singaporeans their dreams of becoming doctors, don’t understand our old folks, molest fellow colleagues, etc.


  637. hello Says:

    To commoner sgean
    think u are wrong. From Weird, sounds like the singaporean doctors, which is so highly hyped up in the singapore media, like so many other singapore stories, are really the incompetent ones.


  638. To hello Says:

    Do you also include our ministers with intergalactical salaries in your list of incompetent people?

    We should welcome ministers from foreign countries to take over some of the local ones here. I like Tony Blair and David Cameron. I think their combined salary is less than a junior minister here. And they can speak so well, unlike some of our ministers who can’t speak English nor Mandarin properly.


  639. Robert Says:

    Would be curious about what psychiatrists in private practice probably would be able to make? May it be as psychiatrists or child psychiatrists. I heart of about S$500,0000 a year possible/reasonable? Sounds pretty high to me. Would transform into a consultation fee of about S$400 – 500 per hour. Is that chargeable in singapore?
    Thanks
    robert


  640. GP wannabe Says:

    How much can a GP expect to bring home every month?(50hrs/week)


  641. ex-GP Says:

    20k a month as a locum.


  642. GP wannabe Says:

    ex-GP

    That works out to be like SGD 100/hr?? That is more than the pay of a junior consultant!!


  643. ex-GP Says:

    yup, but for a consultant-to-be, the sky’s the limit. a GP remains a GP.


  644. actually Says:

    actually that’s for locum. actual GPs usually earn more.


  645. GP wannabe Says:

    ex-GP,

    If the work of GP is so financially rewarding,why did you quit?


  646. ex-GP Says:

    i’m running my family business now.

    @actually – how much do actual GPs earn? i previously heard acquaintances say they barely make 10k running their own clinics, but one or two boasted making up to 50k.


  647. monster Says:

    Hello, i am a malaysian gp, graduated from NUS a couple of decades ago, but i didn’t do my housemanship in Singapore, something i have regretted ever since. Well, to cut to the chase, life’s travails and twists and turns presently led me to seriously consider moving to singapore permanently. I wouldn’t go into the details of how i reached my decision, cos some of you here are terribly touchy about any and everything, :-) , and what i want are honest, considered opinions, not skewed, angry advice.
    I am reasonably well off as i have a reasonably well practice, netting me about SGD 35 to 40k per month. In addition, i have invested fairly savvily, so i can expect to buy a reasonable apartment and car without any encumbrances to start life in singapore, and have savings for my old age, provided i don’t live too long. Haha.
    But i would also like to carry on working as a doctor and make enough for a comfortable life’s daily expenses.
    Obviously at my age, i do not intend to do night calls, and would be happy to work outpatient or in adminstration.
    Hence i know and expect a pay cut, sigh, well you don’t expect something for free, but i hope it will not be too radical a haircut, and i would really pray that i do not have to go through the HO/MO thingey to get registrable.
    Thanking any advice in advance, and if some of you wanna flame me, also proceed. I have a great sense of humour. Cheers


  648. sg gp Says:

    @monster locum as gp for 10k/month. obviously not as much as your 40k practice in my.


  649. monster Says:

    Thanks, sg gp. I think 10k is fair for just clinical work, minus capital outlay and administrative headaches of setting up a clinic, plus you can choose to go off at a drop of a hat.

    Do you know whether a KE VII MBBS without a day’s work in singapore qualifies me to work as a doctor immediately?

    Of course i’m in possession of full registration in malaysia, and currently record is unblemished.

    Also, is there a body that arranges for locum in Singapore that i should know of?

    Sorry with all these questions, and thanking everyone in advance.


  650. michael Says:

    monster: Singapore Medical Council is your starting point .. SMC ..www.smc.org.sg

    Cheers


  651. gp wannabe Says:

    monster:How old are you?

    Making SGD 40k/mth as a GP in MALAYSIA is really something.You can`t even reaech that in Singapore.I wonder how is that possible in Malaysa.Unless if monster is running a CHAIN of clinics.


  652. not a doc Says:

    If you see 100 patients a day, charging each a low consultation fee of $20, work 30 days a month, you’ll take in $60k a month. After rent, salaries, costs and expenses, you’ll still get more than $40k. Why is it not possible?


  653. monster Says:

    Hi wannabe, yes, i have 3 clinics, and am working solely at 1, whilst the other 2 had permanent employed doctors. Well, am in my mid 40′s, and no, this sort of pay is not out of the norm in malaysia. Of course i have to put up with a very 3rd world sort of lifestyle. Thus the underlying motive to go to Singapore.


  654. ignoramus Says:

    @monster why do you have to “put up with a very 3rd world sort of lifestyle” when you are making so much money? do you also mind sharing when did you start making SGD 40k/mth? in your mid-thirties?


  655. monster Says:

    Well, ignoramus, like they say, you have got to be here to experience the thrills of the nonexistent culture and arts scene, iffy infrastructure and utilities supply, increasing rancour in politics and race, a very very warped enforcement by local and ministry enforcement.
    Of course i understand that i have to put up with it cos the going was good, but since i have been on this path from 30 years of age, i can now afford to kick back, and do work in a safe regulated environment, and enjoy a 1st world environment.
    Of course, there are other pull factors for me in singapore, but those are personal.


  656. michael Says:

    Ignoramus: did you read correctly ? he is whining about Malaysia, and you took it that he is whining about Singapore .. or did I miss something ??

    PS: Monster: your sort of writing will be the real ammon of the day, for those guys who whine that Singapore is the worst place in the world, to start a fresh keyboard battle campaign :D :D no kidding ..


  657. ignoramus Says:

    @michael I understood what he wrote perfectly. it’s you who need to read properly. i was just wondering: if michael knows his way, with his level of income, he surely can afford a good lifestyle anywhere in the world.


  658. michael Says:

    my bad .. then .. sorry ..


  659. monster Says:

    Woah, @michael. Pop a xanax n chill. Good u fess up n apologise to ignoramus. Thanks.
    I do not intend to start a debate about the merits of singapore society, and i’m not whining about malaysia.
    Personally, i think singapore is great, and malaysia is great for some others, just not me.
    I really think wherever you are, there will be attendant problems, its just that the time has come for me to walk away from malaysia.
    And i have choices, australia, UK, and the usual suspects.
    But singapore is close to my heart, and in a way, i owe a societal debt to Her for educating a poor gormless soul, and enabling him to achieve a modicum of success in life, a thing which his own country denied him.
    This is the beacon that singapore is for the millions of diaspora of us left rootless in a disenfranchised world, ignored by own nation and too far removed to go back to where everyone else wishes we will.
    Winki wink.


  660. monster Says:

    On a more flippant mode, …. for they could not love you, but still your love is true, and when no hope was left on that starry starry night, you amde a move to singapore….
    Haha, sorry its saturday, and the glenmorangie is getting to me.


  661. hey Says:

    seems like the wrong forum guys for this, why not go to TemasekReview for government bashing? leave this forum for salary talk instead!


  662. jack Says:

    dear james perumal & others

    i had written on this forum regarding salary scale etc & is still being negotiated.
    This is what was offered

    could somebody tell me what is the catch in this?

    I cant understand the subheadings fixed service allowance,flexible service component etc.
    I have not agreed to this salary structure & still negotiating
    My feeling is i am eligible for senior consultant status & pressing for that range to join
    would welcome ur opinions & comments
    thanking in advance

    Base Salary $ 9,800.00
    Monthly Fixed Service Allowance $ 2,500.00
    Monthly Flexible Service Component $ 3,700.00
    Rental/Housing Subsidy $ 2,000.00
    Total per month $ 1 8,000.00
    Total per year $ 2 16,000.00
    Annual Wage Supplement(paid in december) $ 9,800.00
    Sub Total $ 2 25,800.00
    Variable Bonus(paid in two terms in a year) $ 3 4,300.00
    First Year Total Salary $ 2 60,100.00 TRUE
    Total First Year Remuneration $ 2 60,100.00 Note: Bonuses may vary depending on performance and economic climate


  663. michael Says:

    in Singapore terms, pay has to have to components, are per govt recommendation:

    Fixed and variable

    Fixed, is fixed, and variable, can be reduced or adjusted, if the employer/organisation is having business impact due to x, y or z .. sort of giving the employer some leverage during economic crisis, like the SARS and the Bird flu problems.

    The main thing is, though such a recommendation to have a ‘variable component’ was sort of an advisory for manufacturing oriented and service oriented ‘companies’ and not for govt sector, though the latter has along, rarely does touching the variable component happen in Singapore .. and if touched, the replacement pay is always covered.

    so, in reality, if your pay if half variable, half fixed, the employer can stop the variable, if they need to tide over economic crunches, and when that happens, it happens to affect everybody in the country, and company wide, and it will not be you … the employer can ‘chop’ off half your pay to tide over the times ..

    The rest you could figure out I guess. :) :)

    Cheers


  664. reuben Says:

    jack – what is your speciality?
    try australia/NZ?. the working hours and renumerations over there rocks (not 2 sure about nz, but i can testify about australia);). do speak to the other drs in this forum first before you sign your life away


  665. sudeep Says:

    hello sir
    am dr sudeep mbbs, from india..how much salary i may get in singapore and what is the living cost over there when compare to india and also whether i should go any licensing exam to practice over there.
    thank you.


  666. James Perumal Says:

    Hi Jack, this is good. You have not mentioned relocation expenses ( normally provided by the hospital)
    This is what iam getting

    -3000 sgd for home contents ( air freight)
    -travel expenses for whole family
    - settling in allowance 2000 sgd
    - one time visit is also paid for

    ….btw make sure you have the medical insurance cover clearly mentioned – normally 90% for yourself and 70% for dependants.

    the salary itself look ok.( you should be looking at an other 10-15K for your position…..but i gather from others that it is difficult to negotiate. What are the hours of work? are you getting paid more for extra hours? Have you discussed this??

    the service allowance and component are called the professional fees. the annual wage allowance and variable bonus are very much standard for all hospitals in singapore.

    This is my understanding after 3 years of research
    FOR UK QUALIFIED
    ASS CONS – 180-210K
    CONS – 220-240K
    SENIOR CONS – 250-300K

    By all means, yours is a very good pay ( on the lower average for senior consultant)..but hey you know what you want.
    let me know if you want to have a chat. i can provide my skype id to your email id.
    Good luck mate. Iam moving to sing in the first quarter. Job offer provided and accepted!

    Cheers and best wishes,
    James Perumal


  667. James Perumal Says:

    Jack, following up to my comment on 616, the above statement is based on very conservative figures!


  668. Vic Marimuttu Says:

    Hi James,
    Would love to hear about your move to sing. I am in the last year of a UK higher trainee programme in child and adolescent psychiatry and was hoping to apply to sing when eligible-CCT next august. Could I ask which agency you used, if any? Are the salaries you quoted based on a particular specialty or generalised?
    BW, Vic


  669. not sure Says:

    Dear all,

    Can anyone of you tell me the salary of resident physician? What will be the different for public vs private hospital in term of salary and job function? I believe the job function is just to cover ward and see some patient in clinic. How about on call?

    Regards
    Thank


  670. sgdr Says:

    http://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/press...

    The pay is pegged to the pay of GP which earns 10k a month.But since you do call, you get much more. In general drs are well paid in Singapore.

    Beyond the 5 years of initial service, the Ministry will benchmark MOs’ salaries to private sector general practitioners in the same age group. The majority of MOs in the public sector can thus expect to earn around the 50th to 60th percentile of private sector earnings. The better performers would similarly be paid the upper end of private sector salaries. Doctors performing more onerous night duties, will receive an additional allowance.


  671. James Perumal Says:

    Hi Marimuthu, the salaries are generalised. If you are specialised retinal surgeon your pay will be a lot higher!!. I for sure will let you know about the move.
    Cheers, James Perumal


  672. sgdr is wrong Says:

    http://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/press...
    The link provided is more than a decade old. Don’t contribute if you are going to post misleading information. Did you pull your other figures out of the thin air too?


  673. sgdr Says:

    The link provided is more than a decade old but the formula is revealed. Since GP gets 10K now so the salary of a resident physician should be pegged to that of a GP. Pls provide figures to prove me wrong.
    MOH has yet to release any new pay revision so the formula still follows 2000.


  674. jack Says:

    hi james perumal

    sorry my email goes to spam hence dosent catch up when u guys write

    i havent accepted singapore offer & still negotiating.

    my major problem is the fact i will be supervised by somebody for another 2 years which is totally crap.

    self respect also has a price & unfortunately the pay dosent meet that

    while the australians appear to give a better deal & i agree with some of my colleauges on this forum paywise australia might be better.
    not only that the uk cct is now considered at par with australian degree & no further supervision or exams necessary. downside is not much difference between UK & australia since both are far away from india.

    i met with a few singaporean professors at lisbon recently when i went for a conference and raised this issue of supervision with them.

    The reason they have kept the supervision is apparently otherwise the foreign graduates would immediately jump ship and start private practise.

    regards


  675. know_already Says:

    yes, now u know what & why Ng Eng Hen said is true.

    Singapore medical docs, like susan lim, are earning tons and doing alot less work, with no / protected competition – only “worked half as much and earn(ed) five times more when I was in the private sector.”


  676. au reader Says:

    Do you think your Singaporean readers would be interested in these tools, which help them see how much doctors can earn in Australia?

    1. as a GP http://gpra.org.au/earnings-calculator
    2. as a Locum (many specialties) http://beatmedical.com/paycalculator

    Maybe they will find this interesting/helpful


  677. sgdr Says:

    Hi au reader,
    You may want to include the tax rate as well

    http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/c...

    $180,001 and over
    $54,550 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000.

    Assuming a doc in Australia earns A20k a month, he will have to pay 81550 tax. His take home pay is now reduced to A13k.

    The bottom line is if you want to earn a lot by working hard, come to sg.

    If you dont mind the high taxes, go to australia.


  678. not sure Says:

    hi, I heard about the term ‘Cannot Go Home’, any comment about the hospital? I also heard about salary of resident physician now is SD 8000 or less, and it is less than GP (not included housing allowance). Any comment? How much is the housing allowance SGH is paying now?

    Thank


  679. sgdr Says:

    http://www.jobstreet.com.sg/jobs/20...

    Resident MO is paid 10-12k
    so please dont anyhow accuse me of pulling figures from thin air!


  680. already_know Says:

    it is already widely known singapore docs are overpaid & underwork.

    what do u want ?


  681. sgdr is really moh exec Says:

    lol, sgdr is probably a moh recruiter in disguise. it is well-known that singapore has been desperate for “FTs” since no self-respecting us/uk/aust-trained singaporean drs is returning home to become subject to the relatively low pay and toxic working environment of sg hospitals.

    thus jack, despite all of moh posturing they really can’t lose you, so don’t budge on your contract negotiation.


  682. talkcock-slayer Says:

    Errr everyone knows the “resident MO” pay cited by sgdr is the pay given by private healthcare groups like Parkway Shenton/Healthway to GP to work in their HDB clinics. The doctors bonded to public healthcare should not expect the same salary, since they are paying back time.

    Going by your line of reason, the PSC scholars who are serving their bond in Gov ministry should be paid $150k straight out of graduating from Princeton, because this is what their schoolmates get when they join McKinsey, or get $1 mill a year as investment banker in Goldman Sachs, because this is what their schoolmates once again get, if unbonded out of graduating from Princeton.

    Why don’t you serve up your 5 years first, and then go join Healthway or something? By then you will be 31, and that 10k a month Healthway salary is really peanuts for that age.

    The difference between you and them, is that PSC sscholars are routinely in a system that absorbs tthem in the gov Admin Service, which although ddoesn’t pay them $1 mill a year out of graduation, pays them much better at 28 than what you wwill earn at 31 when you finally join Healthway.

    Anyway, few people who can be investment bankers want to be, because i-bankers work 7 days a week, 18 hours a day and go on to burn out after 2 years then go on to the back office of a bank for the rest of their careers.

    Just more general knowledge for you since I’m sure you don’t know all this.


  683. Michael Says:

    And I wonder why a simple search for jobs at govt hospital and those advertised in the Straits times, shows Physician jobs at various govt hospitals at 4,000 $ or thereabouts, or so … and consultants at 7,000 $ or so …

    Where do these 5 figure jobs exist in Govt hospitals ???


  684. In_the_know Says:

    Talkcock-slayer and Michael are correct. The salary of doctors is nothing to shout about. People who want to pursue this as a career had better be doing it because of a passion to “heal the sick”.

    It’s a generally thankless job which does not pay. The people who think it does are low income earners.

    I spoke to a 36 year old senior consultant in a government hospital who revealed his salary was S$150k a year. That is below average salary for that age, oh, that guy is a M’sian who means he did not serve 2 yrs NS, which means his Singaporean counterpart makes that at 38.

    Admin Service (generally PSC Scholars) payscale is comparable to management consulting at each level of seniority, both the low (associate S$100k to $120k) and the peak (S$1 mil). Bain and BCG pay better than McKinsey at the associate and analyst levels.

    Investment bankers are the only ones who can make the top bracket of $800k in 3 years (some even hit $1mill, but not that common). Unfortunately there is no free lunch in the world. An estimated 7-8 in 10 who become i-bankers out of school drop out by the 3rd year due to underperformance or burning out.

    There is a small percentage of specialists in private practice who hit pay dirt, but they form a miniscule percentage of every batch of medicine graduates, compared to the other three routes mentioned above, where the cut-off selection is done at an infancy stage where the cream of the crop is well…creamed and ushered through the hallowed gates of these professions at a young age.

    It’s easy getting into med school. Too many of them every year. So no big deal. Which is why most of them fade into oblivion.


  685. In_the_know Says:

    And it seems local doctors fail comprehension in primary school. A Malaysian-born doctor above genuflected to Singapore with gratefulness for giving him or her to make a living in a meritocratic and fair environment which he or she said he or she did not receive in his or her home country.

    And some retard here said if want to complain about the sg government go to temasek review.


  686. yup Says:

    now the michael knows the 5 figures exist in govt hospitals.


  687. Suan Says:

    Hi Zin – there is a catch though – if you were trained in Aust and obtained your FRACGP (Assuming you did you went to Med School there and did your internship there) – you will still be required to be bonded for 2 years in a “restructured health service” ie. polyclinic. Now, the hours here are nowhere to what’s on offer in Australia. It’s a 6 day week here and if your polyclinic/A&E is a busy one – you’ll see on average about 30-50 patients a day. Some places “round robin” their patient load – so on a busy day, and if you’re slow – you may have to take short cuts in pt management. Not ideal, but unfortunately it happens.
    Also, no doubt tax here is lower than Aust – your net pay will be more in Aust even after tax. In Aust, there is also the chance to locum in ED if you have an interest in Emergency Medicine, but here with 6 days of intense shiftwork – not many will want to sacrifice their rest day for such a thing.
    Even for ED trainees in Aust – most will have at least 2-3 days off post night shift to earn a side income locuming or surgical assisting LEGALLY. Or else, you could use that time to play with your kids or take them to the beach. Can’t say the same for those here though.
    I myself was trained in Aust and it’s certainly a lot different here. In Aust you get to spend more time with patients as the load is alot less, whereas over here – the workload is easily triple or quadruple what you’ll be used to.
    If you ask me do I regret coming back to Singapore – I dunno – if it’s not for family reasons – then I would definetely have stayed on in Aust.


  688. Anna Says:

    Hi Suan
    Could I ask you regarding how you started to work in Singapore as I dont think the SMC recognises FRACGP.Did you do the qualifying exam (QE) or do you know anybody who did it?
    My situation is that my basic medical degree is not from a college that is recognised by SMC and my post-grad MRCGP(UK) is not recognised either.I have 2 years experience as family physician in UK. My only route to work in Singapore (due to family reasons) would be to do the Q.E,I think-as far as I can see.
    Was hoping to get some information about this exam and whether it is toughto pass it after being away from med school for about 8 years.


  689. to yup Says:

    The $150k annual income includes bonuses, so his basic salary may or may not be 5 figures at 36 years old. Very poorly paid, these doctors. DON’T do medicine if money is important to you.


  690. doc-in-distress Says:

    Hi! I’m currently facing a crossroad in my career and would really appreciate some good advice from any doctors working in Sg now.(suan- I assume ur working in SG now);)

    Some background: I did my MBBS and internship in the UK. Now back to Malaysia as an MO as I was summoned back by the government to serve my 10-year bond.(PSD scholarship).I also managed to pass Part 1 MRCOG while in the UK.

    I plan to go to Sg after I have completed my specialization and obtained my full membership, MRCOG/MRCP in 5-6 years time perhaps? by breaking my scholarship bond. Reasons being: more equal opportunity, more opportunity for research, higher standard of living, better environment/more competitive for children to grow up in , better health care etc

    I understand that Sg is now attracting many foreign graduate doctors inc many Malaysians overseas and local graduates. I am also deciding between (a)continuing to do O&G (need another 4 yrs O&G experience to take Part2 MRCOG) or (b) Go into Dermatology ( better lifestyle, lower litigation rate , family friendly) in which I have to take MRCP in Malaysia and do basic medical training just like in Sg.

    I understand that Dermatology is an extremely competitve field in SG (however not so in Malaysia thus would be quite easy for me to get in) and O&G is not a popular choice anymore-low birth rate in SG and high litigation rate.

    My queries: (1) – What is going to happen in 5-6 years time, does SG need more doctors?
    (2)- To complicate things , with the new Residency Programme what would I go into Sg as with MRCP/MRCOG? MO? Still need years of training and posts are not guaranteed?
    (3) Do I have a better prospect in SG in 5-6 years time as an O&G /Derm doctor?

    Thanks. I need some enlightenment:)


  691. i want to be susan lim Says:

    who says singapore docs are poorly paid ? Singapore docs eg susan lim & ng eng hen are showing us the way !


  692. sgdoc Says:

    (1)What is going to happen in 5-6 years time, does SG need more doctors?

    SG will need more doctors as we are opening two new hospitals (NTFGH and SKH) so we will need more doctors but having said that, we will also have more local drs and Singaporeans studying overseas coming back to Sg.

    (2)- To complicate things , with the new Residency Programme what would I go into Sg as with MRCP/MRCOG? MO? Still need years of training and posts are not guaranteed?

    You need to apply for residency. http://www.physician.mohh.com.sg/re...
    You may have missed the application this year.

    (3) Do I have a better prospect in SG in 5-6 years time as an O&G /Derm doctor?

    Will your specialty training be recognised?
    http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/MungoBlo...

    Answer: NO since specialists trained in Malaysia are not recognised BUT you can email smc for clarification :)


  693. Violet Lee Says:

    To: 690 Doc-in-distress:
    Looks like u have already a 10-yr plan mapped out & that’s very good. Doctors are definitely in high demand. With aging population, what do u think will be demand? Anything from pyschologist to dermatologists!
    Do your best, God will do the rest!
    Hi-5!


  694. doc-in-distress Says:

    Violet Lee: Thanks for your encouragement! haha..I always believe chance favors preparation. But I totally agree with you – we always try our best no matter how bleak the situation is (something that all doctors would be concerned about at the moment re the future of doctoring.

    ALl the best to you goo and God bless! :)


  695. To Doc-in-distress Says:

    I don’t think you should be breaking your scholarship bond, much less as a dr. Will not look too well during interview.

    We know our neighbour up north desperately need to keep its better-trained drs to combat the surfeit of *crap* (excuse my french) MBBSs churned out by the thousands of diploma mills every year.


  696. doc-in-distress Says:

    Yes, I am starting to think of staying put after all considering there is a severe shortage of specialists up north, those thousands churned out every year by random universities would probably never make it to specialists grade anyway- the reason they do medicine is because of money and they take short cut in life- admissions criteria to those universities are extremely loose and they probably never fail their students. They will probably I predict go into Aesthetic Medicine or become a GP and earn good living in rural towns where there are no specialists.

    But of course the reason for me having a back up plan to go to SG in the future is because of other factors- children ‘s education etc

    Our government althought quite desperate to retain talents in the country and came out with many visions and plans- never have anything done in practise and implementations is extremely poor. Although they increase doctors salary- they are still low HO compared to SG- HO S$1450 take home, MO – S$2500-3000
    take home.

    Specialists training and overseas training opportunities are still race and ethicnicity selective. And the working environment – imagine working with doctors graduating from a university u have never heard of. And they are thousands of them its getting disgusting. I dont mean to insult but doctors unlike other professions need good senior colleagues to train and guide them as its part of the training. Working with wrong people= bad training= bad doctor.


  697. missing local SG student Says:

    To all Singaporeans overseas, please notify all friends of a missing Singaporean Duke-Nus medical student in Greece. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missi...

    If he remain missing, the PAP will be worried for next 2016 election by the news that the native Singaporean population excluding new citizens/PRs in Duke-Nus medical school has decreased by 50%, and they must import more AT and abnn doctors (hopefully with real doctor qualifications) again.


  698. sunblock Says:

    Private doctors earn more than reported because of sleazy tax returns but on the other hand they are also paying high rentals and the patient base is decreasing as competition is getting keen from too many doctors out there. Only need to drop into Mt E and Gleneagles and see the difference in the waitng rooms now as compared to 5-10 years ago. I hear that the numbers are falling even more with recessions and economic woes in the horizon.

    Public sector is more secure and you can take your vacations without having to worry that your patients will move over to you competitors and moreover, you still get your salary. CMEs are paid for and you get free all expenses paid for 6 -12 months to get upgraded.

    I think that SG public service is a better choice after having practiced in both for many years and also in the USA…


  699. Tech Says:

    Does anyone know what the regular working hours (eg. 8 to 6 etc) and on call commitments (1 in 5 etc) are for a consultant radiologist in Singapore?


  700. reuben Says:

    sgdr is trying to paint a very rosy picture about working in singapore. he is free to say whatever he wants as his pay master will expect him to do it, just like an obedient dog.

    i suggest to people who are keen to work in sgp to look at the posts from head down and make a decision yourself. speak to drs who have worked and who are also working in sgp.

    for singaporeans/malaysians trained overseas, i do suggest that you guys come back after you have done your post grad exams, and not come back as a junior for you will be trampled on by the system.

    if you are after big bucks (even after tax – sg doc is trying to paint a gloom picture of the pay here after tax and it is a load of crap – for i am making more than a physician here in singapore and i am just a country gp in rural victoria) and a work life balance, do consider Australia.
    by the way, UK/irish and american grads need NOT sit for the australian medical council exam.

    NUS grads who has passed Masters of family medicine can work here without the AMC exams too. :)


  701. nebuer Says:

    Dear reuben

    I think your news are old news. Singapore has since moved towards a residency system so even if you have done your post grad exams, it wont be recognised towards specialist training.

    For those who can get into specialist training in their countries (UK, US, Australia, NZ and Canada), you can always come back after you have completed your specialist training.

    But for those who have yet to enter specialist training, coming to Singapore is an option as Singapore believes in meritocracy and foreign trained doctors are not disadvantaged when applying for residency.


  702. reuben Says:

    nebuer aka sg doc
    thanks for the ‘update’. of course we all know about the residency programme.

    to make it simple, if someone has qualified as a specialist overseas, will he/she still have to come back as an MO? young drs in uk/oz/nz will rather do their training in these countries.

    we all know that sg belives in meritocracy! yes!!!

    australia//uk believes in their version of meritocracy, if not, the australian/rish/uk medical schools will be doing away with exams. meritocracy is alive … and it sgp doesn’t have a trademark to it ….. come on, u are no steve jobs ;)

    you will have to work very hard in order to attract the young singaporean /malaysian drs training in nz/australia. u better convince them hard.BTW, australia will rather employ their own graduates rather than overseas trained drs.

    OPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS…. u have your backup from beijing drs …. aiyoh, then why waste your time coming down to australia/nz to recruit. save your mmoney for your end of your christmas functions lah ;)


  703. ya ya Says:

    Ya agree, i have been here for one yr and i am going back to my home country next month.


  704. sgdoc Says:

    http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/n...

    Hi reuben
    Your news are so old.

    THOUSANDS of international medical students are questioning their future in Australia as increased graduate numbers put the squeeze on intern places.

    Meanwhile, state training bodies are scrambling to meet what student representatives describe as an “ethical obligation”.

    Australian Medical Students’ Association (AMSA) president Robert Marshall said there was a real possibility some international students, who are not guaranteed intern placements like Australian residents, would miss out on places for 2012.

    “There is so much pressure on the system as the number of graduates has increased so dramatically,” Mr Marshall said.

    He said many of the 2535 international students currently enrolled had accepted places at Australian universities on the assumption that they would go on to work in Australia, and they may find that their Australian qualification did not make them eligible for an internship in their home country.

    Medical Deans Australia New Zealand president Professor Justin Beilby said he expected graduate numbers and intern places would “balance out” for 2012, but urgent work was needed so future graduates could complete training in Australia.

    University of NSW international student representative Ria Ko said the possibility there would be a shortage of intern places in coming years was creating a lot of anxiety and extra pressure for international students approaching graduation.

    “I have talked to a lot of fifth- and sixth-year international students who feel betrayed and angry,” she said.

    Ms Ko, who never planned to complete her training outside Australia, is helping to organise ‘plan B’ information nights for international students featuring speakers from the US, Singapore and New Zealand to explore options for completing their internships in those countries.

    Share:


  705. goodness Says:

    goodness, sgdr, if you want more good docs to come to sg, just pay more. if your health minister can be paid top dollars (in fact he’s the highest paid in the universe), why not the docs in sg?


  706. reuben Says:

    sgdoc – hahahaha
    of course we all know those news which is so passe.

    sad to say, aussies are just as kiasu/kiasi as their singaporean counterparts. year after year, international students have been warned that there are no internship placements (started when i was a medical student in the late 90s). it certainly created a fair bit of anxiety amongst the international student community. but then the state and federal government is able to cough up internship placements! ;) . aussies like to cry wolf but then at the end of the day, those placements will miraculously pop up from somewhere.

    yes it is hard getting a placement in sydney/melbourne or any big cities. provided young drs are keen to go rural, getting a job is never a problem. :)

    australia is a huge country with lots of hospitals. australia is not uk or NZ. at the moment there is a huge shortage of doctors in the rural areas. :)

    well said goodness! :)


  707. ssendoog Says:

    Hi Goodness

    Our health minister believes that more money is not the only reason public sector doctors are leaving for private practice.

    MOH has also introduced pre-employment grant that cover up to 60% of the remaining years of tuition fees, capped at $40,000 per year up to a maximum grant of $80,000 in return for 3 or 4 years of service agreement.

    This is equivalent to 13k pay rise per year or 20k pay rise per year.


  708. illanshamuel Says:

    let our young doctors make their own choices. be it coming back to work in sgp or to stay on working overseas.
    all doctors who are thinking of coming to work here in sgp should go through this thread and speak to drs who have worked in the sgp public health system.
    my suggestion is to have a trial and decide. if you don’t like it, you can always return to australia/nz/uk.


  709. City Boy Says:

    Hmm,
    I was simply wondering why people would wanna go all the way to RURAL Australia,living in a `kampung`with the cows when you have a choice of working in a metropolitan like Singapore.Australia may be a better choice if you are talking about Sydney or Melbourne.But RURAL Australia?No thanks.


  710. illanshamuel Says:

    opps. seems like someone has mutated to become cityboy now … no worries lah;)
    people make choices where they want to work. if they are desperate to stay in oz to do their internship (if city placements are over subscribed), they will have to bite the bullet and go to a rural area to serve their ‘NS’. or they can make the choice of working in sgp facing those FON clients/puki face consultants/unsustainable wages/long hours/lack of sleep/siong siong kerja.

    rural australia? australia is a big country. some rural towns are not too far from sydney/melbourne. u can always fly out to sydney/melbourne for the weekend ;) ,

    people come to the rural area for a variety of reasons. it is a well known fact that GPs only need to work in the rural area for a few years work there to secure dwellings in brand name suburbs in the city, ie st kildas/artarmon/neutral bay . btw, GPs in rural towns/working class suburbs do get paid more than their city counterparts (400-500k per annum if they are keen to be on call for the rural hospitals).

    so depends on what you want in life.
    we should not put people’s choices down.

    there are people who choose to come back to work in sgp as they are assured of training positions in Eye/dermatology/ENT in view of their blue blood back grounds and i have no problems with that. so be it lah. some people are jealous, but i can’t be bothered lah. specialist training – di mana yang masa??????

    anyway, cityboy is free to join me in Mamak in haymarket tomorrow for my prata/teh terik at 1pm ;) . btw, thanks for the treat in winter 2011 during your recruitment drive – the free food was nice … sorry for being such a cheapskate ;) .


  711. Jonathan Says:

    Is it then advisable to return to work in SG after graduating overseas?


  712. Jackie Says:

    Yes can someone advise the working hours of a consultant in singapore? Of course junior doctors work hard, its a given in most countries, but is life much better as a consultant?


  713. reuben Says:

    jonathan: do read the upper threads in this forum. speak to your seniors who are currently working as juniors in the singapore healthcare system.
    make an indepedent decision.
    if i were u, i will do my internship overseas first (to secure your registration – even if you are thrown into the outback) and then come back to sg to have a trial. if it doesn’t work out, u can always return overseas.
    r u a uk or australian/irish grad?

    jackie – medical or surgical consultant?
    i have worked in sgp before and the comments above are quite real. it was a good, short exposure for i have picked up a number of skills in general medicine/GS / anaesthesia (helps me with my current job in **** victoria), though it was not 100% pleasant, with those abusive superiors/clients. at least, u get to experience what sh** is like before one can appreciate the good conditions that we enjoy in the aussie healthcare system)
    but u should come back and experience it yourself. good luck!


  714. Jonathan Says:

    Reuben: I did have a gander through the comments, but like most of the advice I’ve got, there’s little info on the whole residency thing, and since we’re not back home, it’s difficult to know exactly what it’s all about – the MOHH website is clear about what it is, but I don’t know what it’s like in terms of actual working conditions.

    I’m a UK grad, therefore guaranteed internship in the UK, but is it worth losing out on a potential residency spot if we don’t know anybody (apart from seniors) when we come back?

    Thanks for all your help and kindness, it’s really refreshing, particularly with the recruitment propaganda thrown in.


  715. reuben Says:

    jonathan – the residency programme is a new thing. it depends on what you want to do, and you have to make the call of where you want to be based.:)
    if you do your elective postings in sgp, u can have a better idea of the actual working conditions on the ground and compare notes with what the MOHH recruiters have to say and make an independent decision yourself. if you want to do a laku posting like dermatology, u have to observe how many people have gone in and how many people have qualified for exit interviews as registrars.

    if it is hard to stay on in the UK after internship and u are dying to migrate to another western country, try australia (no AMC exams are needed for you) or nz (VERY easy to get in).

    i have friends who have gone back to sg as they come from rich backgrounds and they have a big inheiritance waiting for them, and the basic hospital pay for them is just pocket money for partying/shopping. so it is different for different people.


  716. Jackie Says:

    Reuben – wondering about radiology, especially interventional radiology. What are the on call frequencies like and regular working hours / days in Sg ?


  717. reuben Says:

    jackie – ask our friendly sgdoc and he will be able to advise u on that.
    are u an NUS grad based in sgp or r u an overseas grad in uk?
    the working hours of radiology will be more pleasant, compared to say surgery/medicine.


  718. sgdoc Says:

    Hi Jackie

    Here are some info from my classmate Dr Gerald Tan.
    http://www.geraldtan.com/radio/inde...

    You can email him if you want to find out more.


  719. Suan Says:

    Wow, Haven’t been back in a month and we’ve got some great responses, ignoring the usual trolls for the establishment.
    What I have found is that the MOHH reps in their annual Aust/NZ visits do not give a true sense of what working in SG is really like, but hey – it’s their job to do just that ! Make no mistake about that.

    I think the best way to go about that is to speak to someone you know who is currently/already working in Singapore – preferably a friend or a relative who’s been there or done that, failing which – apply for an elective to a SG hospital as a student and get a flavour of what you intend to pursue. If you’ve missed the boat and now an intern/RMO, Please please please, do yourself a favour and complete your internship in Aust and then apply for an MO position with MOHH – you might be in a hurry to get home, miss your family etc. but at least give yourself a chance to be able to go back to Aust should you decide otherwise later on.

    To be honest, for the past month, I have been seriously considering returning to Aust for the lifestyle ( but that’s just me) and I can say THANK GOD I made the decision to complete my Internship and further training in Aust, as I still have my full AHPRA registration which enables me to go back.

    But do give SG a chance, here I’ve learnt how too develop a “thick skin”, work efficiently and deal with all sorts of people, both nice and unsavoury alike. These are experiences and life lessons you could bring back to Aust/NZ.


  720. reuben Says:

    suan – good luck in whatever u do. u must be either a medical student doing an elective posting or doing your residency in sgp.
    if you want to come back to australia, do so quickly so that you can secure the training position of your choice. eye/ENT/dermatology are hard to get into in both sgp and oz. but australia is a big place and there are plenty of jobs outside the metro areas, if you are not too fussy.
    anyway the thriving private practices are those located in the working class areas and also in the country, not in the inner city. u can easily NOT have to sub specialise as a phsycian /paediatrician/surgeon in rural areas (and also sparing yourself from the boring journal clubs and politics of big city hospitals).


  721. observer Says:

    what i observe here is an apparent brain drain from sgp, which is a risk that the government must be aware of since it started emphasizing on “foreign talent” – which in turn is an implicit insult to local citizens and a risk of a “foreign talent” bubble burst.

    over-reliance on foreigners and mistreatment of citizens is just bad. they are only realizing this just yesterday. too late. but better late than never.


  722. Michael Says:

    observer: did you also know that, with the kind of pay for junior doctors / MO / HO, not many foreign doctors are here to make money ? Most are here just to get the experience and hoot foot it back home, and hang Singapore as an experience

    Maybe you should hang out in Hospitals and talk to foreign doctors, the type you perceive as stealing jobs of locals … (i.e. the lower end .. )

    I know that much and more ..


  723. observer Says:

    exactly my point. the government and hospitals would rather groom these foreign doctors so they can go back home and “hang Singapore as an experience”, rather than groom our born-and-bred-in-Singapore local boys and local gals.

    same argument goes for the millions of dollars spent on scholarships and allowances for Asean “scholars” to crowd out the university places here, so much so that our children have to spent our hard earned money to study in AU and UK.

    some feel betrayed and the good ones will leave one by one, while foreign imports go up by the day. what an irony!

    i remember one MP used the word “betrayed” in parliament and got hoot by a senior minister who’s gone on to lose huge vote share to a young unknown.


  724. Michael Says:

    observer: you are missing the point. Getting trainee / junior doctors is the norm, it is not like they are stealing the jobs of Singaporeans.

    The foreign doctors are only filling the gaps that the local unis are not filling .. and only on temporary basis.

    Your children spending hard earned money in UK / AU ? no .. they are in AU/UK because the parents can afford and want them to study there ..

    And if I am not mistaken, with the many partnership that Singapore hospitals are doing regionally, they are actually growing the intake, by bringing in overseas patients, who pay, and are not looked after at the cost of neglecting the local patients. Before you say that the overseas patients are killing local healthcare .. they are actually helping the local doctors expand their experience, and this is on top of the Singapore Govt assistance for local doctors to do paid stints overseas.

    Maybe you know something that you are griping about, or you are plainly trying to evoke a troll.

    Good day to you


  725. observer Says:

    yes of course, “foreigners create jobs” for singaporeans. we must always be appreciative of them. kowtow to them even.

    just found this:
    http://i43.tinypic.com/10x4hur.jpg

    it’s on the front page of yesterday’s printed Straits Times. speaks volume on how much discrimination there is. it’s not easy for the government to admit there is such discrimination against citizens, and admit on the front page too. the situation must be quite bad.

    except for hospitals of course.


  726. Michael Says:

    @observer – kowtow to foreigners ? Well, seems you are really vengeful ..

    Maybe you should air your thoughts in a political forum ..


  727. reuben Says:

    michael – u are missing the point
    “And if I am not mistaken, with the many partnership that Singapore hospitals are doing regionally, they are actually growing the intake, by bringing in overseas patients, who pay, and are not looked after at the cost of neglecting the local patients. Before you say that the overseas patients are killing local healthcare .. they are actually helping the local doctors expand their experience, and this is on top of the Singapore Govt assistance for local doctors to do paid stints overseas.”

    when drs have to spend time looking after these private patients from overseas, they will have less time for the local subsidised patients. more resources could be diverted from these extra ‘paying’ patients to our singaporean patients.

    observer is entitled to his opinions. vengeful? someone is being too defensive :) . what a lot of shambolic rabbles from someone who works in the upper echelons of office


  728. Michael Says:

    rueben: just because somebody dare to question some silly statement, you place them as somebody in the upper echelons of the office ? Ha ha ..

    Me ? Upper Echelon ? no sir .. I ain’t even in a 5 figure monthly salary bracket ..

    I took offense to Observer’s suggestion that Singaporeans will have to kow tow to foreigners .. yah, not for anything else ..

    I am starting to doubt if you are a Singaporean .. for a start.

    When you go to a doctor, in the hospital, there is no special treatment for subsidized vs non-subsidized patients, in case you are also hinting that subsidized patients are treated bad.


  729. Michael onprozac Says:

    It is true that Michael does not work in the “upper echelons of office”… He is most likely just a exec in MOHH recruitment dept.

    And thats the saddest part.


  730. MIchael Says:

    @Michael onprozac : wrong again. no relation to MOHH Holdings too .. and neither am I paid by MOHH/MOH or whoever you are trying to imply .. and I am not a govt appointed drone to fight anything negative ..

    And you are one bunch of babies quick to accuse those who don’t toe your line and dare to dispute your point of view

    Have fun.


  731. get real Says:

    foreign docs are not here to make money ? Most are here just to get the experience and hoot foot it back home, and hang Singapore as an experience ?

    oh, get real, michael
    who cares a hoot about singapore ?

    With the pay depression caused by foreigners in singapore, singapore has been attracting 3rd class dubious foreign rejects, to achieve the 6.5 million dream.

    These rejects who would never achieve your lowly sg pay back in their home countries.


  732. Dr. Jiji Thomas Varghese Says:

    Sir, i have done my MBBS medical degree from india and i have 3 years experience in medical icu and cardiology icu. then i have done pg diploma in ENT from india itself. at present im working in cooperative medical college in india(kerala) as an ENT specialist. what are my job oppurtunities in singapore.


  733. Jonathan Says:

    Dr. Varghese: You should take a look at the SMC website for the list of registrable medical degrees. If yours isn’t on the list, you should make direct enquiries with SMC. Hope that helps.

    Also, does anyone know what the pros and cons for aus vs sg are in terms of working as a doctor?

    What is the procedure like for applying to aus? I mean, they list various pathways, but there’s no concrete info telling you what happens when you get there.


  734. Michael Says:

    Jonathon: a better source would be search for career@singhealth or career@nhg, as the hospitals handle the SMC temp registration process, and do the needful.

    Oh, again, I am not affiliated to either of them


  735. welcome Says:

    michael, glad to see u have climb out from your hole in the ground. welcome back !


  736. pangchi Says:

    Pang Chi Finance Limited (PGC) is the listed financial services arm of the Pang Chi Group Singapore. Established in the 1960s, PGC is, today, Singapore’s largest finance company with a network of 28 branches island-wide, serving customers from all walks of life.

    Ever true to the commitment to serve the man-in-the-street, PGC has continued to focus its efforts to create innovative products and enhance services that complement existing ones to cater to its customers’ variety of needs. This has been made all the more so this year, when the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) granted HLF approval to expand its scope of financial services in July 2005.
    Services:
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    Shares
    SMEs
    Wealth Management
    Corporate Finance

    Contact
    Email: [email protected]


  737. Dr Nan Soe Says:

    Sir, i have done my MBBS medical degree from Myanmar.I’ve check the website for enquiry for registered doctor for Singapore.But under list of basic medical qualification,our country medical school is not included…I have got my IELTS marks of 7 in all skills and now try for MRCP exam….can i know that what qualification should i fill up to get work in Singapore??


  738. Ranjit Kapoor Says:

    Hi Dr Nan Soe,
    Singapore is very competitive which you cannot eve faced in UK or US. Better go and work in England where much demand in Emg and Geriatrics.


  739. friendkid Says:

    Hi Dr Nan Soe,
    better go Auzi lah. I’m also from myanmar.


  740. kilo Says:

    http://sg.news.yahoo.com/nuh-probes...

    to my brothers and sisters studying medicine overseas – if you intend to come back and work here, u better be sure what shit hole u are coming back for. :)


  741. Red Says:

    Dearest Administrator

    I am General Practitioner of Medicine in the Philippines with 2 years of Clinical Experience in the Hospital.
    I would like to apply as a Locum (Physician Reliever) in Singapore.
    What can you recommend?

    thank you


  742. teobh Says:

    Wow, as a Singaporean retiree seeing this thread for the first time it saddens me that we are sending our best and brightest sons and daughters to become doctors overseas with the possibility of not ever returning to Singapore, and in their place foreigners with dubious qualifications and language skills hoping to strike it rich(er) in Singapore (and forgetting the medical ethos to serve the needy in their own country)?
    I am grateful that my children did not study medicine, seeing the sorry state it has become for young Singaporeans.


  743. reuben Says:

    teobh – give these foreign doctors a fair chance. i am sure there are good ones amongst them too. they are here to make a living.

    given the culture of allowing medical admin like sgdr/”prof”/”michael” to name doctors in the press even before investigations results are finally out/allowing patients and families to abuse health care providers like no chenghu/silencing critics/threatening junior drs who dare to speak out in this forum/ who dare to challenge the system will only encourage singaporean drs and nurses who are currently pursuing their courses overseas to stay behind and not contribute to our health care system.

    anyway the free makan in melbourne/sydney/london in the last 2 years (compliments of sgdog and his bosses) had been sedap ;) – terima kasih.


  744. Michael Says:

    Rueben: get a freaking life

    I am not attached to any hospital or any spurious recruiting agency – which I can’t say the same for sgdr or prof ..

    now stop bad mouthing and being paranoid and get a life ..

    And stay away from the bottle. Just because it is a public forum doesn’t give you the right to assume this and that and no, that’s not a threat because I am not retarded like you to throw things out of your pram

    Go and play with your toys now.

    And Kilo: don’t conjure up evil images of doctors being punished only in Singapore

    You mean you don’t have such controls elsewhere ? Oh wait, guess who manages and administers SMC ? You wouldn’t know, as I suspect, like Rueben, you too are a troll with nothing positive to add other than complaining that your safety cocoon is shrinking

    Well, if you complain that foreign doctors are invading, then what about Singapore doctors invading US, Australia, UK et al ? Do the doctors feel so much phobia in those countries ?

    Get a life.

    And stop polluting the thread with imaginary suggestions


  745. reuben Says:

    michael has forgotten to take his mood stabilisers and is now spewing trash on this forum. low life like him is always threatening junior drs from airing their views here.

    kilo has a point. unfortunately the truth always hurts.

    our singaporean sisters and brothers who are now studying in australia/uk/us will make up their minds. as for you, please do not interfere with their minds during your sia sway recruitment seminars in sydney/melbourne, though i must say that the makan that you had provided was sedap sia;). i will be there next year (again) for a free makan sponsored by your bosses ;) . oops
    singaporean drs are welcomed with open arms in australia and nz -)


  746. Michael Says:

    me ? threaten you ? errr .. I think you have an identity crisis ..

    Never mind .. call me a low life ? Well well .. no wonder you ran away with that kind of venom and vengeance, since you couldn’t make it in your own homeland .. LOL

    Especially since you are hell bent on insisting that any Singaporean must work overseas ..

    Have fun, if that kind of rhetoric gets you high and a hard one ..

    You just proved why you are busy bickering about stuff not even worth talking about

    PS: show me when and where I THREATENED ANYBODY ? Unless you are still hallucinating ..

    Oh, I forgot: I met enough internet and armchair bullies like you who dare not admit that they are wrong and instead resort to name calling and insinuating stuff that they did .. Have fun man. Have fun.


  747. reuben Says:

    michael –
    “Well well .. no wonder you ran away with that kind of venom and vengeance, since you couldn’t make it in your own homeland .. LOL
    Especially since you are hell bent on insisting that any Singaporean must work overseas ..
    Have fun, if that kind of rhetoric gets you high and a hard one ..
    You just proved why you are busy bickering about stuff not even worth talking about”

    you have forgotten your lithium.no worries, your thoughts are racing, with flights of ideas and gone so completely off the tangent.
    please help yourself to more lithium will you;).

    have i insisted that all singaporean have to work overseas? siao kia.

    just enlighten me, with the NUH case, the investigations results are not even published in the SMC website, but why are those 2 poor junior drs named in that case? seem like in sgp, the health care institutions are only too happy to cater to customers’ Full of nonsense behaviour.

    why are these customers and their familess allowed to bully nurses and doctors with impunity?

    It is impossible to know exactly how much damage it does to your sia sway bosses efforts to hoodwink the medical overseas students who are studying in australia/nz/uk during your sia sway recruitment seminars, but no doubt some damage is being done.


  748. reuben Says:

    week after a successful heart surgery at NUH, The Straits Times (ST) reported that 74-year-old Heng Choon Noi was operated on by heart and lung surgeon Lee Chuen Neng on 11 October after which she was shifted from the intensive care unit to a general, and then a surgical ward over the week.

    The paper reported her children’s complaints that her condition worsened as the weekend passed, and two doctors who were on duty had only taken a blood sample from her to check for infections.

    One of the doctors involved, Dr Tay Jia Sheng, a trainee in cardiothoracic (heart and lung) surgery, later resigned from NUH on a 24-hour notice, while Dr Ng Hui Chong, who was on duty at the time, had after the incident chosen not to train in surgery, as stated in a letter from the hospital addressed to Heng’s family.

    Heng’s second son, financial consultant Patrick Chan, reportedly alleged that his mother’s death was caused by “negligence and serious lapse of due diligence by the doctors at the ward”.

    His older brother Tony, a real estate agent, told ST that over the weekend following Heng’s surgery, she developed a fever, her heart rate increased rapidly and she showed lower blood pressure. The family accompanied her that Sunday night, repeatedly requesting a doctor’s attention between 1am and 6am on Monday, but said no one showed up to assist them.

    Dr Tay only took a sample of her blood, telling them that results would take a couple of days to process, Patrick told the paper.

    The letter from NUH’s director of clinical services of the Cardiac, Thoracic and Vascular Surgery department, assistant professor Ooi Oon Cheong, detailed further explanation about what had happened.

    It said that Dr Tay had previously examined Heng, ascertaining that she was in a stable condition, and did not look acutely ill, while Dr Ng had made an unsuccessful attempt to draw blood from Heng, although she had checked on her on Sunday night and at 6am on Monday, also finding her to be stable, reported ST.

    The letter also said that Dr Ng instructed the nurses to administer paracetamol, apply cold compresses and continue with Heng’s existing antibiotics to bring the fever she was suffering from down.

    Dr Ooi also acknowledged and apologised for “shortcomings in communication”, adding, “Our doctors and nursing staff could have been more sensitive to your needs,” the broadsheet reported.

    ST also reported that an autopsy done by senior forensic pathologist Teo Eng Swee found that Heng’s heart valve operation was successful, reporting a correctly-positioned artificial heart valve. Pending further investigation, Dr Teo stated Heng’s cause of death to be cardio-respiratory failure.

    Confirming the incident and the investigation, a spokesperson from Singapore’s National University Heart Centre told Yahoo! Singapore in a statement that a full and transparent account will be provided to Heng’s family upon the completion of investigations.

    “If we find any inadequacies or lapses in our processes, we will put them right. We owe this to our patients,” the spokesperson said, declining further comment on the incident while citing the ongoing probe.


  749. Suan Says:

    Hi reuben, I find this whole story as reported in the ST just don’t add up. Why were the two juniors quickly sacrificed when the investigation is concluded. Is there an inquest? or the bosses are happy to stay out of the glaring limelight while the heat is on?

    Just like the multiple CREAM cases most of us get on a monthly basis, again the Admin are as always more than happy to indulge patients on their whims and fancies – and hopefully get their money back at the same time (which is always the primary endpoint)

    Anyway, got to prepare for my phone interview with NSW Health. Let’s hope there is some justice for all those involved in the NUH case…especially the 2 juniors.


  750. reuben Says:

    suan – not too sure if you are in speciality training or gp training, but good luck with the NSW health interview and i wish you the best in your future endeavours. at least, you have got one foot in australia now.

    for those juniors out there: one should be able to make the call to explore other avenues when you have been bypassed for acceptance into advanced speciality training. singaporean drs are very well regarded here in australia and nz. do keep an open mind during these recruitment seminars in sgp and be ready to compare deals from different GP employees, as there are good and dodgy ones everywhere.


  751. localjuniordr Says:

    Hi all.

    am a local grad , and junior doctor in the system.

    would like to give a snapshot of the working conditions from the ground. it may be biased, as it is my own personal view, but i will try to be as accurate as possible. I am not here to quarrel or find fault with anyone or the system, i just want to provide an accurate reflection of a junior doctor’s working life.

    1. Pay
    - Housemen (or PGY 1/Resident 1) pay was around $2.5 to 2.8K, before cpf etc. ( i have heard that there has been a recent increase, but am unsure of the figures) each call is $100 on weekdays, $150 on weekends. Weekend calls usually start from around 11 am to 8 am the next day (doctors who come back to round on weekends, ie around 7 am to 12 noon, but are NOT on call, do so without being paid OT.) The weekend call pay for a HO adds up to around $6-7 an hour, depending on whether you count the call as starting from 8 m or 11 am. Meal allowance is around $4.50 per meal if one is on call
    - MO starting pay is around 3.5-3.7K Call pay is roughly double that of HO. Hence weekend call pay rate is around $12-14 an hr for MOs.
    - for local drs from nus, school fees add up to a total of around $90,000, together with a bond of 6 years. Interest kicks in sometime after Housemanship ends. Its is difficult to pay off the loan without help.

    Calls
    - these are very variable and are specialty dependent.
    - for the more generic specialties like General surgery and General medicine, these are usually very busy.
    - initially for the Houseman, he may have difficulty finding time to eat meals or go to toilet
    - after awhile, most Housemen get used to it and are able to time manage such that they can find time to eat and go toilet
    - generally sleep is a luxury. As a houseman, i generally slept less than 30 mins to an hour for each call. did not sleep for most calls in General medicine
    - showering during a call is a luxury that cannot be taken for granted.
    - depending on department, these may be better for MOs
    - For specialties such as ENT and Eye, generally they are able to eat, shower, and sleep more than 3 hours a night. Sometimes, they can even sleep 6-8 hours at night. But also not guranteed
    - Note –> certain departments have implemented a night float system which utilizes a separate night team of doctors. This is very good, but requires enough manpower to sustain

    3. Morale
    - depends on department and senior staff
    - generally, fairly low amongst junior drs, because of fatigue
    - generally most junior drs start off with an altruistic, self sacrificing attitude.
    - however, this is worn down by sheer no. of working hrs and responsibility
    - some become very jaded after a few years in the system
    - some drs work every day in a month, because of shortages in the department. my previous MO in General Surgery once worked for 10 weeks straight without a day off.
    - when pt and family are difficult and have high expectations, or start abusing staff, sending complaint letters, many junior staff have mentioned that they felt like quitting medicine.
    - many junior staff experience symptoms of depression due to work and lack of social life
    - however, sometimes when patients show gratitude, it really makes the day of the junior doctor.

    Conditions for junior Doctors have improved since the past. However, the general population has become more educated and hence much more demanding resulting in new forms of stressors for junior doctors. Pay for Medical Officers has been stagnant for past few years. A perpetual shortage of junior Drs has led to many feeling overworked and unappreciated. This problem may be compounded with the planned opening of 2 new major hospitals in a few years time.


  752. John Says:

    Can anyone tell me what is the difference between Associate Consultant, Consultant and Senior Consultants? Do they all practice independently? I am in the UK where we only have Consultants.


  753. hr Says:

    Hi John

    After passing the specialist exam, you become an assoicate consultant. After few years, you become consultants and then after few more years you become senior consultants.

    Pls contact us if you are keen to join us :)

    http://www.nhg.com.sg/nhg_03_associ...
    Associate Consultant / Consultant

    Associate Consultants and Consultants are Specialists who have completed Basic & Advanced Specialist Training. Besides being responsible for patient care, Consultants are senior doctors who are expected to provide leadership to all levels of staff, including teaching and training.

    Eligibility Criteria
    To be eligible for the Associate Consultant/Consultant position, applicants must satisfy the following conditions:

    must be accredited as a Specialist by the Specialist Accreditation Board, Ministry of Health.
    must be granted medical registration by the Singapore Medical Council (SMC)
    must be granted an Employment Pass to work in Singapore
    (applicable to non-Singaporean/ non-Singapore PR)
    must possess the relevant years of experience


  754. James perumal Says:

    John, iam a consultant in uk, moving to sing as a consultant year 1. Generally you need to have been a consultant in uk for about 2 years before you can go as a consultant.
    Apart from a significant difference in pay, there isnot much diffence in the work you do.
    Ass cons 1 ,2
    Cons 1, 2, 3
    Senior cons 1,2,3,4,5

    So you have to be very clear which level you want to be when you negotiate your contract.
    James Perumal

    Good luck,


  755. John Says:

    Thanks HR and James. This makes it clear to me.

    I guess Associate Consultants, Consultants and Senior Consultants in Singapore have the same responsibilities as a UK Consultant but the difference in seniority and pay is more formalised than in the UK where everyone holds the same position as a Consultant.

    I guess patients would prefer to see a Senior Consultant rather than a Consultant or Associate Consultant? Can they choose the doctor they want to be treated by?


  756. hr Says:

    Only private patients can choose the doctor they want to be treated by.

    http://www.ttsh.com.sg/patient-guid...

    Senior Consultant $95
    Consultant $83
    Associate Consultant $73


  757. Starwars8888 Says:

    I am a consultant in pte practise. When I started, the competition to get into medical school was very keen. The work as a houseman was difficult with long hours and lousy shitty pay. Guess some things always remain the same !!! Hahahah. Also the politics and politicking was terrible with daily bitching fault finding and finger pointing . But then, this is part and parcel of all professions and just just confined to the medical fraternity.

    But to everyone who has the guts to endure the crap, the rewards are quite satisfying eventually. If you make it that is,


  758. reubensimhat Says:

    pay and working conditions in australia is a walk in the park, compared to singapore.

    singaporean trained doctors will have no problem passing the australian medical council exams (many sgp drs have passed the MRCP/FRCS exams with flying colors)

    i am just wondering why the sgp medical council has not want to get itself accredited with the australian competent authority pathway? we suspect that the reasons are obvious

    anyway, do look out for a smiling face speaking in a strong singaporean accent at the 2012 medical recruitment seminar in the UK (with one of the australian desks); we will be targetting sgp and malaysians. :)


  759. Jonathan Says:

    @reubensimhat – Cheers for the info! But when I did some reading, apparently in aus there’s this thing called the 10 year moratorium? And they can shift you from place to place? Even if you’re on competent authority?


  760. reubensimhat Says:

    jonathan- you should be able to shift from one site to another site though you are on the competent authority (plus if you are also on the 10 year moratorium). r u a uk grad?

    the APHRA (the australian medical board which is now a national body – since 12 months ago) registration does take a bit of time and it is a real pain

    i do know of a few friends (on non competent pathways) who were also able to move from site to site .there is a south african graduate working in my practice who is under the 10 year moratorium who managed to move from one town to another town.

    the 10 year moratorium is a ‘social contract’ which binds 1. ex overseas students trained in australia 2. international medical graduates
    to areas outside metropolitan areas for 10 years.
    very complicated. but once one has obtained one’s FRACGP/FRCP, one can work in a district of work force shortage (which can be 30-40 min radius from any capital cities)

    good luck.


  761. tools2design Says:

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  762. Jonathan Says:

    Thanks Reuben, yes I’m a UK grad. Would moving around to non metropolitan areas affect family life? How did you handle it? Considering singapore is a known quantity, versus aussie’s unknown factor, do the pros outweigh the cons? thanks loads!


  763. laura Says:

    hi
    just wanted to find out what a senior consultant means?
    what would be the salary for a senior consultant?
    what perks do they enjoy in sg?

    thanks


  764. Shamdoc Says:

    Hi Jonathan,( any one else with info)
    I’m from uk, just finishing CCT . Looking at Singapore as an option for ? Asso Consultant job.
    Do you know what is expected actual take home salary in Sg?

    Regards


  765. reuben Says:

    jon:
    yes moving to a non metro area can be problematic for a family man with school going kids.
    australia is a big place. if the smaller towns do not suit you, u can move to bigger regional towns like dubbo/wagga wagga where it is better serviced by schools/hospitals/government agencies/universities.

    no doubts, if you are out to save up for a deposit for a house in a nice metro area, u may want to give rural practice a trial run.

    from what i was told, working in certain public benovalent institution/clinics (quite easy to identify one if you are here in australia), u can have access to salary packaging (ie up to A$75k per year tax free!!) and accomodation is subsidised.
    plus the government will provide GPRIPS (a grant paid every 6 months, depending on how ulu your town is from the nearest metro area). if you choose to do hospital on call, u will get the extra income from there too.

    but if you are awaiting a big family inheiritance/ have blue blood whereby getting into cosmetic surgery in sgp is no issue, don’t bother to waste your time here ;) .

    but if u are a nobody like me who is interested in providing a well rounded care to rural clients, do give rural medicine a damn!

    good luck. -)


  766. reuben Says:

    jon- if you are still relatively junior in your career in sg, why not come over to australia to work in a public hospital first (if you are on the competent pathway, i think u will need to be under supervision in an institution for at least a year). from here, u can do some homework in the pros and cons of rural medicine.
    good luck mate


  767. Jonathan Says:

    Reuben – I can’t thank you enough. Haha, I have no inheritance buddy. Getting through medical school financially was already a challenge. Thank you for your imformative post. My worry was with children in the future – safety and education-wise, but your post cleared it up. Cheers, and thanks again!

    Shamdoc- As far as I know, you’re gonna need to negotiate with them directly based on what you’re currently earning, and your medical school needs to be recognized by the SMC.


  768. jack Says:

    james perumal
    have u moved to sing yet
    cud u let me know
    jk


  769. reuben Says:

    jon – my advise to u is not to procrastinate any further if your career in sgp is going nowhere. but if you are already a senior registrar in cosmetic surgery, don’t waste your time here. :)

    do make your way to oz asap to gain a foot hold here, before they shut their doors again (the policy makers here are fickle minded, unfortunately). at this moment, the doors are wide open, esp for uk grads (attention: ex sgp and malaysian overseas medical students who will find it challenging competing with other EU grads in the uk).

    it took me less than 2 years to repay my parents my medical school fees (i came back to oz after doing some MO terms in sgp and i started my aussie hospital locum career which took me all over the country) :) . was shitty working in sgp but it was great learning experience. in fact many singapore based hospital MOs can do a lot of the aussie hospital locum jobs – sgp drs are highly regarded here in australia. .
    if i can do it, so can you :)

    eventually settled for gp training.

    one of my malaysian friends who is working in a rural general practice (4 years rural gp working experience) (who does hospital on calls too) is making more than A$500k per annum (as much as what a junior general surgeon specialistwill earn in singapore?????? correct me if i am wrong). with the strong aussie dollar, i need not say more. ;)

    education wise for your kids – many rural GPs move back to the city when their kids are of school going age. by then, they have secured nice accomodation in prestigigious sydney/melbourne suburbs (all paid up in full). rural gps will make enough to secure their kids in the sydney and melb’s equivalent of ACS/RI.


  770. reuben Says:

    jon – the take home pay of drs in sgp will not increase any further ;) . reasons are obvious if you scroll down this forum – something which you and i know very well :) .
    in australia, the barriers to registration is much more highly regulated by the colleges and our rice bowel is well protected by our God father, the Australian medical council :)


  771. James perumal Says:

    Hi jack, I will be moving towards the end of May. Just waiting for the MOM to send the employment pass papers. What’s the scene with you? James perumal


  772. James perumal Says:

    Shamdoc, please check the earlier entries.
    180-240 k depending on speciality.
    James Perumal


  773. shamdoc Says:

    Hi James,
    Thanks
    Further 2 queries

    1. I’m an anaesthetic CCT in UK. Planning for job in Sg as 1/2 Anaesthetic + 1/2 Pain(with interventions). So which end of scale I could negotiate for?

    2. At the end of 2 years, how likely it is that I’ll become Consultant?


  774. help pls Says:

    I am a radiology trainee in UK, not finished all parts of FRCR yet.

    I am moving to singapore for family reasons in next 8-9 months
    1.Would I be able to get training position in Radiology?
    2. When I finish my exam, would I be eligible for Asso Consultant post staright-away?


  775. jack Says:

    james perumal

    i have not been lucky getting the correct salary as suggested in your letter.
    still trying !!
    consultant status without the right salary & perks it will be another struggle for me in sing especially the first 2 years.
    Its nice to hear you are moving down to sing & in final stages.well done & thanks for your comments


  776. Jonathan Says:

    Thanks again reuben. Everything you say rings really true. (On the sg side, as far as I know.) I’ve got one more question – if I’m looking at another specialty, not gp training, what are the chances of getting it? I suppose it depends from specialty to specialty, but generally speaking? I can’t thank you enough, my friend.


  777. James perumal Says:

    shamdoc, the salary also takes into account the number of procedures you do… I.e, you get a set percentage for the number of cases you do. So a list with 10 facet joint injections will fetch you more cash than you colleague who anaesthetises 3-4 knee replacements.
    Iam however not sure if this will be incorporated into ur base salary. The base salary is purely dependent on your seniority.
    If you have a dual cct with anaesthetics and pain….hey, obviously you are looking at the higher end of the spectrum.

    The progression through the seniority should be easy, ( taking into account there are no major screw ups or fall out with the department).

    The pay offered is usually very fair. Negotiations often can be difficult.

    James perumal

    Good luck


  778. Singinaus Says:

    I have just come across this thread as I was thinking of moving back from Australia to Singapore after my surgical fellowship exams (silly factors like char kuay teow play a role)

    For those who want to move over to Australia:

    1) Its very easy if you have Singaporean / UK qualifications. Aus Med council exams are a walk in the park – I give tutorials to overseas trained doctors (although I am Australian trained and have never sat those exams before)

    2) Overtime benefits and allowances are much better than Singapore. I spent a year of fellowship training in Singapore, I can compare the two and tell you.

    3) Problem comes only if you are trying for top end specialties like ENT, Plastics, Neurosurg etc in Australia…. many wait 3-5 years prior to getting in. I can’t speak for ophthalmology and dermatology – but they are just as hard.

    4) As for family life, Australia is fantastic. A junior doctors life in Australia is easy, but a surgical registrar’s life is pretty absorbing – I work 80-100hours a week and used to scrub in for extra cases when given the opportunity. The key is motivation and not wanting to miss out on learning about complex cases – each case is different.

    The only thing that I have noticed about junior doctors in Singapore – and I say this at a risk of being flogged in a forum like this: There is a general feeling of “sufferage” – i.e. Singapore is so tough. While the work hours are long, work is NOT tough… … my buddy here is an african who sat this AMC exams in a refugee camp, then learn english watching TV (he is french speaking) – he works without complaint, is a fine surgeon, speak flowing fluid english…

    Medicine is a fine career – hours spent slogging as a junior registrar will only pay dividends when one of more senior. The clinical acumen gained is priceless! In large hospitals in Australia it is not uncommon to find registrars starting ward rounds at 6am and finishing their day at 8pm, then staying back to study two hours, prior to heading to the gym for a quick workout, then some sleep! Of course, surgery tends to attract the more motivated; and again, can’t speak for other areas of practice.

    My 2c

    Cheers!


  779. shamdoc Says:

    Hi James Perumal

    Thanks.
    Its good to hear that you have been able to finalise your move to S’pore.

    As I mentioned, my CCT is due in few months, and am I’ve already got Faculty of Pain medicine, UK’s qualification of FFPMRCA with 1 year of fellowship training. Hence will be eligible for Pain+ Anaesthetic consultant in UK in few months.

    I am just wondering that, is it better to take up a cons post in UK & go to S’pore in 1-2 yrs time or to leave earlier( if I get a good deal)?
    Any thoughts, pros, cons…. What does ur research indicate?

    BW


  780. jj Says:

    Hey does anyone know the salaries of the residents of these specialities?

    Pediatrics
    Orthopaedic Surgery
    Family Medicine
    Opthamology
    OB & GYN

    Thx very much!


  781. Surgksa Says:

    Hi I am graduated from china in 2002, since then I am working in emergency department as MO. Now a days I am in Saudi Arabia working as emergency physician MO.?
    I want to move singapore as pursue career in emergency medicine.
    What would be chances for me getting job in EM?
    How much salary I would be offered?
    How much I’ll get house rent?

    Same my wife is obs & Gyne MO?
    For her same question… Answer any body please……
    Thanks a lot


  782. kippot Says:

    boys and girls who are interested in exploring the possiblity of working in brunei . just found a site from the doctors mess hall of brunei. do check it out. will be good for people with families. apparently the school fees for children at international schools are subsidised whereas
    http://doctorsbrunei.blogspot.com.au/

    can someone here clarify if specialists drs dependents from western nations who are working in sgp are given international school fee subsidies whereas it is not applicable to drs from asian states?


  783. BIOmass Says:

    Hi,
    I am a graduate of biology seems so hard to find a job on my specialization in Singapore. Any recommendation? probably how much is the basic pay for the biologist?


  784. ismail Says:

    dear all,
    please provide me some urgent information !!!!
    I am a surgeon and asso.prof in Surgery graduated from India first,then have acquired FRCS -Glasgow in the year 2000,Currently I am based in Malaysia since 5 years with a gross earning of MRm 16500 [after tax deduction]
    I have been offered in Singapore,position of Resident Physician in Surgery dept with a salary of SGD Basic 8000+500 Splst allow +1000 House rent=9500 plus bonus+on call etc
    Is it worth it?
    Please advice me frankly
    thank you in anticipation


  785. reuben Says:

    http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/03/2...

    medical doctor with Changi General Hospital pleaded guilty on Tue (27 Mar) to exposing himself to a university female student.

    Apparently, he was dressing himself up as a junior college schoolgirl when he committed the crime.

    Dr Ivan Ngeow Ko Yen, 37, was first charged in Aug 2010 with insulting the modesty of the then 19-year-old university student.

    Dressing as a junior college schoolgirl in a school uniform complete with a top and a skirt, he was seen loitering at a lift lobby on the ground floor of a block in Clementi.

    The girl first saw him at her block’s void deck, but ignored him.

    However, he then lifted his skirt to expose himself to the girl.

    A police report was made by the girl later and Dr Ngeow was arrested the following month.

    Ngeow, who is out on S$10,000 bail, will be sentenced on 24 Apr. For the offence, he could be jailed up to one year and fined.

    TRE readers have been trawling the Net and sending in more information about the doctor. Apparently, he came from Malaysia and has studied in RI and VJC:

    http://www.oocities.org/collegepark...

    It’s July 2002, I’ve completed 6 years of undergraduate medical training at The University of Melbourne, Australia. I trained at the Austin & Repatriation Medical Centre Clinical School. I graduated on Saturday, 4 December 1999, and thence returned to the beautiful country of Malaysia, land of my birth. I am employed by Singapore Health Services Ltd as a Medical Officer, currently posted to Cardiology in Changi General Hospital.

    I spent the first 5 years of primary education in Johor Bahru, Malaysia, before transferring to Singapore. I am a Rafflesian-Victorian, in that order. The four years I spent in Raffles Institution were fabulous years. I particularly cherish memories of the Raffles Institution Military Band. I was the cornet/trumpet section leader in 1991, having stayed in the same section all my school life. Special mention must be made of my all-time buddy, Zakeer. He also stayed in the same section all his school life (Pri Sch inclusive). He’s a cool dude. We’re mates like the Right and Left Alt keys on your keyboard, hehe. I stood on the right side of the field centreline; Zak on the left. And I mention too all the other batchmates of mine. We went through thick and thin, “blood, sweat and tears” in our days in RIMB. That’s why, till this day, we’re still great mates and still in close contact with one another. You can glimpse some old photos of us in the RIMB link above.

    Alas, I was not able to join most of them in RJC after the O levels. I found myself posted to Victoria Junior College, and quite reluctantly I went. But VJC’s a great place, and 92S14 is the greatest CT group of all, heheh. Hardcore as I am, I continued playing the trumpet in the VJC Symphonic Band. Legend has it that I was the pioneer Rafflesian in VJC Band. I haven’t been able to confirm or refute this.

    My interests, besides playing the trumpet and piano, include plane-watching, flight simulation, computer programming and IRC. Catch me as reeed on GalaxyNet, in the #band or #vjc channels. My ICQ UIN is 6193841. On my home PC I run X Windows on FreeBSD, my preferred Operating System. It’s a flavour of Berkeley UNIX for the Intel i386 architecture. I write in C and x86 assembler. I also do some Web script programming in Perl.

    It is not known if he continues to remain as a Malaysian or has converted to Singapore citizen.

    my take
    1. please refrain from exercising such sia sway acts in the public that will harm your career and family

    2. dr ivan obviously has been too complacent to secure his australian medical registration, so that he can go back there to work (if i were him, i will be too malu to work in sgp). coming back to singapore to do his housemanship and not securing his australian registration was a VERY bad move


  786. Suan Says:

    I think it is stated in his online CV that he returned to Malaysia upon graduation from Melbourne Uni. Which means that if he needs an Ahpra general registration, he will need to return to Australia to redo his internship or obtain an Australian college fellowship via the specialist pathway. I’d have to say this, he should have completed his internship here prior to going back, but I guess it’s still not too late as he’s still an Australian trained graduate, he’d better pray he is still a Malaysian citizen if a potential employer here is going to do a criminal history check. But from a Singaporean perspective, his professional reputation in SG is finished.


  787. SOS Says:

    Has anyone here ever worked for International SOS?Esp as a coordinating doctor?I will appreciate if someone can share their experience.thanks


  788. Suan Says:

    I didn’t, but I have a friend who did. He is a medical graduate from India who spent 2 years in Hanoi. Pay was great and the clientele were largely, if not solely English speaking expats. No career progression though.


  789. kim Says:

    iSOS is not a bad company to work for.
    just to share my experience: i applied for a GP job with this kiam kana singaporean healthcare group (based in shanghai) and they expected me to work like a dog for pittance. the CEO’s son who was based there, another kiam kana who lived it rough in the low end housing estate in shanghai!

    i also enquired with iSOS (similar job scope in china) and they were prepared to pay me higher wages compared to that sgp health care group (not hard to guess which one).

    my advise is to do your homework and compare the different pay packages.


  790. SOS Says:

    Suan,Kim: Thanks for your feedback.
    Suan:Staying as a GP or escort doc will of course not give u any career prospects but I am looking at the administrative wide,ie. climbing all the way up to Medical Director post or something.

    Kim:So where are you now?I am actually comparing Singapore based GP/A&E and I-SOS.


  791. Neonate Says:

    Dear all thanks for informative inputs on this blog….I will appreciate your feedbacks on my queries
    I recently got MRCPCH (UK) & exploring option of Sg.
    1.How to start to get in?Means I need to get job firrst by applying or get registered first ?
    2.How much will I get & what will be designation?
    3.spouse is dentist is there any scope for her?


  792. kim Says:

    isos – i am currently working outside singapore.

    if u are based in the isos hq in sgp, you may be getting a comparable wage as what you are doing as a locum dr (sgp based)

    but if u are going to be based in the beijing office, make sure that they offer you the relocation/accomodation allowances.

    salary wis, why don’t you apply and do a comparison.
    am not sure if ISOS has establisedh a shanghai office right now, but the rent there is not cheap and make sure that u do have a generous accomodation allowance for shanghai based jobs.

    career prospect is very subjective lah. depends on what you are after. ;) .


  793. Suan Says:

    Haha, I think I know which kiam group you were hinting. Singapore company is like that, choose the wrong group and you will regret. Squeeze you and work you.


  794. Eczema Rash Treatment Says:

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  795. magento Says:

    I’ve resolved to change my current osCommerce shopping cart to Magento. But the procedure itself seems rather scary. How long does it take? Cause I don’t wanna stop the work of my online store for a long time.


  796. maryland Says:

    Wow.. Hi there Jeff / Starwars / Ortho Surgeon . Fancy seeing your big name, job title and long list of clinics pasted here for the rest of us mere mortals who did not go the med school and/or marry a medical wife to envy. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. It has been a long time since you were just a boy in secondary school comparing the length of one of your important organs in school with the rest of us! If I had to guess back then, I would have hazarded a guess that your specialty was urology instead.


  797. SOS Says:

    Kim: Can I expect the same salary as a resident A&E physician from I-SOS based in sg?


  798. starwars8888 Says:

    hi maryland!!

    hows life? u can email me directly
    and maybe we can catch up some time? i am going for the OBA. maybe we can meet then if you are?

    i am opening yet another new clinic at the new parkway hospital. starts on the 1st july 2012. i am also employing more ortho surgeons to join me!

    urology wasnt for me!! maybe O and G? hahaha. but once you do ortho, sure to get hooked on it!! way too many toys and fun equipment to work and play with !!
    orthopaedics is way too addictive!!! once you start on that path down the DARK side in doing ortho, there is NO turning back!!

    i almost became a cardiac surgeon. but ortho is truly my calling!!

    been a fun ride !
    drop me an email and we can catch up!!
    take care

    [email protected]

    starwars


  799. sitihasmah Says:

    what is the average annual pay of a typical newly qualified orthopedic surgeon in a group practice (1-2 years out in private practice)?
    that is after factoring in the cut from management (the ortho specialist will be an employee/contractor/associate of a group practice)?

    with newly exited orthopods: is S$500k-600k annually (after cut from management) too little or it will be more than that?

    could starwars comment on this?

    i heard that the newly exited paediatricians in private practice will be lucky to fetch ?S$400k (per annum – after cut from management), given that it is amount of private work is shrinking in the paeds field. the lucky ones who manage to get early access to the expatriate market (a niche market)are laughing their way to the bank, but then with the constant production of new pool of paeds specialists is making life for competitive, esp for those HDB based paeds practices.


  800. starwars8888 Says:

    hi

    sorry. i wont comment on open forums about what i pay my guys.

    too sensitive. hope you understand.

    starwars


  801. sitihasmah Says:

    could anybody here confirm what is annual nett earnings of a newly qualified orthopedic surgeon in a private group practice like RMG/Healthway etc (NOT net billings, as it varies dependingon where you get your clientel).
    we have to understand that they will need to give a cut to the management for rent of theatre/support staff/nursing staff/ office etc.

    management (GPs, medical and surgical speciaties) with predatory , blood sucking tendencies will be black listed very quickly over kopi talks amongst peers.

    in Australia, a GP group with predatory inclinations is now finding hard to recruit doctors locally.


  802. drdjupri Says:

    hi ISMAIL,
    i was compelled to reply ur post on March 15th, 2012 at 7:47 pm.. Hope this is of help to you!!!

    Are you MAD ismail?!….NO,n double NO NO!… resident physician in department of surgery is a mo’s job,you will be treated as one and most probably b bullied as one, of cos unless u have a ‘towering physique’!

    Let me enlighten u of what ur daily duties r as a “glorified” mo:.. almost daily teaching,journal club meeting at 7am..followed on by routine ward rounds…then run off either to run surgical out-patients or to OT.. OT isn’t glamarous!.. u will first only allowed to assist a registrar(..apparently having same qualification as u, but of cos only a couple years of actual operative experience!)…you will b agitated by his /her operative skill bcos, well, as i gather u have worked in m’sia for the past 5 years at least at a clinical specialist post..so i’m sure u’ll shake ur head in dismay!.. u may try to give him/her some good ol’ operative tips, but he’ll just look at u in amazement wonderin wat d fcuk u just said.. then he’ll start to boast about his laparoscopic prowess!..”i do tis i do dat…published tis publish dat”….. blah blah ,but lil’ he know dat u have actually managed an entire department of surgery done gd ol’ conventional open surgeries with a stroke of ur scapel!!… laparoscopy r for wanna bees!,u have probably done all d surgeries there is from head to toe in ur years of practice.. but to tis registrar u r only a “cow-boy” surgeon.. well, a 3rd world class surgeon to b precise…. then in d midst of it all u’l be wondering why d fcuk all d hoohah of lap. extraperitoneal approach to a tiny-weenee hernia where u would just do an open hernia repair with an incision of 2cm n further more under local anaesthetic in about 1/4 of d operating time!!??… then u sigh in disbelief!!

    i will relate all of my experiences to u if u r keen … but for d time being, my SINCERE ADVISE


  803. drdjupri Says:

    Hi Ismail,
    my sincere advise to u is dat: STAY WHERE U R NOWIN M’SIA, CONSIDER NEGOTIATING WIF M’SIA GOVERNMENT TO ALLOW U PERMANENT STATUS, TAKE UP TEACHING, N PERHAPS SOON ENUF U CAN B IN A LUCRATIVE PRIVATE HOSP!!

    But if u insist sgp pay is worthwhile to slog for then at least negotiate for at least a service registrar post….remember Ismail, resident physician is a “glorified” mo’s job in sgp.

    oh i almost forgot… in all surg department in sgp there is a weekly(usually fridays) Mortality+Morbidity Meeting!…u will never have tis sort of experience in malaysia!.. its a “screw,bang,slag” M.O.session where ALL surgical specialties,HOD will b there to take a swipe at u!!.. some really take pride in making u look like a fool…but, hey i guess dats all part of surgical training rite?

    …just my 2 cents worth


  804. Ismail Says:

    Dear drdjupri,
    I surely will need more information from you.Can you write to my e mail or provide me with your phone number wherever you may be located,if it is acceptable with you?
    regards


  805. drdjupri Says:

    needed to warn u Ismail, who ever offered u tis post is truly exploiting u to d max!!..
    ..come ‘on Ismail, u r or was an assoc. prof. u can do better than tis bro.
    ..by d way, HOD’s in sgp get “jittery” about “assoc. prof” from india.. they tend to regard u as having a “sham” degree…. so during d interview please do not highlight ur assoc. prof, in fact dont even state it in ur cv unless ur have published many many studies or articles in reputed journals.

    ..just my 2 cents worth


  806. Ismail Says:

    thank you,but how to contact you now?


  807. drjupri Says:

    email me : [email protected]


  808. Ismail Says:

    thanks


  809. Ismail Says:

    ok


  810. ismail Says:

    you never replied my e mail


  811. drdjupri Says:

    Hi Ismail,
    kindly email to [email protected]


  812. eneTGIF Says:

    Hi,

    Wonder anyone could provide me the info on how much is night duty allowance as well as specialist allowance for doctors (consultant, registrar, etc) in singapore ??

    Thanks!


  813. Hanel Cung Cấp Dịch Vụ Sửa Chữa Tại Nhà Và Cơ Quan Nhanh Nhất - Thuận Tiện Nhất - Giá Tốt Nhất Says:

    Hanel Cung Cấp Dịch Vụ Sửa Chữa Tại Nhà Và Cơ Quan Nhanh Nhất – Thuận Tiện Nhất – Giá Tốt Nhất…

    [...]Doctors’ pay | Salary.sg – Your Salary in Singapore[...]…


  814. ajr Says:

    Hi
    I am a Consultant Histopathologist in the UK working in this post for the last 2 years. I am an indian who graduated from St Johns in India (recognised by sg) and then migrated to the UK where I attained my FRCPath. Would anyone be able to give me some idea of what standards of Histopathology are in SG and what level of consultant and pay scale I may expect if i apply for a position.

    I would like to shift for social and personal reasons but do not want to compromise on the standards of medical practice which I regard as essential in healthcare. Ideally I would like to join a teaching institute. Is there anything specific that I should be thinking about. Thanks a lot.

    Regards
    Dr AR


  815. ajr Says:

    PS The reason I chose to look at Singapore is because I would like to think that it is a good combination of asian culture and progressive thinking. This link has given debate on this subject. As always things don’t seem as rosy as they do from outside, but im confident that there are some good professional institutions out there that value their professionals as much as professional value the institution. Are there any consultants out there who can give a balanced view of whats going on? Thanks

    Dr AR


  816. kim Says:

    dr ajr
    if they offer you the right terms and perks, why not?

    have you considered working in australia, where the pay (even after taxes) is a lot better than in sgp? you will have no problems passing the australian exams.


  817. yourmatey Says:

    The problem with working in Oz is of cause the severe racism and bigotry Indians and also all other Asians there face from the incorrigible whites.


  818. kim Says:

    i work in australia and my overall exeprience has been excellent. there are racists people everywhere, and that includes singapore.
    anyway, the Aboriginals are the First Australians.
    i seem to have encountered more Full of nonsense patients/nasty patients in my working life in singapore, than racists patients in australia (i can count the number of brushes with racism in australia, but have lost count of the number of FON patients in singapore)

    working here has been a very personal choice and it will suit some while not others.
    if you have a large inheiritance waiting for you in singapore or if you are part of the Familee elite/those with dirty money, then you are wasting your time in australia.

    but if you are a hard working nurse/junior dr who has hit the glass ceiling in singapore, then do give working life in australia a damn!

    anyway, i will be doing some shifts at Christmas Island (part of Western Australia) which was part of singapore till the 1950s! the number of malay/hokkien speakers (who now proudly proclaim themselves as Australians) do outnumber the ‘mainlanders’ *u need to read between the lines to know what i am talking about* ;) .


  819. yourmatey Says:

    i beg to differ.

    there are FON patients everywhere but at least in your home country you won’t face racism.

    Australians still strongly believe in white supremacy theories (remember pauline hanson) and the xenophobia and hatred of Asian immigrants is well known.

    Of course if you are in some ulu rural place it may not be so bad, but its definitely much much worse in the bigger cities.


  820. kim Says:

    yours matey, i beg to differ
    another MOHH staff in disguise here.
    the first australians are the Aboriginal people and the government here has been pumping in a lot of money to close the gap between indigenous and non indigenous australians.

    in my home country in singapore, i face being discriminated by my own kind (which is lagi worse)
    being discriminated by your own kind cuts a lot deeper !!!

    after 911, asians have not been subjected to the ssame kind of racism as during the days of hanson.

    u are trying to convince your singaporean and malaysian drs from uk to come back to sgp is it? LOL. they will make up their minds. your white bigoted bogey man theories are in fact a bit outdated lah. think of something new

    pay wise, we all know where is better and so please stop conning us here lah.

    The health care system here in australia are more pro health care providers (unless it is due to medical negligence), rather than FON patients whereas in singapore, FON patients do have an upper hand when they lodge a complaint.i have been in the sgp hospital system (will not give away the names of the hospital) and i have been asked to answer complaint letters from FON patients. PRC patients are also well known to throw their weight around.

    anyway thanks for sponsoring the nice makan sessions last year at your recruitment talk in australia and i do hope to come again (if i am invited ;) ).


  821. yourmatey Says:

    No, i’m not from the ministry. Just sounding out a word of caution to doctors here who thinks the “grass in greener” on the other side.

    Racisim is a bit outdated, yes, but it’s also persistent and a fact. The news reports of Indian students being bullied and physically abused is just one of the recent examples.

    Though you on the other hand do come across quite strongly as some Aussie health recruiter!


  822. kim Says:

    aiyo yoursmatey
    trying to play back those old propaganda about racism in australia, that sounds very juvenile.
    please try something baru lah.

    me as an aussie health recruiter??? chun bo??
    lol. i do not receive any monetary benefits by recruiting drs here

    u cakap as if discriminasi does not occur in singapore, please lah, go and open our eyes and see how many training positions are denied to singaporeans who served ns and given to FTs instead.
    for a fact, being bullied and discriminated by our fellow asians cuts a lot deeper. if that is not discrimination, what do you want to call it?

    young singaporean and malaysian drs are mature enough to make up their mind where they want to work.
    a smart aussie/uk trained dr will come and trial it out in sgp after they have obtained their post grad qualifications. will be difficult to poach those who have either finished their ns liabilities/full registration in australia/nz.


  823. Mike Says:

    kim: what is your poison ? LOL

    No, I am not from any ministry or recruiter, but .. are you serious FT are given preferance over local talent in SG ? ah .. come on ..

    FT – MO, starting pay 3,000

    Local talent ? MO – starting pay 4,000

    two months ago, doctors got a pay rise – in govt hospitals – FT – 200 $ for MO, LT ? well, 1,200

    You got your knickers twisted somewhere

    Oh, discriminated by your own kind ? well, then too bad .. it happens everywhere ..

    Don’t equate that to discrimination by FT

    Actually, show me ONE FT here who can rule the roost ? Unless of course you make Malaysians as FT .. which I lost the argument here ..

    Like the former in-house jester, don’t brand me as a stooge of the govt or any recruiter – I am just a neutral observer !!


  824. yourmatey Says:

    Link below is just a recent example of Australians’ deep bigotry towards Asians.

    As i said before, grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen...


  825. kim Says:

    people will make up their mind where the grass is greener. no amount of propaganda spewed by any party will change the hearts and minds of people who want to emigrate/return. people are entitled to their own opinion.

    what hurts most is being discriminated by our own kind in singapore.

    just answer me this query if it is true that foreign nurses in singapore have to surrender their passports to Human resourcewhen they are employed on their first contract????true or false? in australia, this system is never allowed. please tell me that such system does not exist in singapore.

    working conditions wise in singapore – please see the earlier posts here in this forum and in other blog spots. young junior drs’/nurses working conditions in singapore, as opposed to those of their peers in uk/australia/nz.
    pay wise in australia (after tax)????? have you taken that into account.
    pay of GPs/nurses and new specialists in australia – the information is easy to get from online.
    the graass being brown or not is very subjective. depends on what people want in their bank account at the end of the day.


  826. yourmatey Says:

    my dear kim, who discriminated against you?

    as far as i know, our malays, indians and chinese exist fairly harmoniously in the hospital environment.

    no one’s been held back from consultant posts / becoming head of department because of race.

    whilst the racism is extremely prevalent in Australia (i’ve referenced the link earlier)

    so i’m not sure what you are talking about.


  827. kim Says:

    dearest yoursmatey

    you are bitching about racism in australia, but then you have failed to address the issues of discrimination against health care workers in singapore.
    what you say doesn’t hold water my dear.

    tell me if it is true that nurses from other asian countries who are on their first contract have their passports impounded for ‘safe keeping’ by hospital HR departments? all i want you to do is to refute this statement.if they wish to take urgent leave to return to their home countries, they need to have part of their salary witheld

    why is it necessary to impound their passports? isn’t it outright discrimination, or simply institutionalised racism?

    foreign nurses, ie prc/pinoys are not paid the same as singaporean nurses – true or false.
    this discrimination goes both way, as everybody at a similar level should be paid similar wages.
    .
    in australia, every health care worker is paid award wages, regardless of their nationality.

    give me a nasi lemak and nasi ayam chicken rice! ;) ; playing the racism card is so yesterday. try something new lah.


  828. yourmatey Says:

    You are right, you know. Your points are valid.

    But one VERY big thing is different, at least you DON’T GET STABBED walking on the streets cause some of the “locals” don’t like your face! (pls read the link if you haven’t)

    PS stop droppping all the singaporean food examples, firstly its annoying, and secondly its making me hungry.


  829. weird_kim Says:

    discrimination goes both way. why u go on receiving end ?


  830. Dr Oz(former son of SG) Says:

    I think the main point that Kim was making in his earlier posts is that discrimination against born and bred Singaporeans exists in the local healthcare system, especially if one have no “connections” (then again, if one had connections one probably wouldn’t need to study medicine overseas). While in USA/UK/Australia everyone have a fair and equal fighting chance for training spots against other non-whites, in Singapore “connections” are everything and can even buy you a President Scholarship and a newly-created NS scientist vocation (ie., Dr Patrick Tan).
    The other point made by Kim about favoritism being shown to FTs in is equally appalling too. I understand from friends in the system that this favoritism now even extends to local medical school entry, with the local school DukeNUS having a very high proportion (>50%) of FTs or “new citizens” (free citizenship given with degree, no need to serve NS!), and many even receive scholarships and guaranteed training spots over local born and bred citizens. All the while our sons and daughters continually go to USA/UK/Australia to study medicine and eventually practice there. I doubt the FTs would benefit Singapore in the long run as they have no loyalty to Singapore and probably see her as merely a stepping stone to first-world countries.


  831. yourmatey Says:

    Yeah but that’s off-topic. The point is whether there is racism against Asians in Aus and the answer is yes. So already practising doctors should choose to stay in Sg then go overseas and face racism.

    yes there are definitely FT problems, but that’s a topic you should take to Temasek Review or the like.


  832. kim Says:

    yoursmatey
    lol. you seem to have a point to grind about racism against asians and asian drs in australia and you are telling dr oz to take the topic to temasek review !????
    *laughing out loud*. u have posted a link about asians being assaulted in oz, but you have failed to mention that a singaporean taxi driver was assaulted by angmoh /Korean/PRC/Malaysians in Singapore proper itself..

    another joker lu. why don’t you take this topic to temasek review yourself

    your statement about already practising drs should choose to stay in sgp then go overseas and face racism doesn’t hold water.
    drs in singapore will decide for themselves what they want in life, if they want a bigger wallet in their bank account/better quality of life.
    they have definitely thought of the racism factor too. some drs cannot get into an advanced training position and they know that they have hit the glass ceiling. The only way is to go oveseas and scale the mountain there, even if it means that they have to start all over again. we will not throw names here.
    no where is picture perfect my dear.

    what is meant for Dr Holland Road/Bukit Timah/ will not apply for Dr Jalan ulu ulu.

    one thing for sure, drs who are already practising like susan lim , woffles wu , martin huang, JJ Chua, Georgia Lim, Joyce lam, prof chee yc, blue blood drs will stay put in singapore and not waste their time overseas!

    u are insulting the intelligence of singaporeans here and it is very arrogant of you to do that in this forum.

    i have no problems with FT, but they should be paid the same wages as local singaporeans, and it is a win win situation for both sides of the coin.


  833. yourmatey Says:

    are you serious? u are comparing a single local crime in Singapore to the general widespread racism in Aus? did you even read the article?

    i feel i’ve wasted my breath with you. to each his/ her own.

    stay in Aus for all you want. for me, there’s nowhere that compares to the comfort of home.


  834. Michael Says:

    @kim: I would add Dr Susan Lim, Dr Lee Wei Ling, Dr George M and more to that List LOL

    This explains why even talented Foreigner doctors don’t stick around, even when they have Singapore spouse … as of now, I can bet that all govt hospitals are severely short handed, so much so that a 24 hour clinic just had one MO on the night – and was a foreigner, and no dinner/toilet break. Must be fun ..

    ::: i have no problems with FT, but they should be paid the same wages as local singaporeans, and it is a win win situation for both sides of the coin. :::


  835. jerome Says:

    Why is radiology taken out of the poly courses. Or could be I missed it out? Can anyone find it for me? I really want it!


  836. again ?? Says:

    michael, are u peering at the world from your hole in the ground ? Look at http://www.salary.sg/2012/graduate-...

    some foreign docs got housing allowance, do u get ?


  837. son noi that Says:

    With havin so much content and articles do you ever run
    into any issues of plagorism or copyright infringement?
    My blog has a lot of exclusive content I’ve either created myself or outsourced but it appears a lot of it is popping it up all over the internet without my permission. Do you know any solutions to help reduce content from being ripped off? I’d certainly appreciate it.


  838. hopeful foreign doc Says:

    AS a foreign doctor, I was looking, with hope, to singapore as possibly a good place to practice medicine. Not as somewhere to use, but as somewhere I could learn and hone my skills, whilst providing the state with a vaulable service.

    I have to say, that having read this forum and its posts, I would now put Singapore as LAST on my list of places to work as a medic.

    Your healthcare system is the epitomy of a failing system:
    - reluctant to change – seniors expressing that dismissive ” we went through it, so you should have to too” attitude to unfair hours/pay. It is simply incorrect to suggest that insanely long and dangerous shifts are necessary to clerk the required number of cases to become a specialist in any area. Look around – healthcare systems all over the world are now running from this way of training.

    - Nurses sniping at doctors instead of working to gether

    - threats from administrators to curb free speech

    - Open expression of “kiss my ass, buy me gifts” attitude to advancing ones career

    - Fear\discrimination of foreigners

    Good luck trying to lure foreign doctors to Singapore. With the views expressed here on this forum, particularly by the seniors and administrators, anyone with half a brain would run a mile


  839. Park Says:

    Hello,
    I’m working as 3rd year of resident in neurosurgery in south korea.

    From Feb.2014, I will become specialist in neurosurgery and my interest is in brain tumor (subspeciality).

    I want to know the course/any steps i may take to work as brain surgeon in singapore and the pay salary i can expect from it.

    Thank u. For any replies, highly appreciate.


  840. kim Says:

    http://www.australiandoctor.com.au/...

    hey, overseas students are now given internship priority in victoria.

    year after year, the kiasi health departments all over australia has been crying wolf about overseas student internship placements.
    at the last min, the victorian overseas students are given internship placements. as i have predicted lah.

    health departments in australia are more kiasi than MOHH recruitment. lol


  841. ISMAIL Says:

    Can anybody help me with this information?
    -What are the minimum skills and competencies required to function as a RESIDENT PHYSICIAN in SURGERY?….Any must do procedures or skills?
    -I will be joining TTSH by Sept this year,Have been a Asso,Prof in Surgery,already 48 yrs old
    regards


  842. Urodoc Says:

    Im a urologist, having done my undergrad, and specialist fellowship in south africa.
    Is there a need for urologists in Singapore?
    Are South African qualifications recognised?


  843. doc888 Says:

    ISMAIL,

    Did you sign your contract as a Resident physician?


  844. ISMAIL Says:

    yes


  845. doc888 Says:

    ISMAIL,

    dun expect any career progress if you were to join as a resident physician(RP).RP is like an experienced MO,you wun get to operate,maybe only stuffs like removing drain,dressing etc.

    why did you give up ur position as an assoc. prof and down grade urself to RP?Is it worthwhile?


  846. SOS Says:

    has anyone ever worked with International SOS,either as a coordinating doctor,Emergency physcian or anything?please share you experience.
    thank you.


  847. asl Says:

    hi..can anybody help me out in choosing the best among SG,UAE & UK..I am presently in one of the gulf countries & did my MRCPCH .( paeds)

    please


  848. Kumar Says:

    Hi James Perumal

    I am looking to move to Singapore for family reasons after working in UK for1yr as medical consultant . Is there a chance I can chat to you . Please let me know your convenience . Hope you have settled in Singapore .

    Thanks


  849. Kumar Says:

    Hi Jack

    I have just been reading your previous threads . Hope you managed to negotiate a deal . I am looking move to Singapore after being a medical consultant in UK for 1 yr . Is there a chance I can chat to you please ?

    Thanks


  850. Dr Liyanage Says:

    I have graduated (MD) from Republic of Belarus (Former USSR country). After my internship i am working as a senior house officer at orthopaedic unit Srijayawardanapura general hospital, Srilanka for two years.are there any opportunity for me to work in singapore? please help me.


  851. Dr Choo Says:

    hi any of you locum doctors was ever paid CPF


  852. Suan Says:

    Of course. You dare not to pay?


  853. RAHMAN Says:

    What is the current salary for RP,Registrar,MO.pls give 2012 recent salary structure like basic,House rent+clinical allowance+others=gross salary and this excludes night calls


  854. AB Says:

    I am an frca, cct anaesthetics with 1 year pediatric anaesthesia experience. more than 7 years experience. At what level should i apply for a job in singapore : associate consultant or consultant.
    I am eligible for consultant job in Uk.

    How likelihood is there of getting a job in singapore?


  855. jayvee Says:

    I am being offered a position as a general surgery clinical associate in one of the hospitals there in singapore. I already finished my general surgery residency training in the philippines and currently board elligible. What is the current starting salary for a clinical associate?


  856. Krisa Says:

    I am a specialist from Taiwan. Do anyone know if it’s possible to set up a cosmetology clinic in Singapore? Any specific requirements?
    Thanks for any comment.


  857. V Says:

    what is the salary for Resident PHYSICIAN in Gen Surgery who has FRCS IN SURGERY & 15 YRS PLUS OF EXPERIENCE IN iNDIA


  858. Michael Says:

    starts off from 6,500, and onwards and upwards .. in Govt Hospitals.


  859. ismail Says:

    dear V,
    Dont ever think of joining as resident physician after FRCS
    It is a position of medical officer with no further scope to be promoted.Nature of work is real menial and you’ll spend all the time running up and down worse than your housemanship days
    I did work and resigned within 3 months
    Will never ever consider that.
    e mail me or more info
    [email protected]


  860. Prath Says:

    I am a neonatal consultant in UK and has more than 2 yrs experience after my CCT. Could you please give me any information with regards to the salary scale? And my wife is a radiologist who has just finished her CCT in UK with a musculo- skeletal and neuro radiology specialities. It would be helpful to know about the radiology opportunity and the salary scales. Many thanks.


  861. Irving Says:

    Link exchange is nothing else but it is just placing the other person’s web site link on your page at proper place and other person will also do similar for you.


  862. Johnny Says:

    I am U.S emergency medicine board certified physician with 10 year of experience. Thinking of moving to Singapore for the experience. Can anyone tell me what will be the approximate salary and work hours please? Thanks..


  863. ER er Says:

    It’s very low compared to us standards… About $s1500. Be prepared to live like a student if you really want to come here!


  864. Michael Says:

    jayvee Says:

    Clinical Associates pay is fixed, at 3,200 S$, plus 800 $ housing allowance, plus a night call allowance.

    You will need to do night calls 4 times a month, if things haven’t changed ..


  865. true Says:

    That sounds about right! Note that S$ 800 will only get you a rental room in a shared apartment and probably not a very nice one…


  866. Johnny Says:

    Wow, that is low.I could make that working few days in the States. Is it because I am a foreign doc, and need to start from the bottom? Why would any physician from developed countries go there.


  867. Johnny Says:

    Just read year worth of messages. Is there any reason why I would start as a clinical assoiciate instead of consultant?
    Thanks


  868. Michael Says:

    Johnny:

    let’s be realistic.

    Many a foreign doctor ends up here, not always for $

    Some, as their spouse are here, some, well, to get exposure, and the rest, I have no clue !!!

    If you are suitably qualified, or have equivalent degree / exams covered, you start off above the lowest in the ranks !!!

    Not everybody comes and starts off as Clinical Associate ..

    There are those who start off as Registrars, Consultants and the likes ..


  869. tmat Says:

    can somebody confirm whether a doctor under observation will not be paid even by governtment hospitals in sgp? shall appreciate if someone can help me


  870. Michael Says:

    tmat: who/what are you talking about ??

    Care to explain who made such an offer ?


  871. tmat Says:

    Thanks Michael for your prompt response.
    I was informed/heard that Doctor (with a overseas degree & experience) as MO during observatory period will not be paid any money!!! I got surprised and was of the opinion that nothing is free in this world – or may be to get used to the environs of sgp they may offer this and after confirmation it will be on regular pay !! is it so? pls advise


  872. Michael Says:

    tmat: which institution was it again ??

    MO’s do get paid .. period ..


  873. tmat Says:

    Dear Michael,
    do you mean to say from day of joining whether under SMC observation or otherwise??? I understand it is MOHH !!! but not so sure
    Please clarify that the MOs do get paid from day one of their joining date whether or not under SMC observation ? thanks in advance for the info


  874. K.R Says:

    I am a consultant intensivist [1 yr] in Australia and i am looking at job opportunities in S’pore. What remuneration package[ salary + allowances] should I be looking at for a similar job in S’pore.


  875. VM Says:

    Dear all,

    I have just completed my CCT in general psychiatry in the UK and plan to make the move to Singapore. Could someone give me an idea on expected annual salary (including bonus)? I expect to enter as an associate consultant. Also, does anybody have any ideas on expected earnings as a consultant and then later as a senior consultant? I have scrolled through the entire forum but could not find the answers to my question.
    Many thanks in advance.


  876. tmat Says:

    Dear Michael – Once again Request your reply on the following -
    as MO (under SMC observation for xx months) will one get paid from day one of joining date?
    pls advice
    thanks


  877. Michael Says:

    tmat: you see, I am not a doctor, nor am I a recruiter .. and the ‘hit’ squad is on leave as of now I guess :D

    Well, I would prefer to discuss / update you in private, alas, I am not gonna publish my details here ..

    hence my question: which organisation said so ??


  878. tmat Says:

    Dear Michael
    Thanks for the feedback and your time.
    As I told you I guess it was MOHH – Ministry of Health ??? may be I am not sure
    I may have to rethink on this if this is true
    Regards
    Tmat


  879. Michael Says:

    unless you are on a fellowship program, from what i know, you will be paid .. or rather, you must be paid ..


  880. tmat Says:

    Dear Michael,
    Yes every one agress that any person rendering services deserves to be paid – unless it is a voluntary service – However, the services of Medical Officer that too in a public/sgp govt hospital will not be paid !!!! during the observatory period – not atleast the expenses ? this is what is surprising me !!!
    This is what I heard/understand – but no exact details – I appreciate if any one from MOHH can appraise me of??


  881. Michael Says:

    tmat: I don’t think anybody here is from MOHH, or if they are, they are pretty silent ..

    You are throwing bits and pieces and expecting a reply .. btw.

    Are you telling me you got an offer with no pay ?

    Again, from what I know – that is NOT possible, unless you go on Fellowship

    For example .. like …

    http://www.sgh.com.sg/subsites/pgmi...


  882. simhat Says:

    to kr ie post874

    do your homework and enquire from sg intensivisits how much they are getting and also do the same with your co workers back in australia.

    you will definitely make more in australia, even if you factor into taxes
    if you work for a public health institition in australia, you are entitled up to
    A$ 50 000 SALARY PACKAGING, which means to say that the first $50 k is NOT taxable.
    do google what salary packaging is.

    good luck


  883. Aslam Says:

    hello friends
    I am an Anesthetist with total 5 yrs experience (Including MD training) working in Delhi, India. I have been offered a fellowship in anaesthesia at SGH. they will pay me a stipend of SGD 2000 per month, no housing. Will I be able to make ends meet? I am married and have a 9 month old daughter.
    will i be able to get them to Singapore with me at this stipend? Should i consider taking this up?
    Please help me on this as I need to confirm my accpetance to the hospital.

    Regards

    Aslam


  884. Michael Says:

    Hi Aslam

    if you are alone, and have savings, you can make do in 2,000 – approx 600 to 800 for common room rental, and rest for food etc.

    As a family, tough ..


  885. Aslam Says:

    Thanks Michael

    Since you’ve been nice enough to answer, lemme be greedy! :)
    After this one year of fellowship, I will have 7 yrs experience in all. Will I be eligible for Consultant or Clinical Associate then? Also do they offer jobs at the end of the fellowships? Is it common practice?

    Regards

    Aslam


  886. Michael Says:

    Hi Aslam

    I am not a medical person ..

    You should be able to get in as a CA, if not a Consultant after completing Fellowship, unless there is some exclusion clause

    You may look up the MOHH Site for that.


  887. Gireesh Naik Says:

    Hello Guys,

    Those who are working in SGH EM or IM, Kindly clarify my doubt, I have offered higher level resident, I have done MRCP UK 2011, MRCGP UK -2010, Diploma in occupational Medicine from FOM UK, and DFM, Post graduate certficate course in accident emergency care. 12 years of clinical experience

    I asked service registrar but they said, I do not MCEM and will offer Higher level resident, is right post for my qualification and experience, What salary can I expect?


  888. Jaha Says:

    Can u please guide what is the salary for service registrar in gastroenterology in singapore


  889. reuben Says:

    from the straits time.
    Will love to hear answers from the floor

    LAST Saturday afternoon, my fiancee, who is a staff nurse at Khoo Teck Puat Hospital’s cardiac intensive care unit, told a patient’s family member not to use his mobile phone within the ICU as it could interfere with the medical equipment.

    Though she was polite throughout the encounter, she was subjected to a verbal tirade, including finger pointing, that was vicious enough to reduce her to tears.

    Senior nursing staff were called in and, at the end of the incident, not only was there no apology from the family member, but my fiancee was also informed about his feedback and told to understand his situation.

    This notion of “the customer is always right” is unacceptable.

    I understand that a patient’s family has to endure extreme stress and anxiety, but it does not justify verbal abuse of health-care staff.

    Health-care workers have the patients’ best interests at heart, and this may occasionally be at odds with what is seen as “good” customer service.

    As a doctor who has worked in both hospital and primary care settings, I have found that incidents of verbal abuse are not uncommon.

    This is most often directed at nursing and auxiliary staff, although doctors are also not spared.

    Abusive individuals are usually coaxed rather than warned, thus perpetuating the impression that they can get their way through such deplorable behaviour.

    Firmer action needs to be taken against them.

    It is essential for public health-care institutions to show unwavering support to all staff who have been verbally abused.

    Can the hospital and the Ministry of Health elaborate on what concrete measures are in place to protect staff from abuse? What forms of redress are available to them?

    Public health-care staff should not have to suffer in silence.

    Zhang Weisheng (Dr)


  890. Michael Says:

    Rueben: the floor is quite :D

    Well, to an extent, gotta agree .. it does breed the image that doctors screwed up, when the customer-is-right attitude goes on to strengthen the notion that doctors are not upto standard, by the management falling all overs .. sometimes ..

    No, I am not in medical, but .. that’s what I see

    As per my conversation with somebody when I mentioned CGH – the answer was the doctors there are totally incompetent – and that’s being justified by him, based on the number of apology letters churned out by CGH


  891. reuben Says:

    Michael dear: unfortunately the ‘customer is always right’ etho is very damaging to healthcare in sgp. we have shot ourselves in the foot when we choose to embrace that useless and outdated mantra. only a screwed up system will embrace that mantra in a health care institution.
    everybody screws up everywhere just like our politicians. On the other hand, nobody deserves to abuse nurses, who are the backbone of the hospital.
    Nurses in Singapore are highly sought after by Australia/NZ and it is no secret that the nursing recruitment agencies are on the prowl, hunting for our experienced nurses.

    nurses and doctors here will make the choice if they want to migrate and given these poor track record of hospital administration when it comes to handling abuse by patients, our health care providers will decide if they want to make the move or not.

    so if our best health care providers choose to take flight, we will end up in a situation like south Africa, where nurses/doctors are leaving in packs.
    what can we do without our nurses ;) – we/u can lick our/your wounds if they are not there!!!


  892. reuben Says:

    http://asingaporeanson.blogspot.com...

    migration questions – healthcare industry.
    Written by a singaporean nurse who is now based in australia.
    It will be good to hear from a nursing perspective too.

    This journey is not for everybody and everyone will make his/her choice

    do not bother applying if you are already on a high 5 figure monthly pay/blue blood awaiting a huge inheiritance.


  893. reuben Says:

    if you are not comfortable clicking on the link, just to and google ” a singaporean in australia blogspot migration questions”

    good luck

    high taxes in australia – no problems; public hospitals offer SALARY PACKAGING, which you can package up to A$50 000, which can be tax free if you are paying a lot of bills.


  894. asian doctor Says:

    May I know how much an MO ( who already finished MRCP ) will earn as a whole per month ?


  895. Michael Says:

    asian Doctor: 3000 to 3700 + housing + standby allowances +++ ???


  896. Anand Says:

    Hi,
    Iam an Indian doctor currently working in oman as specialist ophthalmologist.i have 4 years post Frcs experience with no CCT from uk.i have applied for service registrar post in Singapore.what will be my job responsibility and salary


  897. reuben Says:

    Regarding migration to Australia and Skilled occupation list.

    2012 skilled occupation list : http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/_pdf...

    doctors and nurses are still there on the skilled occupation list.
    Do not hesistate or procrastinate.


  898. asian doctor Says:

    I am aware of a possibility to be in a residency training position now in Singapore.

    If the service MO post ( who has already finished MRCP) is to be started before getting a chance for interview on residency, how mcuh of the remuneration would be offered ?

    I am just wondering how much an MO ( IMG ) can be in sustainable career position in terms of pay and prospect.

    Would Appreciate any comment .


  899. Mich Says:

    Anand, you may have less stress and more pay in Oman .. just my 2 cents :)


  900. asian doctor Says:

    To Michael,

    Thanks for the information.

    Someone with foreign MBBS and UK post graduate degree MRCP is trying to get started with MO post, and if there is some condition like double standard in terms of having basic UK degree or not, ( people are aware of registrar / resident physician post being eligible for those with MRCP ), it might be a negative pull factor.

    Another pull factor for an IMG is unless we have basic salary more than 4500 per month, it is hard to get employment pass for somebody,right ?

    Please bear with me.

    SG is known to be embracing meritocracy.

    We beleive it.


  901. Anand Says:

    My current salary in Oman is USD 4000


  902. reuben Says:

    http://www.kiwihealthjobs.com/healt...

    New zealand health is recruiting resident medical officers for the 2013 2014 intake.

    Interested drs please contact your friendly NZ recruitment officer.

    good luck


  903. celes Says:

    I ginished my md paeds, planning o work in singapore. Wts the pay and accomodation


  904. Michael Says:

    Celes, where did you complete your degree ?

    How many years experience do you have ?

    asian doctor: EP issues impact other fields, so far, Medical line is not impacted, as the jobs are govt hospital jobs.

    Of course, you may have issues getting depednant pass for wife/kids


  905. LocumGP Says:

    Just found out that GP locum rates in Malaysia is only rm45 per hr which is like $18/hr or 20% of what I am getting here! Was thinking of living in Johor and commuting to work here but the commute is tedious that is why searched for work in Johor but the rate is really too low…


  906. LocumGP Says:

    Hi Kawa, were you referring to my post? Are you a foreign doctor? What mission are you involved in?

    I got my info first hand calling up a recruiter from Johor from a locum Facebook website and my personal experience working as a fulltime freelance locum GP in Singapore the last few years. Earned much more than when I was in Singhealth bonded or when I was with Parkway Shenton as a GP.


  907. Michael Says:

    Kawa is a spammer .. key, click on his “email / from address” :)

    LocumGP : if you are a SMC full reg- then you should be able to make more here … as Locum .. ;)


  908. locumGP Says:

    Thanks Michael…

    Yes, I am SMC full reg. Enjoying being a full-time locum GP so far, flexible, no politics and good pay.


  909. :) Says:

    Hi…My MBChB is from the UK and postgrad degree Master of Emergency Medicine from Malaysia. What post can I apply for in Singapore and what is the salary like after tax…does anybody have any idea ?

    thanx :)


  910. Michael Says:

    Since you ticked the right boxes, I guess you can approach one of the agencies handling placement for Govt Hospitals, and seek

    They are best placed as the pay is pretty much standardised I understand


  911. Docnewbie Says:

    Anyone knows if NUS trained VS DUKE NUS trained and VS Imperial college train HOs… any diff in the starting pay?

    I wonder what’s the diff


  912. sgdoc Says:

    Aiyo
    the imperial not yet graduated so how to have starting salary?

    Duke is postgraduate so Duke should be paid more lah since they are older and more experienced


  913. photon Says:

    Interviewing for a consultant job in Singapore as a radiologist with 21 years of experience. Any ideas of what I should be asking for as salary? I am a USA based radiologist with a collapsing radiology market here. Monthly costs for a 1BR apartment ballpark? Thanks in advance.


  914. Michael Says:

    photon:

    asking pay ? 12K S$ upwards

    1BR ? no such thing in Singapore, though 2 bedroom Housing board units start at 1,900 onwards, and condos (with pool/gym/amenities etc) start from 4,000 onwards


  915. photon Says:

    Thanks Michael,

    I assume those costs and salary are per month? is that right?

    So the Least expensive housing is around 1900 per month?

    thanks again…


  916. Michael Says:

    yep, 1,900 S$ a month or so approx, plus or minus a couple of hundred .. (more on the plus side than minus side) can get you a 2 bedroom HDB unit .. (2 room, 1 with attached, 1 common toilet, or old type – two bedroom and 1 shower stall, 1 toilet)

    Add an hour or so for travel.

    If you want near to town, then it can go to 2,400 or so .. for same unit


  917. LocumGP Says:

    Actually, there are studio units or one bedder private condo units going for about $2500 a month for rental too.


  918. Specialist Says:

    Photon:

    We do have a lot of radiologists unless you are an interventional radiologist… So do not expect salary to be very competitive….

    but a typical consultant starts at about 12k on and senior consultant close to 20k… Again it really depends on how you fit in the hospital and their vacancy quota.


  919. Russian Dr. Says:

    I’m a Russian Dr. I have completed my basic medical graduation (M.D.physician) in Englsh medium from WHO authorised university of Russian Federation. Now I’m interested to work in Singapore. Is I’m eligible to work in in Singapore? Please guide me.


  920. Tj singh Says:

    I am doctor from india, did MBBS + Graduate certificate in palliative care from , Flinders university, Australia, also MSc in palliative care from Kings college London.
    Interested to work in Palliative medicine.
    As my knowledge my medical college donot exist in the list of eligible indian medical schools listed in SMC website.
    What are the chances to get the job there in singapore in palliative medicine?
    Thanks


  921. Michael Says:

    TJ Singh

    have you applied to any hospital here ?

    You can get in, but don’t expect sky high pay.


  922. Korean Says:

    My husband is a Korean General Surgeon and has been practising for less than a year. He had done fellowship for subspecialist too however his university was not listed in SMC, is it difficult to get the license then?

    Anyway about working environment in Korea, I can say, medical fee is cheap here because of national insurance. People can walk in to any specialist clinics with out of pocket consultation fee of USD 3 to 10 per visit. Therefore doctor have to face many patients per day. Like my husband he can meet 30 out patients, 2 colonoscopy, 10 endoscopy and 1 or 2 apendicities op etc. He also got night calls or weekend calls for apendicitis etc. But he is trying to reduce the night calls these days. I think is not easy being a doctor.
    Thanks.


  923. Wongwings Says:

    Hi, what’s the starting pay/pay scale for a medical registrar in Singapore?


  924. ICU doc Says:

    I have been asked to quote my expected salary for an ICU service registrar post.I have a post- graduate european diploma (EDIC) and a non-UK/US/NZ/AUS/MMed anesthesia post-graduate qualification(5 years course).Can anyone please advise?Thank you.


  925. Michael Says:

    ICO Doc: is it for a govt job ?

    whatever you quote, they already have a pay scale ..

    Not sure for registrar though – should be about 12,000


  926. ICU doc Says:

    Michael,

    Thank you for you response.Yes,gov job.Is the 12k inclusive of all critical allowances?


  927. Mlika Says:

    Is resident physician is junior in ranking compared to clinical associate? Which one is better? Clinical associate post or resident physician post? In rank, is the RP senior or junior to MO and registrar ? What is the salary of a RP?
    Thanks


  928. Michael Says:

    mlika:

    Clinical associate = MO / Foreign doctors who can’t get full registration

    For the rest, if you are in the medical line, you can figure out I guess

    I am not in the medical line, FYI


  929. Dr IM Says:

    As a US-certified IM assoc consultant, is Australia or Singapore better in terms of job prospects/take-home pay? Many thanks


  930. Dr IM Says:

    Anyone? Also, seeing as Singapore is such a small country, would the demand for doctors turn into a oversupply in a matter of time?


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